Jesus Beam vs. Other Executes

  • Blackbrook
    Blackbrook
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    I'm a DPS Magicka Templar and I PVP alot. I'm decent, though nothing special.

    I've had numerous templars use RD on me to little effect because they tend to spam it when I'm at full health.
    I, rightly so, do very much feel it when I'm very low health.

    I think this is a big issue mainly to due to whiners like the OP, who can no longer roll dodge etc...
    People who were accustomed to getting away are now dying in droves.
    This is the collective cry (whine) you hear these days.
    It is expected....and will be ignored by ZOS.

    The OP's argument is weak. Instead of trying to be objective, the OP has presented a very BIASED and subjective argument.
    Even if there were some manner of validity to be found at the core of his argument, the obvious bias in his presentation leads it to be dismissed.

    And btw...I rarely use RD unless someone is at low-health or as someone has mentioned the many times when topping charge doesn't work. It is simply too risky to be that stationary and interruptible in group pvp. Further, magicka templars in general do not benefit much from the light and heavy attacks that are weaved into stamina attack rotations. Those three seconds of standing there channeling are equivalent to 9 attacks or more for some stamina users.




  • Cinbri
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    Enjoy, healbots transformed into beambots. Thats just show what is wrong with pvp.
  • Fyaal
    Fyaal
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    I clearly contributed greatly to this video.
    Fyaal - EP Stam DK Grand Overlord
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  • Sugaroverdose
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    I mean a Bolt of Lighting travels at the speed of light 186,000 miles per second
    No it's not.
  • Mojmir
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    I mean a Bolt of Lighting travels at the speed of light 186,000 miles per second
    No it's not.

    yea im gonna need to see a video of your data, plus I need you to compare it to other forms of natural execution like tornados,volcanos, and tidal waves.
  • Lexxypwns
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    I find it interesting that OP hasn't bothered to respond to any of the posts questioning the inconsistencies in the "testing" process...
  • Minno
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    Mojmir wrote: »
    I mean a Bolt of Lighting travels at the speed of light 186,000 miles per second
    No it's not.

    yea im gonna need to see a video of your data, plus I need you to compare it to other forms of natural execution like tornados,volcanos, and tidal waves.

    Toxic.
    Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
    - Guild-lead for MV
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  • Enraged_Tiki_Torch
    Enraged_Tiki_Torch
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    Shelgon wrote: »

    ??? Executioner starts at 50% as well, and ive never hit an 11k one on someone at 40%

    I always thought Executioner was confusing because it has 2 different execute modifiers. Never seemed to do much damage until around 30%. I figured that was where the execute bonus started...

    11k at 40% doesn't happen in this video. At 40% she gets hit for 7.1k crit, which knocks her down to 5% health. Then she gets hit for 19.2k. All other hits before that were 3.8k on a crit except one that wasn't a crit but video was blurry. I think it was 3.2k.

    The 19.2k at 5% is irrelevant but if that Templar only used the ability when she was at 40% health. The death cap would read it as doing a 26.3k Radiant Oppression which is what is confusing some people. It doesn't do that much damage at 40% health in 1 tick.

    Adamantly a very powerful ability but all classes have at least 1, some more.

    My solution to Champion Point System here
  • technohic
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    Cinbri wrote: »
    Enjoy, healbots transformed into beambots. Thats just show what is wrong with pvp.

    Can't say us Templars didn't try as they buffed some of the already best Templar abilities when nerfing BOL and ignoring or failing at things that actually were needed.
  • Mojmir
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    Lexxypwns wrote: »
    I find it interesting that OP hasn't bothered to respond to any of the posts questioning the inconsistencies in the "testing" process...

    I agree,although i respect Jules,I've found a lot of here posts
    Minno wrote: »
    Mojmir wrote: »
    I mean a Bolt of Lighting travels at the speed of light 186,000 miles per second
    No it's not.

    yea im gonna need to see a video of your data, plus I need you to compare it to other forms of natural execution like tornados,volcanos, and tidal waves.

    Toxic.

    so was the video,incitement really
  • AfkNinja
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    I'd love to see how hard Blab could hit Jules with Dark Flare for comparison dmg.


    Dark Flare from stealth -> Radiant = gg?
    Edited by AfkNinja on March 15, 2016 10:37PM
  • rokrdt05
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    AfkNinja wrote: »
    I'd love to see how hard Blab could hit Jules with Dark Flare for comparison dmg.


    Dark Flare from stealth -> Radiant = gg?

    If I remember correctly, NB's are the only ones who get bonus damage from stealth as magicka players. Stamina users (of any class) all get bonus damage from stealth with magicka players becoming "detected" before the ability can be done (aside from magicka NB's).

    Though someone correct me if they have changed this.
    Edited by rokrdt05 on March 15, 2016 11:26PM
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  • Mojmir
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    id actually like to see this in context to a real combat situation, animation canceling and all with the other executes. no one in there right mind would spam these running solo. standing in one spot and letting someone burn you down is irrelevant. i get the idea your going for, but its not how it goes on the battlefield.
  • Psilent
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    Those who are complaining; do you not wear any Impen? Tonight on Trueflame I had several instances where I was at 30% or below health with a Radiant Oppression beam hitting me. I survived by using igneous shield and getting a heal from a group mate or a vigor heal.

    The one time I did die to 3 Radiant Oppression beams on me while at sub 20% health it was: 4.3k damage, 2.4k damage and 1.3k damage. 3 different people hit me with it; I am a Nord with 7 to 8 pieces of impen.
  •  Jules
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    Lexxypwns wrote: »
    I find it interesting that OP hasn't bothered to respond to any of the posts questioning the inconsistencies in the "testing" process...

    You are right, the testing process is inconsistent and a true test would involve much more involved data and theorycrafting of builds to equalize the attackers executes. What I can say, is that that would be incredibly difficult to articulate as you would have to have equal champion point damage mitigation, (which I did, 60/60) as well as equalize the max stam/magicka pools on all attackers, and their spell or weapon damage. You would also have to negate any racial or skill passives that may passively give damage increases. All attackers would have to have equalized champion point damage passives. All skills would have to properly scale off of the max resource/damage (killers blade is an issue in this sense). I would also have to change my gear in order to achieve equalized spell and physical resist or entirely take it off to baseline them both at zero.

    I am not stupid and I recognize that this test does not have these things and thus cannot be valued as a baseline or be a catalyst for immediate change. The purpose of the video is not to be a hard theorycrafted video but more a trolly visual representation of what many players encounter on a daily basis in Cyrodiil.

    Truth be told, if you are being honest with yourself, the test is actually more representative of the true population as I simply gathered whoever I could find that was willing to execute me to death and record it. In Cyrodiil, peoples builds are not equalized. They are not cookie cutter and they do not come with perfect numbers to make for easy testing. So take it at as you will, you can agree or disagree with it. You can test further and we can crunch numbers. I would be happy to assist anyone who is interested in doing that in a contained, perfect environment with equalized attackers and resistances.


    I have not yet responded until now due to the sheer overwhelming info contained in these pages and the inability to have a job/life/play eso/eat tacos/sleep. I am only sorting through them now and responding.
    Edited by Jules on March 16, 2016 8:43AM
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  • AfkNinja
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    rokrdt05 wrote: »
    AfkNinja wrote: »
    I'd love to see how hard Blab could hit Jules with Dark Flare for comparison dmg.


    Dark Flare from stealth -> Radiant = gg?

    If I remember correctly, NB's are the only ones who get bonus damage from stealth as magicka players. Stamina users (of any class) all get bonus damage from stealth with magicka players becoming "detected" before the ability can be done (aside from magicka NB's).

    Though someone correct me if they have changed this.

    It won't add stealth dmg, I was saying DF from stealth because one of the only ways to ensure it lands is use it on an unaware foe. Otherwise it's getting reflected into the Templar's face.
  • phillyboy7897
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    Welcome to making a thread asking for Templar nerfs we got a 85 page thread freaking the :&(4 out in the other category. Did u not realize that 3,&:$ was going on?

    U have opened up pandoras box. May god have mercy on your soul.
  • phillyboy7897
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    # devs don't look at a single one of my skills cause they are getting broke AF
  • Twing
    Twing
    Seems that those against the Radiant don't want the nuisance and they are perfectly ok that the Templar keep the annoyance of the skill when using.

    The value of its annoyance to use, in my view, is on par with the nuisance it provides to all y'all being hit with it.
    Play their annoyance to your advantage.
    Y'all want challenges, but don't exactly want to tackle it.
  • timidobserver
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    Psilent wrote: »
    Those who are complaining; do you not wear any Impen? Tonight on Trueflame I had several instances where I was at 30% or below health with a Radiant Oppression beam hitting me. I survived by using igneous shield and getting a heal from a group mate or a vigor heal.

    The one time I did die to 3 Radiant Oppression beams on me while at sub 20% health it was: 4.3k damage, 2.4k damage and 1.3k damage. 3 different people hit me with it; I am a Nord with 7 to 8 pieces of impen.

    You are doing it wrong. You should be able afk facetank a geared out full 100% magicka radiant oppression while stacking nearly 47k magicka, 4k+ recovery, nearly 3600 spell damage, ignoring your spell resistance, and ignoring your critical resistance.
    Edited by timidobserver on March 16, 2016 2:21PM
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  • AfkNinja
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    Counter video posted by @Mr_Nobody - Magicka Templar. Completely owns a person who uses RD on him at 50%~ hp around the 4:20 second mark. This is what I am seeing, as long as I notice the Templar channeling I have plenty of time to stop him/her. Clearly having 2 deathbeams on you will be harder however.

    http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/253593/nobody-magicka-templar-pvp-2#latest
    Edited by AfkNinja on March 16, 2016 3:58PM
  • Bfish22090
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    imagine the damage it will do when templars are standing in their own house with damage buffs
  • Mumyo
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    Jules wrote: »
    Lexxypwns wrote: »
    I find it interesting that OP hasn't bothered to respond to any of the posts questioning the inconsistencies in the "testing" process...

    You are right, the testing process is inconsistent and a true test would involve much more involved data and theorycrafting of builds to equalize the attackers executes. What I can say, is that that would be incredibly difficult to articulate as you would have to have equal champion point damage mitigation, (which I did, 60/60) as well as equalize the max stam/magicka pools on all attackers, and their spell or weapon damage. You would also have to negate any racial or skill passives that may passively give damage increases. All attackers would have to have equalized champion point damage passives. All skills would have to properly scale off of the max resource/damage (killers blade is an issue in this sense). I would also have to change my gear in order to achieve equalized spell and physical resist or entirely take it off to baseline them both at zero.

    I am not stupid and I recognize that this test does not have these things and thus cannot be valued as a baseline or be a catalyst for immediate change. The purpose of the video is not to be a hard theorycrafted video but more a trolly visual representation of what many players encounter on a daily basis in Cyrodiil.

    Truth be told, if you are being honest with yourself, the test is actually more representative of the true population as I simply gathered whoever I could find that was willing to execute me to death and record it. In Cyrodiil, peoples builds are not equalized. They are not cookie cutter and they do not come with perfect numbers to make for easy testing. So take it at as you will, you can agree or disagree with it. You can test further and we can crunch numbers. I would be happy to assist anyone who is interested in doing that in a contained, perfect environment with equalized attackers and resistances.


    I have not yet responded until now due to the sheer overwhelming info contained in these pages and the inability to have a job/life/play eso/eat tacos/sleep. I am only sorting through them now and responding.

    involving no impen and no light attack weaving, seem pretty much like u live in a different cyrodil than anyone else.
  • bubblebuttboss
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    Jules wrote: »
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=em46ajNfuTU


    To put it into perspective:
    Executioner: 11 hits from full health
    Killers Blade: 11 hits from full health
    Endless Fury: 14 hits from full health
    Radiant Destruction: 6 ticks from full health.


    I could sit here and pick apart your biased video, the fact that NO ONE weaved, the fact that other than blab the players you used had sub par stats, the fact that no one was buffed except blab, the fact that you had lower health vs blab, the fact that this video is the most biased video I've ever seen posted on here, the fact that you assume no one does any thing but hit the execute button in that phase, the fact that you're so butt hurt that Templars are competitive now that you went out of your way and made propaganda...

    I mean you didn't even try.

    Any good player will see what you did there, your sleight of hand skills need work.

    The ignorance, the stupidity...I mean this video explains why I destroy "Bell-anything" whenever I see the player. The player does not understand even the most basic concepts of this game.


    I just pray that zos has more brains than that video
    Edited by bubblebuttboss on March 17, 2016 1:18AM
  • Blackbrook
    Blackbrook
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    Jules wrote: »
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=em46ajNfuTU


    To put it into perspective:
    Executioner: 11 hits from full health
    Killers Blade: 11 hits from full health
    Endless Fury: 14 hits from full health
    Radiant Destruction: 6 ticks from full health.


    I could sit here and pick apart your biased video, the fact that NO ONE weaved, the fact that other than blab the players you used had sub par stats, the fact that no one was buffed except blab, the fact that you had lower health vs blab, the fact that this video is the most biased video I've ever seen posted on here, the fact that you assume no one does any thing but hit the execute button in that phase, the fact that you're so butt hurt that Templars are competitive now that you went out of your way and made propaganda...

    I mean you didn't even try.

    Any good player will see what you did there, your sleight of hand skills need work.

    The ignorance, the stupidity...I mean this video explains why I destroy "Bell-anything" whenever I see the player. The player does not understand even the most basic concepts of this game.


    I just pray that zos has more brains than that video

    Completely agree. Either...this person Jules (no idea who he is) is rather short-sighted (euphemism) or he has an agenda, which is far more likely and sadly brings up the question of integrity.
    You see when people have an agenda, they're not trying to improve the game...just their class at the expense of everyone else. They like to frame their arguments in half-truths and out-of-context to make them seem legit.
    It's actually disgusting, and unfortunately becoming all to common today that people will knowingly sacrifice their integrity for things to go their way.
  • Destyran
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    Templars are already nerfed to the ground its our turn to be op for once. Gtfo
  • FeaR Turbo
    FeaR Turbo
    Class Representative
    Why does this video not weave attacks in for the instant-cast execute skills? It is intentionally taking a key weakness of Radiant Destruction - it's inability to weave -and placing it on other skills that do not have this weakness.

    Why do people keep screaming "it's an execute" without considering the possibility that ZoS intended it to also do mediocre to OKish DPS outside it's execute range? I'd say it's more than a possibility since ZoS published the skill a year ago, has heard this complaint for a year, and have just confirmed in another thread that the skill is working as intended. Yes, it is an execute. But maybe it was intended to be something more.

    All the good Templar DPS skills are notoriously difficult to actually put on a target actively defending itself. Maybe ZoS intended this to be an "easy" option to get mediocre-Okish DPS. Or, perhaps more likely, since Templars a re considered the "healer" and likely will only have 1 DPS skill on their bar, this is the perfect thing for them: mediocre DPS but with the ability to actually contribute during an execute phase. The skill helps healers a lot to actually contribute DPS to a team. Maybe ZoS recognized that it's channeled nature puts the caster in an extremely vulnerable position so figured their should be some payoff for taking that risk. There are plausible reasons why the DPS outside the execute range is OKish. As for why the other executes don;t share this, why would they? A NB decision to use all their skill is instantaneous...why would they pass over the instant-cast surprise attack for an instant cast Killer's Blade that does less damage? It would be utterly pointless. since a tempalr's decision is not instantaneous - indeed they are locked into a 3 second channel - it's much more ambiguous and thus another reason why the "execute" is different.

    None of this is going to convince the people who hate the spell otherwise. I stopped caring at this point. They only care that their uninterruptible wrecking blows stay uninterruptible, their 10K pre-cast hardened wards stay 10K, their unblockable AoE fears that still screw you over after the spell ends stay unblockable. I think all the sh*t they do "overperforms" so I glad they think mine does too. Keep posting those screenshots comparing a 3 second - 7 tick spell with instant-cast DPS skills without even accounting for the free weave you get from using those instant-casts. Keep deriding all those so called "casuals" and "baddies" for coming onto these forums and crying for nerfs. I get it: they are just too dumb to clearly see that your OP crap is a L2P issue but this skill is somehow different and needs immediate attention and a justified nerf.

    ily bro.
  • themdogesbite
    themdogesbite
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    Blackbrook wrote: »
    Jules wrote: »
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=em46ajNfuTU


    To put it into perspective:
    Executioner: 11 hits from full health
    Killers Blade: 11 hits from full health
    Endless Fury: 14 hits from full health
    Radiant Destruction: 6 ticks from full health.


    I could sit here and pick apart your biased video, the fact that NO ONE weaved, the fact that other than blab the players you used had sub par stats, the fact that no one was buffed except blab, the fact that you had lower health vs blab, the fact that this video is the most biased video I've ever seen posted on here, the fact that you assume no one does any thing but hit the execute button in that phase, the fact that you're so butt hurt that Templars are competitive now that you went out of your way and made propaganda...

    I mean you didn't even try.

    Any good player will see what you did there, your sleight of hand skills need work.

    The ignorance, the stupidity...I mean this video explains why I destroy "Bell-anything" whenever I see the player. The player does not understand even the most basic concepts of this game.


    I just pray that zos has more brains than that video

    Completely agree. Either...this person Jules (no idea who he is) is rather short-sighted (euphemism) or he has an agenda, which is far more likely and sadly brings up the question of integrity.
    You see when people have an agenda, they're not trying to improve the game...just their class at the expense of everyone else. They like to frame their arguments in half-truths and out-of-context to make them seem legit.
    It's actually disgusting, and unfortunately becoming all to common today that people will knowingly sacrifice their integrity for things to go their way.

    I'm not quite sure a "magica dps templar" can claim that he has no agenda in a debate regarding balanceing arround a particular templar skill, sadly this brings up the question about integrity.

    "You see when people have an agenda, they're not trying to improve the game...just their class at the expense of everyone else. They like to frame their arguments in half-truths and out-of-context to make them seem legit. It's actually disgusting, and unfortunately becoming all to common today that people will knowingly sacrifice their integrity for things to go their way."

    You wrote the rest of my post for me, thanks bud.

    :]
  • Sythen88411
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    Jesus Beam > Wrecking Blow
  • phillyboy7897
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    How's stacking on crown in bdo going baby?
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