The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
Detailed Familiar feedback
Erraln
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Hi all, the recent change to Conjured Ward mechanics caused me to take a deeper look into the skills it effects, something I hadn't done yet this PTS cycle. This is Sorcerer feedback, but I feel it'd derail or get buried in the Official thread.
The DPS comparisons in this thread were done with provided Julianos, Willpower, Maelstrom staves, and Monster set items, with provided crown food and Magelight. CP are 100 Bastion, 100 Magician, and 100 Staff Expert to not interfere in damage type comparisons. This is not an ideal summoner setup at all, so don't take the numbers I've provided too seriously. If any EU players could provide Magicka stacked numbers, I'd appreciate it
Volatile Familiar
Health at VR16: 22,022
Attacks: Familiar Melee: Deal Shock damage to target, every 3 seconds. Negligible damage, can proc Concussion.
Active Effect: Familiar Damage Pulse, deal 8% total Magicka as AoE damage every 2 seconds for 4 seconds (3 pulses). 6 Meter radius
Observed DPS: 2,370 with active ability used on cooldown.
The active effect on this skill is more useful than I initially imagined it could be. Unlike basic summon attacks, the Familiar Damage Pulse scales with Champion Points. Elemental Expert, Elfborn, and Thaumaturge all increase its strength. As such, it should comfortably make its way onto AoE rotations. The damage output is higher than Liquid Lightning, with added stun chance. It's possible to spam the active Pulse, but I wouldn't recommend it, unless the caster is out of range of the target. Crystal Blast and Impulse out-damage it, as direct-damage instant abilities should. Imo this is a better iteration of the skill than the Live version, which was useful in Cyrodiil for surprise attacks, but had few use cases in PvE. It should see play in both sectors coming up in March.
Unstable Clannfear
Health at VR16: 27,266
Attacks: Claw: Deal Physical damage to target and Tail Swipe: Deal Physical damage, frontal AoE, every 2-3 seconds.
Active Effect: Spend 200% Summoning cost to restore 35% of your health, base, to yourself and the Clannfear, if within range.
Observed DPS: 400
The self-heal change, coupled with the Conjured Ward fix make the Clannfear nigh-immortal in the hands of any player who pays attention. Drawing aggression with the familiar before wading in is very effective for reducing threat. The only thing I can even think to suggest is perhaps to allow Taunted enemies to focus on the summon, rather than the caster. It'd put all this fortitude to use
Twilight Tormentor
Health at VR16: 10487
Attacks: Zap: Deal Shock damage to target and Kick: Deal Physical damage to target, every 2 seconds.
Active Effect: Empower, causing your Tormentor to deal 50% more damage to enemies above 50% Health for 15 seconds.
Observed DPS: 1.2k passive, 1.8k active above 50%.
This skill morph needs improvement. Unlike the Volatile Familiar, the active ability does not scale with CP. Considering it as a single-target DoT, it is mediocre. It outdoes Structured Entropy(.6k), Soul Splitting Trap(.5), and Boundless Storm(.75). It comes in about equal with Proxy Det (1k), Destructive Clench (1.1), fails to beat Wall of Elements(2.2k), Liquid Lightning (2.3k), and most critically, Volatile Familiar (2.37). Activating Boundless, Clench, Det, LL, WoE, or VF all give more damage for your button press than activating Empower, and many of them do so AoE for the entire fight rather than single-target for half. Nearly any combination of 2 dot abilities would be a higher damage choice than slotting this thing on front and back bars.
Because this morph is juxtaposed with a strong healing option, the damage that it produces needs to be very tempting if anyone is going to consider slotting it. One way to do that which would synergize with a Summoner build excellently would be to make the active skill cast Minor Berserk with a small radius. This would allow a Sorcerer to use one familiar to buff others, especially the Storm Atronach. The radius could be centered on the Twilight rather than the Sorc, if possible, so as not to compete so directly with Combat Prayer. Another possible adjustment could be to give the Active ability an additional DoT, such as VF has been given, but still single-target. If the strength were similar to WoE, in addition to the base Zaps and Kicks, the Tormentor could become a good damage choice.
Summary: Less health, less damage, no AoE, no stun vs Scamp. Needs help.
Twilight Matriarch
Health at VR16: 10,487
Attacks: Zap: Deal Shock damage to target and Kick: Deal Physical damage to target, every 2 seconds.
Active Effect: Smart Heal two friendly targets (including caster) within 28m of Sorcerer for 22.4% total Magicka, and Twilight if in range.
This active ability as well as the Clannfear's is technically cast by the Sorcerer, and therefore scales correctly with everything available to healers. I'm almost afraid to give numbers on how high this heal can be pushed. A true Magicka stacker could crit heal players outside Cyrodiil with % healing taken for excess of 30k. Average cast strength can approach 20k on a neutral target. It's a good thing I own Spell Power Cure, because that gives me the excuse not to wear Necropotence in 2016, just for this skill. I know there are calls to improve that set, but honestly, if Zeni gave it VR16 status and useful traits it would be downright scary. The heal is almost worthy of a reduction, except for the Matriarch's Health: 10.5k doesn't stick around through anything. Warding is required, and in Cyrodiil it'd be quite obvious to take out the flyers first. The fact that Sorcerers can be deprived of this skill is balance enough.
Charged Atronach
Health at VR16: 34,082
Attacks: Lightning Strike: AoE Shock Damage, Atronach Zap, Single-Target Shock Damage
Synergy: Major Berserk (25% increased damage to Atronach and Synergizer for 8 seconds)
This is another summon which could benefit from attention. The Charged Atro sells itself as an AoE morph, but it does very little actual AoE damage. An average cast plays out with the summon landing on targets, casting 3 Lightning Strike waves with two single-target Zaps between, and expiring. It seems to have no AoE cap, but as it does about 5k damage average in pts gear, that doesn't help much. It is incapable of killing a Spellfiend pack in Craglorn. They tend to remain with 40% health afterwards, though the 2 singled out targets could die. Overload Heavy attack would kill them with less ultimate, in less time. So could Flawless Dawnbreaker, and either morph of Meteor would also clean them up nicely. Perhaps if it were changed to be pure AoE rather than mixed, or the Lightning Strikes provided damage over time during its channel phases, this Ultimate might be worth its cost. Currently, it's a better idea to simply cast Negate to down or silence the group, and AoE them with skills.
This would be a good place to put a Physical based Ultimate for Stamina Sorcerer, if a complete rework is in order. Air Atronach, perhaps, with whirling blades and synergies for other classes to empower it elementally? Flesh Atronach, with poison or disease damage? I'm sure something could be worked out.
Greater Atronach
Health at VR16: 34,082
Attacks: Atronach Zap, Single-Target Shock Damage
Synergy: Major Berserk (25% increased damage to Atronach and Synergizer for 8 seconds)
I've given some analysis about this skill over here. Summary: It can do more total single-target damage than Meteor, and the Berserk synergy is great, but it takes a good deal of buffing to get it there. Daedric Curse is required for decent damage. It's not for everything, and it would be great if the Zap damage could scale with CP. It doesn't.
The change to allow Storm Atronachs to be Commandable is appreciated, though it does introduce a l2p issue: Dropping one with your pets Commanded to stand down will preclude it from attacking until you designate a target. Also, what is the reasoning behind these Ultimates having less health than Monster Set summons? Dwemer Spheres have 34,606 and MotI Daedra have 42k. I don't think it'd be excessive for these guys to have 40 or 45k, considering they can be disabled entirely in PvP, are situational casts in PvE, and have expiration times for both.
Shadow Silk Spiders
Health at VR16: 6,921
Attacks: Initial synergy strike, Black Widow Poison, Bite
Synergy: Friendly player can activate spiders with poison or fear effects.
This summon is unusual, as the synergizer is the one who the spiders belong to, not the caster. Spiders can be Warded and benefit from Daedric Prey. By default the initial activation does about two thirds of the total damage (12k-ish total with pts gear), a Sorcerer could increase the synergy's total damage by about 20% with Prey. This would bring the cast up to about 18-20k total damage with PTS gear for an instant, counting both participants. It's worth casting if your party can cooperate well, but not intensely so. Teaming up to cast Fear in PvP is cool. Hopefully this can get a look in DB with the rest of the Undaunted tree.
Maw of the Infernal Daedroth
Health at VR16: 41,947
Attacks: Fiery Breath: Deal AoE cone Fire damage, Jagged Claw: Deal Physical damage to Target, Fiery Jaws: Deal Fire damage to Target
Unlike the other summons here, the Maw of the Infernal familiar does not scale with the player's stats at all. Rather, its strength scales with the level and quality of the monster set equips. VR16 Legendary values state "basic attack deals 5321 damage", which can be used to estimate 45k total single-target damage per summon, with this thread's gear setup. This assumes it does not miss, travel, become stunned, or die. The familiar would be nice, if it came up more often or lasted longer. 5% on light/heavy is very infrequent in practice, uptime is generally low. Lightning or Restoration channels have the best summon rate, with chance to proc from each tick. I personally would like the duration to be increased by 5 seconds or so. It would allow enough time for a second full Fiery Breath cycle. Also, he needs a new desummon animation, having him fall flat mid-attack just feels lame.
Daedric Prey
Finally, the summon buff skill itself. It's worth casting this as a dot if you're wearing the Volatile Familiar, using the Greater Atro, or both. Otherwise, its contributions to damage are too small to justify in PvE. I can't imagine it being used in PvP currently, the halved cast time of Velocious is too nice for burst setups. A great way to improve this skill would be for the AoE portion of the explosion to tag the targets hit with the Prey damage increase. This would synergize really well with the Volatile Familiar and excellently with the Charged Atro.
Generally, Summoner is in a better place than it has been for the last year, PvE wise at any rate. Allowing CP Scaling for the basic attacks would help address several of the points raised. What are your thoughts, everyone? Did I miss any interactions, or could someone speak to the PvP side of these skills? Hopefully the entire Daedric Summoning tree can become seen as a useful portion of the class, for one role or another.
The DPS comparisons in this thread were done with provided Julianos, Willpower, Maelstrom staves, and Monster set items, with provided crown food and Magelight. CP are 100 Bastion, 100 Magician, and 100 Staff Expert to not interfere in damage type comparisons. This is not an ideal summoner setup at all, so don't take the numbers I've provided too seriously. If any EU players could provide Magicka stacked numbers, I'd appreciate it
Volatile Familiar
Health at VR16: 22,022
Attacks: Familiar Melee: Deal Shock damage to target, every 3 seconds. Negligible damage, can proc Concussion.
Active Effect: Familiar Damage Pulse, deal 8% total Magicka as AoE damage every 2 seconds for 4 seconds (3 pulses). 6 Meter radius
Observed DPS: 2,370 with active ability used on cooldown.
The active effect on this skill is more useful than I initially imagined it could be. Unlike basic summon attacks, the Familiar Damage Pulse scales with Champion Points. Elemental Expert, Elfborn, and Thaumaturge all increase its strength. As such, it should comfortably make its way onto AoE rotations. The damage output is higher than Liquid Lightning, with added stun chance. It's possible to spam the active Pulse, but I wouldn't recommend it, unless the caster is out of range of the target. Crystal Blast and Impulse out-damage it, as direct-damage instant abilities should. Imo this is a better iteration of the skill than the Live version, which was useful in Cyrodiil for surprise attacks, but had few use cases in PvE. It should see play in both sectors coming up in March.
Unstable Clannfear
Health at VR16: 27,266
Attacks: Claw: Deal Physical damage to target and Tail Swipe: Deal Physical damage, frontal AoE, every 2-3 seconds.
Active Effect: Spend 200% Summoning cost to restore 35% of your health, base, to yourself and the Clannfear, if within range.
Observed DPS: 400
The self-heal change, coupled with the Conjured Ward fix make the Clannfear nigh-immortal in the hands of any player who pays attention. Drawing aggression with the familiar before wading in is very effective for reducing threat. The only thing I can even think to suggest is perhaps to allow Taunted enemies to focus on the summon, rather than the caster. It'd put all this fortitude to use
Twilight Tormentor
Health at VR16: 10487
Attacks: Zap: Deal Shock damage to target and Kick: Deal Physical damage to target, every 2 seconds.
Active Effect: Empower, causing your Tormentor to deal 50% more damage to enemies above 50% Health for 15 seconds.
Observed DPS: 1.2k passive, 1.8k active above 50%.
This skill morph needs improvement. Unlike the Volatile Familiar, the active ability does not scale with CP. Considering it as a single-target DoT, it is mediocre. It outdoes Structured Entropy(.6k), Soul Splitting Trap(.5), and Boundless Storm(.75). It comes in about equal with Proxy Det (1k), Destructive Clench (1.1), fails to beat Wall of Elements(2.2k), Liquid Lightning (2.3k), and most critically, Volatile Familiar (2.37). Activating Boundless, Clench, Det, LL, WoE, or VF all give more damage for your button press than activating Empower, and many of them do so AoE for the entire fight rather than single-target for half. Nearly any combination of 2 dot abilities would be a higher damage choice than slotting this thing on front and back bars.
Because this morph is juxtaposed with a strong healing option, the damage that it produces needs to be very tempting if anyone is going to consider slotting it. One way to do that which would synergize with a Summoner build excellently would be to make the active skill cast Minor Berserk with a small radius. This would allow a Sorcerer to use one familiar to buff others, especially the Storm Atronach. The radius could be centered on the Twilight rather than the Sorc, if possible, so as not to compete so directly with Combat Prayer. Another possible adjustment could be to give the Active ability an additional DoT, such as VF has been given, but still single-target. If the strength were similar to WoE, in addition to the base Zaps and Kicks, the Tormentor could become a good damage choice.
Summary: Less health, less damage, no AoE, no stun vs Scamp. Needs help.
Twilight Matriarch
Health at VR16: 10,487
Attacks: Zap: Deal Shock damage to target and Kick: Deal Physical damage to target, every 2 seconds.
Active Effect: Smart Heal two friendly targets (including caster) within 28m of Sorcerer for 22.4% total Magicka, and Twilight if in range.
This active ability as well as the Clannfear's is technically cast by the Sorcerer, and therefore scales correctly with everything available to healers. I'm almost afraid to give numbers on how high this heal can be pushed. A true Magicka stacker could crit heal players outside Cyrodiil with % healing taken for excess of 30k. Average cast strength can approach 20k on a neutral target. It's a good thing I own Spell Power Cure, because that gives me the excuse not to wear Necropotence in 2016, just for this skill. I know there are calls to improve that set, but honestly, if Zeni gave it VR16 status and useful traits it would be downright scary. The heal is almost worthy of a reduction, except for the Matriarch's Health: 10.5k doesn't stick around through anything. Warding is required, and in Cyrodiil it'd be quite obvious to take out the flyers first. The fact that Sorcerers can be deprived of this skill is balance enough.
Charged Atronach
Health at VR16: 34,082
Attacks: Lightning Strike: AoE Shock Damage, Atronach Zap, Single-Target Shock Damage
Synergy: Major Berserk (25% increased damage to Atronach and Synergizer for 8 seconds)
This is another summon which could benefit from attention. The Charged Atro sells itself as an AoE morph, but it does very little actual AoE damage. An average cast plays out with the summon landing on targets, casting 3 Lightning Strike waves with two single-target Zaps between, and expiring. It seems to have no AoE cap, but as it does about 5k damage average in pts gear, that doesn't help much. It is incapable of killing a Spellfiend pack in Craglorn. They tend to remain with 40% health afterwards, though the 2 singled out targets could die. Overload Heavy attack would kill them with less ultimate, in less time. So could Flawless Dawnbreaker, and either morph of Meteor would also clean them up nicely. Perhaps if it were changed to be pure AoE rather than mixed, or the Lightning Strikes provided damage over time during its channel phases, this Ultimate might be worth its cost. Currently, it's a better idea to simply cast Negate to down or silence the group, and AoE them with skills.
This would be a good place to put a Physical based Ultimate for Stamina Sorcerer, if a complete rework is in order. Air Atronach, perhaps, with whirling blades and synergies for other classes to empower it elementally? Flesh Atronach, with poison or disease damage? I'm sure something could be worked out.
Greater Atronach
Health at VR16: 34,082
Attacks: Atronach Zap, Single-Target Shock Damage
Synergy: Major Berserk (25% increased damage to Atronach and Synergizer for 8 seconds)
I've given some analysis about this skill over here. Summary: It can do more total single-target damage than Meteor, and the Berserk synergy is great, but it takes a good deal of buffing to get it there. Daedric Curse is required for decent damage. It's not for everything, and it would be great if the Zap damage could scale with CP. It doesn't.
The change to allow Storm Atronachs to be Commandable is appreciated, though it does introduce a l2p issue: Dropping one with your pets Commanded to stand down will preclude it from attacking until you designate a target. Also, what is the reasoning behind these Ultimates having less health than Monster Set summons? Dwemer Spheres have 34,606 and MotI Daedra have 42k. I don't think it'd be excessive for these guys to have 40 or 45k, considering they can be disabled entirely in PvP, are situational casts in PvE, and have expiration times for both.
Shadow Silk Spiders
Health at VR16: 6,921
Attacks: Initial synergy strike, Black Widow Poison, Bite
Synergy: Friendly player can activate spiders with poison or fear effects.
This summon is unusual, as the synergizer is the one who the spiders belong to, not the caster. Spiders can be Warded and benefit from Daedric Prey. By default the initial activation does about two thirds of the total damage (12k-ish total with pts gear), a Sorcerer could increase the synergy's total damage by about 20% with Prey. This would bring the cast up to about 18-20k total damage with PTS gear for an instant, counting both participants. It's worth casting if your party can cooperate well, but not intensely so. Teaming up to cast Fear in PvP is cool. Hopefully this can get a look in DB with the rest of the Undaunted tree.
Maw of the Infernal Daedroth
Health at VR16: 41,947
Attacks: Fiery Breath: Deal AoE cone Fire damage, Jagged Claw: Deal Physical damage to Target, Fiery Jaws: Deal Fire damage to Target
Unlike the other summons here, the Maw of the Infernal familiar does not scale with the player's stats at all. Rather, its strength scales with the level and quality of the monster set equips. VR16 Legendary values state "basic attack deals 5321 damage", which can be used to estimate 45k total single-target damage per summon, with this thread's gear setup. This assumes it does not miss, travel, become stunned, or die. The familiar would be nice, if it came up more often or lasted longer. 5% on light/heavy is very infrequent in practice, uptime is generally low. Lightning or Restoration channels have the best summon rate, with chance to proc from each tick. I personally would like the duration to be increased by 5 seconds or so. It would allow enough time for a second full Fiery Breath cycle. Also, he needs a new desummon animation, having him fall flat mid-attack just feels lame.
Daedric Prey
Finally, the summon buff skill itself. It's worth casting this as a dot if you're wearing the Volatile Familiar, using the Greater Atro, or both. Otherwise, its contributions to damage are too small to justify in PvE. I can't imagine it being used in PvP currently, the halved cast time of Velocious is too nice for burst setups. A great way to improve this skill would be for the AoE portion of the explosion to tag the targets hit with the Prey damage increase. This would synergize really well with the Volatile Familiar and excellently with the Charged Atro.
Generally, Summoner is in a better place than it has been for the last year, PvE wise at any rate. Allowing CP Scaling for the basic attacks would help address several of the points raised. What are your thoughts, everyone? Did I miss any interactions, or could someone speak to the PvP side of these skills? Hopefully the entire Daedric Summoning tree can become seen as a useful portion of the class, for one role or another.
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CasNation✭✭✭✭✭Thanks for posting that. This is some really great feedback especially for the atronach and twilight morphs. For the first time since I started playing sorc ( and I have been playing sorc since beta), I am actually interested in using the pets, and this has been helpful for me formulating some ideas for my build. Still trying to figure out what to wear besides necropotence...I'd prefer not to run v12 gear but if it is really superior...PC NA AD
Gamma Fyr: Dunmer Sorcerer Stamina DPS (the Missing Sister...props to those who get the reference)
Samekh Fyr: Dunmer Nightblade Magicka DPS
Claire Le'Rouge: Breton Templar Heal/Tank (the Resplendent Bastion)
Augustus Constantine: Imperial Nightblade PvP (Blackwater Bandit)
Shadow-of-Sundered-Star: Altmer Dragonknight Lowbie0 -
Erraln✭✭✭✭✭Well, there are other magicka-heavy set options. One combination could be 3 Spell Power Cure, 4 Elemental Succession, 3 Willpower, and an unbound slot for Kena or Maelstrom wep or what have you. That would put you in 6 or 7 light, though. A 5/1/1 setup would be 2 Crafted for Magic (Kagrenac, Magnus, etc), 3 SPC again, 4 Ele.Succ. on 2 armor and 2 jewelry, and then 2/3 Willpower with WP Staff and DW. That setup would have very high magic, but less penetration, spell damage, and also requires quite a bit of Maelstrom farming to get the E.S. Jewelry. Check the set effect tables and see what you can work out, for your own available gear. Necropotence does have some detriments to it; the guaranteed Sturdy trait, and the fact that your magic will drop if your familiars are down.
Were I Pledge or Raid healing with Twilight, I'd likely be in 5 SPC 4 Trinimac (jewelry and shoulder), 1 kena, and Maelstrom Resto/Destro, personally. I really enjoy that setup's power and regen balance.Edited by Erraln on February 25, 2016 2:50PM0 -
CasNation✭✭✭✭✭I had another question as well regarding twilight: how are you getting 20k heals on a "neutral" target? I want you to understand that I am not attacking you, but I feel that a lot of people are over blowing the healing capabilities of the twilight. It is good, but to get 20k heals on a crit, you would need somewhere around 60k (without Blessed CP, maybe 55k with) magicka. That isn't exactly easy to get, and you would sacrifice a lot of regen and spell crit to get there.
Let's assume that you get 50k magicka and a decent crit. Let's also assume that you want to off DPS or PvP, so you have your CP into Elemental Expert and not Blessed. At 50k mag, your heals are doing ~10k on a normal heal, and ~15k on a crit. So, sure, you could stack higher and reach those 20k numbers if you wanted, but it would take a lot of effort.
So I guess my real question is, under normal circumstances, what size are the heals, and if the answer is still 20k, how are you getting there? Thanks.PC NA AD
Gamma Fyr: Dunmer Sorcerer Stamina DPS (the Missing Sister...props to those who get the reference)
Samekh Fyr: Dunmer Nightblade Magicka DPS
Claire Le'Rouge: Breton Templar Heal/Tank (the Resplendent Bastion)
Augustus Constantine: Imperial Nightblade PvP (Blackwater Bandit)
Shadow-of-Sundered-Star: Altmer Dragonknight Lowbie0 -
Jar_Ek✭✭✭✭✭What do the sorcerer summons HP scale with if anything? Sorcerer health or magicka or nothing? If they scale with magicka then even Clannfear will be useless for stamina builds.0 -
remilafo✭✭✭✭Hi all, the recent change to Conjured Ward mechanics caused me to take a deeper look into the skills it effects, something I hadn't done yet this PTS cycle. This is Sorcerer feedback, but I feel it'd derail or get buried in the Official thread.
The DPS comparisons in this thread were done with provided Julianos, Willpower, Maelstrom staves, and Monster set items, with provided crown food and Magelight. CP are 100 Bastion, 100 Magician, and 100 Staff Expert to not interfere in damage type comparisons. This is not an ideal summoner setup at all, so don't take the numbers I've provided too seriously. If any EU players could provide Magicka stacked numbers, I'd appreciate it
Volatile Familiar
Health at VR16: 22,022
Attacks: Familiar Melee: Deal Shock damage to target, every 3 seconds. Negligible damage, can proc Concussion.
Active Effect: Familiar Damage Pulse, deal 8% total Magicka as AoE damage every 2 seconds for 4 seconds (3 pulses). 6 Meter radius
Observed DPS: 2,370 with active ability used on cooldown.
The active effect on this skill is more useful than I initially imagined it could be. Unlike basic summon attacks, the Familiar Damage Pulse scales with Champion Points. Elemental Expert, Elfborn, and Thaumaturge all increase its strength. As such, it should comfortably make its way onto AoE rotations. The damage output is higher than Liquid Lightning, with added stun chance. It's possible to spam the active Pulse, but I wouldn't recommend it, unless the caster is out of range of the target. Crystal Blast and Impulse out-damage it, as direct-damage instant abilities should. Imo this is a better iteration of the skill than the Live version, which was useful in Cyrodiil for surprise attacks, but had few use cases in PvE. It should see play in both sectors coming up in March.
Unstable Clannfear
Health at VR16: 27,266
Attacks: Claw: Deal Physical damage to target and Tail Swipe: Deal Physical damage, frontal AoE, every 2-3 seconds.
Active Effect: Spend 200% Summoning cost to restore 35% of your health, base, to yourself and the Clannfear, if within range.
Observed DPS: 400
The self-heal change, coupled with the Conjured Ward fix make the Clannfear nigh-immortal in the hands of any player who pays attention. Drawing aggression with the familiar before wading in is very effective for reducing threat. The only thing I can even think to suggest is perhaps to allow Taunted enemies to focus on the summon, rather than the caster. It'd put all this fortitude to use
Twilight Tormentor
Health at VR16: 10487
Attacks: Zap: Deal Shock damage to target and Kick: Deal Physical damage to target, every 2 seconds.
Active Effect: Empower, causing your Tormentor to deal 50% more damage to enemies above 50% Health for 15 seconds.
Observed DPS: 1.2k passive, 1.8k active above 50%.
This skill morph needs improvement. Unlike the Volatile Familiar, the active ability does not scale with CP. Considering it as a single-target DoT, it is mediocre. It outdoes Structured Entropy(.6k), Soul Splitting Trap(.5), and Boundless Storm(.75). It comes in about equal with Proxy Det (1k), Destructive Clench (1.1), fails to beat Wall of Elements(2.2k), Liquid Lightning (2.3k), and most critically, Volatile Familiar (2.37). Activating Boundless, Clench, Det, LL, WoE, or VF all give more damage for your button press than activating Empower, and many of them do so AoE for the entire fight rather than single-target for half. Nearly any combination of 2 dot abilities would be a higher damage choice than slotting this thing on front and back bars.
Because this morph is juxtaposed with a strong healing option, the damage that it produces needs to be very tempting if anyone is going to consider slotting it. One way to do that which would synergize with a Summoner build excellently would be to make the active skill cast Minor Berserk with a small radius. This would allow a Sorcerer to use one familiar to buff others, especially the Storm Atronach. The radius could be centered on the Twilight rather than the Sorc, if possible, so as not to compete so directly with Combat Prayer. Another possible adjustment could be to give the Active ability an additional DoT, such as VF has been given, but still single-target. If the strength were similar to WoE, in addition to the base Zaps and Kicks, the Tormentor could become a good damage choice.
Summary: Less health, less damage, no AoE, no stun vs Scamp. Needs help.
Twilight Matriarch
Health at VR16: 10,487
Attacks: Zap: Deal Shock damage to target and Kick: Deal Physical damage to target, every 2 seconds.
Active Effect: Smart Heal two friendly targets (including caster) within 28m of Sorcerer for 22.4% total Magicka, and Twilight if in range.
This active ability as well as the Clannfear's is technically cast by the Sorcerer, and therefore scales correctly with everything available to healers. I'm almost afraid to give numbers on how high this heal can be pushed. A true Magicka stacker could crit heal players outside Cyrodiil with % healing taken for excess of 30k. Average cast strength can approach 20k on a neutral target. It's a good thing I own Spell Power Cure, because that gives me the excuse not to wear Necropotence in 2016, just for this skill. I know there are calls to improve that set, but honestly, if Zeni gave it VR16 status and useful traits it would be downright scary. The heal is almost worthy of a reduction, except for the Matriarch's Health: 10.5k doesn't stick around through anything. Warding is required, and in Cyrodiil it'd be quite obvious to take out the flyers first. The fact that Sorcerers can be deprived of this skill is balance enough.
Charged Atronach
Health at VR16: 34,082
Attacks: Lightning Strike: AoE Shock Damage, Atronach Zap, Single-Target Shock Damage
Synergy: Major Berserk (25% increased damage to Atronach and Synergizer for 8 seconds)
This is another summon which could benefit from attention. The Charged Atro sells itself as an AoE morph, but it does very little actual AoE damage. An average cast plays out with the summon landing on targets, casting 3 Lightning Strike waves with two single-target Zaps between, and expiring. It seems to have no AoE cap, but as it does about 5k damage average in pts gear, that doesn't help much. It is incapable of killing a Spellfiend pack in Craglorn. They tend to remain with 40% health afterwards, though the 2 singled out targets could die. Overload Heavy attack would kill them with less ultimate, in less time. So could Flawless Dawnbreaker, and either morph of Meteor would also clean them up nicely. Perhaps if it were changed to be pure AoE rather than mixed, or the Lightning Strikes provided damage over time during its channel phases, this Ultimate might be worth its cost. Currently, it's a better idea to simply cast Negate to down or silence the group, and AoE them with skills.
This would be a good place to put a Physical based Ultimate for Stamina Sorcerer, if a complete rework is in order. Air Atronach, perhaps, with whirling blades and synergies for other classes to empower it elementally? Flesh Atronach, with poison or disease damage? I'm sure something could be worked out.
Greater Atronach
Health at VR16: 34,082
Attacks: Atronach Zap, Single-Target Shock Damage
Synergy: Major Berserk (25% increased damage to Atronach and Synergizer for 8 seconds)
I've given some analysis about this skill over here. Summary: It can do more total single-target damage than Meteor, and the Berserk synergy is great, but it takes a good deal of buffing to get it there. Daedric Curse is required for decent damage. It's not for everything, and it would be great if the Zap damage could scale with CP. It doesn't.
The change to allow Storm Atronachs to be Commandable is appreciated, though it does introduce a l2p issue: Dropping one with your pets Commanded to stand down will preclude it from attacking until you designate a target. Also, what is the reasoning behind these Ultimates having less health than Monster Set summons? Dwemer Spheres have 34,606 and MotI Daedra have 42k. I don't think it'd be excessive for these guys to have 40 or 45k, considering they can be disabled entirely in PvP, are situational casts in PvE, and have expiration times for both.
Shadow Silk Spiders
Health at VR16: 6,921
Attacks: Initial synergy strike, Black Widow Poison, Bite
Synergy: Friendly player can activate spiders with poison or fear effects.
This summon is unusual, as the synergizer is the one who the spiders belong to, not the caster. Spiders can be Warded and benefit from Daedric Prey. By default the initial activation does about two thirds of the total damage (12k-ish total with pts gear), a Sorcerer could increase the synergy's total damage by about 20% with Prey. This would bring the cast up to about 18-20k total damage with PTS gear for an instant, counting both participants. It's worth casting if your party can cooperate well, but not intensely so. Teaming up to cast Fear in PvP is cool. Hopefully this can get a look in DB with the rest of the Undaunted tree.
Maw of the Infernal Daedroth
Health at VR16: 41,947
Attacks: Fiery Breath: Deal AoE cone Fire damage, Jagged Claw: Deal Physical damage to Target, Fiery Jaws: Deal Fire damage to Target
Unlike the other summons here, the Maw of the Infernal familiar does not scale with the player's stats at all. Rather, its strength scales with the level and quality of the monster set equips. VR16 Legendary values state "basic attack deals 5321 damage", which can be used to estimate 45k total single-target damage per summon, with this thread's gear setup. This assumes it does not miss, travel, become stunned, or die. The familiar would be nice, if it came up more often or lasted longer. 5% on light/heavy is very infrequent in practice, uptime is generally low. Lightning or Restoration channels have the best summon rate, with chance to proc from each tick. I personally would like the duration to be increased by 5 seconds or so. It would allow enough time for a second full Fiery Breath cycle. Also, he needs a new desummon animation, having him fall flat mid-attack just feels lame.
Daedric Prey
Finally, the summon buff skill itself. It's worth casting this as a dot if you're wearing the Volatile Familiar, using the Greater Atro, or both. Otherwise, its contributions to damage are too small to justify in PvE. I can't imagine it being used in PvP currently, the halved cast time of Velocious is too nice for burst setups. A great way to improve this skill would be for the AoE portion of the explosion to tag the targets hit with the Prey damage increase. This would synergize really well with the Volatile Familiar and excellently with the Charged Atro.
Generally, Summoner is in a better place than it has been for the last year, PvE wise at any rate. Allowing CP Scaling for the basic attacks would help address several of the points raised. What are your thoughts, everyone? Did I miss any interactions, or could someone speak to the PvP side of these skills? Hopefully the entire Daedric Summoning tree can become seen as a useful portion of the class, for one role or another.
nice write up... need more like this..0 -
Erraln✭✭✭✭✭how are you getting 20k heals on a "neutral" target?
So I guess my real question is, under normal circumstances, what size are the heals, and if the answer is still 20k, how are you getting there? Thanks.
Good question, and the answer is not quite that high. By neutral target I meant someone with 0 sources of increased Healing received. The 20k figure includes maxed Blessed, remainder Elfborn, and a legendary divines Ritual bonus for 40.25% higher heals and 169% crit healing. Few choose to spec so purely into increased healing.
If the caster has 48k magic and 48.3% crit, their base would be 10,752 before CP. Add CP/Mundus and you'll get 15,321 noncrit. A crit would then deal 25,892, averaging above 20k for both. That's a pretty boosted figure, but a reachable one. Can 48k magic be hit with full Divines? Well...
That was taken with the 4 Ele.Succ. 3SPC 2WP 2 Crafted setup I mentioned. Most of that gear is purple, two pieces are vr15, and one of the E.S. rings is Healthy. If those things were all corrected, I think that 48k could be reached or surpassed. That's two toggles and Meteor though, so in practice most people would have less magic and more utility. I did not take The Mage for this shot. It would have let me hit the mark, but it isn't an ideal choice for healers. Thief and Shadow are better for mixed healing/dps, and Ritual for pure healing.
For more normal circumstances, here are a few healer specs I've run before on Live, with average Illustrious Healing tick and upcoming average Twilight Matriarch figures for each. Mundus is the Thief, or Thief/Shadow for Twice-Born Star. CP are 100 Ele.Expert, 66 Elfborn, 1 Spell Precision. Sample Illustrious casts were performed on Heat-On-Scales in Rawl'kha. Note that the Matriarch heal does not swing as wildly as the Illustrious, due to magic being more stable between the gearsets. Head, shoulder, and restoration staff are Molag Kena Medium Divines, Spawn of Mephala Heavy Divines, and Maelstrom Restoration Staff Precise unless otherwise noted. Spell-Power Cure buff is active if the set is worn.
5 SPC, 3 Willpower: This is a high spell-damage loadout for doing dps/heals in an accomplished group. It lacks regen.
Average Illustrious: 3,744.990
Average Matriarch: 13,795.906
5 SPC, 4 Trinimac's Valor (shoulder+ jewelry): Much more comfortable regen, for when you'll be doing higher duration healing, and don't need to pop 4-5k crits on Illustrious.
Average Illustrious: 3,024.00
Average Matriarch: 12,836.064
My Trinimac set is very non-ideal, with VR15 jewelry with a Healthy ring, and a Reinforced shoulder. Only one spell glyph has been applied, my WP is 3 Spell damage.
5 TBS, 3 WP: Made for my dps spec back in October, useful for both healing and dealing. This can be adjusted for higher regen just as the SPC setup can be. The crit damage modifier for this setup is 1.87 due to The Shadow.
Average Illustrious: 3,753.418
Average Matriarch: 14,677.594
Twiceborn effectiveness varies easily with stone choice. It would give a higher heal rating with The Ritual and The Thief, but I've chosen to demonstrate Thief/Shadow as it's more versatile.
5 Kagrenac's Hope, 4 Trinimac's Valor: A regen and party survival focused gearing. Useful for dicey content.
Average Illustrious: 3,078.176
Average Matriarch: 12,526.504
5 Healer's Habit, 3 Willpower, 2 Crafted. I wore 2 Kagrenac's Hope for magic, slot whatever you like for stat adjustment.
Average Illustrious: 3,762.671
Average Matriarch: 13,537.827
Getting good results from wearing Healer's Habit is very much controlled by your slot choices, due to its max level of VR14 and non-variable Traits. I took these stats with Shoulder, Legs, Shoes, and Robe of the Healer for their Divines trait. Necklace is also healer, Willpower is completed by the Staff. Kagrenac's is in Belt and Glove slot, with Kena on head as usual. This itemization buffs healing potential, to the detriment of total Magic and total Armor. A more durable setup would have the crafted slots Chest and Legs, Healer in the 4 small Enchantment slots, and Kena on head or shoulder as available. If not available, add a 3rd Crafted item in the Head slot. It would have less Divines, but more Armor and Magic. Any Regen or Cost Reduction glyphs you wear should be put on the Healer jewelry slot first so what spell glyphs you choose to wear can stay on the VR16 items. Remember that VR16 wep/spell glyphs are 30% better than VR10-14 ones.
A benefit of this setup is that, for a pure healer, it is very effective and also requires no BoP items. Detriments include relatively rare set pieces (few run vDSA lately), and reduced damage potential.
The Restoration bar for these stats was: Rapid Regen for Mael Resto procs/SPC uptime, Illustrious Healing for general response, and Twilight Matriarch for burst heals. Flex slot (here Hardened Ward) and one toggle slot (here Bound Aegis), with Overload for the ultimate. I choose to run Aegis+ spellpower/crit potions rather than cast Inner Light. It's more expensive to do so but slightly better healing/dps. Alternate bars can either be support or DPS according to your tastes. Support choices would include Mystic orb, Force Siphon, Ele Drain, Combat prayer, Cleanse, etc. Unfortunately Stamina support seems to be limited to Templars as a design choice. I've been told Master Restoration Staff, the only stam support choice available to Sorcerors, currently does not restore Stamina on Live. I haven't tested or asked others about it on PTS.
I think this has been made clear, but the Maelstrom Restoration staff is just excellent, especially if you can roll a Precise one. Obtain it if you can. 10.1% Crit from one item? Yes please! Likewise, Slot a Kena piece if you have it. Even a poor healing trait such as Reinforced will improve your overall healing and damage.
These setups are by no means the only possible ones, or the only valid ones to put together. Of the selection presented, Twice-Born Star + Willpower stands out for its high effectiveness to both heal types. Again, these numbers were taken without Blessed, and can be pushed higher easily.What do the sorcerer summons HP scale with if anything? Sorcerer health or magicka or nothing? If they scale with magicka then even Clannfear will be useless for stamina builds.
The casting character's level and nothing else, I believe. It'd be cool if there could be a way we could affect it with gearing or morphs, as an alternative to Warding. Perhaps as a Stamina dichotomy in the future, stam summoners could increase hp or mitigation for their charges, while magicians ward and buff them instead?
Edited by Erraln on February 26, 2016 1:52PM2 -
Toast_STS✭✭✭✭Very nice research! Think you could crunch some numbers on the Morkudin pet too? I've been having fun with my pet build on xbox and am looking forward to the updates.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3bHeGaiamc VR14 DK Leaps-in-keeps0 -
olsborg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I didnt know the familiars pulse was boosted by thaumaturge, nice thanks for that info.
PC EU
PvP only0 -
olsborg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Its really wierd why none of the other pets (twilights and clannfear) dont scale off champion points. They really, really should.
Another thing I have issue with is pets scaling only off max magicka stat, not spelldmg (atronach is excluded)
Really inconsistent behavior of pets, i would love some more consistency.
PC EU
PvP only1 -
Thraben✭✭✭✭✭tony.augeb14_ESO wrote: »Very nice research! Think you could crunch some numbers on the Morkudin pet too? I've been having fun with my pet build on xbox and am looking forward to the updates.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3bHeGaiamc
I have made good use of a full magicka enchanted medium morkuldin armor - a 6-10k HoT with vigor is the perfect addition to your twilight healing.Edited by Thraben on February 27, 2016 10:45PMHauptmann der Dolche des Königs
DDK ist die letzte Verteidigungslinie des Dolchsturz- Bündnisses auf der 30-Tage-No-CP- Kampagne(EU) mit dem Anspruch, in kleinen, anfängerfreundlichen Raid-Gruppen möglichst epische Schlachten auszufechten.
DDK is the Daggerfall Covenant´s last line of defense on the 30 days no-cp campaign (EU). We intend to fight epic battles in small, casual player friendly raid groups.0 -
Erraln✭✭✭✭✭So, bit of bad news; the Volatile Familiar's Pulse does not scale with Daedric Prey currently. As a result I can't really recommend running Prey at all. The Greater Atronach isn't a strong enough Ultimate choice by itself to justify it, in many situations. I'll post details in the stickied bug thread soon. I'm a bit embarrassed to have not noticed that earlier in the PTS cycle
tony, I'll give that a look and post some figures from Live. I don't have access to Morkuldiin on PTS currently, as a NA player. Off the top of my head though, I think it operates like other sets with special effects. The power of the summoned weapon should be controlled by the level and quality of the item set, without regard to the summoner's stats.
Edited by Erraln on February 27, 2016 11:04PM2 -
Erraln✭✭✭✭✭So, preliminary Morkuldiin testing on Live shows it can be buffed by Daedric Prey and Combat Prayer, though not Conjured Ward, as it has no hp. Player stats have no effect on its damage, only set item level and quality. Doing some further testing 1
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lazytaco✭Hi,
I am still rather new to the game. I am using a build from a youtube vid called frag out for my first toon, a sorcerer.
The advice is to use lightning splash for aoe and not the familiar or clannflear. In this playstyle you often swap to resto staf. But then you lose your familiar so you have to recast it if you swap back. And somehow recasting it during a fight feels real slow. You could ofcourse if you get iin trouble swap to resto staff and cast heal springs, mutagen, encase, then swap back but by then you have hardly enough magicka to recast your familiar.
I just wonder if for pure aoe lightning splash isnt a lot more practical.
Edited by lazytaco on March 8, 2016 1:05AM0
