Why no damage changes now???

  • bowmanz607
    bowmanz607
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    Khaos_Bane wrote: »
    Some STA builds are ALREADY the highest DPS in the game, stop whining. How are people whining about STA ? Next patch STA will probably still be the highest DPS and even get buffed MORE with DB.

    Well if you have been on pts you know what is true on live is not Tru on the pts
  • bowmanz607
    bowmanz607
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    Alcast wrote: »
    Because stam builds are so devoid of damage?

    When I can kill someone in literally 1 second on my stamblade I don't think 25% less damage is going to be game breaking. It is perfectly possible to deliver 30k in damage in 1-1.2 secs right now.... reduce that by 25%.... still leaves 24k ish damage... what's the average health pool in cyro right now?

    So long as it is possible to achieve high wep damage so much easier than it is to do the same with spell damage, I don't think we need more ulties with Physical damage.

    Not everyone plays a FOTM stamblade....just sayin

    Ofcourse a Stamblade which is retared way too strong now does not loose too much...

    but the already weak stam classes are getting even weaker....

    I think you are underestimating the change to cloak. This change effects stam blade significantly. We're they need intonoblivi9n? No. But they can no longer be considered op or too strong.
  • bowmanz607
    bowmanz607
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    EsoRecon wrote: »
    this threads bickering is amusing....
    L2P all of u, no excuses

    Sorry but damage types ate not a l2p issue. It is a balance issue. There is no bickering. It is a discussion between people that agree and don't agree,
  • Zinaroth
    Zinaroth
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    Khaos_Bane wrote: »
    Some STA builds are ALREADY the highest DPS in the game, stop whining. How are people whining about STA ? Next patch STA will probably still be the highest DPS and even get buffed MORE with DB.

    The two higest DPS builds in the game are currently magicka. Educate yourself.
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  • bowmanz607
    bowmanz607
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    blabafat wrote: »
    Uh weapon damage is by FAR easier to stack than spell damage xD

    Ya but with mundus stone and set changes like kags and Julionos have closed that gap a lot. Also, mag builds have more utility and healing options. So where they lack 8n raw damage they make up for in other ways.
  • Khaos_Bane
    Khaos_Bane
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    Zinaroth wrote: »
    Khaos_Bane wrote: »
    Some STA builds are ALREADY the highest DPS in the game, stop whining. How are people whining about STA ? Next patch STA will probably still be the highest DPS and even get buffed MORE with DB.

    The two higest DPS builds in the game are currently magicka. Educate yourself.


    Not on live. And you are saying that STA should be highest DPS by default? You are pissed if MAG is on top because you feel STA should be ?
    Edited by Khaos_Bane on February 24, 2016 4:32PM
  • DHale
    DHale
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    actosh wrote: »
    The lack of softcaps and the missing counters to negate for example crit or pen will cause more imbalance over the years. Also cp system wasnt well thought out in the long run. It was and will be a high dps stack as much stuff as u can.
    A total overhaul would be needed but i given up on it.

    We had soft caps before balance was worse. One dk could literally tank and kill 15 ppl even one bad dk could hold 10 ppl for five minutes they would hold you in talons and whip you, you would dodge roll then you were out of Stam to be taloned again. Then bats would hit and you were dead. Negate used to stun now it does not it does nothing to ANY Stam build the counter to negate is bombard Steel tornado proxy det. Ppl asked for the perfectly fine veteran system to be replaced. The cp tree is thanks to qq ers. I like it and glad I have both... A least for now. If you are having problems getting critted then you can build against it there is nothing imbalanced about that.

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  • dsalter
    dsalter
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    DHale wrote: »
    actosh wrote: »
    The lack of softcaps and the missing counters to negate for example crit or pen will cause more imbalance over the years. Also cp system wasnt well thought out in the long run. It was and will be a high dps stack as much stuff as u can.
    A total overhaul would be needed but i given up on it.

    We had soft caps before balance was worse. One dk could literally tank and kill 15 ppl even one bad dk could hold 10 ppl for five minutes they would hold you in talons and whip you, you would dodge roll then you were out of Stam to be taloned again. Then bats would hit and you were dead. Negate used to stun now it does not it does nothing to ANY Stam build the counter to negate is bombard Steel tornado proxy det. Ppl asked for the perfectly fine veteran system to be replaced. The cp tree is thanks to qq ers. I like it and glad I have both... A least for now. If you are having problems getting critted then you can build against it there is nothing imbalanced about that.

    main reason soft caps sucked was due to how low they were set, when removed and cp thrown ontop it went overboard, we need softcaps back (set higher ofc) and with CP would be more balanced
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  • bowmanz607
    bowmanz607
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    Fact: mag dominated for a year
    Fact: Stam dominated for nearly a year
    Fact: mag will will be better than Stam thus update
    Fact: balance is not one dominates for a year, then the other and back again
    Fact: saying one dominated for a long period of time over another is not a justification for current imbalances
    Fact: weapon damage can get higher then mag
    Fact mag has more utility and heals
    Fact: weapon damage being more stackable does not mean that Stam has higher tool tip damage
    Fact: mag can get higher tool tip damage than Stam in tg because they can allocate into less stars to receive more damage on skills they use with different damage types.
    Fact: mag damage and spam damage can be equally mitigated
    Fact: mag can increase ult damage and skill damage in one star
    Fact: sram needs two split stars for ult damage/some skills and skill damage

    This is not a Stam was needed and qq thread. This is simply objectively looking at the facts about what is coming. I am not mad Stam got nerfed. Hell I don't even call it a nerf so much as fixing a broken champ tree.justifying no change to damage types because it is mag turn to dominate is poor logic and the game will never be balanced. Regardless, wrobell all but stated that damage type change will come in next patch. My question is, given the speed in which they changed a set pc trap damage from mag damage to poison in like a week, why can't these damages changes come in now? At least to a skill like flawless dawnbreaker which is obviously for Stam users. Why not throw us a bone to naw on until next update?
  • DHale
    DHale
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    bowmanz607 wrote: »
    Fact: mag dominated for a year
    Fact: Stam dominated for nearly a year
    Fact: mag will will be better than Stam thus update
    Fact: balance is not one dominates for a year, then the other and back again
    Fact: saying one dominated for a long period of time over another is not a justification for current imbalances
    Fact: weapon damage can get higher then mag
    Fact mag has more utility and heals
    Fact: weapon damage being more stackable does not mean that Stam has higher tool tip damage
    Fact: mag can get higher tool tip damage than Stam in tg because they can allocate into less stars to receive more damage on skills they use with different damage types.
    Fact: mag damage and spam damage can be equally mitigated
    Fact: mag can increase ult damage and skill damage in one star
    Fact: sram needs two split stars for ult damage/some skills and skill damage

    This is not a Stam was needed and qq thread. This is simply objectively looking at the facts about what is coming. I am not mad Stam got nerfed. Hell I don't even call it a nerf so much as fixing a broken champ tree.justifying no change to damage types because it is mag turn to dominate is poor logic and the game will never be balanced. Regardless, wrobell all but stated that damage type change will come in next patch. My question is, given the speed in which they changed a set pc trap damage from mag damage to poison in like a week, why can't these damages changes come in now? At least to a skill like flawless dawnbreaker which is obviously for Stam users. Why not throw us a bone to naw on until next update?

    Those are not facts they are opinions. Please cite your sources. There is no evidence magic will be better there is no spell or magic weapon ability better than the typical Stam weapon or Stam ability. Let's use Destro staff since all have access to it fire ring does half damage after 10 seconds the damage of one steel tornado does instantly. Crushing shock does less the damage of one flying blade. Stam abilities even if you maxed the physical resistance cp tree i.e. surprise attack, wrecking blow currently are and will still the hardest hitting abilities in the game before or after the patch. Furthermore, since fire ring as the previous example is a elemental damage it is also a dot requiring I spec into 2 different cp trees just like I have to do now. Right now on live I have 100 in thaumaturge on my magic Templar and 67 in elemental expert since I use a fire staff. After the patch I will have 100 in elemental expert and 67 in dots since now my sweeps and the for mentioned fire ring are affected by this tree. There is NO difference... None. For my class and build and play style the only buff is directly to class abilities: flare, vampire bane, and the sweeps nerf and the javelin distance buff. Since, I do not use vampires bane nor flare it is irrelevant My sweeps were nerfed via the 5 percent heal and the javelin is a wash as the distance was not the benefit it was the knock back. I use defensive stance so the dark flare cast time (delay) will help me reflect the dark flare right back to you so good luck with that. As you can can surmise I am not expecting any buffs for my Templar.

    Vigor is better than green dragon blood and just as good as healing ward. Vigor can be used by any and every class. No specific weapon needs to be carried or used or slotted. It is my expectation that this patch will produce more balance between Stam and magic than any patch before. Will it affect my particular build class or playstyle... Yes! It's a small net nerf. I will need to run with a rune slotted and throw it down essentially every 8 seconds. I can't wait.

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    #SORCLIVESMATTER actually they don’t or they wouldn’t keep getting nerfed constantly.
  • bowmanz607
    bowmanz607
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    DHale wrote: »
    bowmanz607 wrote: »
    Fact: mag dominated for a year
    Fact: Stam dominated for nearly a year
    Fact: mag will will be better than Stam thus update
    Fact: balance is not one dominates for a year, then the other and back again
    Fact: saying one dominated for a long period of time over another is not a justification for current imbalances
    Fact: weapon damage can get higher then mag
    Fact mag has more utility and heals
    Fact: weapon damage being more stackable does not mean that Stam has higher tool tip damage
    Fact: mag can get higher tool tip damage than Stam in tg because they can allocate into less stars to receive more damage on skills they use with different damage types.
    Fact: mag damage and spam damage can be equally mitigated
    Fact: mag can increase ult damage and skill damage in one star
    Fact: sram needs two split stars for ult damage/some skills and skill damage

    This is not a Stam was needed and qq thread. This is simply objectively looking at the facts about what is coming. I am not mad Stam got nerfed. Hell I don't even call it a nerf so much as fixing a broken champ tree.justifying no change to damage types because it is mag turn to dominate is poor logic and the game will never be balanced. Regardless, wrobell all but stated that damage type change will come in next patch. My question is, given the speed in which they changed a set pc trap damage from mag damage to poison in like a week, why can't these damages changes come in now? At least to a skill like flawless dawnbreaker which is obviously for Stam users. Why not throw us a bone to naw on until next update?

    Those are not facts they are opinions. Please cite your sources. There is no evidence magic will be better there is no spell or magic weapon ability better than the typical Stam weapon or Stam ability. Let's use Destro staff since all have access to it fire ring does half damage after 10 seconds the damage of one steel tornado does instantly. Crushing shock does less the damage of one flying blade. Stam abilities even if you maxed the physical resistance cp tree i.e. surprise attack, wrecking blow currently are and will still the hardest hitting abilities in the game before or after the patch. Furthermore, since fire ring as the previous example is a elemental damage it is also a dot requiring I spec into 2 different cp trees just like I have to do now. Right now on live I have 100 in thaumaturge on my magic Templar and 67 in elemental expert since I use a fire staff. After the patch I will have 100 in elemental expert and 67 in dots since now my sweeps and the for mentioned fire ring are affected by this tree. There is NO difference... None. For my class and build and play style the only buff is directly to class abilities: flare, vampire bane, and the sweeps nerf and the javelin distance buff. Since, I do not use vampires bane nor flare it is irrelevant My sweeps were nerfed via the 5 percent heal and the javelin is a wash as the distance was not the benefit it was the knock back. I use defensive stance so the dark flare cast time (delay) will help me reflect the dark flare right back to you so good luck with that. As you can can surmise I am not expecting any buffs for my Templar.

    Vigor is better than green dragon blood and just as good as healing ward. Vigor can be used by any and every class. No specific weapon needs to be carried or used or slotted. It is my expectation that this patch will produce more balance between Stam and magic than any patch before. Will it affect my particular build class or playstyle... Yes! It's a small net nerf. I will need to run with a rune slotted and throw it down essentially every 8 seconds. I can't wait.

    1. wall of elements will be mag go to aoe. pretty powerful ability now.
    2. did you forget about crystal frags? or dark flare damage now? or the changes to whip etc? Additionally, ALL classes have viable dps abilities etc in the mag form. Therefore, comparing desto abilities to stam weapon abilities is not proper because classes use their class dps when they are runnning mag builds. Whereas, many stam builds turn to weapon skills. Your juxtaposition of the two weapon types is flawed.
    3. you hit the nail on the head with champ tree comparison to elemental ring. However, this supports my argument that mag increased its effectivness. Now there is two ways to increase elemental ring instead of one, plus you increase mag damage at the same time. lets also add into the fact that people MAY put less into defending against mag damage, now that there are more viable options.
    4. dont go bringing class issues into the thread. You cant justify changes to the game because their are issues to a class. that also needs to be looked at in conjunction with what i am suggesting.
    5. GDB is a joke. we all know that. again justifying class issues to not make other changes is illogical
    6. I think your mention of healing ward v. vigor is fair. But you miss what i am saying. I am not saying that there is a HUGE difference between mag and stam. In fact this is the closest balance we have had between the two since launch. There are simply some leftover problems that need to be dealed with. this leftover isues favor mag builds over stam. I am saying that gap needs to be closed.
    7. i dont understand where you ended up going with your post. You start out by stating that my stated facts are opinions. You then when on to say how they are balanced for the most part etc. I agree with that. For the most part they are balanced. I am honing in on the leftovers. Based on the champion point layout and the mere fact that mag can boost ult damage means more than stam gives mag the edge. please point out exactly what points you are challenging.
  • Khaos_Bane
    Khaos_Bane
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    bowmanz607 wrote: »
    Khaos_Bane wrote: »
    Some STA builds are ALREADY the highest DPS in the game, stop whining. How are people whining about STA ? Next patch STA will probably still be the highest DPS and even get buffed MORE with DB.

    Well if you have been on pts you know what is true on live is not Tru on the pts

    STA Weapon skills have not been nerfed and it's STILL PTS. I have a feeling a lot of people are going to QQ if MAG competes for DPS.
  • bowmanz607
    bowmanz607
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Khaos_Bane wrote: »
    bowmanz607 wrote: »
    Khaos_Bane wrote: »
    Some STA builds are ALREADY the highest DPS in the game, stop whining. How are people whining about STA ? Next patch STA will probably still be the highest DPS and even get buffed MORE with DB.

    Well if you have been on pts you know what is true on live is not Tru on the pts

    STA Weapon skills have not been nerfed and it's STILL PTS. I have a feeling a lot of people are going to QQ if MAG competes for DPS.

    the issue was never how hard abilities themself hit for between the mag a stam. the issue has always been that the champ tree favored stam builds. the gap has been significantly closed. However, the champ tree favors mag builds now because of the certain damage types such as ults. It is about haveing a level playing field for both to compete on.

    Facts are facts. No matter your opinion on the matter. The absolute fact is that at a very minimum mag and stam builds will not be competing on a level playing field because of of ult damage type scaling with mag damage star. There is no disputing that. It is 100% a fact.

    Why people seem to keep bringing in the thought process of what is curently on live into a thread that is under the PTS and obviously meant for forward thinking on what will be on live.

    The only argument people seem to fall back on is "well stam dominated so we should now," (illogical mentality) or "the game is much more balanced now then on live." (agreed to, but does not mean it is completely balanced.)

    please give me one logical objective argument on why damage for ults should not have morphs for stam builds, or why camo should do mag damage over another type, or why scroched earth should remain fire damage, or why killers blade does mag damage. It is illogical for these to remain magic damage. Wrobell all but admitted this and the change is coming.

    The point of the thread is to ask why we cant at a minimum change flawless dawn breaker damage type for this update? I tried to shut down their time and resources argument by showing that they were able to quickly change 5 pc set damage from mag to poison. They ccan do it. the question is why wont they?
  • RoyJade
    RoyJade
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    I really think that elemental expert and mighty shouldn't boost some damage type, but all damage who scale on magicka/stamina. No more problem with fire damage as a stam dk/bow user, no more problem with killer blade and other magic damage stamina attack, no more problem with ultimates...
    If they do such a thing, ZOS will need to tweak some things (some magicka attack and ultimate would do insane damage as a stam user, same for leap as a magDK and some other), but I think it will be better both for diversity (fire bow attack? Apart for damage, yes, it's cool !) and for balance.
  • PhatGrimReaper
    PhatGrimReaper
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    ub17_ESO wrote: »
    Because stam builds are so devoid of damage?

    When I can kill someone in literally 1 second on my stamblade I don't think 25% less damage is going to be game breaking. It is perfectly possible to deliver 30k in damage in 1-1.2 secs right now.... reduce that by 25%.... still leaves 24k ish damage... what's the average health pool in cyro right now?

    So long as it is possible to achieve high wep damage so much easier than it is to do the same with spell damage, I don't think we need more ulties with Physical damage.

    Not all of us playing NB...
    Alcast wrote: »
    Because stam builds are so devoid of damage?

    When I can kill someone in literally 1 second on my stamblade I don't think 25% less damage is going to be game breaking. It is perfectly possible to deliver 30k in damage in 1-1.2 secs right now.... reduce that by 25%.... still leaves 24k ish damage... what's the average health pool in cyro right now?

    So long as it is possible to achieve high wep damage so much easier than it is to do the same with spell damage, I don't think we need more ulties with Physical damage.

    Not everyone plays a FOTM stamblade....just sayin

    Ofcourse a Stamblade which is retared way too strong now does not loose too much...

    but the already weak stam classes are getting even weaker....

    Don't always assume... I play all classes. My nightblade has only been stam for 2 days.... thought I would give it a try before it gets the nerf hammer :smiley:
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  • dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO
    DHale wrote: »
    bowmanz607 wrote: »
    Fact: mag dominated for a year
    Fact: Stam dominated for nearly a year
    Fact: mag will will be better than Stam thus update
    Fact: balance is not one dominates for a year, then the other and back again
    Fact: saying one dominated for a long period of time over another is not a justification for current imbalances
    Fact: weapon damage can get higher then mag
    Fact mag has more utility and heals
    Fact: weapon damage being more stackable does not mean that Stam has higher tool tip damage
    Fact: mag can get higher tool tip damage than Stam in tg because they can allocate into less stars to receive more damage on skills they use with different damage types.
    Fact: mag damage and spam damage can be equally mitigated
    Fact: mag can increase ult damage and skill damage in one star
    Fact: sram needs two split stars for ult damage/some skills and skill damage

    This is not a Stam was needed and qq thread. This is simply objectively looking at the facts about what is coming. I am not mad Stam got nerfed. Hell I don't even call it a nerf so much as fixing a broken champ tree.justifying no change to damage types because it is mag turn to dominate is poor logic and the game will never be balanced. Regardless, wrobell all but stated that damage type change will come in next patch. My question is, given the speed in which they changed a set pc trap damage from mag damage to poison in like a week, why can't these damages changes come in now? At least to a skill like flawless dawnbreaker which is obviously for Stam users. Why not throw us a bone to naw on until next update?

    Those are not facts they are opinions. Please cite your sources. There is no evidence magic will be better there is no spell or magic weapon ability better than the typical Stam weapon or Stam ability. Let's use Destro staff since all have access to it fire ring does half damage after 10 seconds the damage of one steel tornado does instantly. Crushing shock does less the damage of one flying blade. Stam abilities even if you maxed the physical resistance cp tree i.e. surprise attack, wrecking blow currently are and will still the hardest hitting abilities in the game before or after the patch. Furthermore, since fire ring as the previous example is a elemental damage it is also a dot requiring I spec into 2 different cp trees just like I have to do now. Right now on live I have 100 in thaumaturge on my magic Templar and 67 in elemental expert since I use a fire staff. After the patch I will have 100 in elemental expert and 67 in dots since now my sweeps and the for mentioned fire ring are affected by this tree. There is NO difference... None. For my class and build and play style the only buff is directly to class abilities: flare, vampire bane, and the sweeps nerf and the javelin distance buff. Since, I do not use vampires bane nor flare it is irrelevant My sweeps were nerfed via the 5 percent heal and the javelin is a wash as the distance was not the benefit it was the knock back. I use defensive stance so the dark flare cast time (delay) will help me reflect the dark flare right back to you so good luck with that. As you can can surmise I am not expecting any buffs for my Templar.

    Vigor is better than green dragon blood and just as good as healing ward. Vigor can be used by any and every class. No specific weapon needs to be carried or used or slotted. It is my expectation that this patch will produce more balance between Stam and magic than any patch before. Will it affect my particular build class or playstyle... Yes! It's a small net nerf. I will need to run with a rune slotted and throw it down essentially every 8 seconds. I can't wait.

    sweeps was actually greatly buffed because it gets more damage from the new damage over time cp( as well as radient destruction), channels that damage are dots. thats a possible 25% more damage with enough cp.



  • Turelus
    Turelus
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    TBH I am predicting they're holding back any changes to damage/caps/gear for patch 3.0 which I would guess would be VR removal as well.
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  • Master_Kas
    Master_Kas
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Khaos_Bane wrote: »
    Alcast wrote: »
    Because stam builds are so devoid of damage?

    When I can kill someone in literally 1 second on my stamblade I don't think 25% less damage is going to be game breaking. It is perfectly possible to deliver 30k in damage in 1-1.2 secs right now.... reduce that by 25%.... still leaves 24k ish damage... what's the average health pool in cyro right now?

    So long as it is possible to achieve high wep damage so much easier than it is to do the same with spell damage, I don't think we need more ulties with Physical damage.

    Not everyone plays a FOTM stamblade....just sayin

    Ofcourse a Stamblade which is retared way too strong now does not loose too much...

    but the already weak stam classes are getting even weaker....
    Not really. They just need some parity in ultimates and CP with changes to removing MAG from skill in favor of poison/disease. STA still has some of the best AoE and ST burst skills in the game.

    Stamina still has some of the best AoE burst?

    Tell that to the magicka nb/sorc with proxy det/sap/impulse and vicious death :trollface:
    Edited by Master_Kas on February 25, 2016 2:07PM
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  • bowmanz607
    bowmanz607
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    Turelus wrote: »
    TBH I am predicting they're holding back any changes to damage/caps/gear for patch 3.0 which I would guess would be VR removal as well.

    maybe by then we will finally be out of the beta of this game :)
  • DHale
    DHale
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    DHale wrote: »
    bowmanz607 wrote: »
    Fact: mag dominated for a year
    Fact: Stam dominated for nearly a year
    Fact: mag will will be better than Stam thus update
    Fact: balance is not one dominates for a year, then the other and back again
    Fact: saying one dominated for a long period of time over another is not a justification for current imbalances
    Fact: weapon damage can get higher then mag
    Fact mag has more utility and heals
    Fact: weapon damage being more stackable does not mean that Stam has higher tool tip damage
    Fact: mag can get higher tool tip damage than Stam in tg because they can allocate into less stars to receive more damage on skills they use with different damage types.
    Fact: mag damage and spam damage can be equally mitigated
    Fact: mag can increase ult damage and skill damage in one star
    Fact: sram needs two split stars for ult damage/some skills and skill damage

    This is not a Stam was needed and qq thread. This is simply objectively looking at the facts about what is coming. I am not mad Stam got nerfed. Hell I don't even call it a nerf so much as fixing a broken champ tree.justifying no change to damage types because it is mag turn to dominate is poor logic and the game will never be balanced. Regardless, wrobell all but stated that damage type change will come in next patch. My question is, given the speed in which they changed a set pc trap damage from mag damage to poison in like a week, why can't these damages changes come in now? At least to a skill like flawless dawnbreaker which is obviously for Stam users. Why not throw us a bone to naw on until next update?

    Those are not facts they are opinions. Please cite your sources. There is no evidence magic will be better there is no spell or magic weapon ability better than the typical Stam weapon or Stam ability. Let's use Destro staff since all have access to it fire ring does half damage after 10 seconds the damage of one steel tornado does instantly. Crushing shock does less the damage of one flying blade. Stam abilities even if you maxed the physical resistance cp tree i.e. surprise attack, wrecking blow currently are and will still the hardest hitting abilities in the game before or after the patch. Furthermore, since fire ring as the previous example is a elemental damage it is also a dot requiring I spec into 2 different cp trees just like I have to do now. Right now on live I have 100 in thaumaturge on my magic Templar and 67 in elemental expert since I use a fire staff. After the patch I will have 100 in elemental expert and 67 in dots since now my sweeps and the for mentioned fire ring are affected by this tree. There is NO difference... None. For my class and build and play style the only buff is directly to class abilities: flare, vampire bane, and the sweeps nerf and the javelin distance buff. Since, I do not use vampires bane nor flare it is irrelevant My sweeps were nerfed via the 5 percent heal and the javelin is a wash as the distance was not the benefit it was the knock back. I use defensive stance so the dark flare cast time (delay) will help me reflect the dark flare right back to you so good luck with that. As you can can surmise I am not expecting any buffs for my Templar.

    Vigor is better than green dragon blood and just as good as healing ward. Vigor can be used by any and every class. No specific weapon needs to be carried or used or slotted. It is my expectation that this patch will produce more balance between Stam and magic than any patch before. Will it affect my particular build class or playstyle... Yes! It's a small net nerf. I will need to run with a rune slotted and throw it down essentially every 8 seconds. I can't wait.

    sweeps was actually greatly buffed because it gets more damage from the new damage over time cp( as well as radient destruction), channels that damage are dots. thats a possible 25% more damage with enough cp.



    Just tried it I do less damage than live by a signifigant factor. I don't use radiant oppression on my build not against using it just don't. FYI I used giants and mamoths in EP rift as part Caldwell silver area. I used combat log and compared with FTC damage report to record my damage. 100 in thaumaturge rest in damage over tine effects on live. 100 in elemental rest in damage over time effects. It's about a loss of 271 to 809 dps loss as the range and about 440 loss avg per sweep. The variability was accounted for by burning light procs and critical hits. This makes the nerf to healing even more pronounced. Less damage less heals which was reduced 5 percent. In no cirmunstances was there a dps increase or any buff I can measure or record. I did not use any buff except tri food to boost my magic. Again a nerf, I assume if your build includes vampires bane or dark flare you may experience an increase in dps but I don't run any of the abilities impacted by the patch. Nothing that will prompt me to continue playing my Templar. Btw I used 300 cp maximum for both tests.

    Sorcerna, proud beta sorc.
    RIP April 2014 to May 31 2016 DArk Brotherhood. Out of retirement for negates and encases.
    Sorcerna will be going back into retirement to be my main crafter Fall 2018. Beacuse a 6 k shield is f ing useless.
    Died because of baddies on the forum. Too much qq too little pew pew.
    16 AD 2 DC. 0 EP cause they bad, CP 1444 plus 16 level 50 toons.
    NA, PC, Kaal
    #SORCLIVESMATTER actually they don’t or they wouldn’t keep getting nerfed constantly.
  • LorDrek
    LorDrek
    ✭✭✭
    Detector wrote: »
    Maybe when Light armor increases SD by 12%........?

    No.

    Max Magicka > Max Stamina
    Weapon Damage > Spell Damage

    It's balance. If you want more SD, I want more Stamina.

    Nice true.

    Imperial DK stamDPS, Nord DK magTANK
    YDoA CZ/SK Guild
    @LorDrek
  • LorDrek
    LorDrek
    ✭✭✭
    Magicka builds use dw swords, more SD.
    Imperial DK stamDPS, Nord DK magTANK
    YDoA CZ/SK Guild
    @LorDrek
  • actosh
    actosh
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Zenimax needs to do a complete overhaul of values,scaling and all the ohter stuff. Right now its just band aid fixes that wont help much.

    If someone ever is goin to post feedback for this it will be a loooong post.
    Edited by actosh on February 26, 2016 10:22AM
  • Destruent
    Destruent
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    DHale wrote: »
    DHale wrote: »
    bowmanz607 wrote: »
    Fact: mag dominated for a year
    Fact: Stam dominated for nearly a year
    Fact: mag will will be better than Stam thus update
    Fact: balance is not one dominates for a year, then the other and back again
    Fact: saying one dominated for a long period of time over another is not a justification for current imbalances
    Fact: weapon damage can get higher then mag
    Fact mag has more utility and heals
    Fact: weapon damage being more stackable does not mean that Stam has higher tool tip damage
    Fact: mag can get higher tool tip damage than Stam in tg because they can allocate into less stars to receive more damage on skills they use with different damage types.
    Fact: mag damage and spam damage can be equally mitigated
    Fact: mag can increase ult damage and skill damage in one star
    Fact: sram needs two split stars for ult damage/some skills and skill damage

    This is not a Stam was needed and qq thread. This is simply objectively looking at the facts about what is coming. I am not mad Stam got nerfed. Hell I don't even call it a nerf so much as fixing a broken champ tree.justifying no change to damage types because it is mag turn to dominate is poor logic and the game will never be balanced. Regardless, wrobell all but stated that damage type change will come in next patch. My question is, given the speed in which they changed a set pc trap damage from mag damage to poison in like a week, why can't these damages changes come in now? At least to a skill like flawless dawnbreaker which is obviously for Stam users. Why not throw us a bone to naw on until next update?

    Those are not facts they are opinions. Please cite your sources. There is no evidence magic will be better there is no spell or magic weapon ability better than the typical Stam weapon or Stam ability. Let's use Destro staff since all have access to it fire ring does half damage after 10 seconds the damage of one steel tornado does instantly. Crushing shock does less the damage of one flying blade. Stam abilities even if you maxed the physical resistance cp tree i.e. surprise attack, wrecking blow currently are and will still the hardest hitting abilities in the game before or after the patch. Furthermore, since fire ring as the previous example is a elemental damage it is also a dot requiring I spec into 2 different cp trees just like I have to do now. Right now on live I have 100 in thaumaturge on my magic Templar and 67 in elemental expert since I use a fire staff. After the patch I will have 100 in elemental expert and 67 in dots since now my sweeps and the for mentioned fire ring are affected by this tree. There is NO difference... None. For my class and build and play style the only buff is directly to class abilities: flare, vampire bane, and the sweeps nerf and the javelin distance buff. Since, I do not use vampires bane nor flare it is irrelevant My sweeps were nerfed via the 5 percent heal and the javelin is a wash as the distance was not the benefit it was the knock back. I use defensive stance so the dark flare cast time (delay) will help me reflect the dark flare right back to you so good luck with that. As you can can surmise I am not expecting any buffs for my Templar.

    Vigor is better than green dragon blood and just as good as healing ward. Vigor can be used by any and every class. No specific weapon needs to be carried or used or slotted. It is my expectation that this patch will produce more balance between Stam and magic than any patch before. Will it affect my particular build class or playstyle... Yes! It's a small net nerf. I will need to run with a rune slotted and throw it down essentially every 8 seconds. I can't wait.

    sweeps was actually greatly buffed because it gets more damage from the new damage over time cp( as well as radient destruction), channels that damage are dots. thats a possible 25% more damage with enough cp.



    Just tried it I do less damage than live by a signifigant factor. I don't use radiant oppression on my build not against using it just don't. FYI I used giants and mamoths in EP rift as part Caldwell silver area. I used combat log and compared with FTC damage report to record my damage. 100 in thaumaturge rest in damage over tine effects on live. 100 in elemental rest in damage over time effects. It's about a loss of 271 to 809 dps loss as the range and about 440 loss avg per sweep. The variability was accounted for by burning light procs and critical hits. This makes the nerf to healing even more pronounced. Less damage less heals which was reduced 5 percent. In no cirmunstances was there a dps increase or any buff I can measure or record. I did not use any buff except tri food to boost my magic. Again a nerf, I assume if your build includes vampires bane or dark flare you may experience an increase in dps but I don't run any of the abilities impacted by the patch. Nothing that will prompt me to continue playing my Templar. Btw I used 300 cp maximum for both tests.

    If you only use 300CP you cannot put 100 in Ele-Expert/Thaumaturg and the rest in dot-dmg...bc there's nothing left. There is also no DoT-dmg-perk on live, so maybe you should put some points in critdmg? Anyways...templars benefit from this change when they are above 300CP bc they can boost the base-damage of their spamability/execute even further, no other class can do this.
    Maybe test it again with 501CP?
    On Live: 25% Base-damage increase (thaumaturge)+ 19% Critdamage increase (Elfborn)
    On PTS: 40% Base-damage increase /thaumaturge, elemental expert)+ 7,5% more critdamage
    So you loose 11,5% critdamage to gain 15% base damage...should be a DPS-increase

    This difference may seem small, but on live you can improve your critdmg bei only 6% with further CP, with the changes on PTS we are able to raise the base-damage by 10% and critdmg by 17,5%...
    Noobplar
  • Francescolg
    Francescolg
    ✭✭✭✭
    bowmanz607 wrote: »
    Magicka dominated the first year of this game.
    Nono, steel tornado and stamina equipment was already there in aug/sept 2014! Think about the pvp sets as the one with the +600 weapon dmg proc, etc. etc.. I'll not repeat again why itemization in ESO has always been pro-stamina MOST of the time + the Ultimate which passively raises weapon power, as another user already pointed out: Stamina has been on the sunny side a looong time, remember bow-ganking back in late 2014.., or "new" race boni, like 30% stamina reg (now 20%).

    The developers made so many goodies for stamina since fall 2014, that I don't bother to mention them all.

    Edited by Francescolg on February 26, 2016 1:59PM
  • bowmanz607
    bowmanz607
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    bowmanz607 wrote: »
    Magicka dominated the first year of this game.
    Nono, steel tornado and stamina equipment was already there in aug/sept 2014! Think about the pvp sets as the one with the +600 weapon dmg proc, etc. etc.. I'll not repeat again why itemization in ESO has always been pro-stamina MOST of the time + the Ultimate which passively raises weapon power, as another user already pointed out: Stamina has been on the sunny side a looong time, remember bow-ganking back in late 2014.., or "new" race boni, like 30% stamina reg (now 20%).

    The developers made so many goodies for stamina since fall 2014, that I don't bother to mention them all.

    ok if you were here in the first year then you would remember that it was all about mag until 1.5 which mad stam somewhat viable compared to mag and then tamerial unlimited with the introduction of champ points flipped it. The main reason for this was because ALL class skills were mag based. Sure you could stack weapon damage and what not easier, but not only were the viable skills all mag based, but also the soft caps prevented any advantage thatmight be possible and therefore it never was actually possible. Lets add into the fact that tanks could run around in light armor and tank better. Many of the weapon skills that do what they do now did not do those things then. You talk about snipe for instance. do you remember when snipe had a 3 sec cast time? At best a stam build was running a bow gank build to do some damage. They could not stand toe to toe with anyone though. All a ganker had was that one shot. The best stam builds found a way to be hybrid and was able to pull from their skill trees in an effective manner. Again, this goes to show that even stam builds had to rely on mag based abilities to survive, and even then it was rough sledding.

    Bottom line is that if you are trying to say that mag did not dominate for a year, then well you are simply wrong. Were you even playing in the first year? Anyone who was would never try to make that claim. Heck, I remember when you could not even get a trial or hard dungeon invite unless you were running "skirt and stick builds." This was also at the same time that noone wanted to group with nb until they realized they needed veil of blades.

    Weapon damage was capped higher because it was the only type of damage used by stam back in the day. it was easier to stack weapon damage cause ti was capped higher. However, for one thing it was not all about stacking damage because reasource management was actually a thing back then. hence the reason the warlock set was the most sought after set. ALso, mag builds utilized weapon damage because all weapons were based off of it. So even if you stacked points into spell damage, you still wanted some int weapon for your desto/resto damage. So sure weapon damage may have been cappped higher, but mag build were utilizing both types of damage where stam builds were utilizing only weapon damage.

    Again, you are simply wrong if you think mag did not dominate for a year.
  • dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO
    bowmanz607 wrote: »
    With the exception of ults, I can sort of see what you mean, however, when you take into account the entire PVP environment in the upcoming patch, I think you'll find that stam is in a stronger position with the changes to mobility and siege. Magicka builds are profoundly more affected by the changes to Retreating and stam damage from siege than stam users. I think you'll find that it will balance itself out in a rather messy way.

    I see your point. But mag builds also have a whole lot utility and heals available to them along with abilities like purge. Where you lack in mobility you gain in other ways. On a side note, I'm sure we will see more ppl using charging maneuvers now.

    vigor is the best heal in the game after BOL so tagging magica with the utility of heals is total nonsense
  • bowmanz607
    bowmanz607
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    bowmanz607 wrote: »
    With the exception of ults, I can sort of see what you mean, however, when you take into account the entire PVP environment in the upcoming patch, I think you'll find that stam is in a stronger position with the changes to mobility and siege. Magicka builds are profoundly more affected by the changes to Retreating and stam damage from siege than stam users. I think you'll find that it will balance itself out in a rather messy way.

    I see your point. But mag builds also have a whole lot utility and heals available to them along with abilities like purge. Where you lack in mobility you gain in other ways. On a side note, I'm sure we will see more ppl using charging maneuvers now.

    vigor is the best heal in the game after BOL so tagging magica with the utility of heals is total nonsense

    U would take healing ward over vigor. Plus mutagenesis ticks for about the same. Nb strife heals about the same. Sorc critical heals and dark magic heals heal about the same. Dk heals next patch will be better. I ya, Sorc pets next update. Not to mention the variety of heals with rest staff.

    Bottom line is mag builds have class skills as well as rest skills to pull from. This creates more build diversity and optiins.
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