On changing Stamina Dk Fire damage to poison.

ContraTempo · February 2016

Pangnirtung wrote: »

Why do the rules keep getting changed?

Every few months a class is deemed over powered and is nerfed. WTF is going on?

Eventually our characters will be only able to whack at each other with foam swords to cause "annoyance" damage.

PKLdude · February 2016

I don't understand why they can't leave it as such and keep them fire and make nb base on poison. When you think of dragon first thing is usually fire, assassin you think of subterfuge/poison etc. I play a dk healer and tank and a nb healer I think this is stupid. Work on nb since they are getting hit pretty hard take off magicka as a focus of a lot of their skills and put them to poison and stam, then they'll synergize better with the bows. Seriously can ZOS be so bassackwards about common sense changes. Dk to poison lord they are getting more lost. Funny thing is they said they really only have about five ears of planned material, almost two of those already have been heavy fixes and massive nerfing, so a third of its life span had been shifting massively.

olsborg · February 2016

Snakeknights!

Katahdin · February 2016

PKLdude wrote: »

I don't understand why they can't leave it as such and keep them fire and make nb base on poison. When you think of dragon first thing is usually fire, assassin you think of subterfuge/poison etc. I play a dk healer and tank and a nb healer I think this is stupid. Work on nb since they are getting hit pretty hard take off magicka as a focus of a lot of their skills and put them to poison and stam, then they'll synergize better with the bows. Seriously can ZOS be so bassackwards about common sense changes. Dk to poison lord they are getting more lost. Funny thing is they said they really only have about five ears of planned material, almost two of those already have been heavy fixed and massive needing, so a third of its life span had been shifting massively.

@Worbel This makes much much more sense if you want some sort of specialization with classes for a different "feel". If you make Stam DK into poison instead of fire, my stam dunmer DK will be worthless and I might as well delete the character I spent 6 months upgrading horse speed, stam, bags and additional storage because I will no longer want to play it again. What a waste.

Chrlynsch · February 2016

The idea came from optimization and changing of champion points coming from Thieves Guild update. Flame, shock, ice and magic are all under one star. Physical, poison, disease are now under one star.... A stamina dragonknight would have to split points between stars where magic could dump all points into one and be better off for it. A simple alteration of passives would make this all pan out just fine. Would the stamina dark elf get the full effect of it's racial passives, nope, but a stam dk never really was taking full advantage of the dark elf/ dk synergy. few eggs must crack to make an omelet.

SirDopey · February 2016

With the the way the champion point system is set up wouldn't you get higher damage out of it being poison even with the loss of the fire damage passives??

Krycek89 · February 2016

Pangnirtung wrote: »

Why do the rules keep getting changed?

Every few months a class is deemed over powered and is nerfed. WTF is going on?

#DarthWrobel
"I am Altering the deal, pray i do not alter it any further"

Templars- now Dks getting the shaft
I guess we all have to be Nb for the thieves guild

cazlonb16_ESO · February 2016

Junkogen wrote: »

Why wouldn't they make stamina NB damage poison? That seems to make more sense to me. Hmmmm...this is a very curious decision, indeed.

I just don't think of DKs as poison damage dealers.

The point of the idea is to get better control over stamina vs. magicka damage numbers via a clearer distinction of CP passives. It would basically be a clean up operation and not a lore driven change. The issue is unique to Dks with their many fire based attacks.

Nbs simply do not have the problem, so there is nothing to fix with them.

PKLdude · February 2016

I don't get how this would be better. Stam would focuson the one star or it you want to go fire you'd focus on the other, the pasives as they are now would be either scaling with stam of magicka, why do we need to change the core of a class. I think it is funny people are simply "oooooo poison me likey I'm kk with dat." Instead of keeping dk as fire based and giving the nb for example the focus on poison. This would make the most sense.

MrBeatDown · February 2016

SirDopey wrote: »

With the the way the champion point system is set up wouldn't you get higher damage out of it being poison even with the loss of the fire damage passives??

Faulgor wrote: »

Good. I hope this brings more logic back into the abilities of this game. There was never any sense to having a magical fire ability need stamina to use.

yake82 wrote: »

Sounds like good idea to me. Of course all the champ points and passives needs checking too.

Also... Green Dragon Blood poison aura, similar to Inferno. Do it please.

cazlonb16_ESO wrote: »

Junkogen wrote: »

Why wouldn't they make stamina NB damage poison? That seems to make more sense to me. Hmmmm...this is a very curious decision, indeed.

I just don't think of DKs as poison damage dealers.

The point of the idea is to get better control over stamina vs. magicka damage numbers via a clearer distinction of CP passives. It would basically be a clean up operation and not a lore driven change. The issue is unique to Dks with their many fire based attacks.

Nbs simply do not have the problem, so there is nothing to fix with them.

[snip]

MrBeatDown wrote: »

I just watched the ESO live episode again, and Wrobel says,

" a lot of the class abilities which are a stamina morph, UM, they'll do a damage type that isn't really congruent with their champion passives....So, the, the mighty passive, gives, you know, extra damage to physical, poison, and disease, BUT, there's dragon knight abilities, which do, you know, they cost stamina, but they deal fire damage, then people are having to divide their points between the two, SO, UM, We have a really cool idea, that um, were interested in pursuing where, you would have, UH, sort of an extra damage type, UM, for the class, So, for example,the dragon knight would be able to do fire damage for his magic abilities, and poison damage for his stamina abilities, UM, So, So that would also require updating the effects though"

And BLah BLah Blah he is totally lost on what hes saying. I don't know where he is getting his information from, but clearly this is not something that he has done any research on.

you can see it here @ 28:15 into the show.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKu7GnANIO8

? Do you guys even test this stuff. He must be talking about PTS because that is not the way Fire Damage on Stamina morphs of ardent flame abilities currently work.

Whats going on here? Others can confirm that this is currently not the way that fire damage for stamina morphs of ardent flame abilities currently work on live. WTH? I had to watch it again, but yeah, Thats exactly what he said......

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

RoyJade wrote: »

MrBeatDown wrote: »

The Cp Passive reads very broken then, because the skill morph TT is pretty clear that Weapon Damage and Max Stamina increases the damage, leading one to believe that Mighty Buffs the damage. Which, Is pretty much irrelevant anyway, because you have to have mighty maxed to get damage from S/B skills (WHICH IS STILL GARBAGE) and you are forced to use the ardent flames passive for more fire damage with your dots and you can also crit with these fire skills. Elemental Expert will not boost the damage of Breath or Unstable stamina morphs, But it does Buff the FOB damage. Thats the way its currently working for me on Live anyway. I dont know what this new broke patch update will do to it all since they are changing up the CP Skill passives with this update.

Mighty don't scale with weapon damage and stamina. It boost only with "physical" type damage, as elemental expert boost "fire", "frost", "thunder" type damage and thaumaturge boost "magic", "poison" and "disease" damage (on live actually).
The reason why leap is so powerful as a stamDK is because it's the only ultimate who does "physical" damage, so it scale with mighty.
Another example, mighty actually boost stone fist even if it's a magicka skill, just because stone fist does "physical" damage. Same with the initial tick of dark talon (both will be changed from physical to fire damage in TG patch).

With this change, it's basically a 25% damage bonus for these skills for every 300+ cp stam DK. Fire damage would be better with an average of 1200 cp (mighty, precise, the new thaumaturge and elemental expert capped), but we won't have 1200 cp from a long time.

And yes, if mighty was a boost for all "stamina-based" attack and ele expert a boost for all "magicka-based" attack, it would solve all the problem (including ultimate, killer blade and some other) at once.

Uh I pool points into in mighty and it does increase my unstable flames and firey breath skills. Mighty effects anything that scales with weapon and stamina even class morphs.

RoyJade wrote: »

It does, at least for me. Ele expert boost my stamina fire damage.
With the TG maj, mighty will boost poison and disease damage, so the change can be good for a balance point of view. For lore, that's an another story.

WarlordGrievous wrote: »

Let me ask everyone here one question what is the first thing you think of when you hear dragon?Poison or Fire?

Honestly ? Ice
A fire-based dragon is the "classic" dragon, but a poison dragon is more a reptile (or undead) dragon. I don't see any problem with it. But I prefer ice-based flying lizard.

Uh mighty increases my unstable flames and fiery breath damage. So yea.

Ardent Flame Stamina Morph Abilities are not increased with Elemental expert......It is increased with mighty already, and thats what he wants to change it too, but it already works that way, so now he is going to change the colors and animations of the abilities because he has to add his special twist to something that is not broken.

Moderator Note: Post edited for flaming/bashing

dodgehopper_ESO · February 2016

That's pretty powerful, to be able to boost fire or poison depending on if you are magicka or stamina. At least if I'm understanding it right he's saying the Stamina build would convert all the ardent flame passives into ardent poison?

phillyproduct · February 2016

This thread is pitiful.

No one reads or watches eso live people just come 2 the forums read the title of a forum and spaz out with the little bit of info THEY THINK they know.

So i will clear a few things up

1. These are IDEAS he was throwing around he DID NOT say these are guaranteed changes for the next patch
2. This was in reference too cp passive mighty buffing poison,physical,diease damage Which is what stam use stack All stam users not just dk's
3. This is a Change to Maybe come in update 10/Dark brotherhood, Which means this is ATLEAST 4Months away so this could easily be changed or cancelled I.E spellcrafting
4. You actually would want this change, this actually helps you currently as a stam dk you Dont wanna divide you cps across 2trees missing out on passives
5. All stam classes would benefit from this change NB having poison damage, templar and sorc having stam attacks that scale off diease, poison or physical will help you do MORE damage

This change MEANS Zos realize the messed up with only 1 ultimate doing physical damage, This change in mindset shows they grown as a company and is listening on the forums the heard people complaining about ultimates doing magic damage and they hear they nb complaining about killers blade doing magic damage.

People reading comprehension is important dont fall for click bait on the forum trashing the dev that design the game we play is all in good fun every now and then but every thread has 10people saying fire wrobel its kinda overkill now, especially when he actually is proposing a good fix

Anilahation · February 2016

Dragon Knights, Only fire or frost damage is acceptable from a lore standpoint.

If they want to change fire stamina dots to another magic, then go frost since at least it makes sense and no class has frost damage.

phillyproduct · February 2016

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »

Dragon Knights, Only fire or frost damage is acceptable from a lore standpoint.

If they want to change fire stamina dots to another magic, then go frost since at least it makes sense and no class has frost damage.

Thats not fixing the problem of cp's being placed in multiple trees that is the issue here

slumber_sandb16_ESO · February 2016

Physical damage DoTs.

MrBeatDown · February 2016

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

That's pretty powerful, to be able to boost fire or poison depending on if you are magicka or stamina. At least if I'm understanding it right he's saying the Stamina build would convert all the ardent flame passives into ardent poison?

Whats powerful about changing the color of a skill?

The power increase he thinks its going to add is already there, so changing the color of the skill wont change anything. Please explain to us why you think changing the color of the stam moph will increase the damage, so that all of the people that understand how it currently works can laugh at you.

Anhedonie · February 2016

It's funny and cool at the same time to be honest. I don't mind, but it's gonna take a lot of effort to change all passives, so they are useful not only for magicka builds.

PKLdude · February 2016

Im not sure either how this would change anything damage wise. They wouldn't be able to combine and apply two damages through the one star otherwise they would have stam grosely overpowering fire, they would have to minimize the amount of physical damage and convert the rest to dot poison or straight poison damage, which wouldn't do anything really other than give it a different look. Again, they should keep it as is and direct the poison focus to nb and convert some of the magicka based passives or morphs to poison, which the nbs would be happy since they want more stam based morphs and give them a bit more flavor to the assassin class. Then they would have a poison dot focus aspect of the stam skills and possibly more skills that were at one point magicka based focused on poison and therefore balancing the internal issues of the class, especially after the changes to cloak and such. Then have a posion focus would then bring in cohesion with the bow, if they changes some of the skills and passives correctly and hopefully give something back to the class they already hit pretty hard. I just don't see why giving green flame to a dragon knight some how makes things better or changes anything other than putting focus onto a class that at this point is doing fairly well and changing the style of the class. Again, I play DK as a tank, healer, dps and have a NB healer, so although the changes were mostly stam/magicka changes to the nb class the only thing that bothered me was the funnel health change. I can live with that seeing as siphon was made to now hit the healer as well, the increase to damage from refreshing path is whatever to me. I would have rather kept the damage as is and kept funnel health hitting two targets, but at least it hits me so technically it is two targets if you are splitting hairs, but I would rather it be healing my team instead of me, since I can through a healing ward up and usually be just fine.

I realize someone above thinks that everyone here thinks this means it is a definite change and we lack reading comprehension. However this is not the case I as well as others are voicing our opinion to not have this happen and hopefully they will listen and not do so.

PKLdude · February 2016

Unless people are simple liking the change because they don't feel that fire should come from a stam morph and having a different color would make them feel more comfortable with it and poison would be therefore more look/lore/whatever friendly in there head. However I just think they shouldn't waste resources and artist time and such and just move onto something other.

Vrienda · February 2016

...what? That doesn't even make sense, what is dragony about poison? Guess my Dunmer's racial isn't going to be very useful either.

corrosivechains · February 2016

how about instead of exacerbating the problem of damage scaling to our resource pools(and by proxy the champion points associated with those pools), they decouple the damage from them and base it on other things like and bring back hybrid build viability?

I swear these developers have never played any of the other Elder Scrolls games, cause if they did they'd understand that nearly all of the prefab classes WERE hybrid classes.

Ilterendi · February 2016

PKLdude wrote: »

Im not sure either how this would change anything damage wise. They wouldn't be able to combine and apply two damages through the one star otherwise they would have stam grosely overpowering fire, they would have to minimize the amount of physical damage and convert the rest to dot poison or straight poison damage, which wouldn't do anything really other than give it a different look. Again, they should keep it as is and direct the poison focus to nb and convert some of the magicka based passives or morphs to poison, which the nbs would be happy since they want more stam based morphs and give them a bit more flavor to the assassin class. Then they would have a poison dot focus aspect of the stam skills and possibly more skills that were at one point magicka based focused on poison and therefore balancing the internal issues of the class, especially after the changes to cloak and such. Then have a posion focus would then bring in cohesion with the bow, if they changes some of the skills and passives correctly and hopefully give something back to the class they already hit pretty hard. I just don't see why giving green flame to a dragon knight some how makes things better or changes anything other than putting focus onto a class that at this point is doing fairly well and changing the style of the class. Again, I play DK as a tank, healer, dps and have a NB healer, so although the changes were mostly stam/magicka changes to the nb class the only thing that bothered me was the funnel health change. I can live with that seeing as siphon was made to now hit the healer as well, the increase to damage from refreshing path is whatever to me. I would have rather kept the damage as is and kept funnel health hitting two targets, but at least it hits me so technically it is two targets if you are splitting hairs, but I would rather it be healing my team instead of me, since I can through a healing ward up and usually be just fine.

I realize someone above thinks that everyone here thinks this means it is a definite change and we lack reading comprehension. However this is not the case I as well as others are voicing our opinion to not have this happen and hopefully they will listen and not do so.

If they give NBs effective poison skills in place of our magic dmg/stamina costs I'll *** in my pants. Seriously. Make this a thing!! DKs stamfire already takes into account CPs and weapon power, as stated multiple times. Do the tooltip a create confusion, damn straight. Tooltip a need to be adjusted, not the skills themselves. Although, blue/green flames would be cool to differentiate between Stam and Mag.

dodgehopper_ESO · February 2016

Aeula wrote: »

...what? That doesn't even make sense, what is dragony about poison? Guess my Dunmer's racial isn't going to be very useful either.

I'm actually adversely effected as well in this scenario. On the one hand I think it would be cool if they could expand our abilities, on another I almost feel they should add more class skill lines if they want to do this... or come out with SPELLCRAFTING.

Witar · February 2016

Would be kind of cool if they made stamina breath green and called it poison breath
Same as zombie attack
Would switch from magicka to vomit on foes

PKLdude · February 2016

Ilterendi wrote: »

PKLdude wrote: »

Im not sure either how this would change anything damage wise. They wouldn't be able to combine and apply two damages through the one star otherwise they would have stam grosely overpowering fire, they would have to minimize the amount of physical damage and convert the rest to dot poison or straight poison damage, which wouldn't do anything really other than give it a different look. Again, they should keep it as is and direct the poison focus to nb and convert some of the magicka based passives or morphs to poison, which the nbs would be happy since they want more stam based morphs and give them a bit more flavor to the assassin class. Then they would have a poison dot focus aspect of the stam skills and possibly more skills that were at one point magicka based focused on poison and therefore balancing the internal issues of the class, especially after the changes to cloak and such. Then have a posion focus would then bring in cohesion with the bow, if they changes some of the skills and passives correctly and hopefully give something back to the class they already hit pretty hard. I just don't see why giving green flame to a dragon knight some how makes things better or changes anything other than putting focus onto a class that at this point is doing fairly well and changing the style of the class. Again, I play DK as a tank, healer, dps and have a NB healer, so although the changes were mostly stam/magicka changes to the nb class the only thing that bothered me was the funnel health change. I can live with that seeing as siphon was made to now hit the healer as well, the increase to damage from refreshing path is whatever to me. I would have rather kept the damage as is and kept funnel health hitting two targets, but at least it hits me so technically it is two targets if you are splitting hairs, but I would rather it be healing my team instead of me, since I can through a healing ward up and usually be just fine.

I realize someone above thinks that everyone here thinks this means it is a definite change and we lack reading comprehension. However this is not the case I as well as others are voicing our opinion to not have this happen and hopefully they will listen and not do so.

If they give NBs effective poison skills in place of our magic dmg/stamina costs I'll *** in my pants. Seriously. Make this a thing!! DKs stamfire already takes into account CPs and weapon power, as stated multiple times. Do the tooltip a create confusion, damn straight. Tooltip a need to be adjusted, not the skills themselves. Although, blue/green flames would be cool to differentiate between Stam and Mag.

Hey im down for that man, grab the diaper. I mean I think DKs are in a good place and instead of changing the colour on flame, they should focus poison to the class where it most makes sense and that is the assassin class. Hopefully this happens but lets be real here,..... this is ZOS. I expect more templar nerfs, blue flames (umm why not right), and no stam sorc morphs. Add in some more lag and well the game seems like a ZOS production lol

Mojmir · February 2016

Witar wrote: »

Would be kind of cool if they made stamina breath green and called it poison breath
Same as zombie attack
Would switch from magicka to vomit on foes

Peyrite would be proud

Wollust · February 2016

Poisonknight sounds fun

Elsonso · February 2016

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »

Dragon Knights, Only fire or frost damage is acceptable from a lore standpoint.

If they want to change fire stamina dots to another magic, then go frost since at least it makes sense and no class has frost damage.

How do you figure? What is the lore basis for this statement?

While I think that Dragonknights should only do fire damage, my perspective is from a "separation of class abilities" perspective more than a lore perspective. Poison is the realm of classes more along the lines of Nightblades. I don't see a reason for Dragonknights to do frost. If anyone should have frost, it should be a magicka Sorcerer skill.

Ilterendi · February 2016

lordrichter wrote: »

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »

Dragon Knights, Only fire or frost damage is acceptable from a lore standpoint.

If they want to change fire stamina dots to another magic, then go frost since at least it makes sense and no class has frost damage.

How do you figure? What is the lore basis for this statement?

While I think that Dragonknights should only do fire damage, my perspective is from a "separation of class abilities" perspective more than a lore perspective. Poison is the realm of classes more along the lines of Nightblades. I don't see a reason for Dragonknights to do frost. If anyone should have frost, it should be a magicka Necromancer skill.

fixed that for you.

As much as I fear another class system entering the mix, I wish there was a Necromancy class. No. NBs do not fill that role.

Elsonso · February 2016

Ilterendi wrote: »

As much as I fear another class system entering the mix, I wish there was a Necromancy class. No. NBs do not fill that role.

I am a firm believer that players should not be able to summon the dead as part of normal game play. Yes, it is a thing in Elder Scrolls, but I don't think that it is appropriate for this game. Too much of this game is built around Necromancy=Bad and Elder Scrolls tends to stay away from players playing Bad. In this game, there is not a really satisfying way to pass them off as Good.

Don't get me wrong. I like necromancy and undead things. I have a my own graveyard and practice it in my free time, but I have to look at it realistically and I just don't think it fits into ESO.