phillyboy7897 wrote: »

It's a good thing ball groupers playing a different game take the time to weigh in on class balance.

I think that's important.

For the integrity of the game or something...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUznoZ4uyro

Blackbrook wrote: »

themdogesbite wrote: »

Blackbrook wrote: »

bubblebuttboss wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=em46ajNfuTU


To put it into perspective:
Executioner: 11 hits from full health
Killers Blade: 11 hits from full health
Endless Fury: 14 hits from full health
Radiant Destruction: 6 ticks from full health.

I could sit here and pick apart your biased video, the fact that NO ONE weaved, the fact that other than blab the players you used had sub par stats, the fact that no one was buffed except blab, the fact that you had lower health vs blab, the fact that this video is the most biased video I've ever seen posted on here, the fact that you assume no one does any thing but hit the execute button in that phase, the fact that you're so butt hurt that Templars are competitive now that you went out of your way and made propaganda...

I mean you didn't even try.

Any good player will see what you did there, your sleight of hand skills need work.

The ignorance, the stupidity...I mean this video explains why I destroy "Bell-anything" whenever I see the player. The player does not understand even the most basic concepts of this game.


I just pray that zos has more brains than that video

Completely agree. Either...this person Jules (no idea who he is) is rather short-sighted (euphemism) or he has an agenda, which is far more likely and sadly brings up the question of integrity.
You see when people have an agenda, they're not trying to improve the game...just their class at the expense of everyone else. They like to frame their arguments in half-truths and out-of-context to make them seem legit.
It's actually disgusting, and unfortunately becoming all to common today that people will knowingly sacrifice their integrity for things to go their way.

I'm not quite sure a "magica dps templar" can claim that he has no agenda in a debate regarding balanceing arround a particular templar skill, sadly this brings up the question about integrity.

"You see when people have an agenda, they're not trying to improve the game...just their class at the expense of everyone else. They like to frame their arguments in half-truths and out-of-context to make them seem legit. It's actually disgusting, and unfortunately becoming all to common today that people will knowingly sacrifice their integrity for things to go their way."

You wrote the rest of my post for me, thanks bud.

Not at all. You're the perfect example of my earlier observation about people's integrity.
You just accused me of being biased and having an agenda, I can only guess in the hopes that people will dismiss my observations.
All I did was point just how limited and probably intentionally out-of-context Jules video was. I've made no arguments about Radiant Destruction. Argue all you want....BUT...make it valid and not some sad half-assed argument that's sole purpose is to sway those who don't have enough experience to think for themselves.

No, thank YOU, bud. You just let everyone know the type of person you are.

Alcast wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=em46ajNfuTU


To put it into perspective:
Executioner: 11 hits from full health
Killers Blade: 11 hits from full health
Endless Fury: 14 hits from full health
Radiant Destruction: 6 ticks from full health.

It scales differently. Jbeam has 2 execute mechanics. The lower health the more damage, and the more magicka the user has the more damage.

Were all of those buffed with Weap/Spelldmg buff or only the RD one? Also...RD is interruptable, others are not.

olsborg wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=em46ajNfuTU


To put it into perspective:
Executioner: 11 hits from full health
Killers Blade: 11 hits from full health
Endless Fury: 14 hits from full health
Radiant Destruction: 6 ticks from full health.

It scales differently. Jbeam has 2 execute mechanics. The lower health the more damage, and the more magicka the user has the more damage.

Were all of those buffed with Weap/Spelldmg buff or only the RD one? Also...RD is interruptable, others are not.

Interruptable basicly only in melee. All other executes are blockable and dodgeable.

phillyboy7897 wrote: »

Ok I'm gonna chill out. Not a fan of ball groupers and I don't want to be a prick. I am sorry if I have been already.

I have heard a lot of horrible things about ball groups and the gamepplay in the videos looks awful.

What I'm saying to these posts is you are asking for nerfs on the wrong class right now and they will be zerged down and die.

Stamblades oneshotting everything in sight and 3 shotting ppl with a 12m pbaoe for 6+ months. Now templars getting some kills for a week with a channel that is a 70% self snare and it's NERRFF.

Doesn't make sense I disagree with it on a basical level, and I stand with my temp brotha and sistas

Blackbrook wrote: »

themdogesbite wrote: »

Blackbrook wrote: »

themdogesbite wrote: »

Blackbrook wrote: »

bubblebuttboss wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=em46ajNfuTU


To put it into perspective:
Executioner: 11 hits from full health
Killers Blade: 11 hits from full health
Endless Fury: 14 hits from full health
Radiant Destruction: 6 ticks from full health.

I could sit here and pick apart your biased video, the fact that NO ONE weaved, the fact that other than blab the players you used had sub par stats, the fact that no one was buffed except blab, the fact that you had lower health vs blab, the fact that this video is the most biased video I've ever seen posted on here, the fact that you assume no one does any thing but hit the execute button in that phase, the fact that you're so butt hurt that Templars are competitive now that you went out of your way and made propaganda...

I mean you didn't even try.

Any good player will see what you did there, your sleight of hand skills need work.

The ignorance, the stupidity...I mean this video explains why I destroy "Bell-anything" whenever I see the player. The player does not understand even the most basic concepts of this game.


I just pray that zos has more brains than that video

Completely agree. Either...this person Jules (no idea who he is) is rather short-sighted (euphemism) or he has an agenda, which is far more likely and sadly brings up the question of integrity.
You see when people have an agenda, they're not trying to improve the game...just their class at the expense of everyone else. They like to frame their arguments in half-truths and out-of-context to make them seem legit.
It's actually disgusting, and unfortunately becoming all to common today that people will knowingly sacrifice their integrity for things to go their way.

I'm not quite sure a "magica dps templar" can claim that he has no agenda in a debate regarding balanceing arround a particular templar skill, sadly this brings up the question about integrity.

"You see when people have an agenda, they're not trying to improve the game...just their class at the expense of everyone else. They like to frame their arguments in half-truths and out-of-context to make them seem legit. It's actually disgusting, and unfortunately becoming all to common today that people will knowingly sacrifice their integrity for things to go their way."

You wrote the rest of my post for me, thanks bud.

Not at all. You're the perfect example of my earlier observation about people's integrity.
You just accused me of being biased and having an agenda, I can only guess in the hopes that people will dismiss my observations.
All I did was point just how limited and probably intentionally out-of-context Jules video was. I've made no arguments about Radiant Destruction. Argue all you want....BUT...make it valid and not some sad half-assed argument that's sole purpose is to sway those who don't have enough experience to think for themselves.

No, thank YOU, bud. You just let everyone know the type of person you are.

I haven't made any arguments about the skill in question either, i'm just pointing out that someone that plays magica templar probably isn't unbiased. Just like i'm not unbiased regarding many discussions about DKs.

Oh, and thanks for pointing out what a nice guy i am! Thats the kind of person i am.

I guess you're just trolling?

First, there's a difference between being biased and having an agenda.
We all have biases. However, people with an agenda, don't care about right or wrong, the big picture etc...all they care about is getting their way i.e. their agenda. They will try to obscure, bend, warp peoples perceptions to meet their agenda.

I made no claims or arguments about Radiant Destruction, for or against. All I did was point out how silly Jules video was due to its lack of context, for example the lack of weaving of attacks and stationary nature of RD. He didn't mention a thing.

Then, you, as you can see above, told me that I have an agenda since I play a templar and that somehow my integrity is comprised because I thought the video was invalid.
By your logic...every class thread is a waste of time because everyone is willing to be dishonest and tell half-truths to get their class buffed. Maybe you think that way because you are that way...but not everyone is.

Again, thank YOU, bud.

Blackbrook wrote: »

Completely agree. Either...this person Jules (no idea who he is) is rather short-sighted (euphemism) or he has an agenda, which is far more likely and sadly brings up the question of integrity.

Jules wrote: »

5. I am not angry that Templars are competitive. I want all classes to be competitive. In fact I have a v16 magicka Templar that I enjoy playing. I simply think the skill is overpeforming and many Templars share in this belief if they are not trying to blindly protect their precious skill.

I specifically remember discussing Templar healing with @FENGRUSH once on the podcast. He was in favor of nerfing Templar healing, and I was countering with the fact that Templars are defined by their heals, and to nerf their heals means to need to increase their damage to be on par with other classes.

All that matters to me is a discussion is held and that we as a community can discuss the validity of this skill as it works now.

Zheg wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

I simply think the skill is overpeforming and many Templars share in this belief if they are not trying to blindly protect their precious skill.
...
I am content in the fact that though we may disagree about this particular skill, I would never assume the same of you. ... All that matters to me is a discussion is held and that we as a community can discuss the validity of this skill as it works now.

"Blindly protect their precious skill"? So if we disagree with your opinion, that automatically means we're wrong and are completely incapable of objectively looking at one of our skills eh? You actually have the balls to follow that with some bogus statement about agreeing to disagree and caring about actual discussion and balance? Yeah, ok

Just because a few templars agree with you, that does not make you right, nor them. I can find a few people to agree with me on pretty much any topic. This isn't templars trying to keep something OP, this is templars being able to shoot down dumb nerf threads that don't have a strong position to stand on other than their own personal opinion. Your initial post is highly misleading if your only goal is to prove that it over-performs at high health, and whether or not you care to admit it is, most in here see it as intentional. Furthermore you actually have the gall to claim to want balance but then in the same thread post a pic of your NB with obscenely unbalanced stats? No one is buying the BS, nor hypocrisy.

Your arguments have been weak because your position is weak, and it's not lost on any of us why you aren't responding to posts that make what you're saying look ridiculous like Joy's. I'm going to just leave this here for you again:

Joy_Division wrote: »

Why does this video not weave attacks in for the instant-cast execute skills? It is intentionally taking a key weakness of Radiant Destruction - it's inability to weave -and placing it on other skills that do not have this weakness.

Why do people keep screaming "it's an execute" without considering the possibility that ZoS intended it to also do mediocre to OKish DPS outside it's execute range? I'd say it's more than a possibility since ZoS published the skill a year ago, has heard this complaint for a year, and have just confirmed in another thread that the skill is working as intended. Yes, it is an execute. But maybe it was intended to be something more.

All the good Templar DPS skills are notoriously difficult to actually put on a target actively defending itself. Maybe ZoS intended this to be an "easy" option to get mediocre-Okish DPS. Or, perhaps more likely, since Templars a re considered the "healer" and likely will only have 1 DPS skill on their bar, this is the perfect thing for them: mediocre DPS but with the ability to actually contribute during an execute phase. The skill helps healers a lot to actually contribute DPS to a team. Maybe ZoS recognized that it's channeled nature puts the caster in an extremely vulnerable position so figured their should be some payoff for taking that risk. There are plausible reasons why the DPS outside the execute range is OKish. As for why the other executes don;t share this, why would they? A NB decision to use all their skill is instantaneous...why would they pass over the instant-cast surprise attack for an instant cast Killer's Blade that does less damage? It would be utterly pointless. since a tempalr's decision is not instantaneous - indeed they are locked into a 3 second channel - it's much more ambiguous and thus another reason why the "execute" is different.

None of this is going to convince the people who hate the spell otherwise. I stopped caring at this point. They only care that their uninterruptible wrecking blows stay uninterruptible, their 10K pre-cast hardened wards stay 10K, their unblockable AoE fears that still screw you over after the spell ends stay unblockable. I think all the sh*t they do "overperforms" so I glad they think mine does too. Keep posting those screenshots comparing a 3 second - 7 tick spell with instant-cast DPS skills without even accounting for the free weave you get from using those instant-casts. Keep deriding all those so called "casuals" and "baddies" for coming onto these forums and crying for nerfs. I get it: they are just too dumb to clearly see that your OP crap is a L2P issue but this skill is somehow different and needs immediate attention and a justified nerf.

On a side note, looks like quite a lot of people have those 'hate b3ners' for you eh Jules? My first post was tepid compared to some of these; doesn't really look like you're winning over hearts and minds here, but then again, to be able to do that, you need to actually have a strong argument. Ready to have your mind blown? Maybe you're wrong.

Jules wrote: »

You can call me stupid or ignorant; I am content in the fact that though we may disagree about this particular skill, I would never assume the same of you. You can tell me you wreck me in pvp or whatever other angsty teenage insult because you feel ballsy sitting behind a computer screen. These things do not matter to me. All that matters to me is a discussion is held and that we as a community can discuss the validity of this skill as it works now.

I simply think the skill is overpeforming and many Templars share in this belief if they are not trying to blindly protect their precious skill.

Jules wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

I simply think the skill is overpeforming and many Templars share in this belief if they are not trying to blindly protect their precious skill.
...
I am content in the fact that though we may disagree about this particular skill, I would never assume the same of you. ... All that matters to me is a discussion is held and that we as a community can discuss the validity of this skill as it works now.

"Blindly protect their precious skill"? So if we disagree with your opinion, that automatically means we're wrong and are completely incapable of objectively looking at one of our skills eh? You actually have the balls to follow that with some bogus statement about agreeing to disagree and caring about actual discussion and balance? Yeah, ok . And you actually have the gall to claim to want balance but then in the same thread post a pic of your NB with obscenely unbalanced stats? No one is buying the BS, nor hypocrisy.

Just because a few templars agree with you, that does not make you right, nor them. I can find a few people to agree with me on pretty much any topic. This isn't templars trying to keep something OP, this is templars being able to shoot down dumb nerf threads that don't have a strong position to stand on other than their own personal opinion. Your initial post is highly misleading if your only goal is to prove that it over-performs at high health, and whether or not you care to admit it is, most in here see it as intentional.

Your arguments have been weak because your position is weak, and it's not lost on any of us why you aren't responding to posts that make what you're saying look ridiculous like Joy's. I'm going to just leave this here for you again:

On a side note, looks like quite a lot of people have those 'hate b3ners' for you eh Jules? My first post was tepid compared to some of these; doesn't really look like you're winning over hearts and minds here, but then again, to be able to do that, you need to actually have a strong argument. Ready to have your mind blown? Maybe you're wrong.

I understand that you relish in people disagreeing with me because your personal vendetta is all but your main objective. While I find that amusing, that aside, I think the original post is pretty clear in its statement of "this overperforms at high health" when Blab's RD kills me from max health faster than any other execute examined.

As I have already stated in this thread:

Jules wrote: »

You are right, the testing process is inconsistent and a true test would involve much more involved data and theorycrafting of builds to equalize the attackers executes.
...
I am not stupid and I recognize that this test does not have these things and thus cannot be valued as a baseline or be a catalyst for immediate change.

However, I think the video does raise a need for further analysis. It's important to still assess WHY and not just accept everything at face value. WHY does the RD do so much more damage to me? I have ~18k spell resist but only ~9k physical resist. I have equal 60/60 Hardy/Elemental Defender. Is Blab just that OP or is there something else worth looking at here? It is true that RD has counters to it that other executes do not, and that is worth considering. But is it really that outrageous to believe that the skill is overperforming at high health? Was the max magicka aspect of this skill considered to adapt to 40k max magicka or was it envisioned for the 26-30k of 1.6?

As far as the nb stats, they are in fact admittedly OP, despite them being fully buffed with continuous attack and lich proc. It is impossible to get anything close to that on any other magicka toon I have. I think that NB passives are the strongest in the game and either need to be brought in line with other classes, or have other classes be brought up to their level.

And Zheg. We do not like each other and that is well known and I have accepted that for a long time. However I think you should really look at your tendency to automatically insult rather than base your responses off of the subject at hand. Even respect can be had amongst enemies.