kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

I'm not entitled my Assassin classed assassin play style based assassin often assassinations people that's a no fight play style.

bowmanz607 wrote: »

cool story bro.

the thing is i never said a nb could not be played another way. I was simply stating the intent behind the design of the class. You can play a nb however you want, but i am speaking to the the point behind the design of the nb.

Additionally, i would love to see your 14k crit swallow soul in pvp. I simply dont believe that. how about enlightening me on that? Especially when leeching plate gives nothing in the way of spell damage and the fact that most players spec into reducing mag damage. please enlighten me on your 14k crit swallow soul in pvp. not to mention not utilizing stealth damage bonuses this should be fun.

also, i agree with your logic in your 3rd paragraph. i do the same sorts of things with my guild. Using heavy armor you dont need to be as elusive b/c you mitigate more damage. I follow your logic that you have laid out in that paragraph in how to win a fight. I just do it utlizing things like cloak to reposition in the fight etc. 2 different approaches for the same outcome.

my point is that the design concept of a nb is not to face tank. not saying you cant, but that is not the lore nor the concept for their creation.

Autolycus wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

cool story bro.

the thing is i never said a nb could not be played another way. I was simply stating the intent behind the design of the class. You can play a nb however you want, but i am speaking to the the point behind the design of the nb.

Additionally, i would love to see your 14k crit swallow soul in pvp. I simply dont believe that. how about enlightening me on that? Especially when leeching plate gives nothing in the way of spell damage and the fact that most players spec into reducing mag damage. please enlighten me on your 14k crit swallow soul in pvp. not to mention not utilizing stealth damage bonuses this should be fun.

also, i agree with your logic in your 3rd paragraph. i do the same sorts of things with my guild. Using heavy armor you dont need to be as elusive b/c you mitigate more damage. I follow your logic that you have laid out in that paragraph in how to win a fight. I just do it utlizing things like cloak to reposition in the fight etc. 2 different approaches for the same outcome.

my point is that the design concept of a nb is not to face tank. not saying you cant, but that is not the lore nor the concept for their creation.

It seems to me that what you were saying is that there is only one way to play the NB class, and you backed that up with a couple of fluff sentences that cater only to a particular playstyle. If that's not what you meant to imply, you should have worded it differently. I face tank people with my full light-armor magblade all the time; when I run with my guild I'm usually the bait for gankers, because I'm good at surviving them and turning the tide, which stems from a deeper understanding of all classes. To ignore the viability and existence of other builds (and how they were designed to be played) is only limiting your ability to truly understand (and therefore counter) those playstyles.

And really, it doesn't matter to me if you believe my 14k swallow soul or not. It happens daily, and it's really fun to see someone's health drop by half or more in a single cast; I will do it regardless of whether or not you believe it to be true. Of course, it's not like every single swallow soul crits, and some of them are empowered, or buffed through soul harvest, etc but one thing is consistent, and it's that I don't attack from stealth, therefore I don't utilize stealth damage bonuses. I have very high spell power and max magicka, a high crit chance, I use the shadow mundus to buff crit damage, and I have maelstrom weapons. It shouldn't be that surprising to see a 14k crit swallow soul considering how common it is for WB to hit for just as much (and these aren't the only skills capable of these numbers, either).

You're saying the concept for their creation and the lore that backs NBs is so narrowly focused on only stealth and gank capabilities, but that concept is inherently flawed. Did I take my tank build or my magblade build and code it into the game myself? No. ZOS designed and implemented it, and I simply play it. Therefore, the lore and concepts backing the class design are intended to be more than just hide-n-seek gank playstyles, To ignore this aspect of the class and its viability is simply stubborn.

Autolycus wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

cool story bro.

the thing is i never said a nb could not be played another way. I was simply stating the intent behind the design of the class. You can play a nb however you want, but i am speaking to the the point behind the design of the nb.

Additionally, i would love to see your 14k crit swallow soul in pvp. I simply dont believe that. how about enlightening me on that? Especially when leeching plate gives nothing in the way of spell damage and the fact that most players spec into reducing mag damage. please enlighten me on your 14k crit swallow soul in pvp. not to mention not utilizing stealth damage bonuses this should be fun.

also, i agree with your logic in your 3rd paragraph. i do the same sorts of things with my guild. Using heavy armor you dont need to be as elusive b/c you mitigate more damage. I follow your logic that you have laid out in that paragraph in how to win a fight. I just do it utlizing things like cloak to reposition in the fight etc. 2 different approaches for the same outcome.

my point is that the design concept of a nb is not to face tank. not saying you cant, but that is not the lore nor the concept for their creation.

It seems to me that what you were saying is that there is only one way to play the NB class, and you backed that up with a couple of fluff sentences that cater only to a particular playstyle. If that's not what you meant to imply, you should have worded it differently. I face tank people with my full light-armor magblade all the time; when I run with my guild I'm usually the bait for gankers, because I'm good at surviving them and turning the tide, which stems from a deeper understanding of all classes. To ignore the viability and existence of other builds (and how they were designed to be played) is only limiting your ability to truly understand (and therefore counter) those playstyles.

And really, it doesn't matter to me if you believe my 14k swallow soul or not. It happens daily, and it's really fun to see someone's health drop by half or more in a single cast; I will do it regardless of whether or not you believe it to be true. Of course, it's not like every single swallow soul crits, and some of them are empowered, or buffed through soul harvest, etc but one thing is consistent, and it's that I don't attack from stealth, therefore I don't utilize stealth damage bonuses. I have very high spell power and max magicka, a high crit chance, I use the shadow mundus to buff crit damage, and I have maelstrom weapons. It shouldn't be that surprising to see a 14k crit swallow soul considering how common it is for WB to hit for just as much (and these aren't the only skills capable of these numbers, either).

You're saying the concept for their creation and the lore that backs NBs is so narrowly focused on only stealth and gank capabilities, but that concept is inherently flawed. Did I take my tank build or my magblade build and code it into the game myself? No. ZOS designed and implemented it, and I simply play it. Therefore, the lore and concepts backing the class design are intended to be more than just hide-n-seek gank playstyles, To ignore this aspect of the class and its viability is simply stubborn.

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

cool story bro.

the thing is i never said a nb could not be played another way. I was simply stating the intent behind the design of the class. You can play a nb however you want, but i am speaking to the the point behind the design of the nb.

Additionally, i would love to see your 14k crit swallow soul in pvp. I simply dont believe that. how about enlightening me on that? Especially when leeching plate gives nothing in the way of spell damage and the fact that most players spec into reducing mag damage. please enlighten me on your 14k crit swallow soul in pvp. not to mention not utilizing stealth damage bonuses this should be fun.

also, i agree with your logic in your 3rd paragraph. i do the same sorts of things with my guild. Using heavy armor you dont need to be as elusive b/c you mitigate more damage. I follow your logic that you have laid out in that paragraph in how to win a fight. I just do it utlizing things like cloak to reposition in the fight etc. 2 different approaches for the same outcome.

my point is that the design concept of a nb is not to face tank. not saying you cant, but that is not the lore nor the concept for their creation.

It seems to me that what you were saying is that there is only one way to play the NB class, and you backed that up with a couple of fluff sentences that cater only to a particular playstyle. If that's not what you meant to imply, you should have worded it differently. I face tank people with my full light-armor magblade all the time; when I run with my guild I'm usually the bait for gankers, because I'm good at surviving them and turning the tide, which stems from a deeper understanding of all classes. To ignore the viability and existence of other builds (and how they were designed to be played) is only limiting your ability to truly understand (and therefore counter) those playstyles.

And really, it doesn't matter to me if you believe my 14k swallow soul or not. It happens daily, and it's really fun to see someone's health drop by half or more in a single cast; I will do it regardless of whether or not you believe it to be true. Of course, it's not like every single swallow soul crits, and some of them are empowered, or buffed through soul harvest, etc but one thing is consistent, and it's that I don't attack from stealth, therefore I don't utilize stealth damage bonuses. I have very high spell power and max magicka, a high crit chance, I use the shadow mundus to buff crit damage, and I have maelstrom weapons. It shouldn't be that surprising to see a 14k crit swallow soul considering how common it is for WB to hit for just as much (and these aren't the only skills capable of these numbers, either).

You're saying the concept for their creation and the lore that backs NBs is so narrowly focused on only stealth and gank capabilities, but that concept is inherently flawed. Did I take my tank build or my magblade build and code it into the game myself? No. ZOS designed and implemented it, and I simply play it. Therefore, the lore and concepts backing the class design are intended to be more than just hide-n-seek gank playstyles, To ignore this aspect of the class and its viability is simply stubborn.

I am not saying there is only one way to play. I am stating the intent behind the design of the class. This subject spiraled from a person saying that essentially a nb should not hit so hard from stealth and disappear. I was stating that they should be able to do that because that is the design concept behind a nb class. No where in there did i pigeon hole a nb into a specific role or say there were not other viable playstyles. I, for one, have over 2,000 hours on my nb and have played it viably a number of ways.

also, im a little confused. I thought you said you face tanked in heavy armor. Here you say light.

That said, I agree with your illustration and points in the last apart of your first paragraph. i can do the same thing. That is simply part of understanding the game imo.

Im not suprised at the fact there are abilities that do that much damage. The numbers just dont add up. first, the ability is instant cast so it should not hit as hard as wb, frags, etc. Also, you claimed to hit that with heavy armor and the 5 pc you claim to wear is not boosting your damage at all. even with kena i find this number very impractical.

to your last paragraph, again i did not state that there were not other viable options for a nb. I was simply countering a point made by another person. Additionally, to say that the the lore of a nb must be meant to do "x" because zos put it there is where the flaw is. ZOS really is not lore friendly.

bowmanz607 wrote: »

"Nightblades are adventurers and opportunists with a gift for getting in and out of trouble. Relying variously on stealth, blades and speed, Nightblades thrive on conflict and misfortune, trusting to their luck and cunning to survive." (game description.)

"Spell and shadow are their friends. By darkness they move with haste, casting magic to benefit their circumstances." (oblivion in-game description)

"Possibly the most feared class of all is the nightblade. They possess many of the skills and philosophy of the thiefly classes, combined with the powers of the mage. Their natural agility and stealth, and their mastery of the School of Illusion, means nightblades are seldom seen, though their hand is certainly felt. Effective nightblades have high agility as well as high intelligence and willpower." (Daggerfall manual description)

plus skill lines called shadow and assassin.

bowmanz607 wrote: »

xellink wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

"Nightblades are adventurers and opportunists with a gift for getting in and out of trouble. Relying variously on stealth, blades and speed, Nightblades thrive on conflict and misfortune, trusting to their luck and cunning to survive." (game description.)

"Spell and shadow are their friends. By darkness they move with haste, casting magic to benefit their circumstances." (oblivion in-game description)

"Possibly the most feared class of all is the nightblade. They possess many of the skills and philosophy of the thiefly classes, combined with the powers of the mage. Their natural agility and stealth, and their mastery of the School of Illusion, means nightblades are seldom seen, though their hand is certainly felt. Effective nightblades have high agility as well as high intelligence and willpower." (Daggerfall manual description)

plus skill lines called shadow and assassin.

Class descriptions change from time to time.

"Besting the most well-equipped fighters, Sorcerers rely on the spells of the mystic arts. Unique to these mages is the bodily stamina to be armed with the thickest armor. Sorcerers also possess the unique ability to absorb spell points from spells targeted at them, serving in essence as magical "batteries", and possess more spell points than any other mage class."

Look at the description for sorc. Bodily stamina and thickest armor. Stam sorc should be the intended way to play sorc then? It says bodily stamina, not metaphorical stamina.

So please don't bull with me and talk about designer intentions when I say that death knight/blackguard role is suited most for a heavy armoured night blade. Clearly design intention for a class changes from game to game.

1." Unique to these MAGES is the bodily stamina to be armed with the thickest armor." This is not stamina in the resource sense. Bodily stamina, meaning they have the strength and endurance to wear the thickest of armor (aka, heavy armor). Again, this refers to the fact that a sorc has the build or physique necessary to wear heavy armor. Need more proof? Look at the use of the term, the placement, the context, and the rest of the paragraph. Why would a description about MAGED use stamina? Why would they talk about spells? Why would they talk about absorbing spells as a MAGICAL battery? The use, placment, and context of the word shows that the use of the phrase "bodily stamina" refers to the physical strength and endurance of being able to wear heavy armor. Need more proof? This paragraph talks about mage and magical and spells. In every TES game that pulls from the mag pool not the Stam pool. Let's continue shall we.
2. "Sorcery rely on the spells of the mystic arts." Sounds magical to me.
3. "Unique to the mages." Yup sounds like magic.
4. Can absorb spells "serving as magical batteries." Hmmm perhaps to recharge the resource they use the most.
5. "Possess more spell points than any other mage class." Aka, they are best at all the magical stuff.

So no Stam sorc is not the intended design concept. Again, like my comment on nb, you do not have to play to that design concept, but it is the design concept none the less.

Clearly the intention is still the same. Sure maybe they look to heavy armor more in the past. But that makes sense even today. Sorc is a great choice to run magic and heavy. I would argue the best. Lass to use magika in heavy armor. Of course it is debattable. But also remember that armor has changed from game to game, so the armor comment could have changed. But the overall intention is still the same.

It actually sounds like a sorc may be more suited to your role based on this description.

I was never trying to bull you. I'm simply stating design intentions. I am not saying your pigeon holed to that concept. That is the great thing about this game.

Perhaps learn to interpret own arguments. This one seemed to back fire.

RazielSR wrote: »

OMFG LEAVE NBS ALONE! You people are toxic with this nb thing. L2p your class or roll one. Nbs are not THAT easy to master. Go easy mode sorc and leave nbs alone. They have their pros and cons.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

xellink wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

"Nightblades are adventurers and opportunists with a gift for getting in and out of trouble. Relying variously on stealth, blades and speed, Nightblades thrive on conflict and misfortune, trusting to their luck and cunning to survive." (game description.)

"Spell and shadow are their friends. By darkness they move with haste, casting magic to benefit their circumstances." (oblivion in-game description)

"Possibly the most feared class of all is the nightblade. They possess many of the skills and philosophy of the thiefly classes, combined with the powers of the mage. Their natural agility and stealth, and their mastery of the School of Illusion, means nightblades are seldom seen, though their hand is certainly felt. Effective nightblades have high agility as well as high intelligence and willpower." (Daggerfall manual description)

plus skill lines called shadow and assassin.

Class descriptions change from time to time.

"Besting the most well-equipped fighters, Sorcerers rely on the spells of the mystic arts. Unique to these mages is the bodily stamina to be armed with the thickest armor. Sorcerers also possess the unique ability to absorb spell points from spells targeted at them, serving in essence as magical "batteries", and possess more spell points than any other mage class."

Look at the description for sorc. Bodily stamina and thickest armor. Stam sorc should be the intended way to play sorc then? It says bodily stamina, not metaphorical stamina.

So please don't bull with me and talk about designer intentions when I say that death knight/blackguard role is suited most for a heavy armoured night blade. Clearly design intention for a class changes from game to game.

1." Unique to these MAGES is the bodily stamina to be armed with the thickest armor." This is not stamina in the resource sense. Bodily stamina, meaning they have the strength and endurance to wear the thickest of armor (aka, heavy armor). Again, this refers to the fact that a sorc has the build or physique necessary to wear heavy armor. Need more proof? Look at the use of the term, the placement, the context, and the rest of the paragraph. Why would a description about MAGED use stamina? Why would they talk about spells? Why would they talk about absorbing spells as a MAGICAL battery? The use, placment, and context of the word shows that the use of the phrase "bodily stamina" refers to the physical strength and endurance of being able to wear heavy armor. Need more proof? This paragraph talks about mage and magical and spells. In every TES game that pulls from the mag pool not the Stam pool. Let's continue shall we.
2. "Sorcery rely on the spells of the mystic arts." Sounds magical to me.
3. "Unique to the mages." Yup sounds like magic.
4. Can absorb spells "serving as magical batteries." Hmmm perhaps to recharge the resource they use the most.
5. "Possess more spell points than any other mage class." Aka, they are best at all the magical stuff.

So no Stam sorc is not the intended design concept. Again, like my comment on nb, you do not have to play to that design concept, but it is the design concept none the less.

Clearly the intention is still the same. Sure maybe they look to heavy armor more in the past. But that makes sense even today. Sorc is a great choice to run magic and heavy. I would argue the best. Lass to use magika in heavy armor. Of course it is debattable. But also remember that armor has changed from game to game, so the armor comment could have changed. But the overall intention is still the same.

It actually sounds like a sorc may be more suited to your role based on this description.

I was never trying to bull you. I'm simply stating design intentions. I am not saying your pigeon holed to that concept. That is the great thing about this game.

Perhaps learn to interpret own arguments. This one seemed to back fire.

If you were here in beta or the solid year after you would know that all classes were magic and stamina was an after thought after enough Nightblades that actually used stamina called for it.

Stamina Nightblades don't just luck out of the stamina morphs we were the only ones really doing stamina builds. We used Ambush and Surprise Attack before they were stamina and we were 90% of the class so we got more stamina powers.

Stamina everything was a joke and stamina sorcerers was a waste. But now two years in after Nightblades played stamina DPS builds when they weren't on par stamina sorcs pop up wanting full equal standing without putting the time in.

Stamina Sorcs want stamina morphs to powers they don't use Nightblades used Ambush and Surprise Attack long before they were stamina that why we got them use the powers you want and make your case like we did it worked for us.