Jesus Beam vs. Other Executes

Jules · March 2016

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=em46ajNfuTU

To put it into perspective:
Executioner: 11 hits from full health
Killers Blade: 11 hits from full health
Endless Fury: 14 hits from full health
Radiant Destruction: 6 ticks from full health.

Elong · March 2016

Unfair comparison, Blaba used Entropy to get Empowerment first.

Parafrost · March 2016

Elong wrote: »

Unfair comparison, Blaba used Entropy to get Empowerment first.

Okay lets discount the rally and the spell damage potion the sorc used.

Jules · March 2016

Elong wrote: »

Unfair comparison, Blaba used Entropy to get Empowerment first.

You can't empower RD, it's a dot. That was for spell damage buff only.

Alcast · March 2016

Jules wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=em46ajNfuTU

To put it into perspective:
Executioner: 11 hits from full health
Killers Blade: 11 hits from full health
Endless Fury: 14 hits from full health
Radiant Destruction: 6 ticks from full health.

It scales differently. Jbeam has 2 execute mechanics. The lower health the more damage, and the more magicka the user has the more damage.

Were all of those buffed with Weap/Spelldmg buff or only the RD one? Also...RD is interruptable, others are not.

PrinceFabious · March 2016

This is very situational because there are many different types of builds/cp/attribute points/food drink/types of armor/armor traits/ and counters.

Parafrost · March 2016

Jules wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

Unfair comparison, Blaba used Entropy to get Empowerment first.

You can't empower RD, it's a dot. That was for spell damage buff only.

Now i didn't know that o.o. Thought he used entropy to empower it xD.. learn something new everyday.

leepalmer95 · March 2016

Did they all have the exact same stats?

Blab did have major sorcery, also Jesus beam does always crit the first tick.

Etaniel · March 2016

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Did they all have the exact same stats?

Blab did have major sorcery, also Jesus beam does always crit the first tick.

Stop trying to be picky and accept the obvious please

Elong · March 2016

Jules wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

Unfair comparison, Blaba used Entropy to get Empowerment first.

You can't empower RD, it's a dot. That was for spell damage buff only.

Please don't zerg my troll.

#MakeTemplarsGreatAgain

HoloYoitsu · March 2016

Leandor · March 2016

Why are people trying to deflect the issue? Please fix charge, add some mobility and tone down j-beam - make templar a fun class instead of giving them one channeled ability that is highly frustrating (for opponents) at times and useless at other times.

Derra · March 2016

None are interruptable but cheesus beam.

Parafrost · March 2016

Derra wrote: »

None are interruptable but cheesus beam.

How about make RD a non-channeled ability and make it do the same damage as executioner? That seems fitting tbh.

timidobserver · March 2016

I would be curious to know the gear, cp, and general stats of each character used in this video as well as that of the target.

strikeback1247 · March 2016

Seems like some people haven't found jesus yet. Y'all mothertruckers need jeebus (beams)!

leepalmer95 · March 2016

Etaniel wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Did they all have the exact same stats?

Blab did have major sorcery, also Jesus beam does always crit the first tick.

Stop trying to be picky and accept the obvious please

Oh i know it's stronger, but i want to see a fair estimate on how much stronger before zos see this post and nerf it into uselessness, because they will, they've never played a templar.

Zheg · March 2016

When Jules gets class changes she likes, it becomes a hype thread. When other classes get bug fixes she doesn't like, it becomes a nerf thread.

To put it into perspective:
Almost all of the executes you listed don't suffer from the same counters that jesus beam does. Can you interrupt or bash executioner, killer's blade, or mage's wrath? Do executioner, killer's blade, or mage's wrath give you a 3+ second long channel that telegraphs exactly what's hitting you and from what direction? No, and no. Can you cast other skills in addition to executioner, killer's blade, or mage's wrath in the 3+ seconds it takes for one jesus beam to go off and therefore do more base dps? Yes. There are pros and cons to each execute. There wasn't even a buff to the damage of jesus beam this patch, it was just a bug fix to make it so you couldn't dodge the damage you weren't supposed to be able to dodge.

Not even going to bother watching your video, but I'd also assume that you're using the same character, gear, and CP points to test differences between physical and magical executes - because that's obviously a well structured test.

Parafrost · March 2016

Zheg wrote: »

When Jules gets class changes she likes, it becomes a hype thread. When other classes get bug fixes she doesn't like, it becomes a nerf thread.

To put it into perspective:
Almost all of the executes you listed don't suffer from the same counters that jesus beam does. Can you interrupt or bash executioner, killer's blade, or mage's wrath? Do executioner, killer's blade, or mage's wrath give you a 3+ second long channel that telegraphs exactly what's hitting you and from what direction? No, and no. Can you cast other skills in addition to executioner, killer's blade, or mage's wrath in the 3+ seconds it takes for one jesus beam to go off and therefore do more base dps? Yes. There are pros and cons to each execute. There wasn't even a buff to the damage of jesus beam this patch, it was just a bug fix to make it so you couldn't dodge the damage you weren't supposed to be able to dodge.

Not even going to bother watching your video, but I'd also assume that you're using the same character, gear, and CP points to test differences between physical and magical executes - because that's obviously a well structured test.

Never knew i could dodge Radiant Destruction. Guess i shoulda roll dodged til i was out of stamina and die from other ppl. FeelsGoodMan. To assume is to make an ass out of you and me but in this regard you are making an ass out of yourself. You are given proof yet you still deny/dont want to watch it because you know it is true.

Mumyo · March 2016

Jules wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

Unfair comparison, Blaba used Entropy to get Empowerment first.

You can't empower RD, it's a dot. That was for spell damage buff only.

Well first of all tis a stupid ability and it is whether op or up.

U also shouldn't forget that its bashable, purgeable and cloakable, also interruptable via venom arrow or shock. U also dont have any protection using it, so when someone is on u and u channel like that, u are dead. No other ability takes those risks.

I am annoyed by the abuility but dont u need a certain cp set to reach that numbers? the future of pvp anyway is in the no cp campaigns since they dont lag even half as much as trueflame. RD doesn't hurt there.

U maybe can put ur effort into proxdet issues... that needs way more attention, there is a reason every magbuild is using it.

And you should show stats of everyone using his executioner... that is very important for precise testing.

Isn't killers blade magic dmg? If thats the case, a mag nb would have been better for this going for the magmorph.

But again, RD is whether overpowered or underpowered.

Maybe a reduction in the tickspeed would be a solution.

Parafrost · March 2016

Mumyo wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

Unfair comparison, Blaba used Entropy to get Empowerment first.

You can't empower RD, it's a dot. That was for spell damage buff only.

Well first of all tis a stupid ability and it is whether op or up.

U also shouldn't forget that its bashable, purgeable and cloakable, also interruptable via venom arrow or shock. U also dont have any protection using it, so when someone is on u and u channel like that, u are dead. No other ability takes those risks.

I am annoyed by the abuility but dont u need a certain cp set to reach that numbers? the future of pvp anyway is in the no cp campaigns since they dont lag even half as much as trueflame. RD doesn't hurt there.

U maybe can put ur effort into proxdet issues... that needs way more attention, there is a reason every magbuild is using it.

And you should show stats of everyone using his executioner... that is very important for precise testing.

Guess you forgot the memo that u cant cloak dots. Oh well, it pays to read the patch notes every so often.

PainfulFAFA · March 2016

Elong wrote: »

Unfair comparison, Blaba used Entropy to get Empowerment first.

And hes using Radiant Oppression (bonus dmg for full magicka pool).

leepalmer95 · March 2016

Mumyo wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

Unfair comparison, Blaba used Entropy to get Empowerment first.

You can't empower RD, it's a dot. That was for spell damage buff only.

Well first of all tis a stupid ability and it is whether op or up.

U also shouldn't forget that its bashable, purgeable and cloakable, also interruptable via venom arrow or shock. U also dont have any protection using it, so when someone is on u and u channel like that, u are dead. No other ability takes those risks.

I am annoyed by the abuility but dont u need a certain cp set to reach that numbers? the future of pvp anyway is in the no cp campaigns since they dont lag even half as much as trueflame. RD doesn't hurt there.

U maybe can put ur effort into proxdet issues... that needs way more attention, there is a reason every magbuild is using it.

And you should show stats of everyone using his executioner... that is very important for precise testing.

Isn't killers blade magic dmg? If thats the case, a mag nb would have been better for this going for the magmorph.

But again, RD is whether overpowered or underpowered.

The issue with Proxy is that people are so used to running around with glass cannon builds in the middle or zergs spamming aoe that they don't know how to react or don't want to change their gear to actually put impen on so that proxy doesn't hit them for 10k+.

It's simple maths, gear properly for pvp proxy = 6-8k single target.

Don't gear for pvp, it will hurt, a lot.

Minno · March 2016

Jules wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

Unfair comparison, Blaba used Entropy to get Empowerment first.

You can't empower RD, it's a dot. That was for spell damage buff only.

Correct comparison in video since other stam builds used rally buff.

Issues I have is that this assumes roughly 20k health, NB meta as target. What about heavy armor build with 30k health? 20,40 health/mag stat ratio Templar?
Shields? Impen?
Full light armor? Or 5pc,1,1 undaunted? Nirn/penetrate weapons? (I do see a mace though for stam)

And other executes are not interruptible; a very hard point to not bring up since pvp is about those moments when your enemy is fighting back.

Itoq · March 2016

I don't understand this comparison. Why compare a channeled and interruptable channel to those skills? At the very least the non Templar skills should be combined with gap closers and/or other damage skills.

You set the test up to show what you wanted. Why did you not show that those other skills could kill in half the time of jesus beam, when combined with skils that they would be used with in common use? The you would at least be showing something - that health is too low in ESO (in conjunction with other issues.)

Your science teacher(s) taught you better than this.

Mumyo · March 2016

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Mumyo wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

Unfair comparison, Blaba used Entropy to get Empowerment first.

You can't empower RD, it's a dot. That was for spell damage buff only.

Well first of all tis a stupid ability and it is whether op or up.

U also shouldn't forget that its bashable, purgeable and cloakable, also interruptable via venom arrow or shock. U also dont have any protection using it, so when someone is on u and u channel like that, u are dead. No other ability takes those risks.

I am annoyed by the abuility but dont u need a certain cp set to reach that numbers? the future of pvp anyway is in the no cp campaigns since they dont lag even half as much as trueflame. RD doesn't hurt there.

U maybe can put ur effort into proxdet issues... that needs way more attention, there is a reason every magbuild is using it.

And you should show stats of everyone using his executioner... that is very important for precise testing.

Isn't killers blade magic dmg? If thats the case, a mag nb would have been better for this going for the magmorph.

But again, RD is whether overpowered or underpowered.

The issue with Proxy is that people are so used to running around with glass cannon builds in the middle or zergs spamming aoe that they don't know how to react or don't want to change their gear to actually put impen on so that proxy doesn't hit them for 10k+.

It's simple maths, gear properly for pvp proxy = 6-8k single target.

Don't gear for pvp, it will hurt, a lot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5HXdC8NyIM

Thats on impen and 50 resistant into cp.

Axyredo · March 2016

Zheg wrote: »

When Jules gets class changes she likes, it becomes a hype thread. When other classes get bug fixes she doesn't like, it becomes a nerf thread.

To put it into perspective:
Almost all of the executes you listed don't suffer from the same counters that jesus beam does. Can you interrupt or bash executioner, killer's blade, or mage's wrath? Do executioner, killer's blade, or mage's wrath give you a 3+ second long channel that telegraphs exactly what's hitting you and from what direction? No, and no. Can you cast other skills in addition to executioner, killer's blade, or mage's wrath in the 3+ seconds it takes for one jesus beam to go off and therefore do more base dps? Yes. There are pros and cons to each execute. There wasn't even a buff to the damage of jesus beam this patch, it was just a bug fix to make it so you couldn't dodge the damage you weren't supposed to be able to dodge.

Not even going to bother watching your video, but I'd also assume that you're using the same character, gear, and CP points to test differences between physical and magical executes - because that's obviously a well structured test.

I am really curious to what you sound like. We need to chat in team-speak sometime.

leepalmer95 · March 2016

Mumyo wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Mumyo wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

Unfair comparison, Blaba used Entropy to get Empowerment first.

You can't empower RD, it's a dot. That was for spell damage buff only.

Well first of all tis a stupid ability and it is whether op or up.

U also shouldn't forget that its bashable, purgeable and cloakable, also interruptable via venom arrow or shock. U also dont have any protection using it, so when someone is on u and u channel like that, u are dead. No other ability takes those risks.

I am annoyed by the abuility but dont u need a certain cp set to reach that numbers? the future of pvp anyway is in the no cp campaigns since they dont lag even half as much as trueflame. RD doesn't hurt there.

U maybe can put ur effort into proxdet issues... that needs way more attention, there is a reason every magbuild is using it.

And you should show stats of everyone using his executioner... that is very important for precise testing.

Isn't killers blade magic dmg? If thats the case, a mag nb would have been better for this going for the magmorph.

But again, RD is whether overpowered or underpowered.

The issue with Proxy is that people are so used to running around with glass cannon builds in the middle or zergs spamming aoe that they don't know how to react or don't want to change their gear to actually put impen on so that proxy doesn't hit them for 10k+.

It's simple maths, gear properly for pvp proxy = 6-8k single target.

Don't gear for pvp, it will hurt, a lot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5HXdC8NyIM

Thats on impen and 50 resistant into cp.

You died to a curse/frag/det combo, Which everyone has been doing since 1.6. Is there a point, it only hit you 6.9k.

Sa/Wb/frag/Jabs/Flare/Curse/Concealed will hit harder. They don't have a 8s wait time either.

Also how much impen have you got, is it gold?

Parafrost · March 2016

Itoq wrote: »

I don't understand this comparison. Why compare a channeled and interruptable channel to those skills? At the very least the non Templar skills should be combined with gap closers and/or other damage skills.

You set the test up to show what you wanted. Why did you not show that those other skills could kill in half the time of jesus beam, when combined with skils that they would be used with in common use? The you would at least be showing something - that health is too low in ESO (in conjunction with other issues.)

Your science teacher(s) taught you better than this.

She set the video up to test how executioners work. Since you cant empower RD, it is doing more damage than empowered executes that are not dot. CP changes would decrease the damage by a small fraction of what it is. If this is that hard to understand, then you are just in plain denial...

Lexxypwns · March 2016

Obviously biased test is biased.

Jesus beam SHOULD be stronger since it has counters aside from not being in execute range. It can be interrupted, Cloaked, purged, LoS'ed, or you can even just unleash your own burst on the templar trying to jesus beam you.

I play mag sorc, mag NB, and stam DK so I use all 3 executes in question, I feel every single one of them is more effective than jesus beam since there's no opportunity to interrupt or stop their damage and I don't have to remain stationary to use them.

Edit: and your test didn't include weaving where applicable, lol

Edit 2: The final, killing tick, of jesus beam was less than 1500 more damage than the final executioner and killer's blade, which is made up for by weaving and therefore isn't stronger. Endless fury is the lower damage morph, but I believe the final cast did 7.5k total damage, which, while significantly lower than jesus beam, also carries a chance for a disintegration proc, which would do VASTLY superior damage to jesus beam.

Parafrost · March 2016

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Obviously biased test is biased.

Jesus beam SHOULD be stronger since it has counters aside from not being in execute range. It can be interrupted, Cloaked, purged, LoS'ed, or you can even just unleash your own burst on the templar trying to jesus beam you.

I play mag sorc, mag NB, and stam DK so I use all 3 executes in question, I feel every single one of them is more effective than jesus beam since there's no opportunity to interrupt or stop their damage and I don't have to remain stationary to use them.

Edit: and your test didn't include weaving where applicable, lol

you can dodge roll a executioner. in a 1vx situation, everyone is out to get you. If a templar is radianting you at a distance, you have to spend effort killing the templar that'll just spam bol whenever needed. No one uses radiant in a 1v1 situation since its interruptable. You are not looking at all perspectives and situations. No executioner should be stronger than the other since it IS an execute ability. Templars already have a skill that can stun and it can heal. Radiant has a execute heal. But im not going to complain about that since templars need ways to defend themselves, just not like this. ZOS could easily rework how RD works instead of making it be affected by multiple cps or any skill in that matter.