wrecking blow needs attention
before all you spammers come on and start QQ actually think for a moment about balance and about the quality of other moves that do DD, hard CC and buff all in one.
wb does too much. cheap, high damage, makes other attacks stronger, cc. seriously no wonder half of cryodiil just spamms this. compare it other single target cc that does damage. javelin does HALF DAMAGE FOR TWICE THE COST.
im not saying nerf it into the ground but for god sake one factor needs to change, cost more, make it bashable again, remove cc, lower damage, I really dont care but any one move should not have EVERYTHING you want and be cheap enough to not ever need to use another ability.
I know I know LTP, stop QQ, bla bla bla, dont bother writing that we get it wb is fine nerf templars.
wb does too much. cheap, high damage, makes other attacks stronger, cc. seriously no wonder half of cryodiil just spamms this. compare it other single target cc that does damage. javelin does HALF DAMAGE FOR TWICE THE COST.
im not saying nerf it into the ground but for god sake one factor needs to change, cost more, make it bashable again, remove cc, lower damage, I really dont care but any one move should not have EVERYTHING you want and be cheap enough to not ever need to use another ability.
I know I know LTP, stop QQ, bla bla bla, dont bother writing that we get it wb is fine nerf templars.
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bikerangelo✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think they increased the range to Javelin so that it wasn't exactly the same as wrecking blow.3 -
FENGRUSH✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO wrote: »
It wasnt a serious post - and its probably not worth fighting about. ZOS will tell you to wait until Update 10, thats when they intend to work on weapon skill lines it appears.
I think it needs to be looked at for sure, just as the other weapon skill lines that dont offer good lineups to be a primary weapon need to be looked at. This skill needs adjustment, and as soon as it is adjusted with no other changes/options - my stam sorc will be that much worse to play, and other stam classes will suffer just as well. This is the unfortunate reality of the balance issues were running into. I cant disagree, and yet the solution hurts classes at the bottom of the food chain that gain nothing going into this patch except a 25% damage reduction due to hardy passive while our ults still dont scale and hit half as hard as a proxy det does when used against 1 person.
What the hell is really going on man - I cannot say.23 -
they should make javelin exactly the same as wrecking blow. exactly line for line just that it costs magica. not really though we dont need more moves that you one button spam.0
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imagine they got rid of javelin completely and just made it wrecking blow, use wb skill, and its animation, same cost same bash immune add the yellow light and stab them into the air with your javelin. there you go. im sure nobody would complain.0
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RoyJade✭✭✭✭✭
✭Wrecking blow indeed need a look, but CC bugs are more important (because it's the main reason of WB's power actually).
And if WB is nerfed, stamsorc and stamDK need a stamina-based spammable attack (and stamplar still need a boost), because they don't have anything else beside s&b for DK and snipe for both...4 -
seitekisaki✭✭✭I say just fix the bugs around wrecking blow. I shouldn't get hit from a few meters away or hit by 2 consecutive WB because one was someone animation canceled. (I know it doesn't happen all the time but still) Then there are generally just CC bugs with a lot of things in game.4
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Ffastyl✭✭✭✭✭Wrecking Blow is not the issue, the Empower buff is.
From Greetings ESO Forum Posters.Topic 1
While not class specific,
Wrecking Blow in its current state is overpowered. In pre-1.6 Uppercut and morphs were either highly effective or useless (in PvP) depending on what the skills of each player were. Against an attentive, calm and up-close player, Uppercut would be consistently interrupted (from personal experience). Getting around this required using other skills to catch the player unawares or using the distance difference between bash and Uppercut to stay in that 2m wide ring where Uppercut can reach while bash cannot.
If it is possible, the uninterruptible change should be altered. Venom Arrow and Crushing Shock were the primary issues, I am assuming, when considering the change in 1.6. If it is possible to make Uppercut and morphs uninterruptible to ranged interrupts like Venom Arrow and Crushing Shock while leaving it interruptible to the standard bash, Wrecking Blow would be brought to balance.
Alternatively, and preferably, the buff Empower should be adjusted. It was two changes in Update 6 that made Wrecking Blow overpowered but only one change is needed to rebalance it: Uninterruptible (as above) and changing the "Increase Damage for next attack by [#]. Does not apply to [ability] or morphs," buff on several abilities to the "Next attack deals 20% more damage" of Empower.
The key is the secondary condition on the buff pre-1.6. This made spamming the attack pointless as the extra damage was not applied - at least one other attack had to be utilized. Adding a flag to Empower to track which ability granted it and preventing Empower from applying to the reported ability will reinstate the secondary condition. When Empower is granted the ability that granted it is tracked; when the next attack fires, Empower compares the attack with the tracked ability, if they match then Empower does not apply and the duration is renewed (the ability re-grants Empower); if the attack does not match the tracked ability then Empower applies as normal.
If adjusting Empower like this is technically infeasible then a separate instance/version of Empower can be made for each ability that grants it, each one with the check to see if a different attack than the ability is made.
The new tooltips could read:
"Grants Empower, which increases the damage of the next attack by 20% unless it is the same attack."
If a version is made for each ability:
"Grants Empower, which increases the damage of the next attack by 20%. Does not apply to Dark Flare and morphs."
"Grants Empower, which increases the damage of the next attack by 20%. Does not apply to Mages Guild abilities."
Adjusting Empower in the way described is greatly prefered to making Wrecking Blow interruptible or partially interruptible as it also addresses the "one-button spam" that has arisen since Update 6. However, if re-coding Empower is too difficult or impossible, the first solution to rebalancing Wrecking Blow should be implemented as the ability is still above the power curve and should be brought down into balance.Edited by Ffastyl on February 15, 2016 6:28PM"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it."
PC NA
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Ffastyl - Level 50 Templar
Arturus Amitis - Level 50 Nightblade
Sulac the Wanderer - Level 50 Dragonknight
Arcturus Leland - Level 50 Sorcerer
Azrog rus-Oliphet - Level 50 Templar
Tienc - Level 50 Warden
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Check out:
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"My strength is that I have no weaknesses. My weakness is that I have no strengths."
Member since May 4th, 2014.0 -
wb is so op that even with a big nerf it would still be #1. if they completely got rid of the cc it would still be the #1 spammed skill because of its high damgage cheap cost and damage buff bash immune, they would just have to add a cc to the rotation like every other non twohand build. not saying thats the answer but to argue its a move thats needed so it cant be adjusted is not a sound argument
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david.haypreub18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭True story: when the changes were made to Wrecking Blow, lots of people pointed out that it would be OP, especially when ZOS decided to make it uninterruptible.
Wrobel overruled them and said, nah, it will be fine. Then left it as is for a year.
True story!
Plot twist: he still somehow has the job as combat lead!Templars are 'just slower... by design'
Yes, Gina actually said that (at least regarding Rushed Ceremony) right here:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/161959/templar-skills-bugged-made-useless-ignored/p24
VR 16 Templar (retired until Templars get fixed)
VR 16 Sorcerer
38 Nightblade
24 DK17 -
ok lets compare
one has CC one dosent.
thats a huge difference. if someone does nothing but suprise attack you lol unless they start using other abilities0 -
Didgerion✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Yeah surprise attack is so much more powerful:
- combined with animation canceling it does way more DPS than WB
- it is major fracture debuff
- it is a CC as well
- and it bufs up your stats passively while slotted
But don't worry - you will not see many WBs spammers next DLC....look forward for detonations and meteors.Edited by Didgerion on February 15, 2016 6:47PM3 -
Yeah surprise attack is so much more powerful:
- combined with animation canceling it does way more DPS than WB
- it is major fracture debuff
- it is a CC as well
-and it bufs up your stats passively while slotted
ill have to disagree, im completely unconcerned about a nb spamming SA while very concerned about wb spam. well not so much when a stam build, its a lot easier to keep moving through the wb. but on a magica ill take a surprise attack over wb anyday.1 -
Zinaroth✭✭✭✭✭
✭dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO wrote: »
ok lets compare
one has CC one dosent.
thats a huge difference. if someone does nothing but suprise attack you lol unless they start using other abilities
In combination with Cloak then Surprise Attack can be used as a powerful CC.
It add Major Fracture.
It bestows Major Ward and Major Resolve on user for atleast 4 seconds.
It is the highest DPS stamina ability in the game.
It bestows passive crit on the user when slotted.
If someone does nothing but Wrecking Blow you then LOL unless they use anything for defense, I completely annihilate people only spamming Wrecking Blow unless they catch my outnumbered or off guard.Edited by Zinaroth on February 15, 2016 6:42PM1 -
Ffastyl✭✭✭✭✭
Yeah surprise attack is so much more powerful:
- combined with animation canceling it does way more DPS than WB
- it is major fracture debuff
- it is a CC as well
-and it bufs up your stats passively while slotted
Puncture:
- costs 30% less than Surprise Attack
- deals 20% less damage than Surprise Attack
- applies Major Fracture debuff
- can be morphed to apply Major Breach debuff
- can be morphed to apply Minor Resolve buff
- Master Sword allows it to heal for 2k
Yet no one calls it out for being OP."A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it."
PC NA
Daggerfall Covenant
Ffastyl - Level 50 Templar
Arturus Amitis - Level 50 Nightblade
Sulac the Wanderer - Level 50 Dragonknight
Arcturus Leland - Level 50 Sorcerer
Azrog rus-Oliphet - Level 50 Templar
Tienc - Level 50 Warden
Aldmeri Dominion
Ashen Willow Knight - Level 50 Templar
Champion Rank 938
Check out:
Old vs New Intro Cinematics
"My strength is that I have no weaknesses. My weakness is that I have no strengths."
Member since May 4th, 2014.1 -
dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO wrote: »
ok lets compare
one has CC one dosent.
thats a huge difference. if someone does nothing but suprise attack you lol unless they start using other abilities
In combination with Cloak then Surprise Attack can be used as a powerful CC.
It add Major Fracture.
It bestows Major Ward and Major Resolve on user for atleast 4 seconds.
It is the highest DPS stamina ability in the game.
It bestows passive crit on the user when slotted.
ok i concede. there is one comparable move that only stamblades have access too. how about another comparable0 -
Zinaroth✭✭✭✭✭
✭dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO wrote: »dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO wrote: »
ok lets compare
one has CC one dosent.
thats a huge difference. if someone does nothing but suprise attack you lol unless they start using other abilities
In combination with Cloak then Surprise Attack can be used as a powerful CC.
It add Major Fracture.
It bestows Major Ward and Major Resolve on user for atleast 4 seconds.
It is the highest DPS stamina ability in the game.
It bestows passive crit on the user when slotted.
ok i concede. there is one comparable move that only stamblades have access too. how about another comparable
Problem is if you nerf Wrecking Blow then Stamsorcs will be even more ***, and we don't need to penalize them further.
Feel free to champion the crusade of nerfing Wrecking Blow, but then you also have to adress that issue atleast. Stam DKs I couldn't give less of a *** about, they will manage, but Stamsorcs are going to feel the pain.1 -
Toc de Malsvi✭✭✭✭✭
✭dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO wrote: »
ok lets compare
one has CC one dosent.
thats a huge difference. if someone does nothing but suprise attack you lol unless they start using other abilities
Worst comparison ever.....
One is instant, applies fracture and has a shorter range.
One has a 1 second cast time, and knocks you down.
WB is somewhat easily avoidable precluding you are actually paying attention to who is using WB on you.
SA is not as easily avoidable but also does not knock you down, however it applies fracture and can hit you more often for roughly the same damage.
SA and WB both are lol if your opponent only uses the one skill, although you will take more damage more often as SA is harder to avoid.Legendary Archer of ValenwoodBosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Templar's are evil..0 -
puncturdylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO wrote: »dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO wrote: »
ok lets compare
one has CC one dosent.
thats a huge difference. if someone does nothing but suprise attack you lol unless they start using other abilities
In combination with Cloak then Surprise Attack can be used as a powerful CC.
It add Major Fracture.
It bestows Major Ward and Major Resolve on user for atleast 4 seconds.
It is the highest DPS stamina ability in the game.
It bestows passive crit on the user when slotted.
ok i concede. there is one comparable move that only stamblades have access too. how about another comparable
Problem is if you nerf Wrecking Blow then Stamsorcs will be even more ***, and we don't need to penalize them further.
Feel free to champion the crusade of nerfing Wrecking Blow, but then you also have to adress that issue atleast. Stam DKs I couldn't give less of a *** about, they will manage, but Stamsorcs are going to feel the pain.
the fact that there is a build that relies on an op move is a terrible argument not to balance. Im not even saying it needs a nerf. but if its not nerfed then they need to add more insane moves which are cheap that give high direct damage with cc and buffs so there is more diversity. BUT i would rather a nerf then more stupidly op moves. imagine they made dark flare half the cost and made it unbashable so templars could just stand in one spot and spam it does that sound fun or just stupid.0 -
Recremen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It's melee range and avoidable even after the cast has already begun, that's the balance point. Show me some other moves that are melee range, have a wind up, and can be avoided after the cast, then we can talk.Men'Do PC NA AD Khajiit
Grand High Illustrious Mid-Tier PvP/PvE Bussmunster1 -
RoyJade✭✭✭✭✭
✭dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO wrote: »Imagine they made dark flare half the cost and made it unbashable so templars could just stand in one spot and spam it does that sound fun or just stupid.
It will still be dodgeable easily and more : reflectable
Stamsorc really need a stamina based attack (and a powerful one, let's be honest thundering presence is fun with atro + steel tornado for two second, but not for nearly all other situation), actually they only can rely to WB spam or snipe spam (and bombard/tornado in aoe). WB is powerful especially with the bugs, so ZOS need to change both WB and stamsorc situation.0 -
EnOeZ✭✭✭✭david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »True story: when the changes were made to Wrecking Blow, lots of people pointed out that it would be OP, especially when ZOS decided to make it uninterruptible.
Wrobel overruled them and said, nah, it will be fine. Then left it as is for a year.
True story!
Plot twist: he still somehow has the job as combat lead!
Wrobel is a genius ability designer, if somebody has not notice yet...
Apparently he works on set design too. Seriously he should do that only and leave combat and ability design to someone with vision and a full mathematical grasp on every change he makes.
If that person has good enough social skills to interact and truly talk with players and theorycrafter, even better.Edited by EnOeZ on February 15, 2016 10:41PM1 -
Essiaga✭✭✭✭dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO wrote: »
It wasnt a serious post - and its probably not worth fighting about. ZOS will tell you to wait until Update 10, thats when they intend to work on weapon skill lines it appears.
I think it needs to be looked at for sure, just as the other weapon skill lines that dont offer good lineups to be a primary weapon need to be looked at. This skill needs adjustment, and as soon as it is adjusted with no other changes/options - my stam sorc will be that much worse to play, and other stam classes will suffer just as well. This is the unfortunate reality of the balance issues were running into. I cant disagree, and yet the solution hurts classes at the bottom of the food chain that gain nothing going into this patch except a 25% damage reduction due to hardy passive while our ults still dont scale and hit half as hard as a proxy det does when used against 1 person.
What the hell is really going on man - I cannot say.
I agree completely with this premise. Don't punish, balance. Its why I want more defensive skills/mitigation for the Templar class. So that BOL can be addressed without punishing the class. Look what happened when the removed miss chance and replaced it with no other mitigation. No class/build should be so punished.
WB is super powerful though and does need addressed, at some point. Knock down and Stun w/ lag etc, are pretty nasty combo.1 -
Master_Kas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO wrote: »
ok lets compare
one has CC one dosent.
thats a huge difference. if someone does nothing but suprise attack you lol unless they start using other abilities
In combination with Cloak then Surprise Attack can be used as a powerful CC.
It add Major Fracture.
It bestows Major Ward and Major Resolve on user for atleast 4 seconds.
It is the highest DPS stamina ability in the game.
It bestows passive crit on the user when slotted.
If someone does nothing but Wrecking Blow you then LOL unless they use anything for defense, I completely annihilate people only spamming Wrecking Blow unless they catch my outnumbered or off guard.
Correction: surprise attack doesn't give crit. Thats a assissination skilline passive, while surprise attack in the shadow skilline.
Now carry on with your discussion ^^EU | PC0 -
Essiaga✭✭✭✭It's melee range and avoidable even after the cast has already begun, that's the balance point. Show me some other moves that are melee range, have a wind up, and can be avoided after the cast, then we can talk.
Jabs has a attacks and each of them can be avoid, do less damage, don't empower, knockdown, or stun. Also with Gap closer everything is in melee range, not to mention there's plenty of ranged options for interrupt. No cast time/channel should be uninterrupted. Its a slap in the face to the Templar. Does anyone else suffer a cast time/channel?
It's super powerful and can use a nerf when the time is right. There needs to be viable alternatives and even the Temp and DK stam morphs are lack luster.
This game is kinds of out of balance.0 -
Essiaga✭✭✭✭
Yeah surprise attack is so much more powerful:
- combined with animation canceling it does way more DPS than WB
- it is major fracture debuff
- it is a CC as well
-and it bufs up your stats passively while slotted
Puncture:
- costs 30% less than Surprise Attack
- deals 20% less damage than Surprise Attack
- applies Major Fracture debuff
- can be morphed to apply Major Breach debuff
- can be morphed to apply Minor Resolve buff
- Master Sword allows it to heal for 2k
Yet no one calls it out for being OP.
It's the knock down + stun. No one likes to lose control of their character.
If they do suggest they roll a Templar. They self CC, self snare, and are caught in channels and cast times constantly.1 -
acw37162✭✭✭✭✭
✭dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO wrote: »
Surprise attack
Crysrtal Fragments
Steel Tornado
Breath of Life
Barrier
Dragon Leap
Snipe
bombard
Every gap closer in the game
Do you need more?
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