Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »Is there a specific reason as to why you're ALWAYS whispering in your videos?
Decent points taken up, but you present the issue in a negligent way.
Speak up next time, kthx.
Maybe she is just soft spoken.
Not to say your point is invalid, but I think there might have been a more tactful way to suggest this to her. She is not presenting issues in a 'negligent' way. What I think you mean to say is that it might be easier to follow if she spoke up some and vocally emphasized the key issues.
Hard to ask her to present issues a little differently if you yourself present your point in a less than tactful way.
Hey hey!
First, I speak softly and calmly. This is part of my "style" so to speak. Most of my viewers enjoy it otherwise I'd have stopped long ago, but this is obviously not pleasing everyone. Its a question of taste. The sound balance, between my voice and the music should be good however.If its not, then I need to work on that.
Second, "Elloa the Rantosaurus" is a serie of short videos, VLOG-like where I speak up about a subject that inspire me. They last between 3 and 5 min and there is not much edition or preparation work.
My guides, and News videos are worked on a lot, and I put lots of care in the preparation, comment and edition.
Healers now are expected to provide rare emergency heals
KoshkaMurka wrote: »Healers now are expected to provide rare emergency heals
Pug for vICP or vWGT via group finder and say this again.
Seriosly, its really funny how many people are like "but casuals are the majority so we need to make the game as carebear as possible" in dps meter related threads, and now everyone is suddenly focused on top 10% of playerbase.
I don't feel like a healer/support anymore i feel like a monster drink that someone is using because they are hungry or low on energy, dps has become too important leaving healers to aside as nothing more than orb spamming shard throwers player buffing mongrels.
Gilliamtherogue wrote: »Don't get me wrong, I think ZoS keeps taking the wrong direction in terms of difficulty of PvE, since it's either always too easy or insanely unforgiving (the new trial/vma, both filled with artificial difficulty of bugs, one shots, etc instead of true difficult mechanics). But this isn't because players are capable of preforming insane damage or really well rounded builds that can take, mend, and dish out good amounts of damage, it's because of the situation at hand. The amount of players capable at preforming at that level is very low, so designing content around them seems foolish.
Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »@Gilliamtherogue While I do not disagree with what you are saying, I think you are taking a bit of an elitist approach at the subject. Basically, seems you are stating that if others aren't in the Top 2%, then they have no say in the subject. I am a pretty damn good player, but certainly not in the Top percentile. Beyond that simple statement, I will not measure male members with you.
Yes, there are some absolutely phenominal players in this game. But I do not think that is what the OP, or even the majority of players that have commented in this thread are speaking to. At even the 'good player' level, things are a DPS race and most regular vet dungeon mechanics can be ignored. Yet still, that is a bit off topic from the points that I brought up. And I bring this up only because you mentioned vMSA...Gilliamtherogue wrote: »Don't get me wrong, I think ZoS keeps taking the wrong direction in terms of difficulty of PvE, since it's either always too easy or insanely unforgiving (the new trial/vma, both filled with artificial difficulty of bugs, one shots, etc instead of true difficult mechanics). But this isn't because players are capable of preforming insane damage or really well rounded builds that can take, mend, and dish out good amounts of damage, it's because of the situation at hand. The amount of players capable at preforming at that level is very low, so designing content around them seems foolish.
...I feel that a lot of the reason that support characters such as Healers and Tanks are completely undervalued or simply not necessary for a lot of content is two fold:
1) Due to solo content such as vMSA, the devs had to give each and every class the tools to be demanding and difficult solo content. In essence, they have stepped towards making each class fully self sufficient in terms of DPS, sustain, and heals. And when each class is fully self sufficient and can put out high DPS, then the need for Healers, and to a degree Tanks, drops dramatically. So for regular vet dungeons a typical Tank, Healer, 2xDD team composition simply isn't necessary. Although, Trials still need Tanks and Healers simply so that DDs can achieve the highest parses. And to clarify, I don't mean this about Trials in a bad way; simply I wish Dungeons required the same composition and due diligence.
2) In relation to (1), because of the constant whining of the PvP community (of which I am a part of, but I don't whine or cry for nerfs)...my class needs an execute because they have an execute, I need mobility because they have mobility, they can do better DPS so up mine, why can they out heal burst when I can't, etc...the devs are moving even further towards making every class more and more self sufficient, with class role focus seemingly becoming less and less (i.e. DKs make the best Tanks and Templars make the best Healers).
Simply, I think the devs are taking the game in a direction that seems to mitigation conventional team composition, and it is this regard that I agree with the OP.
I don't feel like a healer/support anymore i feel like a monster drink that someone is using because they are hungry or low on energy, dps has become too important leaving healers to aside as nothing more than orb spamming shard throwers player buffing mongrels.
Quoting myself for obvious reasons.
KoshkaMurka wrote: »Healers now are expected to provide rare emergency heals
Pug for vICP or vWGT via group finder and say this again.
Seriosly, its really funny how many people are like "but casuals are the majority so we need to make the game as carebear as possible" in dps meter related threads, and now everyone is suddenly focused on top 10% of playerbase.
Gilliamtherogue wrote: »KoshkaMurka wrote: »Healers now are expected to provide rare emergency heals
Pug for vICP or vWGT via group finder and say this again.
Seriosly, its really funny how many people are like "but casuals are the majority so we need to make the game as carebear as possible" in dps meter related threads, and now everyone is suddenly focused on top 10% of playerbase.
It is really funny, threads like these are all over filled with players complaining about the fact how the top players are able to destroy content in insane amounts of time, and rally people to it as if that was an issue, but are not actively apart of it. Looking through this thread I have not recognized a single name of one of those players and I beg the question, If you (the reader) were capable of preforming to the letter of which this thread describes, would you be complaining about it being an issue? Also this whole notion of "After patch 1.6 this game became a pure DPS race, everything is so easy, X dungeon used to be hard!" is so misleading and incorrect. This game has always had players who made content look like a joke, but they were a lot more exclusive and didn't spread ANY information in fears that the community would get hold of it and destroy it, which ended up happening anyways. A lot of old metas were crushed because the wrong people heard about it and exploited it, or players who refused to learn counter play cried nerfs too loud and doomed entire builds to ruin. Content was always hard when it first came out, but not because the content itself was so challenging, but because players needed time to learn the new mechanics and moves, understanding mob AI to the point where they could anticipate almost every move, etc.
Don't get me wrong, I think ZoS keeps taking the wrong direction in terms of difficulty of PvE, since it's either always too easy or insanely unforgiving (the new trial/vma, both filled with artificial difficulty of bugs, one shots, etc instead of true difficult mechanics). But this isn't because players are capable of preforming insane damage or really well rounded builds that can take, mend, and dish out good amounts of damage, it's because of the situation at hand. The amount of players capable at preforming at that level is very low, so designing content around them seems foolish. Yet at the same time, every player has the capability to reach that same level of play, but many of them don't. Why is that? Well the main reason is the fact that ESO has absolutely no guidelines and stepping stones for players to learn how to preform at an end game level. There is not a single in game mention of mechanics such as weaving, the priority system, block casting, etc. Tooltips are broken and unreliable, stat explanations are vague or flat out incorrect, ability calculations are completely hidden meaning players have to spend an absurd amount of time doing math testing with NO proper means of doing so (no testing dummies/controlled instances where players control mobs/etc). All the while Zenimax praises builds that are put up into Battle Master's Corner that would get absolutely decimated in any sort of end game performance, or would hold back other group members if they were with them.
On top of that, all of these comments are trying to trivialize this phenomenon. Learning the game at an advanced level and then spending the time fine tuning your build and maximizing efficiency is not something you can do over night, or even a month. It took the top players in the game a LONG time to get where they are, if it was so simple then way more people would be at the same level, and ZoS would be able to create a baseline of difficulty for players to enjoy. The fact is though, skill level varies SO much from player to player that it makes it impossible for a design team to balance something around everyone. Everyone is focused on the wrong topic here. There is definitely a finger to point at something, but it isn't this.
KoshkaMurka wrote: »I don't feel like a healer/support anymore i feel like a monster drink that someone is using because they are hungry or low on energy, dps has become too important leaving healers to aside as nothing more than orb spamming shard throwers player buffing mongrels.
Quoting myself for obvious reasons.
So you dont wanna be an extra mana/stamina/hp battery... But you wanna be just an extra hp pot?
Please explain how supporting your team makes you a "mongrel" and how's spamming support abilities is different from spamming 100 diferent heals, like topicstarter suggested. And if casting support abilities is problematic for you, a boss that requires a ton of heals/HoTs and purges will be even more complicated. You will still need to support the team, especially if their dps ability would be gimped.
Gilliamtherogue wrote: »KoshkaMurka wrote: »Healers now are expected to provide rare emergency heals
Pug for vICP or vWGT via group finder and say this again.
Seriosly, its really funny how many people are like "but casuals are the majority so we need to make the game as carebear as possible" in dps meter related threads, and now everyone is suddenly focused on top 10% of playerbase.
It is really funny, threads like these are all over filled with players complaining about the fact how the top players are able to destroy content in insane amounts of time, and rally people to it as if that was an issue, but are not actively apart of it. Looking through this thread I have not recognized a single name of one of those players and I beg the question, If you (the reader) were capable of preforming to the letter of which this thread describes, would you be complaining about it being an issue? Also this whole notion of "After patch 1.6 this game became a pure DPS race, everything is so easy, X dungeon used to be hard!" is so misleading and incorrect. This game has always had players who made content look like a joke, but they were a lot more exclusive and didn't spread ANY information in fears that the community would get hold of it and destroy it, which ended up happening anyways. A lot of old metas were crushed because the wrong people heard about it and exploited it, or players who refused to learn counter play cried nerfs too loud and doomed entire builds to ruin. Content was always hard when it first came out, but not because the content itself was so challenging, but because players needed time to learn the new mechanics and moves, understanding mob AI to the point where they could anticipate almost every move, etc.
Don't get me wrong, I think ZoS keeps taking the wrong direction in terms of difficulty of PvE, since it's either always too easy or insanely unforgiving (the new trial/vma, both filled with artificial difficulty of bugs, one shots, etc instead of true difficult mechanics). But this isn't because players are capable of preforming insane damage or really well rounded builds that can take, mend, and dish out good amounts of damage, it's because of the situation at hand. The amount of players capable at preforming at that level is very low, so designing content around them seems foolish. Yet at the same time, every player has the capability to reach that same level of play, but many of them don't. Why is that? Well the main reason is the fact that ESO has absolutely no guidelines and stepping stones for players to learn how to preform at an end game level. There is not a single in game mention of mechanics such as weaving, the priority system, block casting, etc. Tooltips are broken and unreliable, stat explanations are vague or flat out incorrect, ability calculations are completely hidden meaning players have to spend an absurd amount of time doing math testing with NO proper means of doing so (no testing dummies/controlled instances where players control mobs/etc). All the while Zenimax praises builds that are put up into Battle Master's Corner that would get absolutely decimated in any sort of end game performance, or would hold back other group members if they were with them.
On top of that, all of these comments are trying to trivialize this phenomenon. Learning the game at an advanced level and then spending the time fine tuning your build and maximizing efficiency is not something you can do over night, or even a month. It took the top players in the game a LONG time to get where they are, if it was so simple then way more people would be at the same level, and ZoS would be able to create a baseline of difficulty for players to enjoy. The fact is though, skill level varies SO much from player to player that it makes it impossible for a design team to balance something around everyone. Everyone is focused on the wrong topic here. There is definitely a finger to point at something, but it isn't this.
KoshkaMurka wrote: »I don't feel like a healer/support anymore i feel like a monster drink that someone is using because they are hungry or low on energy, dps has become too important leaving healers to aside as nothing more than orb spamming shard throwers player buffing mongrels.
Quoting myself for obvious reasons.
So you dont wanna be an extra mana/stamina/hp battery... But you wanna be just an extra hp pot?
Please explain how supporting your team makes you a "mongrel" and how's spamming support abilities is different from spamming 100 diferent heals, like topicstarter suggested. And if casting support abilities is problematic for you, a boss that requires a ton of heals/HoTs and purges will be even more complicated. You will still need to support the team, especially if their dps ability would be gimped.
Because they ''need'' all of that help because they can't sustain their own resources they put everything into damage and then just sit there spamming a simple af rotation while they cancel the animation and then scream ''Orb'' when they get low.
I'm forced to run elemental drain as well but the biggest issue is that the damage that bosses do comes in waves that hit like a tsunami instead of being constant i only need to heal when their health gets cut by a sudden attack instead of constantly providing healing like a healer is supposed to, no i have to be a battery because in this game if you have sustain in a dungeon you suck, to add to this almost 70% of the abilities that classes use (excluding templar) for dps are instant cast so canceling makes them use 2 attack at the same time draining resources even faster but no as a healer my job is to sit back and let everyone do the job while i just fill your resource bars cose i'm a mountain dew.
KoshkaMurka wrote: »KoshkaMurka wrote: »I don't feel like a healer/support anymore i feel like a monster drink that someone is using because they are hungry or low on energy, dps has become too important leaving healers to aside as nothing more than orb spamming shard throwers player buffing mongrels.
Quoting myself for obvious reasons.
So you dont wanna be an extra mana/stamina/hp battery... But you wanna be just an extra hp pot?
Please explain how supporting your team makes you a "mongrel" and how's spamming support abilities is different from spamming 100 diferent heals, like topicstarter suggested. And if casting support abilities is problematic for you, a boss that requires a ton of heals/HoTs and purges will be even more complicated. You will still need to support the team, especially if their dps ability would be gimped.
Because they ''need'' all of that help because they can't sustain their own resources they put everything into damage and then just sit there spamming a simple af rotation while they cancel the animation and then scream ''Orb'' when they get low.
I'm forced to run elemental drain as well but the biggest issue is that the damage that bosses do comes in waves that hit like a tsunami instead of being constant i only need to heal when their health gets cut by a sudden attack instead of constantly providing healing like a healer is supposed to, no i have to be a battery because in this game if you have sustain in a dungeon you suck, to add to this almost 70% of the abilities that classes use (excluding templar) for dps are instant cast so canceling makes them use 2 attack at the same time draining resources even faster but no as a healer my job is to sit back and let everyone do the job while i just fill your resource bars cose i'm a mountain dew.
Well, with mandatory heal spam they would need you to heal them because they dont have enough mitigation to survive on their own... So you wouldnt be their Mountain Dew, you would be their Sunny-D to restore their health all the time. So why restoring specific resource is better than the other? Why recharging health makes you feel important for a team, but helping with other resource pool doesnt? They will wipe without health, but without resources to fight they will wipe as well.
If your team threats you badly because you're not forced to be a healbot 24/7, its a problem of your group.
Btw, things like ele drain, repentance, shards or even spell symmetry were used in groups before 1.6You're very naive if youre thinking that if new content requires a lot more more heals, you wont need to help with sustain. In competitive groups anyway, but in pugs healers usually dont care about ele drain anyway.
KoshkaMurka wrote: »KoshkaMurka wrote: »I don't feel like a healer/support anymore i feel like a monster drink that someone is using because they are hungry or low on energy, dps has become too important leaving healers to aside as nothing more than orb spamming shard throwers player buffing mongrels.
Quoting myself for obvious reasons.
So you dont wanna be an extra mana/stamina/hp battery... But you wanna be just an extra hp pot?
Please explain how supporting your team makes you a "mongrel" and how's spamming support abilities is different from spamming 100 diferent heals, like topicstarter suggested. And if casting support abilities is problematic for you, a boss that requires a ton of heals/HoTs and purges will be even more complicated. You will still need to support the team, especially if their dps ability would be gimped.
Because they ''need'' all of that help because they can't sustain their own resources they put everything into damage and then just sit there spamming a simple af rotation while they cancel the animation and then scream ''Orb'' when they get low.
I'm forced to run elemental drain as well but the biggest issue is that the damage that bosses do comes in waves that hit like a tsunami instead of being constant i only need to heal when their health gets cut by a sudden attack instead of constantly providing healing like a healer is supposed to, no i have to be a battery because in this game if you have sustain in a dungeon you suck, to add to this almost 70% of the abilities that classes use (excluding templar) for dps are instant cast so canceling makes them use 2 attack at the same time draining resources even faster but no as a healer my job is to sit back and let everyone do the job while i just fill your resource bars cose i'm a mountain dew.
Well, with mandatory heal spam they would need you to heal them because they dont have enough mitigation to survive on their own... So you wouldnt be their Mountain Dew, you would be their Sunny-D to restore their health all the time. So why restoring specific resource is better than the other? Why recharging health makes you feel important for a team, but helping with other resource pool doesnt? They will wipe without health, but without resources to fight they will wipe as well.
If your team threats you badly because you're not forced to be a healbot 24/7, its a problem of your group.
Btw, things like ele drain, repentance, shards or even spell symmetry were used in groups before 1.6You're very naive if youre thinking that if new content requires a lot more more heals, you wont need to help with sustain. In competitive groups anyway, but in pugs healers usually dont care about ele drain anyway.
If i was providing actual buffs instead of filling your 3 bars it would make me happy, now i have been called an excellent ''healer'' in many occasions by many people but that always makes me eyeroll because it feels so trivial to me that i get the sensation that my grandma could heal vMoL.
KoshkaMurka wrote: »KoshkaMurka wrote: »KoshkaMurka wrote: »I don't feel like a healer/support anymore i feel like a monster drink that someone is using because they are hungry or low on energy, dps has become too important leaving healers to aside as nothing more than orb spamming shard throwers player buffing mongrels.
Quoting myself for obvious reasons.
So you dont wanna be an extra mana/stamina/hp battery... But you wanna be just an extra hp pot?
Please explain how supporting your team makes you a "mongrel" and how's spamming support abilities is different from spamming 100 diferent heals, like topicstarter suggested. And if casting support abilities is problematic for you, a boss that requires a ton of heals/HoTs and purges will be even more complicated. You will still need to support the team, especially if their dps ability would be gimped.
Because they ''need'' all of that help because they can't sustain their own resources they put everything into damage and then just sit there spamming a simple af rotation while they cancel the animation and then scream ''Orb'' when they get low.
I'm forced to run elemental drain as well but the biggest issue is that the damage that bosses do comes in waves that hit like a tsunami instead of being constant i only need to heal when their health gets cut by a sudden attack instead of constantly providing healing like a healer is supposed to, no i have to be a battery because in this game if you have sustain in a dungeon you suck, to add to this almost 70% of the abilities that classes use (excluding templar) for dps are instant cast so canceling makes them use 2 attack at the same time draining resources even faster but no as a healer my job is to sit back and let everyone do the job while i just fill your resource bars cose i'm a mountain dew.
Well, with mandatory heal spam they would need you to heal them because they dont have enough mitigation to survive on their own... So you wouldnt be their Mountain Dew, you would be their Sunny-D to restore their health all the time. So why restoring specific resource is better than the other? Why recharging health makes you feel important for a team, but helping with other resource pool doesnt? They will wipe without health, but without resources to fight they will wipe as well.
If your team threats you badly because you're not forced to be a healbot 24/7, its a problem of your group.
Btw, things like ele drain, repentance, shards or even spell symmetry were used in groups before 1.6You're very naive if youre thinking that if new content requires a lot more more heals, you wont need to help with sustain. In competitive groups anyway, but in pugs healers usually dont care about ele drain anyway.
If i was providing actual buffs instead of filling your 3 bars it would make me happy, now i have been called an excellent ''healer'' in many occasions by many people but that always makes me eyeroll because it feels so trivial to me that i get the sensation that my grandma could heal vMoL.
But still, why is it a bad thing if "healer" role in eso is more than just using healing spells? I simply do not understand how helping with 3 resource pools rather than just 1 makes you less important for your teammates and less "skilled" so to speak.
Ooh, vMoL is gonna be interesting. Have you tried it on pts already?And what about being a single healer in SO hard mode, also too easy perhaps?
The content in this game is mostly very easy, I agree with that, but it was nerfed because of casual playerbase that demanded it. If difficulty suddenly jumps up, and people wont be able to finish dungeons that they were facerolling just 1 week ago, it wont be good for the community.
KoshkaMurka wrote: »KoshkaMurka wrote: »KoshkaMurka wrote: »I don't feel like a healer/support anymore i feel like a monster drink that someone is using because they are hungry or low on energy, dps has become too important leaving healers to aside as nothing more than orb spamming shard throwers player buffing mongrels.
Quoting myself for obvious reasons.
So you dont wanna be an extra mana/stamina/hp battery... But you wanna be just an extra hp pot?
Please explain how supporting your team makes you a "mongrel" and how's spamming support abilities is different from spamming 100 diferent heals, like topicstarter suggested. And if casting support abilities is problematic for you, a boss that requires a ton of heals/HoTs and purges will be even more complicated. You will still need to support the team, especially if their dps ability would be gimped.
Because they ''need'' all of that help because they can't sustain their own resources they put everything into damage and then just sit there spamming a simple af rotation while they cancel the animation and then scream ''Orb'' when they get low.
I'm forced to run elemental drain as well but the biggest issue is that the damage that bosses do comes in waves that hit like a tsunami instead of being constant i only need to heal when their health gets cut by a sudden attack instead of constantly providing healing like a healer is supposed to, no i have to be a battery because in this game if you have sustain in a dungeon you suck, to add to this almost 70% of the abilities that classes use (excluding templar) for dps are instant cast so canceling makes them use 2 attack at the same time draining resources even faster but no as a healer my job is to sit back and let everyone do the job while i just fill your resource bars cose i'm a mountain dew.
Well, with mandatory heal spam they would need you to heal them because they dont have enough mitigation to survive on their own... So you wouldnt be their Mountain Dew, you would be their Sunny-D to restore their health all the time. So why restoring specific resource is better than the other? Why recharging health makes you feel important for a team, but helping with other resource pool doesnt? They will wipe without health, but without resources to fight they will wipe as well.
If your team threats you badly because you're not forced to be a healbot 24/7, its a problem of your group.
Btw, things like ele drain, repentance, shards or even spell symmetry were used in groups before 1.6You're very naive if youre thinking that if new content requires a lot more more heals, you wont need to help with sustain. In competitive groups anyway, but in pugs healers usually dont care about ele drain anyway.
If i was providing actual buffs instead of filling your 3 bars it would make me happy, now i have been called an excellent ''healer'' in many occasions by many people but that always makes me eyeroll because it feels so trivial to me that i get the sensation that my grandma could heal vMoL.
But still, why is it a bad thing if "healer" role in eso is more than just using healing spells? I simply do not understand how helping with 3 resource pools rather than just 1 makes you less important for your teammates and less "skilled" so to speak.
Ooh, vMoL is gonna be interesting. Have you tried it on pts already?And what about being a single healer in SO hard mode, also too easy perhaps?
The content in this game is mostly very easy, I agree with that, but it was nerfed because of casual playerbase that demanded it. If difficulty suddenly jumps up, and people wont be able to finish dungeons that they were facerolling just 1 week ago, it wont be good for the community.
Maybe you are right and i'm just really angry that my favorite people (best friends) are not as good as me and all things i do just seem trivial to me but i can't just leave them i love those guys.
infraction2008b16_ESO wrote: »Gilliamtherogue wrote: »KoshkaMurka wrote: »Healers now are expected to provide rare emergency heals
Pug for vICP or vWGT via group finder and say this again.
Seriosly, its really funny how many people are like "but casuals are the majority so we need to make the game as carebear as possible" in dps meter related threads, and now everyone is suddenly focused on top 10% of playerbase.
It is really funny, threads like these are all over filled with players complaining about the fact how the top players are able to destroy content in insane amounts of time, and rally people to it as if that was an issue, but are not actively apart of it. Looking through this thread I have not recognized a single name of one of those players and I beg the question, If you (the reader) were capable of preforming to the letter of which this thread describes, would you be complaining about it being an issue? Also this whole notion of "After patch 1.6 this game became a pure DPS race, everything is so easy, X dungeon used to be hard!" is so misleading and incorrect. This game has always had players who made content look like a joke, but they were a lot more exclusive and didn't spread ANY information in fears that the community would get hold of it and destroy it, which ended up happening anyways. A lot of old metas were crushed because the wrong people heard about it and exploited it, or players who refused to learn counter play cried nerfs too loud and doomed entire builds to ruin. Content was always hard when it first came out, but not because the content itself was so challenging, but because players needed time to learn the new mechanics and moves, understanding mob AI to the point where they could anticipate almost every move, etc.
Don't get me wrong, I think ZoS keeps taking the wrong direction in terms of difficulty of PvE, since it's either always too easy or insanely unforgiving (the new trial/vma, both filled with artificial difficulty of bugs, one shots, etc instead of true difficult mechanics). But this isn't because players are capable of preforming insane damage or really well rounded builds that can take, mend, and dish out good amounts of damage, it's because of the situation at hand. The amount of players capable at preforming at that level is very low, so designing content around them seems foolish. Yet at the same time, every player has the capability to reach that same level of play, but many of them don't. Why is that? Well the main reason is the fact that ESO has absolutely no guidelines and stepping stones for players to learn how to preform at an end game level. There is not a single in game mention of mechanics such as weaving, the priority system, block casting, etc. Tooltips are broken and unreliable, stat explanations are vague or flat out incorrect, ability calculations are completely hidden meaning players have to spend an absurd amount of time doing math testing with NO proper means of doing so (no testing dummies/controlled instances where players control mobs/etc). All the while Zenimax praises builds that are put up into Battle Master's Corner that would get absolutely decimated in any sort of end game performance, or would hold back other group members if they were with them.
On top of that, all of these comments are trying to trivialize this phenomenon. Learning the game at an advanced level and then spending the time fine tuning your build and maximizing efficiency is not something you can do over night, or even a month. It took the top players in the game a LONG time to get where they are, if it was so simple then way more people would be at the same level, and ZoS would be able to create a baseline of difficulty for players to enjoy. The fact is though, skill level varies SO much from player to player that it makes it impossible for a design team to balance something around everyone. Everyone is focused on the wrong topic here. There is definitely a finger to point at something, but it isn't this.
Who said this thread was an attack on the top players? Anyone can spend an hour or two reading/watching a couple of guides, researching on builds and gear and come up with something that can churn out at least 20k. Hell once you start to learn your class/skill lines etc you can pretty much come up with something just by experimenting.
The issue here is not the top players doing too much DPS than anyone else, the issue is DPS is so high now it's possible for most decent builds to out DPS mechanics entirely. With fights being so short this leaves tanks or healers being the spare parts not finding a challenge and just being there for convenience of the DPS while everyone else has the DPS race as their main focus.
Having come from games where there is co-ordinated healing and tanking this game just sticks the middle finger up at them for the sake of high number DPS ego.
"KoshkaMurka wrote: »Enraged_Tiki_Torch wrote: »To offer an idea for making it challenging for DPS. Zenimax could design a mob that will calculate the amount of DPS it is taking from players, then apply a cap where if you exceed it (say cap is 50k DPS, and your group does 51k DPS): the monster will activate a massive AoE that kills everyone.
Arguing in chat who triggered this mob will surely make player's experience more enjoyable.
Imo, average dps shouldnt be punished (=content shouldnt be impossible for average groups), but high dps shouldnt be punished as well. There just should be mechanics that cant be skipped with high burst, that's it. But punishing players is a bad, bad idea.
infraction2008b16_ESO wrote: »Gilliamtherogue wrote: »KoshkaMurka wrote: »Healers now are expected to provide rare emergency heals
Pug for vICP or vWGT via group finder and say this again.
Seriosly, its really funny how many people are like "but casuals are the majority so we need to make the game as carebear as possible" in dps meter related threads, and now everyone is suddenly focused on top 10% of playerbase.
It is really funny, threads like these are all over filled with players complaining about the fact how the top players are able to destroy content in insane amounts of time, and rally people to it as if that was an issue, but are not actively apart of it. Looking through this thread I have not recognized a single name of one of those players and I beg the question, If you (the reader) were capable of preforming to the letter of which this thread describes, would you be complaining about it being an issue? Also this whole notion of "After patch 1.6 this game became a pure DPS race, everything is so easy, X dungeon used to be hard!" is so misleading and incorrect. This game has always had players who made content look like a joke, but they were a lot more exclusive and didn't spread ANY information in fears that the community would get hold of it and destroy it, which ended up happening anyways. A lot of old metas were crushed because the wrong people heard about it and exploited it, or players who refused to learn counter play cried nerfs too loud and doomed entire builds to ruin. Content was always hard when it first came out, but not because the content itself was so challenging, but because players needed time to learn the new mechanics and moves, understanding mob AI to the point where they could anticipate almost every move, etc.
Don't get me wrong, I think ZoS keeps taking the wrong direction in terms of difficulty of PvE, since it's either always too easy or insanely unforgiving (the new trial/vma, both filled with artificial difficulty of bugs, one shots, etc instead of true difficult mechanics). But this isn't because players are capable of preforming insane damage or really well rounded builds that can take, mend, and dish out good amounts of damage, it's because of the situation at hand. The amount of players capable at preforming at that level is very low, so designing content around them seems foolish. Yet at the same time, every player has the capability to reach that same level of play, but many of them don't. Why is that? Well the main reason is the fact that ESO has absolutely no guidelines and stepping stones for players to learn how to preform at an end game level. There is not a single in game mention of mechanics such as weaving, the priority system, block casting, etc. Tooltips are broken and unreliable, stat explanations are vague or flat out incorrect, ability calculations are completely hidden meaning players have to spend an absurd amount of time doing math testing with NO proper means of doing so (no testing dummies/controlled instances where players control mobs/etc). All the while Zenimax praises builds that are put up into Battle Master's Corner that would get absolutely decimated in any sort of end game performance, or would hold back other group members if they were with them.
On top of that, all of these comments are trying to trivialize this phenomenon. Learning the game at an advanced level and then spending the time fine tuning your build and maximizing efficiency is not something you can do over night, or even a month. It took the top players in the game a LONG time to get where they are, if it was so simple then way more people would be at the same level, and ZoS would be able to create a baseline of difficulty for players to enjoy. The fact is though, skill level varies SO much from player to player that it makes it impossible for a design team to balance something around everyone. Everyone is focused on the wrong topic here. There is definitely a finger to point at something, but it isn't this.
Who said this thread was an attack on the top players? Anyone can spend an hour or two reading/watching a couple of guides, researching on builds and gear and come up with something that can churn out at least 20k. Hell once you start to learn your class/skill lines etc you can pretty much come up with something just by experimenting.
The issue here is not the top players doing too much DPS than anyone else, the issue is DPS is so high now it's possible for most decent builds to out DPS mechanics entirely. With fights being so short this leaves tanks or healers being the spare parts not finding a challenge and just being there for convenience of the DPS while everyone else has the DPS race as their main focus.
Having come from games where there is co-ordinated healing and tanking this game just sticks the middle finger up at them for the sake of high number DPS ego.
KoshkaMurka wrote: »KoshkaMurka wrote: »KoshkaMurka wrote: »I don't feel like a healer/support anymore i feel like a monster drink that someone is using because they are hungry or low on energy, dps has become too important leaving healers to aside as nothing more than orb spamming shard throwers player buffing mongrels.
Quoting myself for obvious reasons.
So you dont wanna be an extra mana/stamina/hp battery... But you wanna be just an extra hp pot?
Please explain how supporting your team makes you a "mongrel" and how's spamming support abilities is different from spamming 100 diferent heals, like topicstarter suggested. And if casting support abilities is problematic for you, a boss that requires a ton of heals/HoTs and purges will be even more complicated. You will still need to support the team, especially if their dps ability would be gimped.
Because they ''need'' all of that help because they can't sustain their own resources they put everything into damage and then just sit there spamming a simple af rotation while they cancel the animation and then scream ''Orb'' when they get low.
I'm forced to run elemental drain as well but the biggest issue is that the damage that bosses do comes in waves that hit like a tsunami instead of being constant i only need to heal when their health gets cut by a sudden attack instead of constantly providing healing like a healer is supposed to, no i have to be a battery because in this game if you have sustain in a dungeon you suck, to add to this almost 70% of the abilities that classes use (excluding templar) for dps are instant cast so canceling makes them use 2 attack at the same time draining resources even faster but no as a healer my job is to sit back and let everyone do the job while i just fill your resource bars cose i'm a mountain dew.
Well, with mandatory heal spam they would need you to heal them because they dont have enough mitigation to survive on their own... So you wouldnt be their Mountain Dew, you would be their Sunny-D to restore their health all the time. So why restoring specific resource is better than the other? Why recharging health makes you feel important for a team, but helping with other resource pool doesnt? They will wipe without health, but without resources to fight they will wipe as well.
If your team threats you badly because you're not forced to be a healbot 24/7, its a problem of your group.
Btw, things like ele drain, repentance, shards or even spell symmetry were used in groups before 1.6You're very naive if youre thinking that if new content requires a lot more more heals, you wont need to help with sustain. In competitive groups anyway, but in pugs healers usually dont care about ele drain anyway.
If i was providing actual buffs instead of filling your 3 bars it would make me happy, now i have been called an excellent ''healer'' in many occasions by many people but that always makes me eyeroll because it feels so trivial to me that i get the sensation that my grandma could heal vMoL.
But still, why is it a bad thing if "healer" role in eso is more than just using healing spells? I simply do not understand how helping with 3 resource pools rather than just 1 makes you less important for your teammates and less "skilled" so to speak.
Ooh, vMoL is gonna be interesting. Have you tried it on pts already?And what about being a single healer in SO hard mode, also too easy perhaps?
The content in this game is mostly very easy, I agree with that, but it was nerfed because of casual playerbase that demanded it. If difficulty suddenly jumps up, and people wont be able to finish dungeons that they were facerolling just 1 week ago, it wont be good for the community.
P.S. You can also provide combat prayer and put HoTs on teammates to proc spell cure, use warhorn, etc. Thats a lot of stuff actually. Enough to fill both bars.
Just as example, "out of the box", how simple this stacking can be adressed:
IF DPS scales only from Spell/Weapon Power and HPS scales only from Magicka/Stamina stat....
You are forced to choose, like in the CP tree.
For the Trinity this means:
- A Healer can stack 100% stat for max HPS as 100% dedicated Healer (high HPS output but less DPS), or stack less stat to Heal and add more Spell Power (to support DPS) or add more Recovery to add support / Group synergy abilities.
- A Damage Dealer can stack 100% Spell/Weapon Power as 100% DPS (high DPS output but less self heal), or stack some stat for sustain or solo.
- A Tank can stack Mitigation & Health as 100% damage sponge (high sustain, but no DPS), or stack less mitigation and free up room to add DPS or support the Group with synergy abilities.
And there are many, many more ways, where "simple" technical changes will adress the current meta of very high DPS + very high selfsustain from self heals.
In the calculations for healing, health is given an equal role as stamina/magicka and simply added to the equation. (the actual math itself would have to balance so that healing itself isn't massively buffed up front). What this would mean is, perhaps for using rally, someone with 40k health and 15k stamina would get the same values as someone with 20k health and 35k stamina. If this were used in conjunction with improving the modifier for health back to 1.5x, then health will be a stat that provides more statistical improvement to healing (since it could be raised higher than the other stats), but you do not lose out on all healing by investing in one stat. You would just have less than ideal.
(...)
We all have different play-styles, but it doesn't mean that just because we have a clear understanding of how we play that we close our minds to other forms of play-style. To OP, I'm sure you're pretty good at what you're doing and/or your role, and I get it, damage in this game (even with all it's "nerfs") is quite insane, especially in PvE. And as much as I agree that roles outside DPS is worrisome, if you think that the healing role is only to save someone from eminent death, and that you are being "reduced" as someone who only provides resources, etc, then I believe it's an issue with your play-style. Not necessarily a lot of healers/tanks.