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Game sorely needs a difficulty slider, it's just too damn boring to quest.

  • Dahveed
    Dahveed
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    After reading through a very lengthy first page of this topic... I decided to contribute my thoughts, as I am bored, yet not bored enough to read any other comments. My apologies if I mention something someone else has already stated.

    Judging by the fact that you're highest lvl char isnt even vet yet (as of the time of that video) I can only assume all you've done is questing and maybe the occasional dungeon. Content past lvl 50 gets much harder, and if you want a real challenge, go try to solo craglorn without a heal :). With that being said, I find the difficulty of the quests to be perfect. I've been playing since the game was released and during beta. I am a very experienced player in terms of MMO's (Been playing for about 9 years) and I was amazed at how difficult things were in the beginning. Questing is much more fluid now and you dont have the difficulty barriers that made it frustrating (NOT FUN). Granted, I kinda liked the difficulty, so I know what you are saying. However, the point of questing throughout your average quest isnt to be hit by a wall of difficulty. You shouldnt have any difficulty dispatching a wolf or a mudcrab. Your average bandit shouldnt be hard to kill either. You are an un-killable (can always resurrect) soulless machine, so why should it be hard to kill simple things? You should be enjoying the quests for the content, not the difficulty. Difficulty is introduced at vet lvls and on.

    Your perspective you gave in the original post also simplifies the game way too much. Like several others pointed out, you are using a sneak attack (guaranteed crit), and a teleport strike (at least in the video). A 2 sec stun can cripple most enemies.

    What I mean by that is how you play makes the game easier for you. For example, I play with over 340 CP on my baby toons and fly through 1-50. If you dont enjoy it, mix it up. However, dont expect things to be hard to kill if they are not 2 diamond or 3 diamond difficulty.

    Also, from a programmer's standpoint (though im not sure if someone mentioned this already) would not take 20 min to implement as you said... its not as simple as just modifying a value or adding in an optional debuff. There is a lot of work that has to go into just adding in one tiny feature, testing, new bugs that might create, QA, and obviously writing the code itself which would have to be completely seperate from their monster mechanics anyways, as you are not adjusting current values itself, but providing the option to modify values of either the character or monster. Granted, I have never worked on an MMO before, but I have worked on my own games and been programming various projects for about 4 years.

    Lastly, I dont see this ever being a possibility. The market for it is simply not there. Several players might see it as a welcomed addition, but others (Many many others) would agree that its a waste of ZoS resources... Maybe when the game is stable they can throw in another mechanic to mess it up. It wouldnt be something they sell in the crown store, because how would they sell that? A thing that decreases your dmg done? Who in their right mind would want that? They wouldnt be able to make that profitable at all. That means that the mechanic would have to be a base game implementation. Either way, see my paragraph above..

    That's my two cents. Take what you want of it.

    I don't recall ever saying it would take 20 minutes. Honestly I can't say exactly how long it would take, since I have no real way of knowing; only of guessing. And I am guessing that implementing a feature (the debuff) that already exists in the game wouldn't be very time consuming. They'd just need to modify its value and longevity.

    You're right, for the most part all I've done is questing. I've also solo'd a few dungeons, and it was interesting; but I have no desire to repeat dungeons I've already cleared, but on a higher difficulty.

    You'd be surprised how many people think like I do; who want to just quest and adventure in the open world and be challenged by what it offers.

    Back when I played WoW, I'd roll with my brothers, my friends, their girlfriends, their wives, and guildmates. We had our own "family guild" whose only members were people we actually knew IRL. I think our peak membership was about 50-something... we all had the same mentality of running alts, doing quests, doing world PvP, occasionally a dungeon, basically spending 95% of our time doing these activities, with the odd Battleground from time to time.

    Then they released Cataclysm expansion: every zone in the entire game was nerfed, world PvP became almost impossible, all quest zones were streamlined, all characters were buffed, and xp was buffed. Open world Azeroth now looked basically like ESO open world does now: Efficient, balanced, easy, and fast. And also extremely boring and predictable.

    Within 4 months our entire guild died. Everyone just quit. Me and my brothers stuck it out for a while longer, and I still visit the F2P version from time to time to see if anything has changed. But everyone, I mean *everyone* in the guild had no more reason to play.

    I tried showing some friends this game to get people I know to play it, but these are basically the same people who quit WoW. I let a couple people make a new toon on my account just to see. Within an hour their answer was "no", it's just too boring and easy. Nothing exciting ever happens except dialogue. Everything is instantly squished, which is the same reason they quit WoW.

    I know this is a small sample size out of hundreds of thousands of potential players... but it ought to be at least some minimum indication that yes, there ARE people out there who want more difficulty. Even this thread is evidence of that, as many people here are in agreement.
  • Cryptical
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    Dahveed wrote: »
    JD2013 wrote: »
    Do any MMO's have difficulty sliders?

    I mean, it seems like it would be a royal pain to implement, given that there may be, at any given time, people around you with different difficulty settings, fighting the same monsters.

    No, it would not be difficult.

    If a monster attacked a normal player, he would deal normal damage.

    If the same monster turned around and attacked me, he would deal that same damage with a multiplier of 2, because I have a nerf on me.

    It's literally easy enough for an intern to implement in 20 minutes.

    If you still can't remember the 20 minute claim, here you go. First page, post #20.
    Xbox NA
  • CP5
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    Alright, read some more of this thread and see there is a lot of.. 'conversations' happening so i'll just give my perspective, a solution that may or maynot have already been listed, and leave it at that.

    I have a v16 character and I want to finish out all of the quest throughout the zones on them. This means fighting a lot of v10ish mobs, and they aren't even worth the time to notice. I went to the end of one of the major quest chains and oh no, there is this oh so powerful lich being raised from the dead. And oh no, he was revived. But before he finishes his first monologue, or even summons any minions (if he even does?) he was dead. I get more challenge trying to run past the mobs than I do killing them. Because I leveled this content is not even worth my attention to complete.

    What I would suggest is an option, a toggle that when enabled battle levels your character down to the zone you're in. You would retain skills and passives and what not (perhaps with a debuff to compensate for those) and attributes would be determined by the ratio you have the attribute points spread out in. But you would gain rewards for the zone equal to your characters level. Meaning you wouldn't have to worry about going to a zone only to complete a checklist of chores, the drops you find, the rewards you get, the enemies you face, all would be at least worth fighting. And for those who don't like challenge, well then leave this setting off, simple as that.
  • Dahveed
    Dahveed
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    Cryptical wrote: »
    Dahveed wrote: »
    JD2013 wrote: »
    Do any MMO's have difficulty sliders?

    I mean, it seems like it would be a royal pain to implement, given that there may be, at any given time, people around you with different difficulty settings, fighting the same monsters.

    No, it would not be difficult.

    If a monster attacked a normal player, he would deal normal damage.

    If the same monster turned around and attacked me, he would deal that same damage with a multiplier of 2, because I have a nerf on me.

    It's literally easy enough for an intern to implement in 20 minutes.

    If you still can't remember the 20 minute claim, here you go. First page, post #20.

    lol busted :disappointed:

    Ok my hyperbole got the best of me there in a heated moment. As they say, "mistakes were made".

    I still think it would be very easy to implement.
  • Dahveed
    Dahveed
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    CP5 wrote: »
    Alright, read some more of this thread and see there is a lot of.. 'conversations' happening so i'll just give my perspective, a solution that may or maynot have already been listed, and leave it at that.

    I have a v16 character and I want to finish out all of the quest throughout the zones on them. This means fighting a lot of v10ish mobs, and they aren't even worth the time to notice. I went to the end of one of the major quest chains and oh no, there is this oh so powerful lich being raised from the dead. And oh no, he was revived. But before he finishes his first monologue, or even summons any minions (if he even does?) he was dead. I get more challenge trying to run past the mobs than I do killing them. Because I leveled this content is not even worth my attention to complete.

    What I would suggest is an option, a toggle that when enabled battle levels your character down to the zone you're in. You would retain skills and passives and what not (perhaps with a debuff to compensate for those) and attributes would be determined by the ratio you have the attribute points spread out in. But you would gain rewards for the zone equal to your characters level. Meaning you wouldn't have to worry about going to a zone only to complete a checklist of chores, the drops you find, the rewards you get, the enemies you face, all would be at least worth fighting. And for those who don't like challenge, well then leave this setting off, simple as that.

    Interesting, but people would complain about the loot being unfair somehow. And I am guessing it would take a lot of work to rescale all the rewards.

    But if they did do something like this, it would at least be a step in the right direction.
  • waterfairy
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    Dahveed wrote: »

    You didn't pay any attention to the OP. Read it again, and you'll realize how foolish your statement is.
    ha I've seen this same rant about Fallout and TES so many times that I assumed it was the same situation...clearly I was wrong :p

    I know the starting area is easy but I don't remember it being that easy. There's still plenty of challenge to be found in the game with dungeons and the like. I get killed when not careful and I encounter tough enemies like a harvester that I was wailing on for what seemed like an eternity because every 5-10 seconds they would zap me and replenish their health.
  • Dahveed
    Dahveed
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    Vigarr wrote: »
    Dahveed wrote: »

    You didn't pay any attention to the OP. Read it again, and you'll realize how foolish your statement is.
    ha I've seen this same rant about Fallout and TES so many times that I assumed it was the same situation...clearly I was wrong :p

    I know the starting area is easy but I don't remember it being that easy. There's still plenty of challenge to be found in the game with dungeons and the like. I get killed when not careful and I encounter tough enemies like a harvester that I was wailing on for what seemed like an eternity because every 5-10 seconds they would zap me and replenish their health.

    I understand this, but I really love open world questing (in general), but I find this game gets it horribly wrong. There's no thrill.
  • spoqster
    spoqster
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    Just an FYI, I did the Werewolf quest at level 8 today. That was a challenge. I had to use Champion Points. Not sure if it is possible without.
  • coolmodi
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    The WW (and Vamp) quest was possibe under 10 even before there were CPs. You really had to play clever though, like for some quests in the past. I remembder that mage quest with that calnnfear, you actually had to do more than press one button to win. Now you can just light attack 90% of the content.
    Edited by coolmodi on March 16, 2016 1:13PM
  • CP5
    CP5
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    The only 'challenge' in doing those quest at such a low level is the damage the mobs do (which is manageable) and the artificial dodge chance mobs above your level gain. If it weren't for that dodge chance those mobs would be incredibly easy to kill.
  • spoqster
    spoqster
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    CP5 wrote: »
    The only 'challenge' in doing those quest at such a low level is the damage the mobs do (which is manageable) and the artificial dodge chance mobs above your level gain. If it weren't for that dodge chance those mobs would be incredibly easy to kill.

    Yes. I was level 8, the mobs were level 38, and the only challenge I had doing the quest was due to the mobs having such a high dodge rating, that I missed at least 50% of my attacks. That tells us a lot about the difficulty of the leveling zones.
  • Dahveed
    Dahveed
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    spoqster wrote: »
    Just an FYI, I did the Werewolf quest at level 8 today. That was a challenge. I had to use Champion Points. Not sure if it is possible without.

    I've messed around with some high level stuff too, but I always feel like it's artificial, and that I'm missing other content.
  • spoqster
    spoqster
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    Dahveed wrote: »
    spoqster wrote: »
    Just an FYI, I did the Werewolf quest at level 8 today. That was a challenge. I had to use Champion Points. Not sure if it is possible without.

    I've messed around with some high level stuff too, but I always feel like it's artificial, and that I'm missing other content.

    Yeah, you are. And sadly, that is the feeling you have to get over if you want to enjoy ESO at the moment. But fun is still to be had. In this case I went in there as a level 7 with battered armor and couldn't beat the quest. Then I went back, repaired my armor, spent my Champion Points and leveled up to level 8 (I was very close already), and then it worked.

    That's exactly what I want in a game: Try, get beat, go back, buff up, make a plan, and come back to beat the challenge.

    And it's all there in the game: Wrothgar as a low level, Maelstrom Arena and especially Imperial City. It's just that you'll have to pay extra if you actually want to have fun. But the Crown Store sale is still up for a day, so you can really get the DLCs cheaply at the moment. EDIT: That offer seems to be over now.


    But of course I am still with you that there should be a way to enjoy the leveling content in the game. I am hoping that they're working on it. For now, if you want to enjoy ESO though, you can, if you play the DLCs.
    Edited by spoqster on March 17, 2016 10:47AM
  • tinythinker
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    Not sure why this is controversial. I get that some people would prefer development resources spent on something else, but that could be argued about for any player suggested feature. If a toggle/slider only debuffed you (damage done and healing received reduced/damage taken increased), nothing else has to be altered or rebalanced. Only players who consistently find that they are facerolling everything would want to use it. If a player wanted to constantly move the slider around for some reason, that's their issue and doesn't affect anyone else. I don't see this feature as a priority and won't care if never goes in, but it's very cut and dried and the idea gets my :+1: because it solves a problem without imposing on other players.
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  • Dahveed
    Dahveed
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    Not sure why this is controversial. I get that some people would prefer development resources spent on something else, but that could be argued about for any player suggested feature. If a toggle/slider only debuffed you (damage done and healing received reduced/damage taken increased), nothing else has to be altered or rebalanced. Only players who consistently find that they are facerolling everything would want to use it. If a player wanted to constantly move the slider around for some reason, that's their issue and doesn't affect anyone else. I don't see this feature as a priority and won't care if never goes in, but it's very cut and dried and the idea gets my :+1: because it solves a problem without imposing on other players.

    I appreciate your reasonableness.

    Not sure if "reasonableness" is a word, but spell check doesn't seem so care about it, so... lol.
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