Are Templars actually better now??

Speely · March 2016

From a PvE perspective, yes. More specifically, as a player eho solos a lot, Major Mending + Restoring Focus means that the Sweeps heal reduction is not only not noticeable, but it was performing perhaps better overall. Last night I tried to solo Darkshade on normal on a lark for the pledge and only got stopped on the Sentinel since I couldn't be in enough places at once and had to give up because the battle went on for a good half hour. Maybe not a big deal for some, but I've never been able to do that before.

Healing a group is also easier, I noticed. Dat MMending.

Ampnode · March 2016

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

You have to specify: are you talking PvE or PvP?

PvE was never the problem. Templars have always found a role in groups as the best healers and were doing ok.

In PvP, Templars are the worst class. You can run with a good group and be a healer; if you do anything other than that, you will be subpar. Breath of Life is now less reliable as a self heal (only 2 targets rather than 3 means less of a chance of healing yourself rather than some random guy nearby), you have to stand in 'your house' to get your full benefits of many skills, our mitigation has been in the toilet since the Battle Spirit nerf to shields (Blazing Shield is terrible now), and on top of that we have no mobility/escape, which means you are a sitting duck. The new update did nothing to address those issues.

So you really have to ask: PvE or PvP? In PvE we are fine; in PvP, we are the absolute worst, right alongside Stamina Sorcerers.

Stop. Templars are far from being the worst now. Stamina templars, sure. Magicka templars, no. They're borderline over the top. PvP is the definition of cancer with all the Dark Flares, undodgeable Radiants, and Prox Dets that deal immense damage. 47% of my deaths in the past few days are from Radiants just being spammed on me and not being able to do a thing about it. 1.6 here we are again. Also had a 15.2K Purifying Light go off on me one time, but that was my fault for tanking damage and not blocking it. This FoTM business is seriously killing PvP. But hey, you guys wanted to be crazy OP, right? Your wish has been granted.

AfkNinja · March 2016

Ampnode wrote: »

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

You have to specify: are you talking PvE or PvP?

PvE was never the problem. Templars have always found a role in groups as the best healers and were doing ok.

In PvP, Templars are the worst class. You can run with a good group and be a healer; if you do anything other than that, you will be subpar. Breath of Life is now less reliable as a self heal (only 2 targets rather than 3 means less of a chance of healing yourself rather than some random guy nearby), you have to stand in 'your house' to get your full benefits of many skills, our mitigation has been in the toilet since the Battle Spirit nerf to shields (Blazing Shield is terrible now), and on top of that we have no mobility/escape, which means you are a sitting duck. The new update did nothing to address those issues.

So you really have to ask: PvE or PvP? In PvE we are fine; in PvP, we are the absolute worst, right alongside Stamina Sorcerers.

Stop. Templars are far from being the worst now. Stamina templars, sure. Magicka templars, no. They're borderline over the top. PvP is the definition of cancer with all the Dark Flares, undodgeable Radiants, and Prox Dets that deal immense damage. 47% of my deaths in the past few days are from Radiants just being spammed on me and not being able to do a thing about it. 1.6 here we are again. Also had a 15.2K Purifying Light go off on me one time, but that was my fault for tanking damage and not blocking it. This FoTM business is seriously killing PvP. But hey, you guys wanted to be crazy OP, right? Your wish has been granted.

Radiant Destruction was not buffed this patch but the CP changes affected it. Dark Flare was the only skill buffed with damage and it was a change none of us asked for. I don't think any of us wanted Templar to be a glass cannon DPS but that's what ZOS gave us. Most of us were asking for bug fixes and defensive utility buffs.

Edit: I play Stamplar, major mending was our only change. (And CP resistance changes.)

Hiero_Glyph · March 2016

AfkNinja wrote: »

Ampnode wrote: »

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

You have to specify: are you talking PvE or PvP?

PvE was never the problem. Templars have always found a role in groups as the best healers and were doing ok.

In PvP, Templars are the worst class. You can run with a good group and be a healer; if you do anything other than that, you will be subpar. Breath of Life is now less reliable as a self heal (only 2 targets rather than 3 means less of a chance of healing yourself rather than some random guy nearby), you have to stand in 'your house' to get your full benefits of many skills, our mitigation has been in the toilet since the Battle Spirit nerf to shields (Blazing Shield is terrible now), and on top of that we have no mobility/escape, which means you are a sitting duck. The new update did nothing to address those issues.

So you really have to ask: PvE or PvP? In PvE we are fine; in PvP, we are the absolute worst, right alongside Stamina Sorcerers.

Stop. Templars are far from being the worst now. Stamina templars, sure. Magicka templars, no. They're borderline over the top. PvP is the definition of cancer with all the Dark Flares, undodgeable Radiants, and Prox Dets that deal immense damage. 47% of my deaths in the past few days are from Radiants just being spammed on me and not being able to do a thing about it. 1.6 here we are again. Also had a 15.2K Purifying Light go off on me one time, but that was my fault for tanking damage and not blocking it. This FoTM business is seriously killing PvP. But hey, you guys wanted to be crazy OP, right? Your wish has been granted.

Radiant Destruction was not buffed this patch but the CP changes affected it. Dark Flare was the only skill buffed with damage and it was a change none of us asked for. I don't think any of us wanted Templar to be a glass cannon DPS but that's what ZOS gave us. Most of us were asking for bug fixes and defensive utility buffs.

Edit: I play Stamplar, major mending was our only change. (And CP resistance changes.)

Jesus Beam was made undodgeable once again. Ironic when you consider that you can dodge Toppling Charge now.

hydrocynus · March 2016

I believe it also allows more than one jesus beam to execute a target now. Is that correct?

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO · March 2016

remilafo wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

70k DPS single target ? Come on....Over how long of a fight? People keep exploding these numbers lol.

seriously... you are right.. people quote these ridiculous numbers which are only an exaggeration of a perfectly IDEAL cicumstance like...

Stationary target, while on the tank with every imaginable buff on them and every imaginable debuff on the target.

Get real people, this is where target dummies would expose real numbers...

The very best i ever saw was a stam NB in 5x briar, 5x hundings and 2 agility pulling about 22k without ultimates and without help from anyone... that *** was ridiculous..

Never said it was alone, I did say it was in a group and yes, he did pull almost 70k dps with help on the daedroth boss in vet BC with damage buffs etc. So they can pull it off, just not alone. But pretty much anything needing high dps will have you in a group, except vet maelstrom.

Vexzarium · March 2016

My V16 EP Templar, who is a drunken useless Nord... is much stronger offensively now... not really sure why... but he swigs mead and smacks a hoe. He's around 22-24k HP, 35k MP, and 16k SP. All Attributes into MP, 3100 Spell Damage Buffed(Entropy), and purple food. On the other hand, the survivability seems to be way reduced compared to the pre-TG era. I suppose I'm just not used to the changes yet.

Destyran · March 2016

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

You have to specify: are you talking PvE or PvP?

PvE was never the problem. Templars have always found a role in groups as the best healers and were doing ok.

In PvP, Templars are the worst class. You can run with a good group and be a healer; if you do anything other than that, you will be subpar. Breath of Life is now less reliable as a self heal (only 2 targets rather than 3 means less of a chance of healing yourself rather than some random guy nearby), you have to stand in 'your house' to get your full benefits of many skills, our mitigation has been in the toilet since the Battle Spirit nerf to shields (Blazing Shield is terrible now), and on top of that we have no mobility/escape, which means you are a sitting duck. The new update did nothing to address those issues.

So you really have to ask: PvE or PvP? In PvE we are fine; in PvP, we are the absolute worst, right alongside Stamina Sorcerers.

I pack people up on my stamplar in pvp and kill 3-6 man groups with my were wolf.

Acrolas · March 2016

I must admit, it's kind of nice not feeling compelled to heal anyone but myself.
Templars are more akin to Samurai in context of who they were and what they did, so I'm not going to play it like a skirt-wearing medic. I'm going to play it like a skirt-wearing rowdy righteous drunk who smashes heads in if they don't agree with me.

If you want generosity, go milk a Clannfear...

Zerok · March 2016

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

The very best i ever saw was a stam NB in 5x briar, 5x hundings and 2 agility pulling about 22k without ultimates and without help from anyone... that *** was ridiculous..

I've seen >30k dps (single target) from overload sorcerers in PvE.

In ideal circumstances, my stamina NB can get up to 26k dps. On average, it's more like 22k dps. I'm using 5x Briarheart, 3x Agility and 4x Morkuldin.

I'm very skeptical of people claiming that they do more than 35k dps. I'd need to see a proof of that.

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO · March 2016

Zerok wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

The very best i ever saw was a stam NB in 5x briar, 5x hundings and 2 agility pulling about 22k without ultimates and without help from anyone... that *** was ridiculous..

I've seen >30k dps (single target) from overload sorcerers in PvE.

In ideal circumstances, my stamina NB can get up to 26k dps. On average, it's more like 22k dps. I'm using 5x Briarheart, 3x Agility and 4x Morkuldin.

I'm very skeptical of people claiming that they do more than 35k dps. I'd need to see a proof of that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rd4VvQ6v5YM

From pre-patch.

Twing · March 2016

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

remilafo wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

70k DPS single target ? Come on....Over how long of a fight? People keep exploding these numbers lol.

seriously... you are right.. people quote these ridiculous numbers which are only an exaggeration of a perfectly IDEAL cicumstance like...

Stationary target, while on the tank with every imaginable buff on them and every imaginable debuff on the target.

Get real people, this is where target dummies would expose real numbers...

The very best i ever saw was a stam NB in 5x briar, 5x hundings and 2 agility pulling about 22k without ultimates and without help from anyone... that *** was ridiculous..

Never said it was alone, I did say it was in a group and yes, he did pull almost 70k dps with help on the daedroth boss in vet BC with damage buffs etc. So they can pull it off, just not alone. But pretty much anything needing high dps will have you in a group, except vet maelstrom.

I would think that 70k was padded with the adds that came with the boss.

Zerok · March 2016

What gear are you using?

UrQuan · March 2016

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Zerok wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

The very best i ever saw was a stam NB in 5x briar, 5x hundings and 2 agility pulling about 22k without ultimates and without help from anyone... that *** was ridiculous..

I've seen >30k dps (single target) from overload sorcerers in PvE.

In ideal circumstances, my stamina NB can get up to 26k dps. On average, it's more like 22k dps. I'm using 5x Briarheart, 3x Agility and 4x Morkuldin.

I'm very skeptical of people claiming that they do more than 35k dps. I'd need to see a proof of that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rd4VvQ6v5YM

From pre-patch.

That's not single target... The meteor, the shards, and the sweeps were all inflating the DPS because they were hitting all the adds.

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO · March 2016

Twing wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

remilafo wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

70k DPS single target ? Come on....Over how long of a fight? People keep exploding these numbers lol.

seriously... you are right.. people quote these ridiculous numbers which are only an exaggeration of a perfectly IDEAL cicumstance like...

Stationary target, while on the tank with every imaginable buff on them and every imaginable debuff on the target.

Get real people, this is where target dummies would expose real numbers...

The very best i ever saw was a stam NB in 5x briar, 5x hundings and 2 agility pulling about 22k without ultimates and without help from anyone... that *** was ridiculous..

Never said it was alone, I did say it was in a group and yes, he did pull almost 70k dps with help on the daedroth boss in vet BC with damage buffs etc. So they can pull it off, just not alone. But pretty much anything needing high dps will have you in a group, except vet maelstrom.

I would think that 70k was padded with the adds that came with the boss.

No adds in vet BC on that boss, it's the one putting fire on one of the people (most likely the tank).

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO · March 2016

Zerok wrote: »

What gear are you using?

Not my video, just some person that had put it on youtube.

Refuse2GrowUp · March 2016

Anhedonie wrote: »

DPS is better, healing is worse.
Also it's hard to heal templar tanks, comparing to dk or nb tanks.

I have yet to play the DLC (I'm console), but I am not so sure healing is worse

Julianos · March 2016

idk about healin but jesus beam hits like a joke while im fighting with someone a templar goes and spam jesus beam on me from range if im not blocking or my shields are down i die in secs with 17-18k total damage from jesus beam nothing hits me like that.

Joy_Division · March 2016

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Zerok wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

The very best i ever saw was a stam NB in 5x briar, 5x hundings and 2 agility pulling about 22k without ultimates and without help from anyone... that *** was ridiculous..

I've seen >30k dps (single target) from overload sorcerers in PvE.

In ideal circumstances, my stamina NB can get up to 26k dps. On average, it's more like 22k dps. I'm using 5x Briarheart, 3x Agility and 4x Morkuldin.

I'm very skeptical of people claiming that they do more than 35k dps. I'd need to see a proof of that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rd4VvQ6v5YM

From pre-patch.

What I find ironic is that this build does not use the templar skill people are claiming does too much damage.

UrQuan · March 2016

Based on my personal experience since the patch (which is a small sample, and should not be considered to be definitive proof of anything).

Magicka Templar DPS is better. Not much to say about it really - changes in CPs and various minor changes in skills simply make it better than it was before.

Magicka Templar tanking is about the same. Or at least I haven't noticed a significant difference.

Magicka Templar healing is better if you're in a decent group that knows what they're doing, but worse if you're in a PUG with players that constantly need "oh ***" heals. The only real nerf to Templar healing is the Breath of Life nerf, and in a good group it won't matter because you should almost never need to use BoL. Between Purifying Ritual, Rapid Regen, and Healing Springs with a good group you'll almost never need it.

A PUG with inexperienced players is where you need it, and it's also where you're really going to feel that nerf. The problem with it isn't that they nerfed BoL - it's that they gave it the wrong nerf. Give it a line of sight check, sure. Reduce the actual amount it heals to compensate for the new availability of MM, fine. Make it only hit 2 targets instead of 3 though? Well, now 1 of the guys in your inexperienced PUG is dead, because you're the only one who blocked through/dodged out of that massive AOE, and you could only heal 2 of the other 3 in time to keep those adds from finishing them off.

So I'd say they made Templar healing stronger for top players/groups, and weaker for inexperienced players/groups. Doesn't seem like the best design decision to me...

david.haypreub18_ESO · March 2016

Ampnode wrote: »

But hey, you guys wanted to be crazy OP, right? Your wish has been granted.

None of us asked for a buff to Dark Flare. I have no idea why ZOS buffed the useful morph (Dark Flare) and left the less useful one to die. Also, most of us weren't even asking for any buffs to DPS; we don't want to be glass canons. We'd just like to have our survivability returned (Blinding Flashes) or restored (Blazing Shield).

But for some reason, Wrobel saw us asking for survivability buffs and said, 'Here's moar DPS!' So now we're glass canons, when I for one am trying to play a Paladin.

Please don't blame us for this; it is not something we asked for or ever wanted.

Ampnode · March 2016

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

Ampnode wrote: »

But hey, you guys wanted to be crazy OP, right? Your wish has been granted.

None of us asked for a buff to Dark Flare. I have no idea why ZOS buffed the useful morph (Dark Flare) and left the less useful one to die. Also, most of us weren't even asking for any buffs to DPS; we don't want to be glass canons. We'd just like to have our survivability returned (Blinding Flashes) or restored (Blazing Shield).

But for some reason, Wrobel saw us asking for survivability buffs and said, 'Here's moar DPS!' So now we're glass canons, when I for one am trying to play a Paladin.

Please don't blame us for this; it is not something we asked for or ever wanted.

My apologies. Blaming templars is probably a selfish thing to do knowing what ZOS usually does with classes asking for buffs. Keep in mind that ZOS has a horrible record of giving the players what they truly want and ask for. This is another example of just that. Some templars wanted damage potential while others wanted survivability/tankiness. Based on what we've seen with DK's suvivability/tankiness, we can infer that templars would not have gotten those kind of buffs, so that leaves the pleas for damage buffs. The team does not like tanks when it comes to PvP, or probably even PvE, whatsoever. Because of this, they'll give you something else to compensate for it, which is damage.

I don't mean to vent out frustration to a certain group of players, but you have to realize how infuriating it is how there's a FoTM class going around Cyrodiil every major patch.

AfkNinja · March 2016

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

Ampnode wrote: »

But hey, you guys wanted to be crazy OP, right? Your wish has been granted.

None of us asked for a buff to Dark Flare. I have no idea why ZOS buffed the useful morph (Dark Flare) and left the less useful one to die. Also, most of us weren't even asking for any buffs to DPS; we don't want to be glass canons. We'd just like to have our survivability returned (Blinding Flashes) or restored (Blazing Shield).

But for some reason, Wrobel saw us asking for survivability buffs and said, 'Here's moar DPS!' So now we're glass canons, when I for one am trying to play a Paladin.

Please don't blame us for this; it is not something we asked for or ever wanted.

This. Almost none of us were asking for damage. As a Stamina Templar I was asking for Major Mending somewhere in our kit so stamina heals would be stronger on Templar and I wanted an aoe CC. A Fix to Blazing Shield for PVP would be boss also. I thought our dmg was fine, it's our sustain and defensive utility which are poor. (We can give stamina/magicka to everyone but ourselves hahaha.)

david.haypreub18_ESO · March 2016

Ampnode wrote: »

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

Ampnode wrote: »

But hey, you guys wanted to be crazy OP, right? Your wish has been granted.

None of us asked for a buff to Dark Flare. I have no idea why ZOS buffed the useful morph (Dark Flare) and left the less useful one to die. Also, most of us weren't even asking for any buffs to DPS; we don't want to be glass canons. We'd just like to have our survivability returned (Blinding Flashes) or restored (Blazing Shield).

But for some reason, Wrobel saw us asking for survivability buffs and said, 'Here's moar DPS!' So now we're glass canons, when I for one am trying to play a Paladin.

Please don't blame us for this; it is not something we asked for or ever wanted.

My apologies. Blaming templars is probably a selfish thing to do knowing what ZOS usually does with classes asking for buffs. Keep in mind that ZOS has a horrible record of giving the players what they truly want and ask for. This is another example of just that. Some templars wanted damage potential while others wanted survivability/tankiness. Based on what we've seen with DK's suvivability/tankiness, we can infer that templars would not have gotten those kind of buffs, so that leaves the pleas for damage buffs. The team does not like tanks when it comes to PvP, or probably even PvE, whatsoever. Because of this, they'll give you something else to compensate for it, which is damage.

I don't mean to vent out frustration to a certain group of players, but you have to realize how infuriating it is how there's a FoTM class going around Cyrodiil every major patch.

No need for an apology; I agree completely with you. The dev team seems to want to make PvP into nothing but a DPS check. They nerfed blocking, nerfed Templar mitigation, and now they seem to be considering nerfing shields: anything that gets in the way of pure DPS. It is making the game worse.

dodgehopper_ESO · March 2016

Anhedonie wrote: »

DPS is better, healing is worse.
Also it's hard to heal templar tanks, comparing to dk or nb tanks.

The real irony is that by theme it was clear tanking was definitely in mind for the class with the passives (and skill lines) they were given.

david.haypreub18_ESO · March 2016

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Anhedonie wrote: »

DPS is better, healing is worse.
Also it's hard to heal templar tanks, comparing to dk or nb tanks.

The real irony is that by theme it was clear tanking was definitely in mind for the class with the passives (and skill lines) they were given.

And don't forget: they're supposed to protect their house!

They are actually terrible at that now.

Alabyn · March 2016

Sorry, OP. I know you posted about your healer Templar, and the thread went DPS. Yes, healing does seem boosted by the reasons you listed. I think the effect varies by healing style. I like not having to herd cats into my circle to get the passive boost to my heals. Also, I enjoy healing springs, and now it gets the major mending boost as well.

dodgehopper_ESO · March 2016

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

I'm glad every Templar I know rolled the class for DPS...

You forgot to type /sarcasm. I don't want ZoS taking this statement seriously.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · March 2016

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

As a Magika Templar Healer main who still haven't gotten to v16, I have no clue how he is doing endgame, but I was always worried investing so much time on him only to turn out bad.

From what I see at my current state, I think he is better, he got damage buffs to some skills and his passive change to major mending is actually good, I don't have to run around after my party to apply the buffs to them I can get the boost from where I'm standing.

Can the end game guys enlighten me about the current state of the templars, also the stamina ones since I have a v2 stamplar tank so should I invest more in templars, they are the most fun race for me, but I need a good class for end game content PvP and PvE.

Well, I know some templars that did 45-50k dps before the patch, now they do 50-70k on bosses etc.

What a complete load of, well you know. Nobody is pulling 50-70k single target. On trash packs, sure, but people have been pulling 80K plus on a perfectly timed trash pack for a while now. But 80K +10 adds that all die a the same time is not DPS that anyone cares about. Also, 2 seconds of Jesus Beam doesnt count as single target. Stop spreading misinformation.

Good Players are well over 30K on multiple classes at this point, and it wont shock me to see 40k single target parses before too long, but this is laughable.

PainfulFAFA · March 2016

Nifty2g wrote: »

magicka templar in pve is possibly the strongest right now, or very close to it

This.
Magplars are very good for PvE but for PvP you need to do something about wrecking blow spammers
(i.e. not enough stam for cc breaking ). Jesus beam is now a threat as you can probably tell by all the QQ on forums. xD