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Game sorely needs a difficulty slider, it's just too damn boring to quest.
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dimensional✭✭✭✭✭
✭Slayer9292_ESO wrote: »
I suggest if you want to try something harder, then either do some public dungeons or dolmens solo. Level up a bit and do some group dungeons (try doing one solo if you want a real challenge). And when you get to vet levels you can try trials, Maelstrom Arena, and Vet Dungeons.
You can also do PVP, since it's against other players I'm sure you'll see a big difficulty change.
Haha, I suggested the same thing and was told that wasn't a valid suggestion. He doesn't even play the game anymore (by his own admission).
0 -
Dahveed✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I was hoping I'd be able to roll *at least* 3 different characters (one for each faction, to play through each ones storylines with a different character), but I am face with boredom of soul-crushing proportions when I try to play the low level quests...
Then maybe the game isn't for you. You have by your own admission, not spent that much time playing, yet you have obviously spent quite a bit of time on this thread, hoping to get others to agree with you.
Respectfully, maybe you just need to find a pastime that you would enjoy more?
I do. But I also want this game to improve because I see its epic potential. The groundwork is already there for it to be the best MMO in the world. The quests are interesting, the DLCs are interesting, the pay model is great, voice acting, crafting, animations, combat etc etc etc...
It's just that the numbers at low levels are absolutely broken. One small tweak of numbers would be all it would take to pull me back in 100%.
I'm not here because I hate this game; I'm here because I see how fun it could be. I'm trying to be constructive, but the discussion always gets derailed by people like you who try to derail it by saying things like "if you don't like it, just leave".1 -
jkemmery✭✭✭✭
@DahveedNot sure if this has been covered or not. Sorry if it has. But if you haven't earned any CP, the CP icon doesn't appear in the top bar while in the inventory, skills, etc. The proof is right there in the video...
Yeah it's there for people who want to see it.
I'm still waiting for that jkemmery guy to finally admit he's wrong, and apologize for his infantile accusations. I'm not holding my breath, for obvious reasons.
I'm not going to apologize. The fact that you can go around one shotting mobs on video doesn't mean the game is easy. I tried to do it with a low level character and couldn't. Your explanations of how you did are inadequate. However it is that you managed to pull off that feat, it isn't something that is replicate-able by others. The fact that you are so concerned about my opinion gives all the more credence to the fact that you were NOT in fact playing in the manner you describe, but have done something to make it seem easy. And I don't care any more. I'm not offering an apology, so please quit bringing me back in to the subject.
jkemmery,
You accused me of lying and trolling. That is what I want an apology for.
You said I was claiming to do something that couldn't be done. So I provided proof.
You claimed my "proof" was inadequate, because I was somehow hiding the fact that I had CP points when I claimed I didn't.
I then provided proof that I in fact did not have any CP, which is backed by others in this thread.
So your claims that I was somehow lying about all this are blatantly false. I just want you to acknowledge that.
Look at the video. How am I doing something that, according to you, is impossible? You can see my naked, CP-less level 7 character walk up to a level 10 creature, press a button, and 1-shot it. Several times. At one point even a level 12 goes down in 1 shot.
YOU HAVE THE PROOF IN FRONT OF YOUR FACE.
Do you think I am somehow cheating or something? What proof do you have that I am lying about any of this?
Be a man, admit that you were wrong. And maybe retract some of your hateful, negative nonsense.
I don't acknowledge that you're not lying or trolling. I think you are, in fact, STILL doing both. My experience shows me that you must be doing something to make it that easy for yourself. But again, you care much more than I do.
I'm willing to simply agree to disagree if you are and will just drop it.1 -
Dahveed✭✭✭✭✭
✭dimensional wrote: »Slayer9292_ESO wrote: »
I suggest if you want to try something harder, then either do some public dungeons or dolmens solo. Level up a bit and do some group dungeons (try doing one solo if you want a real challenge). And when you get to vet levels you can try trials, Maelstrom Arena, and Vet Dungeons.
You can also do PVP, since it's against other players I'm sure you'll see a big difficulty change.
Haha, I suggested the same thing and was told that wasn't a valid suggestion. He doesn't even play the game anymore (by his own admission).
When did I say it "wasn't a valid suggestion"?
I can't remember how I replied to everyone exactly, but my point is that questing would be infinitely more fun if it were more challenging.
This is a PvE game, but the vast majority of PvE content is seen as irrelevant, just a stepping stone to get to the "real" content.0 -
Dahveed✭✭✭✭✭
✭dimensional wrote: »Because we suggested alternatives and you rudely shot them down, further displaying that you aren't even having this discussion in good faith. Obviously we as players have nothing to do with the development of this game but when someone says "go do some dungeons" as an alternative to have a challenging experience and you won't even accept it as a valid response, you're going to get backlash because you yourself are also acting like a child.
Give me one example of me being "rude".0 -
dimensional✭✭✭✭✭
✭I personally would like more of a challenge in solo PVE zones as well but I understand that adding something like a difficulty slider to solve this problem is something that requires a lot of nuance and technical planning on the programming side of things. It isn't an easy thing to add de facto, it would touch so many areas of the game and make server calculations a nightmare unless handled properly. This is why you won't see anything like this in the game, ZOS won't even fix simple bugs that have been around for 6+ months, I certainly don't expect them to place anything like this on their priority list (even at the bottom).0 -
Dahveed✭✭✭✭✭
✭
@DahveedNot sure if this has been covered or not. Sorry if it has. But if you haven't earned any CP, the CP icon doesn't appear in the top bar while in the inventory, skills, etc. The proof is right there in the video...
Yeah it's there for people who want to see it.
I'm still waiting for that jkemmery guy to finally admit he's wrong, and apologize for his infantile accusations. I'm not holding my breath, for obvious reasons.
I'm not going to apologize. The fact that you can go around one shotting mobs on video doesn't mean the game is easy. I tried to do it with a low level character and couldn't. Your explanations of how you did are inadequate. However it is that you managed to pull off that feat, it isn't something that is replicate-able by others. The fact that you are so concerned about my opinion gives all the more credence to the fact that you were NOT in fact playing in the manner you describe, but have done something to make it seem easy. And I don't care any more. I'm not offering an apology, so please quit bringing me back in to the subject.
jkemmery,
You accused me of lying and trolling. That is what I want an apology for.
You said I was claiming to do something that couldn't be done. So I provided proof.
You claimed my "proof" was inadequate, because I was somehow hiding the fact that I had CP points when I claimed I didn't.
I then provided proof that I in fact did not have any CP, which is backed by others in this thread.
So your claims that I was somehow lying about all this are blatantly false. I just want you to acknowledge that.
Look at the video. How am I doing something that, according to you, is impossible? You can see my naked, CP-less level 7 character walk up to a level 10 creature, press a button, and 1-shot it. Several times. At one point even a level 12 goes down in 1 shot.
YOU HAVE THE PROOF IN FRONT OF YOUR FACE.
Do you think I am somehow cheating or something? What proof do you have that I am lying about any of this?
Be a man, admit that you were wrong. And maybe retract some of your hateful, negative nonsense.
I don't acknowledge that you're not lying or trolling. I think you are, in fact, STILL doing both. My experience shows me that you must be doing something to make it that easy for yourself. But again, you care much more than I do.
I'm willing to simply agree to disagree if you are and will just drop it.
No, when people accuse me of lying and then stick their fingers in their ears, I do not just "drop it".
If this were RL and not a forum discussion, I probably would have punched you in the face by now.
You are accusing me of lying. I do not take that lightly.
Tell me how I am lying. Prove to me that I am lying.
Until then you are just a child in a 48-year-old man's clothing spouting infantile accusations.0 -
Dahveed✭✭✭✭✭
✭Well things are heating back up again, but unfortunately I have to get to work...
I look forward to continuing the discussion (much) later.
Thanks to everyone who has tried to stay positive and constructive about this, some people have brought up good points.
Still waiting on others to man up and admit when they are wrong.
Good day...0 -
jkemmery✭✭✭✭
@DahveedNot sure if this has been covered or not. Sorry if it has. But if you haven't earned any CP, the CP icon doesn't appear in the top bar while in the inventory, skills, etc. The proof is right there in the video...
Yeah it's there for people who want to see it.
I'm still waiting for that jkemmery guy to finally admit he's wrong, and apologize for his infantile accusations. I'm not holding my breath, for obvious reasons.
I'm not going to apologize. The fact that you can go around one shotting mobs on video doesn't mean the game is easy. I tried to do it with a low level character and couldn't. Your explanations of how you did are inadequate. However it is that you managed to pull off that feat, it isn't something that is replicate-able by others. The fact that you are so concerned about my opinion gives all the more credence to the fact that you were NOT in fact playing in the manner you describe, but have done something to make it seem easy. And I don't care any more. I'm not offering an apology, so please quit bringing me back in to the subject.
jkemmery,
You accused me of lying and trolling. That is what I want an apology for.
You said I was claiming to do something that couldn't be done. So I provided proof.
You claimed my "proof" was inadequate, because I was somehow hiding the fact that I had CP points when I claimed I didn't.
I then provided proof that I in fact did not have any CP, which is backed by others in this thread.
So your claims that I was somehow lying about all this are blatantly false. I just want you to acknowledge that.
Look at the video. How am I doing something that, according to you, is impossible? You can see my naked, CP-less level 7 character walk up to a level 10 creature, press a button, and 1-shot it. Several times. At one point even a level 12 goes down in 1 shot.
YOU HAVE THE PROOF IN FRONT OF YOUR FACE.
Do you think I am somehow cheating or something? What proof do you have that I am lying about any of this?
Be a man, admit that you were wrong. And maybe retract some of your hateful, negative nonsense.
I don't acknowledge that you're not lying or trolling. I think you are, in fact, STILL doing both. My experience shows me that you must be doing something to make it that easy for yourself. But again, you care much more than I do.
I'm willing to simply agree to disagree if you are and will just drop it.
No, when people accuse me of lying and then stick their fingers in their ears, I do not just "drop it".
If this were RL and not a forum discussion, I probably would have punched you in the face by now.
You are accusing me of lying. I do not take that lightly.
Tell me how I am lying. Prove to me that I am lying.
Until then you are just a child in a 48-year-old man's clothing spouting infantile accusations.
Have you ever heard of the psychological construct of reflection?0 -
dimensional✭✭✭✭✭
✭dimensional wrote: »Because we suggested alternatives and you rudely shot them down, further displaying that you aren't even having this discussion in good faith. Obviously we as players have nothing to do with the development of this game but when someone says "go do some dungeons" as an alternative to have a challenging experience and you won't even accept it as a valid response, you're going to get backlash because you yourself are also acting like a child.
Give me one example of me being "rude".
Here's you admitting to the mod in this very thread that you are at at the least somewhat guilty of being uncivil in the conversation. Forgot about that so soon?
Sorry, I can admit to being somewhat guilty. Some of my frustration is showing, especially when I quite blatantly get accused of lying, trolling, etc.
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Shunravi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@jkemmery we have both shown you proof of our arguments. I linked you a video from two years ago that that shows exactly what i was talking about from that time, and if i could have made a video then, thats more or less what it would have looked like. @Dahveed linked a video where you can see hes naked, and his menu bar shows his account has not unlocked cp. also, you can see that he is not oneshotting every enemy. The lvl 12 appears to happen on a crit. Can you share your sample size or post your own video? Because at this point you are just standing there with your fingers in your ears saying 'im not listening.'This one has an eloquent and well thought out response to tha... Ooh sweetroll!0 -
cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭dimensional wrote: »
Whining about other people trying to have good things put into the game with good suggestions is very useless, maybe you should just find another game you can go and whine about the devs not listening etc?R.I.P. Daranth Spellborn
VR16 Dunmer Sorcerer
March 2014 - May 2016
He was a skilled Crafter and a reliable Sorcerer;
Then came the Dark Brotherhood
Wrobel wrote: Surge is now more effective for tank characters.
Because crit tanks are so good, LOL. xD0 -
dimensional✭✭✭✭✭
✭cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »dimensional wrote: »
Whining about other people trying to have good things put into the game with good suggestions is very useless, maybe you should just find another game you can go and whine about the devs not listening etc?
Whining about other people who point out obvious reasons why their pet idea won't get implemented is very useless, maybe you should go find another game you can go and whine about people who disagree with others?0 -
cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭@Dahveed
This thread had pretty much devolved in to you arguing with everyone else. In no time it will be closed by the devs, and your idea of implementing a difficulty slider will have actually been hurt, not helped, by your actions.
Well, you being a textbook case of paranoid, thinking everyone else is out to get you and lie to you constantly doesn't help the conversation in any way either.R.I.P. Daranth Spellborn
VR16 Dunmer Sorcerer
March 2014 - May 2016
He was a skilled Crafter and a reliable Sorcerer;
Then came the Dark Brotherhood
Wrobel wrote: Surge is now more effective for tank characters.
Because crit tanks are so good, LOL. xD0 -
cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭dimensional wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »dimensional wrote: »
Whining about other people trying to have good things put into the game with good suggestions is very useless, maybe you should just find another game you can go and whine about the devs not listening etc?
Whining about other people who point out obvious reasons why their pet idea won't get implemented is very useless, maybe you should go find another game you can go and whine about people who disagree with others?
There's no real obvious reasons that's been listed so far, only people that worries that they might have to become better players as a result to complete complete faceroll content. And you're not disagreeing with others, you're just kicking and screaming like a child because of some bugs that haven't been fixed by the devs yet.R.I.P. Daranth Spellborn
VR16 Dunmer Sorcerer
March 2014 - May 2016
He was a skilled Crafter and a reliable Sorcerer;
Then came the Dark Brotherhood
Wrobel wrote: Surge is now more effective for tank characters.
Because crit tanks are so good, LOL. xD0 -
dimensional✭✭✭✭✭
✭cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »dimensional wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »dimensional wrote: »
Whining about other people trying to have good things put into the game with good suggestions is very useless, maybe you should just find another game you can go and whine about the devs not listening etc?
Whining about other people who point out obvious reasons why their pet idea won't get implemented is very useless, maybe you should go find another game you can go and whine about people who disagree with others?
There's no real obvious reasons that's been listed so far, only people that worries that they might have to become better players as a result to complete complete faceroll content. And you're not disagreeing with others, you're just kicking and screaming like a child because of some bugs that haven't been fixed by the devs yet.
Spoken like someone who has clearly not read the thread or the numerous responses why this won't happen. I am disagreeing with others, you're just willfully ignoring the comments I've made in favor of inane responses that have nothing to do with the topic like a spoiled little kid.0 -
cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭dimensional wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »dimensional wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »dimensional wrote: »
Whining about other people trying to have good things put into the game with good suggestions is very useless, maybe you should just find another game you can go and whine about the devs not listening etc?
Whining about other people who point out obvious reasons why their pet idea won't get implemented is very useless, maybe you should go find another game you can go and whine about people who disagree with others?
There's no real obvious reasons that's been listed so far, only people that worries that they might have to become better players as a result to complete complete faceroll content. And you're not disagreeing with others, you're just kicking and screaming like a child because of some bugs that haven't been fixed by the devs yet.
Spoken like someone who has clearly not read the thread or the numerous responses why this won't happen. I am disagreeing with others, you're just willfully ignoring the comments I've made in favor of inane responses that have nothing to do with the topic like a spoiled little kid.
Oh, I've read the entire thread, but there's no real reasons as to why it can't be put into the game, and I've seen you just try to insult everyone you responded to in the entire thread and never giving any good reasons as to why it's not viable, just told us that it's not possible because the devs don't listen to us because they've not fixed some bugs put into the game 6+ months ago. But if you want to act like a troll then go ahead.Edited by cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO on March 10, 2016 6:41PMR.I.P. Daranth Spellborn
VR16 Dunmer Sorcerer
March 2014 - May 2016
He was a skilled Crafter and a reliable Sorcerer;
Then came the Dark Brotherhood
Wrobel wrote: Surge is now more effective for tank characters.
Because crit tanks are so good, LOL. xD0 -
jkemmery✭✭✭✭@jkemmery we have both shown you proof of our arguments. I linked you a video from two years ago that that shows exactly what i was talking about from that time, and if i could have made a video then, thats more or less what it would have looked like. @Dahveed linked a video where you can see hes naked, and his menu bar shows his account has not unlocked cp. also, you can see that he is not oneshotting every enemy. The lvl 12 appears to happen on a crit. Can you share your sample size or post your own video? Because at this point you are just standing there with your fingers in your ears saying 'im not listening.'
I never said I was not listening. What I am saying is that I don't believe he is as light as he says in the video. Do you really want me to post a video of me running around in soul shriven gear NOT one shotting mobs? Just to prove to you that I can't do it? I asked how it was done, and you both said from stealth. Well, I can't do it with a nightblade from stealth. Do you want me to prove that to you somehow?
I saw him one shotting mobs with a bow. He's not hitting them all in the neck, as if arrow placement has anything to do with it. It's impossible for me to do that. I can one shot a lvl 3 wolf with my new lvl 5 NB when it crits, but that's about it. When I applied the CP I could one shot some things.
You want me to admit I was wrong? Or that I suck at playing the game? I honestly believe that what ever he is doing in the video he posted, he is NOT being 100% truthful about how he did it. I cannot replicate his actions. I admit I'm not the best player in the game, but I'm pretty sure I can sneak and hold the right mouse button down as well as anyone. You showed me a video of a guy killing 2 mobs with a heavy 2H attack from stealth. Awesome. There was no explanation of how it was done.
What the #$%^ do you want me to admit? That I was wrong? I don't believe I was. That he was being 100% honest about his ability to one shot mobs with his char? I honestly believe he wasn't. That I suck at the game? Well, I admit I'm not the best but I do have one VR16 so I must at least be average, but I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that there are many players far better than I am.
Edited by jkemmery on March 10, 2016 6:46PM1 -
dimensional✭✭✭✭✭
✭cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »
Oh, I've read the entire thread, but there's no real reasons as to why it can't be put into the game, and I've seen you just try to insult everyone you responded to in the entire thread and never giving any good reasons as to why it's not viable, just told us that it's not possible because the devs don't listen to us because they've not fixed some bugs put into the game 6+ months ago.
There are incredibly real and concrete reasons why it won't happen, not that it can't happen. And I haven't insulted anyone in the thread, much less "everyone I responded to". You clearly haven't been reading.
The examples I brought up about bugs and devs not listening were in direct response to someone who said that they do listen, those weren't just brought up for no reason. It is very relevant to this idea of implementing a huge addition to the game system. If a dev team struggles with relatively simple bug fixes and even smaller feature requests for half a year, what gives you the faith they would do something like this? The writing is on the wall, if only you'd read it.cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »But if you want to act like a troll then go ahead
Spoken like someone without a point to make (and also something a troll would say).Edited by dimensional on March 10, 2016 6:45PM1 -
Shunravi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@jkemmery we have both shown you proof of our arguments. I linked you a video from two years ago that that shows exactly what i was talking about from that time, and if i could have made a video then, thats more or less what it would have looked like. @Dahveed linked a video where you can see hes naked, and his menu bar shows his account has not unlocked cp. also, you can see that he is not oneshotting every enemy. The lvl 12 appears to happen on a crit. Can you share your sample size or post your own video? Because at this point you are just standing there with your fingers in your ears saying 'im not listening.'
I never said I was not listening. What I am saying is that I don't believe he is as light as he says in the video. Do you really want me to post a video of me running around in soul shriven gear NOT one shotting mobs? Just to prove to you that I can't do it? I asked how it was done, and you both said from stealth. Well, I can't do it with a nightblade from stealth. Do you want me to prove that to you somehow?
I saw him one shotting mobs with a bow. He's not hitting them all in the neck, as if arrow placement has anything to do with it. It's impossible for me to do that. I can one shot a lvl 3 wolf with my new lvl 5 NB when it crits, but that's about it. When I applied the CP I could one shot some things.
You want me to admit I was wrong? Or that I suck at playing the game? I honestly believe that what ever he is doing in the video he posted, he is NOT being 100% truthful about how he did it. I cannot replicate his actions. I admit I'm not the best player in the game, but I'm pretty sure I can sneak and hold the right mouse button down as well as anyone. You showed me a video of a guy killing 2 mobs with a heavy 2H attack from stealth. Awesome. There was no explanation of how it was done.
What the #$%^ do you want me to admit? That I was wrong? I don't believe I was. That he was being 100% honest about his ability to one shot mobs with his char? I honestly believe he wasn't. That I suck at the game? Well, I admit I'm not the best but I do have one VR16 so I must at least be average, but I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that there are many players far better than I am.
For scientific reasons, yes, I would like to see a sample size of similar opponents. Beasts, and an assortment of overland humanoids. The number one thing I would like to see is if the approximate damage done is the same when you do not one shot something.
Did I mistype and say neck? Sorry if that's the case. You are right, placement is irrelevant.
This is not about being good at the game. This is about you calling both of us liars. In response I have called you a liar, And that is another reason I'm asking for video proof. I do not want to label you a liar, but in this instance where we have both shown evidence of our claims, I would like to not hold that over you.
Every stealth attack back then (at the time of my video) was a guaranteed crit. Something clearly not shown in @Dahveed's video and your own experience. I consider this vast overkill, but in the old video description he says he has retreating maneuvers, rally, and a damage potion. I can say but not prove that this was not necessary. So we will have to leave it at that.
You have called us both liars. And we have shown you our proof. This is not nor has it ever been about skill. To us you are trying to push an anti cp message. And are stubbornly trying to prove it with just words. If you want to discuss cp, yes, it's not a great system. If you think I'm trying to put you down or call you bad, then I either have not presented myself well, or you are gravely misenterpreting me. I personally wish we still had the pre 1.6 system with no cp and with hybrids still a viable thing.
I am here and actively posting because in every discussion about difficulty since the cp system launch has always devolved to saying cp are op regardless of what the thread owner states or means with their post. Cp are just a mask for what some see as an overlying issue of the game. The same arguments were being had before we even knew they were concidering the cp system. This isn't about cp. And this thread is the least about cp that I've seen. Yet you want to make it about cp.
It's well and good that you are having fun and like where things are. But others aren't. In this specific instance the op is asking for some sort of debuff so that he can have fun. Not to change the game for you or others who are fine with where it is.Edited by Shunravi on March 10, 2016 7:37PMThis one has an eloquent and well thought out response to tha... Ooh sweetroll!0 -
Alphashado✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Alphashado wrote: »I've already expressed my opinion on how silly it is to judge the overall difficulty of a game while intentionally dwelling in easy content while refusing to progress into more difficult content.
So I won't expound further on that topic.
However, there is one important flawed aspect to the concept of a difficulty slider in a persistent, open-world MMO, and that is this:
Any type of dynamic or group related activity such as world bosses, Dolmen, public dungeons etc would/could have outcomes directly related to your slider/debuff. Each of these events are designed to be enjoyed by multiple players at the same time. (Hense MMO) Therefore, any debuff willingly placed on any player partaking in these events would directly effect every player participating in these events whether they like it or not. The notion that a debuff would only effect you is flawed due to the fact that your debuff would/could cause each of these events to fail or take longer. A single player using a debuff would essentially nerf every other person involved in any sort of dynamic event.
Now if there were some sort of way to deactivate such a debuff or difficulty slider the instant you hit/healed/took damage from any creature involved in these events... then it would be truly harmless and would effect nobody other than yourself. But such an expenditure of developmental resources would be unwise considering more important issues such as class balance and bugs/performance. Especially considering there is plenty of challenging content (some extremely challenging) already in the game if you simply invest the small effort required to find it.
I understand your points, but these open world dynamic events are so sparse and so underwhelming (and repetitive) as to be almost totally insignificant regarding character progression and balance.
So let's say that, normally, I'd arrive at a Dolmen to participate in breaking the chains by defeating the enemies. Upon my arrival, more creatures spawn and/or those creatures get stronger. (I believe this is how it works?) This compensates for the fact that they have an additional player.
Now if said additional player arrives with a debuff (i.e. he's an expert player who really knows what he's doing, finds the content too easily, and self-applied this debuff), you are saying this would negatively affect other players.
I get the argument... except that it doesn't really work when you truly think about it. Because this additional player already knows what he is doing. He is an expert deliberately seeking more challenge, and thus will still significantly contribute to victory - he will know how to use his abilities, cooldowns, dodge, min/max resources etc.
I understand you'd be afraid that some buffoonish noob with a debuff comes in, doesn't help at all and furthermore makes things more difficult for others... just ends up being a burden, disrupting balance and thus making the game unfair. But this simply isn't the case. A player with a debuff is almost by default a player who knows exactly what he is doing and how to contribute.
And, finally, I just want to add that these group events are such a sad joke to witness in terms of "difficulty" that it is almost not even worth mentioning the word "balance" when referring to them. The only problem I've EVER had when participating in the closing of a dolmen gate is not being able to attack the creatures before they die, because other players kill them too quickly. They are a complete joke, so you'll pardon me for not taking words like "balance" too seriously when talking about them.
However I do appreciate the thought you've put into your post. It's an interesting point, but I don't think it's nearly as important as you would think.... and, as I've said in a different reply somewhere in this thread:
Part of the reason why MMOs have become so stale is that the devs are too worried about coddling players with perfect, smooth balance (i.e. easy gameplay), and are thus unable to provide spontaneous, interesting, dangerous and unpredictable open worlds. Nobody has the balls to implement something like this because they worry, worry, worry about everything.
This translates into stale, repetitive, easy gameplay in the vast majority of the open world, and the MMO just looks like yet another boring copy/paste of every generic fetch quest MMO on the market. Which is precisely why people like myself cannot bring themselves to play them.
Whether you choose to accept it or not, I have listed and explained why:
#1 There are not any persistent open - world MMOs with difficulty sliders or optional debuffs.
#2 ESO will not be an exception to this.
All of the exceptions to this practical explanation you have listed are all based on presumptions and assumptions. Nothing, and I mean NOTHING will ever be added/included into an MMO under the assumption that it will be used with responsibility and reasonable application. If it can be used/abused in order to negatively effect other players, it will be used to negatively effect other players. This is a general rule of online social activities that game developers long ago learned to keep in mind during MMO development. It would be like giving people a magic wand that turned weapons into cackling chickens, then said "ok, now play nice people, be sure to only use this on yourself".
In addition, the notion that your debuff/slider would not effect other players involved in these events based on how "easy" they are is completely subjective to your opinion on challenge level and would by default completely disregard the opinion of any other person involved in the event you joined.
And finally, your opinion of ease is still, and always has been, based on a tiny fraction of available content. Dynamic events like zone bosses are much more challenging elsewhere in the game than they are in any lvl 30 zone. Take your level 40 character into Wrothgar and solo a zone boss, then come back and tell us how easy it was for you. (Keep in mind that Wrothgar will scale your character to appropriate level with battle leveling mechanics, so this would NOT be the same thing as jumping ahead in leveled zones)
In summery, your entire concept is likely based on a long history of single player RPG game time rather than MMO experience, and as myself and several other people have mentioned is also based on the fact that you are intentionally avoiding progressing into more challenging content.
Here are some suggestions for you to do that won't take much time and will expose you to aspects of the game that will in turn inspire people to take you more seriously when you say the game is too easy:
#1 Take your character (at any level) into either one of the new scaled zones and participate in a world boss fight or public dungeon
#2 Take your character (at any level I believe) into Wrothgar and try the Maelstrom arena on both normal and veteran difficulty. This is a single player instance specifically designed to offer challenging single player content.
#3 Get your level 40 character to level 50 (AKA Vet rank 1) and que for ANY hard mode dungeon.
There are some players that still believe the game is too easy after experiencing all available content, but the overall majority of the player base finds the overall challenge level of the game to be just about right. If you experience some of the above mentioned content and still find the game too easy, then your opinion will be taken more seriously.Edited by Alphashado on March 10, 2016 7:44PM3 -
jkemmery✭✭✭✭@jkemmery we have both shown you proof of our arguments. I linked you a video from two years ago that that shows exactly what i was talking about from that time, and if i could have made a video then, thats more or less what it would have looked like. @Dahveed linked a video where you can see hes naked, and his menu bar shows his account has not unlocked cp. also, you can see that he is not oneshotting every enemy. The lvl 12 appears to happen on a crit. Can you share your sample size or post your own video? Because at this point you are just standing there with your fingers in your ears saying 'im not listening.'
I never said I was not listening. What I am saying is that I don't believe he is as light as he says in the video. Do you really want me to post a video of me running around in soul shriven gear NOT one shotting mobs? Just to prove to you that I can't do it? I asked how it was done, and you both said from stealth. Well, I can't do it with a nightblade from stealth. Do you want me to prove that to you somehow?
I saw him one shotting mobs with a bow. He's not hitting them all in the neck, as if arrow placement has anything to do with it. It's impossible for me to do that. I can one shot a lvl 3 wolf with my new lvl 5 NB when it crits, but that's about it. When I applied the CP I could one shot some things.
You want me to admit I was wrong? Or that I suck at playing the game? I honestly believe that what ever he is doing in the video he posted, he is NOT being 100% truthful about how he did it. I cannot replicate his actions. I admit I'm not the best player in the game, but I'm pretty sure I can sneak and hold the right mouse button down as well as anyone. You showed me a video of a guy killing 2 mobs with a heavy 2H attack from stealth. Awesome. There was no explanation of how it was done.
What the #$%^ do you want me to admit? That I was wrong? I don't believe I was. That he was being 100% honest about his ability to one shot mobs with his char? I honestly believe he wasn't. That I suck at the game? Well, I admit I'm not the best but I do have one VR16 so I must at least be average, but I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that there are many players far better than I am.
For scientific reasons, yes, I would like to see a sample size of similar opponents. Beasts, and an assortment of overland humanoids. The number one thing I would like to see is if the approximate damage done is the same when you do not one shot something.
Did I mistype and say neck? Sorry if that's the case. You are right, placement is irrelevant.
This is not about being good at the game. This is about you calling both of us liars. In response I have called you a liar, And that is another reason I'm asking for video proof. I do not want to label you a liar, but in this instance where we have both shown evidence of our claims, I would like to not hold that over you.
Every stealth attack back then (at the time of my video) was a guaranteed crit. Something clearly not shown in @Dahveed's video and your own experience. I consider this vast overkill, but in the old video description he says he has retreating maneuvers, rally, and a damage potion. I can say but not prove that this was not necessary. So we will have to leave it at that.
You have called us both liars. And we have shown you our proof. This is not nor has it ever been about skill. To us you are trying to push an anti cp message. And are stubbornly trying to prove it with just words. If you want to discuss cp, yes, it's not a great system. If you think I'm trying to put you down or call you bad, then I either have not presented myself well, or you are gravely misenterpreting me. I personally wish we still had the pre 1.6 system with no cp and with hybrids still a viable thing.
I am here and actively posting because in every discussion about difficulty since the cp system launch has always devolved to saying cp are op regardless of what the thread owner states or means with their post. Cp are just a mask for what some see as an overlying issue of the game. The same arguments were being had before we even knew they were concidering the cp system. This isn't about cp. And this thread is the least about cp that I've seen. Yet you want to make it about cp.
It's well and good that you are having fun and like where things are. But others aren't. In this specific instance the op is asking for some sort of debuff so that he can have fun. Not to change the game for you or others who are fine with where it is.
I don't believe I ever called you a liar. What I said was I am unable to replicate that. I probably said "I don't believe you", which you possibly equate to having been called a liar.
If it were possible to have a difficulty setting for an individual without it effecting others, then I have stated that I don't have a problem with it except that I'd prefer the devs spend time on something I see as more important.
I think that they have intentionally nerfed the game, because those of us who are relatively casual are more numerous than those who seek difficult challenges to keep them interested. However, if you can progress to veteran ranks to do the undaunted trials, there is a great deal of difficult content in this game.
Again, I'm not sure what you want me to admit. I don't believe I was wrong about anything. I don't belive I ever called YOU a liar. I have made my opinion of OP and his videos clear: I don't think he's being 100% honest about gear or buffs or something in order to achieve the kinds of quick kill rates he does. It's something I cannot come close to replicating at all. Yes, I can win almost every encounter with mobs on that low level nb, but it takes several hits. If there are more than one, then it's far more difficult to do, but I am not one shotting anything without applying my cp. Do you find this hard to believe? Try it yourself if you have a free char slot.
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Shunravi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@jkemmery we have both shown you proof of our arguments. I linked you a video from two years ago that that shows exactly what i was talking about from that time, and if i could have made a video then, thats more or less what it would have looked like. @Dahveed linked a video where you can see hes naked, and his menu bar shows his account has not unlocked cp. also, you can see that he is not oneshotting every enemy. The lvl 12 appears to happen on a crit. Can you share your sample size or post your own video? Because at this point you are just standing there with your fingers in your ears saying 'im not listening.'
I never said I was not listening. What I am saying is that I don't believe he is as light as he says in the video. Do you really want me to post a video of me running around in soul shriven gear NOT one shotting mobs? Just to prove to you that I can't do it? I asked how it was done, and you both said from stealth. Well, I can't do it with a nightblade from stealth. Do you want me to prove that to you somehow?
I saw him one shotting mobs with a bow. He's not hitting them all in the neck, as if arrow placement has anything to do with it. It's impossible for me to do that. I can one shot a lvl 3 wolf with my new lvl 5 NB when it crits, but that's about it. When I applied the CP I could one shot some things.
You want me to admit I was wrong? Or that I suck at playing the game? I honestly believe that what ever he is doing in the video he posted, he is NOT being 100% truthful about how he did it. I cannot replicate his actions. I admit I'm not the best player in the game, but I'm pretty sure I can sneak and hold the right mouse button down as well as anyone. You showed me a video of a guy killing 2 mobs with a heavy 2H attack from stealth. Awesome. There was no explanation of how it was done.
What the #$%^ do you want me to admit? That I was wrong? I don't believe I was. That he was being 100% honest about his ability to one shot mobs with his char? I honestly believe he wasn't. That I suck at the game? Well, I admit I'm not the best but I do have one VR16 so I must at least be average, but I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that there are many players far better than I am.
For scientific reasons, yes, I would like to see a sample size of similar opponents. Beasts, and an assortment of overland humanoids. The number one thing I would like to see is if the approximate damage done is the same when you do not one shot something.
Did I mistype and say neck? Sorry if that's the case. You are right, placement is irrelevant.
This is not about being good at the game. This is about you calling both of us liars. In response I have called you a liar, And that is another reason I'm asking for video proof. I do not want to label you a liar, but in this instance where we have both shown evidence of our claims, I would like to not hold that over you.
Every stealth attack back then (at the time of my video) was a guaranteed crit. Something clearly not shown in @Dahveed's video and your own experience. I consider this vast overkill, but in the old video description he says he has retreating maneuvers, rally, and a damage potion. I can say but not prove that this was not necessary. So we will have to leave it at that.
You have called us both liars. And we have shown you our proof. This is not nor has it ever been about skill. To us you are trying to push an anti cp message. And are stubbornly trying to prove it with just words. If you want to discuss cp, yes, it's not a great system. If you think I'm trying to put you down or call you bad, then I either have not presented myself well, or you are gravely misenterpreting me. I personally wish we still had the pre 1.6 system with no cp and with hybrids still a viable thing.
I am here and actively posting because in every discussion about difficulty since the cp system launch has always devolved to saying cp are op regardless of what the thread owner states or means with their post. Cp are just a mask for what some see as an overlying issue of the game. The same arguments were being had before we even knew they were concidering the cp system. This isn't about cp. And this thread is the least about cp that I've seen. Yet you want to make it about cp.
It's well and good that you are having fun and like where things are. But others aren't. In this specific instance the op is asking for some sort of debuff so that he can have fun. Not to change the game for you or others who are fine with where it is.
I don't believe I ever called you a liar. What I said was I am unable to replicate that. I probably said "I don't believe you", which you possibly equate to having been called a liar.
If it were possible to have a difficulty setting for an individual without it effecting others, then I have stated that I don't have a problem with it except that I'd prefer the devs spend time on something I see as more important.
I think that they have intentionally nerfed the game, because those of us who are relatively casual are more numerous than those who seek difficult challenges to keep them interested. However, if you can progress to veteran ranks to do the undaunted trials, there is a great deal of difficult content in this game.
Again, I'm not sure what you want me to admit. I don't believe I was wrong about anything. I don't belive I ever called YOU a liar. I have made my opinion of OP and his videos clear: I don't think he's being 100% honest about gear or buffs or something in order to achieve the kinds of quick kill rates he does. It's something I cannot come close to replicating at all. Yes, I can win almost every encounter with mobs on that low level nb, but it takes several hits. If there are more than one, then it's far more difficult to do, but I am not one shotting anything without applying my cp. Do you find this hard to believe? Try it yourself if you have a free char slot.
I tried it last night. On humanoid enemies I could bring them down to half on just the stealth bonus on my templar. Larger beast creatures would go down about a third hp, and mudcrabs and 'howling wolves' would go down in one shot in most instances. On crits, I would one shot.
You called bs on both of us. And because I agree and support his perspective, you calling him a liar is calling me a liar based on the arguments I've made. If you don't consider such proxy valid, then I apologise that I do.
They begrudgingly nerfed the game if their statement about nerfing vet zones is anything to go by. But whatever.
Someone should not have to plod through such tedium in order to reach a sparse few instances that account for such a tiny part of the game. He wants to have fun playing, not rush to endgame.
As for admitting something? Keep your opinions. I dont care despite my arguments. I just dont agree with you.Edited by Shunravi on March 10, 2016 8:40PMThis one has an eloquent and well thought out response to tha... Ooh sweetroll!0 -
jkemmery✭✭✭✭Alphashado wrote: »Alphashado wrote: »I've already expressed my opinion on how silly it is to judge the overall difficulty of a game while intentionally dwelling in easy content while refusing to progress into more difficult content.
So I won't expound further on that topic.
However, there is one important flawed aspect to the concept of a difficulty slider in a persistent, open-world MMO, and that is this:
Any type of dynamic or group related activity such as world bosses, Dolmen, public dungeons etc would/could have outcomes directly related to your slider/debuff. Each of these events are designed to be enjoyed by multiple players at the same time. (Hense MMO) Therefore, any debuff willingly placed on any player partaking in these events would directly effect every player participating in these events whether they like it or not. The notion that a debuff would only effect you is flawed due to the fact that your debuff would/could cause each of these events to fail or take longer. A single player using a debuff would essentially nerf every other person involved in any sort of dynamic event.
Now if there were some sort of way to deactivate such a debuff or difficulty slider the instant you hit/healed/took damage from any creature involved in these events... then it would be truly harmless and would effect nobody other than yourself. But such an expenditure of developmental resources would be unwise considering more important issues such as class balance and bugs/performance. Especially considering there is plenty of challenging content (some extremely challenging) already in the game if you simply invest the small effort required to find it.
I understand your points, but these open world dynamic events are so sparse and so underwhelming (and repetitive) as to be almost totally insignificant regarding character progression and balance.
So let's say that, normally, I'd arrive at a Dolmen to participate in breaking the chains by defeating the enemies. Upon my arrival, more creatures spawn and/or those creatures get stronger. (I believe this is how it works?) This compensates for the fact that they have an additional player.
Now if said additional player arrives with a debuff (i.e. he's an expert player who really knows what he's doing, finds the content too easily, and self-applied this debuff), you are saying this would negatively affect other players.
I get the argument... except that it doesn't really work when you truly think about it. Because this additional player already knows what he is doing. He is an expert deliberately seeking more challenge, and thus will still significantly contribute to victory - he will know how to use his abilities, cooldowns, dodge, min/max resources etc.
I understand you'd be afraid that some buffoonish noob with a debuff comes in, doesn't help at all and furthermore makes things more difficult for others... just ends up being a burden, disrupting balance and thus making the game unfair. But this simply isn't the case. A player with a debuff is almost by default a player who knows exactly what he is doing and how to contribute.
And, finally, I just want to add that these group events are such a sad joke to witness in terms of "difficulty" that it is almost not even worth mentioning the word "balance" when referring to them. The only problem I've EVER had when participating in the closing of a dolmen gate is not being able to attack the creatures before they die, because other players kill them too quickly. They are a complete joke, so you'll pardon me for not taking words like "balance" too seriously when talking about them.
However I do appreciate the thought you've put into your post. It's an interesting point, but I don't think it's nearly as important as you would think.... and, as I've said in a different reply somewhere in this thread:
Part of the reason why MMOs have become so stale is that the devs are too worried about coddling players with perfect, smooth balance (i.e. easy gameplay), and are thus unable to provide spontaneous, interesting, dangerous and unpredictable open worlds. Nobody has the balls to implement something like this because they worry, worry, worry about everything.
This translates into stale, repetitive, easy gameplay in the vast majority of the open world, and the MMO just looks like yet another boring copy/paste of every generic fetch quest MMO on the market. Which is precisely why people like myself cannot bring themselves to play them.
Whether you choose to accept it or not, I have listed and explained why:
#1 There are not any persistent open - world MMOs with difficulty sliders or optional debuffs.
#2 ESO will not be an exception to this.
All of the exceptions to this practical explanation you have listed are all based on presumptions and assumptions. Nothing, and I mean NOTHING will ever be added/included into an MMO under the assumption that it will be used with responsibility and reasonable application. If it can be used/abused in order to negatively effect other players, it will be used to negatively effect other players. This is a general rule of online social activities that game developers long ago learned to keep in mind during MMO development. It would be like giving people a magic wand that turned weapons into cackling chickens, then said "ok, now play nice people, be sure to only use this on yourself".
In addition, the notion that your debuff/slider would not effect other players involved in these events based on how "easy" they are is completely subjective to your opinion on challenge level and would by default completely disregard the opinion of any other person involved in the event you joined.
And finally, your opinion of ease is still, and always has been, based on a tiny fraction of available content. Dynamic events like zone bosses are much more challenging elsewhere in the game than they are in any lvl 30 zone. Take your level 40 character into Wrothgar and solo a zone boss, then come back and tell us how easy it was for you. (Keep in mind that Wrothgar will scale your character to appropriate level with battle leveling mechanics, so this would NOT be the same thing as jumping ahead in leveled zones)
In summery, your entire concept is likely based on a long history of single player RPG game time rather than MMO experience, and as myself and several other people have mentioned is also based on the fact that you are intentionally avoiding progressing into more challenging content.
Here are some suggestions for you to do that won't take much time and will expose you aspects of the game that will in turn inspire people to take you more seriously when you say the game is too easy:
#1 Take your character (at any level) into either one of the new scaled zones and participate in a world boss fight or public dungeon
#2 Take your character (at any level I believe) into Wrothgar and try the Maelstrom arena on both normal and veteran difficulty. This is a single player instance specifically designed to offer challenging single player content.
#3 Get your level 40 character to level 50 (AKA Vet rank 1) and que for ANY hard mode dungeon.
There are some players that still believe the game is too easy after experiencing all available content, but the overall majority of the player base finds the overall challenge level of the game to be just about right. If you experience some of the above mentioned content and still find the game too easy, then your opinion will be taken more seriously.@jkemmery we have both shown you proof of our arguments. I linked you a video from two years ago that that shows exactly what i was talking about from that time, and if i could have made a video then, thats more or less what it would have looked like. @Dahveed linked a video where you can see hes naked, and his menu bar shows his account has not unlocked cp. also, you can see that he is not oneshotting every enemy. The lvl 12 appears to happen on a crit. Can you share your sample size or post your own video? Because at this point you are just standing there with your fingers in your ears saying 'im not listening.'
I never said I was not listening. What I am saying is that I don't believe he is as light as he says in the video. Do you really want me to post a video of me running around in soul shriven gear NOT one shotting mobs? Just to prove to you that I can't do it? I asked how it was done, and you both said from stealth. Well, I can't do it with a nightblade from stealth. Do you want me to prove that to you somehow?
I saw him one shotting mobs with a bow. He's not hitting them all in the neck, as if arrow placement has anything to do with it. It's impossible for me to do that. I can one shot a lvl 3 wolf with my new lvl 5 NB when it crits, but that's about it. When I applied the CP I could one shot some things.
You want me to admit I was wrong? Or that I suck at playing the game? I honestly believe that what ever he is doing in the video he posted, he is NOT being 100% truthful about how he did it. I cannot replicate his actions. I admit I'm not the best player in the game, but I'm pretty sure I can sneak and hold the right mouse button down as well as anyone. You showed me a video of a guy killing 2 mobs with a heavy 2H attack from stealth. Awesome. There was no explanation of how it was done.
What the #$%^ do you want me to admit? That I was wrong? I don't believe I was. That he was being 100% honest about his ability to one shot mobs with his char? I honestly believe he wasn't. That I suck at the game? Well, I admit I'm not the best but I do have one VR16 so I must at least be average, but I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that there are many players far better than I am.
For scientific reasons, yes, I would like to see a sample size of similar opponents. Beasts, and an assortment of overland humanoids. The number one thing I would like to see is if the approximate damage done is the same when you do not one shot something.
Did I mistype and say neck? Sorry if that's the case. You are right, placement is irrelevant.
This is not about being good at the game. This is about you calling both of us liars. In response I have called you a liar, And that is another reason I'm asking for video proof. I do not want to label you a liar, but in this instance where we have both shown evidence of our claims, I would like to not hold that over you.
Every stealth attack back then (at the time of my video) was a guaranteed crit. Something clearly not shown in @Dahveed's video and your own experience. I consider this vast overkill, but in the old video description he says he has retreating maneuvers, rally, and a damage potion. I can say but not prove that this was not necessary. So we will have to leave it at that.
You have called us both liars. And we have shown you our proof. This is not nor has it ever been about skill. To us you are trying to push an anti cp message. And are stubbornly trying to prove it with just words. If you want to discuss cp, yes, it's not a great system. If you think I'm trying to put you down or call you bad, then I either have not presented myself well, or you are gravely misenterpreting me. I personally wish we still had the pre 1.6 system with no cp and with hybrids still a viable thing.
I am here and actively posting because in every discussion about difficulty since the cp system launch has always devolved to saying cp are op regardless of what the thread owner states or means with their post. Cp are just a mask for what some see as an overlying issue of the game. The same arguments were being had before we even knew they were concidering the cp system. This isn't about cp. And this thread is the least about cp that I've seen. Yet you want to make it about cp.
It's well and good that you are having fun and like where things are. But others aren't. In this specific instance the op is asking for some sort of debuff so that he can have fun. Not to change the game for you or others who are fine with where it is.
I don't believe I ever called you a liar. What I said was I am unable to replicate that. I probably said "I don't believe you", which you possibly equate to having been called a liar.
If it were possible to have a difficulty setting for an individual without it effecting others, then I have stated that I don't have a problem with it except that I'd prefer the devs spend time on something I see as more important.
I think that they have intentionally nerfed the game, because those of us who are relatively casual are more numerous than those who seek difficult challenges to keep them interested. However, if you can progress to veteran ranks to do the undaunted trials, there is a great deal of difficult content in this game.
Again, I'm not sure what you want me to admit. I don't believe I was wrong about anything. I don't belive I ever called YOU a liar. I have made my opinion of OP and his videos clear: I don't think he's being 100% honest about gear or buffs or something in order to achieve the kinds of quick kill rates he does. It's something I cannot come close to replicating at all. Yes, I can win almost every encounter with mobs on that low level nb, but it takes several hits. If there are more than one, then it's far more difficult to do, but I am not one shotting anything without applying my cp. Do you find this hard to believe? Try it yourself if you have a free char slot.
I tried it last night. On humanoid enemies I could bring them down to half on just the stealth bonus on my templar. Larger beast creatures would go down about a third hp, and mudcrabs and 'howling wolves' would go down in one shot in most instances. On crits, I would one shot.
You called bs on both of us. And because I agree and support his perspective, you calling him a liar is calling me a liar based on the arguments I've made. If you don't consider such proxy valid, then I apologise that I do.
They begrudgingly nerfed the game if their statement about nerfing vet zones is anything to go by. But whatever.
Someone should not have to plod through such tedium in order to reach a sparse few instances that account for such a tiny part of the game. He wants to have fun playing, not rush to endgame.
As for admitting something? Keep your opinions. I dont care despite my arguments. I just dont agree with you.
Then we can agree to disagree, and that's fine. I think ZOS would do whatever they felt was necessary in order to maximize the appeal of the game, add new subscribers and keep the subscribers that they have. I'm pretty positive that is the intention. On the whole I enjoy the game, and, admittedly, I am NOT an MMO fan in general, and I came to the Elder Scrolls franchise only because I bought an X-box 360 that came with a free copy of Skyrim that literally collected dust until I was bored one Saturday and said "what the heck". Then I got hooked. I like that you can basically solo your way through most of the content in this game. I think most Elder Scrolls fans are coming from a solo player game background. I think most of them (us) are looking for the same kind of escapism we got from Skyrim and earlier games, and are not looking for a game that requires "l33t 9@m3r 5killz" to enjoy.3 -
Shunravi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Alphashado wrote: »Alphashado wrote: »I've already expressed my opinion on how silly it is to judge the overall difficulty of a game while intentionally dwelling in easy content while refusing to progress into more difficult content.
So I won't expound further on that topic.
However, there is one important flawed aspect to the concept of a difficulty slider in a persistent, open-world MMO, and that is this:
Any type of dynamic or group related activity such as world bosses, Dolmen, public dungeons etc would/could have outcomes directly related to your slider/debuff. Each of these events are designed to be enjoyed by multiple players at the same time. (Hense MMO) Therefore, any debuff willingly placed on any player partaking in these events would directly effect every player participating in these events whether they like it or not. The notion that a debuff would only effect you is flawed due to the fact that your debuff would/could cause each of these events to fail or take longer. A single player using a debuff would essentially nerf every other person involved in any sort of dynamic event.
Now if there were some sort of way to deactivate such a debuff or difficulty slider the instant you hit/healed/took damage from any creature involved in these events... then it would be truly harmless and would effect nobody other than yourself. But such an expenditure of developmental resources would be unwise considering more important issues such as class balance and bugs/performance. Especially considering there is plenty of challenging content (some extremely challenging) already in the game if you simply invest the small effort required to find it.
I understand your points, but these open world dynamic events are so sparse and so underwhelming (and repetitive) as to be almost totally insignificant regarding character progression and balance.
So let's say that, normally, I'd arrive at a Dolmen to participate in breaking the chains by defeating the enemies. Upon my arrival, more creatures spawn and/or those creatures get stronger. (I believe this is how it works?) This compensates for the fact that they have an additional player.
Now if said additional player arrives with a debuff (i.e. he's an expert player who really knows what he's doing, finds the content too easily, and self-applied this debuff), you are saying this would negatively affect other players.
I get the argument... except that it doesn't really work when you truly think about it. Because this additional player already knows what he is doing. He is an expert deliberately seeking more challenge, and thus will still significantly contribute to victory - he will know how to use his abilities, cooldowns, dodge, min/max resources etc.
I understand you'd be afraid that some buffoonish noob with a debuff comes in, doesn't help at all and furthermore makes things more difficult for others... just ends up being a burden, disrupting balance and thus making the game unfair. But this simply isn't the case. A player with a debuff is almost by default a player who knows exactly what he is doing and how to contribute.
And, finally, I just want to add that these group events are such a sad joke to witness in terms of "difficulty" that it is almost not even worth mentioning the word "balance" when referring to them. The only problem I've EVER had when participating in the closing of a dolmen gate is not being able to attack the creatures before they die, because other players kill them too quickly. They are a complete joke, so you'll pardon me for not taking words like "balance" too seriously when talking about them.
However I do appreciate the thought you've put into your post. It's an interesting point, but I don't think it's nearly as important as you would think.... and, as I've said in a different reply somewhere in this thread:
Part of the reason why MMOs have become so stale is that the devs are too worried about coddling players with perfect, smooth balance (i.e. easy gameplay), and are thus unable to provide spontaneous, interesting, dangerous and unpredictable open worlds. Nobody has the balls to implement something like this because they worry, worry, worry about everything.
This translates into stale, repetitive, easy gameplay in the vast majority of the open world, and the MMO just looks like yet another boring copy/paste of every generic fetch quest MMO on the market. Which is precisely why people like myself cannot bring themselves to play them.
Whether you choose to accept it or not, I have listed and explained why:
#1 There are not any persistent open - world MMOs with difficulty sliders or optional debuffs.
#2 ESO will not be an exception to this.
All of the exceptions to this practical explanation you have listed are all based on presumptions and assumptions. Nothing, and I mean NOTHING will ever be added/included into an MMO under the assumption that it will be used with responsibility and reasonable application. If it can be used/abused in order to negatively effect other players, it will be used to negatively effect other players. This is a general rule of online social activities that game developers long ago learned to keep in mind during MMO development. It would be like giving people a magic wand that turned weapons into cackling chickens, then said "ok, now play nice people, be sure to only use this on yourself".
In addition, the notion that your debuff/slider would not effect other players involved in these events based on how "easy" they are is completely subjective to your opinion on challenge level and would by default completely disregard the opinion of any other person involved in the event you joined.
And finally, your opinion of ease is still, and always has been, based on a tiny fraction of available content. Dynamic events like zone bosses are much more challenging elsewhere in the game than they are in any lvl 30 zone. Take your level 40 character into Wrothgar and solo a zone boss, then come back and tell us how easy it was for you. (Keep in mind that Wrothgar will scale your character to appropriate level with battle leveling mechanics, so this would NOT be the same thing as jumping ahead in leveled zones)
In summery, your entire concept is likely based on a long history of single player RPG game time rather than MMO experience, and as myself and several other people have mentioned is also based on the fact that you are intentionally avoiding progressing into more challenging content.
Here are some suggestions for you to do that won't take much time and will expose you aspects of the game that will in turn inspire people to take you more seriously when you say the game is too easy:
#1 Take your character (at any level) into either one of the new scaled zones and participate in a world boss fight or public dungeon
#2 Take your character (at any level I believe) into Wrothgar and try the Maelstrom arena on both normal and veteran difficulty. This is a single player instance specifically designed to offer challenging single player content.
#3 Get your level 40 character to level 50 (AKA Vet rank 1) and que for ANY hard mode dungeon.
There are some players that still believe the game is too easy after experiencing all available content, but the overall majority of the player base finds the overall challenge level of the game to be just about right. If you experience some of the above mentioned content and still find the game too easy, then your opinion will be taken more seriously.@jkemmery we have both shown you proof of our arguments. I linked you a video from two years ago that that shows exactly what i was talking about from that time, and if i could have made a video then, thats more or less what it would have looked like. @Dahveed linked a video where you can see hes naked, and his menu bar shows his account has not unlocked cp. also, you can see that he is not oneshotting every enemy. The lvl 12 appears to happen on a crit. Can you share your sample size or post your own video? Because at this point you are just standing there with your fingers in your ears saying 'im not listening.'
I never said I was not listening. What I am saying is that I don't believe he is as light as he says in the video. Do you really want me to post a video of me running around in soul shriven gear NOT one shotting mobs? Just to prove to you that I can't do it? I asked how it was done, and you both said from stealth. Well, I can't do it with a nightblade from stealth. Do you want me to prove that to you somehow?
I saw him one shotting mobs with a bow. He's not hitting them all in the neck, as if arrow placement has anything to do with it. It's impossible for me to do that. I can one shot a lvl 3 wolf with my new lvl 5 NB when it crits, but that's about it. When I applied the CP I could one shot some things.
You want me to admit I was wrong? Or that I suck at playing the game? I honestly believe that what ever he is doing in the video he posted, he is NOT being 100% truthful about how he did it. I cannot replicate his actions. I admit I'm not the best player in the game, but I'm pretty sure I can sneak and hold the right mouse button down as well as anyone. You showed me a video of a guy killing 2 mobs with a heavy 2H attack from stealth. Awesome. There was no explanation of how it was done.
What the #$%^ do you want me to admit? That I was wrong? I don't believe I was. That he was being 100% honest about his ability to one shot mobs with his char? I honestly believe he wasn't. That I suck at the game? Well, I admit I'm not the best but I do have one VR16 so I must at least be average, but I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that there are many players far better than I am.
For scientific reasons, yes, I would like to see a sample size of similar opponents. Beasts, and an assortment of overland humanoids. The number one thing I would like to see is if the approximate damage done is the same when you do not one shot something.
Did I mistype and say neck? Sorry if that's the case. You are right, placement is irrelevant.
This is not about being good at the game. This is about you calling both of us liars. In response I have called you a liar, And that is another reason I'm asking for video proof. I do not want to label you a liar, but in this instance where we have both shown evidence of our claims, I would like to not hold that over you.
Every stealth attack back then (at the time of my video) was a guaranteed crit. Something clearly not shown in @Dahveed's video and your own experience. I consider this vast overkill, but in the old video description he says he has retreating maneuvers, rally, and a damage potion. I can say but not prove that this was not necessary. So we will have to leave it at that.
You have called us both liars. And we have shown you our proof. This is not nor has it ever been about skill. To us you are trying to push an anti cp message. And are stubbornly trying to prove it with just words. If you want to discuss cp, yes, it's not a great system. If you think I'm trying to put you down or call you bad, then I either have not presented myself well, or you are gravely misenterpreting me. I personally wish we still had the pre 1.6 system with no cp and with hybrids still a viable thing.
I am here and actively posting because in every discussion about difficulty since the cp system launch has always devolved to saying cp are op regardless of what the thread owner states or means with their post. Cp are just a mask for what some see as an overlying issue of the game. The same arguments were being had before we even knew they were concidering the cp system. This isn't about cp. And this thread is the least about cp that I've seen. Yet you want to make it about cp.
It's well and good that you are having fun and like where things are. But others aren't. In this specific instance the op is asking for some sort of debuff so that he can have fun. Not to change the game for you or others who are fine with where it is.
I don't believe I ever called you a liar. What I said was I am unable to replicate that. I probably said "I don't believe you", which you possibly equate to having been called a liar.
If it were possible to have a difficulty setting for an individual without it effecting others, then I have stated that I don't have a problem with it except that I'd prefer the devs spend time on something I see as more important.
I think that they have intentionally nerfed the game, because those of us who are relatively casual are more numerous than those who seek difficult challenges to keep them interested. However, if you can progress to veteran ranks to do the undaunted trials, there is a great deal of difficult content in this game.
Again, I'm not sure what you want me to admit. I don't believe I was wrong about anything. I don't belive I ever called YOU a liar. I have made my opinion of OP and his videos clear: I don't think he's being 100% honest about gear or buffs or something in order to achieve the kinds of quick kill rates he does. It's something I cannot come close to replicating at all. Yes, I can win almost every encounter with mobs on that low level nb, but it takes several hits. If there are more than one, then it's far more difficult to do, but I am not one shotting anything without applying my cp. Do you find this hard to believe? Try it yourself if you have a free char slot.
I tried it last night. On humanoid enemies I could bring them down to half on just the stealth bonus on my templar. Larger beast creatures would go down about a third hp, and mudcrabs and 'howling wolves' would go down in one shot in most instances. On crits, I would one shot.
You called bs on both of us. And because I agree and support his perspective, you calling him a liar is calling me a liar based on the arguments I've made. If you don't consider such proxy valid, then I apologise that I do.
They begrudgingly nerfed the game if their statement about nerfing vet zones is anything to go by. But whatever.
Someone should not have to plod through such tedium in order to reach a sparse few instances that account for such a tiny part of the game. He wants to have fun playing, not rush to endgame.
As for admitting something? Keep your opinions. I dont care despite my arguments. I just dont agree with you.
Then we can agree to disagree, and that's fine. I think ZOS would do whatever they felt was necessary in order to maximize the appeal of the game, add new subscribers and keep the subscribers that they have. I'm pretty positive that is the intention. On the whole I enjoy the game, and, admittedly, I am NOT an MMO fan in general, and I came to the Elder Scrolls franchise only because I bought an X-box 360 that came with a free copy of Skyrim that literally collected dust until I was bored one Saturday and said "what the heck". Then I got hooked. I like that you can basically solo your way through most of the content in this game. I think most Elder Scrolls fans are coming from a solo player game background. I think most of them (us) are looking for the same kind of escapism we got from Skyrim and earlier games, and are not looking for a game that requires "l33t 9@m3r 5killz" to enjoy.
Ill just put forth a closing argument, as im sure we are both well and done with this.
Im also here because its elder scrolls. However, I am a good deal more oldschool than skyrim. I came here to rollplay a khajiit vampiric mage. Sure, i have played other mmos before. Not gona deny that. But TES is why im here, and incidentally why im still here. As someone who was used to mmo cycles, nerfing is a natural thing. But with how casually i though i was playing it devastated me when the hammer kept striking. So i rushed a bit to stay ahaid of it.
One thing i blame is them taking the starter islands off the front of the chain. Sure people asked for it in beta, but thats because in beta you would remake a character each cycle and be locked in the starters till completion. So i feel many missed an entire zone where things were much more suited to learning, and encountered stuff they werent strictly ready for and asked for nerfs. Anyways im rambling.
We arent the only ones here because of TES, the op is too.
This one has an eloquent and well thought out response to tha... Ooh sweetroll!1 -
Meanma✭✭✭Well, going to speak as someone brand new to the game playing a brand new character that has only recently reached level twenty. Don't have champion points and don't use potions much because I don't find enough herbs to keep restocking my potion supplies. I also don't have the gold to buy either herbs or the potions themselves. My gear is an assortment of mostly green quest rewards. My class is nightblade. Weapons used are healing staff and destruction staff. Gear is light for more magicka and better regeneration. The skill line I used within the nightblade class is the Shadow one.
Not only do I not one-shot mobs, I actually die if I accidentally pull more than two. Elite quest objectives are defeated through sheer patience as I keep healing myself while slowly whittling down the health of my enemy. Zone bosses (skulls on the map) and dolmens? Forget soloing those. I rely on other players, often someone from the other faction leveling their veteran rank, to come along.
Where do people come across these monsters that do no damage and keel over from a single hit?2 -
Soleya✭✭✭✭✭
✭Well, going to speak as someone brand new to the game playing a brand new character that has only recently reached level twenty. Don't have champion points and don't use potions much because I don't find enough herbs to keep restocking my potion supplies. I also don't have the gold to buy either herbs or the potions themselves. My gear is an assortment of mostly green quest rewards. My class is nightblade. Weapons used are healing staff and destruction staff. Gear is light for more magicka and better regeneration. The skill line I used within the nightblade class is the Shadow one.
Not only do I not one-shot mobs, I actually die if I accidentally pull more than two. Elite quest objectives are defeated through sheer patience as I keep healing myself while slowly whittling down the health of my enemy. Zone bosses (skulls on the map) and dolmens? Forget soloing those. I rely on other players, often someone from the other faction leveling their veteran rank, to come along.
Where do people come across these monsters that do no damage and keel over from a single hit?
They are using a stamina nightblade, using stealth. With passives, the critical from stealth does a ton damage. You can't get sneak attack bonuses with staves.
Just a comparison, doing a suprise attack on a mob (not stealth) does about 12k damage on my V16. But from stealth it does about 38k.Edited by Soleya on March 10, 2016 10:30PM1 -
Dahveed✭✭✭✭✭
✭Alphashado wrote: »Alphashado wrote: »I've already expressed my opinion on how silly it is to judge the overall difficulty of a game while intentionally dwelling in easy content while refusing to progress into more difficult content.
So I won't expound further on that topic.
However, there is one important flawed aspect to the concept of a difficulty slider in a persistent, open-world MMO, and that is this:
Any type of dynamic or group related activity such as world bosses, Dolmen, public dungeons etc would/could have outcomes directly related to your slider/debuff. Each of these events are designed to be enjoyed by multiple players at the same time. (Hense MMO) Therefore, any debuff willingly placed on any player partaking in these events would directly effect every player participating in these events whether they like it or not. The notion that a debuff would only effect you is flawed due to the fact that your debuff would/could cause each of these events to fail or take longer. A single player using a debuff would essentially nerf every other person involved in any sort of dynamic event.
Now if there were some sort of way to deactivate such a debuff or difficulty slider the instant you hit/healed/took damage from any creature involved in these events... then it would be truly harmless and would effect nobody other than yourself. But such an expenditure of developmental resources would be unwise considering more important issues such as class balance and bugs/performance. Especially considering there is plenty of challenging content (some extremely challenging) already in the game if you simply invest the small effort required to find it.
I understand your points, but these open world dynamic events are so sparse and so underwhelming (and repetitive) as to be almost totally insignificant regarding character progression and balance.
So let's say that, normally, I'd arrive at a Dolmen to participate in breaking the chains by defeating the enemies. Upon my arrival, more creatures spawn and/or those creatures get stronger. (I believe this is how it works?) This compensates for the fact that they have an additional player.
Now if said additional player arrives with a debuff (i.e. he's an expert player who really knows what he's doing, finds the content too easily, and self-applied this debuff), you are saying this would negatively affect other players.
I get the argument... except that it doesn't really work when you truly think about it. Because this additional player already knows what he is doing. He is an expert deliberately seeking more challenge, and thus will still significantly contribute to victory - he will know how to use his abilities, cooldowns, dodge, min/max resources etc.
I understand you'd be afraid that some buffoonish noob with a debuff comes in, doesn't help at all and furthermore makes things more difficult for others... just ends up being a burden, disrupting balance and thus making the game unfair. But this simply isn't the case. A player with a debuff is almost by default a player who knows exactly what he is doing and how to contribute.
And, finally, I just want to add that these group events are such a sad joke to witness in terms of "difficulty" that it is almost not even worth mentioning the word "balance" when referring to them. The only problem I've EVER had when participating in the closing of a dolmen gate is not being able to attack the creatures before they die, because other players kill them too quickly. They are a complete joke, so you'll pardon me for not taking words like "balance" too seriously when talking about them.
However I do appreciate the thought you've put into your post. It's an interesting point, but I don't think it's nearly as important as you would think.... and, as I've said in a different reply somewhere in this thread:
Part of the reason why MMOs have become so stale is that the devs are too worried about coddling players with perfect, smooth balance (i.e. easy gameplay), and are thus unable to provide spontaneous, interesting, dangerous and unpredictable open worlds. Nobody has the balls to implement something like this because they worry, worry, worry about everything.
This translates into stale, repetitive, easy gameplay in the vast majority of the open world, and the MMO just looks like yet another boring copy/paste of every generic fetch quest MMO on the market. Which is precisely why people like myself cannot bring themselves to play them.
Whether you choose to accept it or not, I have listed and explained why:
#1 There are not any persistent open - world MMOs with difficulty sliders or optional debuffs.
#2 ESO will not be an exception to this.
All of the exceptions to this practical explanation you have listed are all based on presumptions and assumptions. Nothing, and I mean NOTHING will ever be added/included into an MMO under the assumption that it will be used with responsibility and reasonable application. If it can be used/abused in order to negatively effect other players, it will be used to negatively effect other players. This is a general rule of online social activities that game developers long ago learned to keep in mind during MMO development. It would be like giving people a magic wand that turned weapons into cackling chickens, then said "ok, now play nice people, be sure to only use this on yourself".
In addition, the notion that your debuff/slider would not effect other players involved in these events based on how "easy" they are is completely subjective to your opinion on challenge level and would by default completely disregard the opinion of any other person involved in the event you joined.
And finally, your opinion of ease is still, and always has been, based on a tiny fraction of available content. Dynamic events like zone bosses are much more challenging elsewhere in the game than they are in any lvl 30 zone. Take your level 40 character into Wrothgar and solo a zone boss, then come back and tell us how easy it was for you. (Keep in mind that Wrothgar will scale your character to appropriate level with battle leveling mechanics, so this would NOT be the same thing as jumping ahead in leveled zones)
In summery, your entire concept is likely based on a long history of single player RPG game time rather than MMO experience, and as myself and several other people have mentioned is also based on the fact that you are intentionally avoiding progressing into more challenging content.
Here are some suggestions for you to do that won't take much time and will expose you to aspects of the game that will in turn inspire people to take you more seriously when you say the game is too easy:
#1 Take your character (at any level) into either one of the new scaled zones and participate in a world boss fight or public dungeon
#2 Take your character (at any level I believe) into Wrothgar and try the Maelstrom arena on both normal and veteran difficulty. This is a single player instance specifically designed to offer challenging single player content.
#3 Get your level 40 character to level 50 (AKA Vet rank 1) and que for ANY hard mode dungeon.
There are some players that still believe the game is too easy after experiencing all available content, but the overall majority of the player base finds the overall challenge level of the game to be just about right. If you experience some of the above mentioned content and still find the game too easy, then your opinion will be taken more seriously.
I really appreciate how consistent you are, and I appreciate the fact that out of so many trolls here you attempt to make coherent points. Thank you.
I really do understand what you are saying. I get your perspective. But I don't think you get mine.
Basically what it boils down to, is that you are telling me this: in order to truly appreciate ESO, I have to do the exact same thing that EVERY. SINGLE. MMO. on the entire market offers: Grind to end game then repeat dungeons/trials/raids/whatever the end-game content is in order to find a "challenge".
I understand how this is the case in every other MMO. The norm.
But ESO wasn't supposed to be every other MMO. it was supposed to be Elder Scrolls. I don't play MMOs precisely because I find this kind of bland, repetitive "dungeon grinding" gameplay is abominable.
So you might say: Fine, then. MMOs aren't for you, and ESO is an MMO, therefore ESO is not for you. Keep your money and leave.
Which is *kind of* what I'm doing. I haven't done any of the DLC endgame stuff precisely because I don't want to spend my hard-earned money on activities I COULD LITERALLY DO IN EVERY SINGLE GAME ON THE FREAKING PLANET.
I was truly hoping (and based on these threads I keep making, I still AM hoping) that Elder Scrolls would be (will be) different. That the same exciting "Elder Scrollsy" feeling of not knowing what you'll find in the open world awaits you every time you play.
In order to find out how great Elder Scrolls is, I have to just race through the ONLY kind of content that I personally would find interesting - the questing, the reading, the lore, the stories, the voice acting, the characters - in order to just do bosses, do raids, do challenges, do whatever "endgame" grind crap that - sorry to repeat myself in caps again - THAT EXISTS IN EVERY. FREAKING. MMO. ON. THE. PLANET.
Why would I sink money into ESO when I could do all these (boring) things for free elsewhere?
I'm trying to be as respectful in my disagreement as possible here, because, like I said, out of all the people here who have disagreed with me so far you've been the most articulate and have made the most sense. And you're also (I think) representative of EXACTLY the kind of "endgame or gtfo" mentality that plagues all MMOs: leveling, by definition, CANNOT be fun, it's not SUPPOSED to be fun.. it's just supposed to be something that you just "do" because everyone "just does" it as fast as possible.
But that shouldn't be what ES games are about.
You may be right, it may be that I am completely wasting my time and energy in posts like this, because my idea will never happen.
But I can still hope that I am not.2