bowmanz607 wrote: »Seriously people what is the issue? This benefits new and long term players. All this thread is, is players boasting how much a they can earn or saying how to earn it quickly. Not everyone wants to spam healing springs and mutagen. Not everyone can 1vx, not everyone wants to run in groups, not everyone wants to farm, not all players have the same skill set. Not all players want kept fights.
bowmanz607 wrote: »Seriously people what is the issue? This benefits new and long term players. All this thread is, is players boasting how much a they can earn or saying how to earn it quickly. Not everyone wants to spam healing springs and mutagen. Not everyone can 1vx, not everyone wants to run in groups, not everyone wants to farm, not all players have the same skill set. Not all players want kept fights.
CatchMeTrolling wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »Seriously people what is the issue? This benefits new and long term players. All this thread is, is players boasting how much a they can earn or saying how to earn it quickly. Not everyone wants to spam healing springs and mutagen. Not everyone can 1vx, not everyone wants to run in groups, not everyone wants to farm, not all players have the same skill set. Not all players want kept fights.
Give me undaunted because not everyone wants to sit in a boring dungeon either, not everyone wants to put together a group or use group finder, everyone also doesn't want to rely on rng so why not automatically give us our desired reward after 5 tries, not everyone wants to do maelstrom just to be disappointed etc.
It was 6.4 mill, get it when you get it, I didn't even care about how long it took when I started playing because I love playing pvp , didn't even know how much I needed until I was like a prefect.
This isn't to benefit long time players or new players (they wouldn't even know about the amount it takes) it's to benefit pve players. We all should work towards unlocking, not a big deal it's an mmo things don't just get handed to you, though the way developers are now it's starting to seem like it. That's the issue they're essentially handing it out , also doubling ap while they're at it so it'll be even easier.
Let's say 10k turns into 20k, it'll only take 50 days to max out for the "average player " 15 for the top ap farmers if we're to consider doubling the gains.
You don't see the problem with that? How long does it take to research everything when it comes to blacksmithing & all the crafting , should we change that too?
This is not too far off from people always saying "L2P" I'm sorry but this is mostly just a "L2GetAP" issue. I mean one guy said you had to zerg to get emp AND that was the ONLY way though I got it solo every time. Most of these players should have more experience than me to know that's not true, he also said it's very hard to get ap solo which isn't the case. There was a time I dominated the leaderboards solo because I never really liked groups.
I did it by millions, players accused me of boosting such as by standing in the middle of siege just to heal MYSELF for ap and mass reviving people. I say this because this is how oblivious a lot of people are when it comes to ap.
xskinzcity wrote: »xskinzcity wrote: »xskinzcity wrote: »I still dont understand how someone gains such little ap in an hour/day. I can literally spawn into a keep, run into the field and kill 8 people in a span of 10 mins or less and already gain nearly 10k ap.
I find your claim difficult to believe seeing as how that would mean each player you killed was worth at the very least 1.5Kish AP per kill, and players of that magnitude tend to not be that easy to defeat(nevermind the fact such a value is literally non-existent, as no one is THAT good). that or you got a GIANT defense tick. GIANT. Do not be offended, I just do not fully believe you.
Ignoring that, people earn that small amount of AP per day for one simple reason: not everyone is an elite PvPer, in fact many are average or below average like me, and it takes us a bit to earn a lot of AP.
I used to be worth about 400 or so AP, back when I could PvP worth a damn. lol.
Killing 8 players is nearly 1k ap if each is giving me 800+ ap per kill and i kill small groups no problem if they are busy sieging. I have over 30k kills in pvp and have a perfect build for my nightblade. I gained 20 k ap in 5 mins afew weeks ago from wiping a group of 20 at a keep plus a massive defensive tick because there was onlt 3 of us defending.
Good for you, but it only proves that you are way above average. Obviously average PvPer is happy to kill another average PvPer 1 on 1. Hardly ever kills a group like you do with no problem. So I'm not sure what you don't undestand about those AP gains.
Tbh if players are havin a hard time gaining AP... then more than likely they are playing in their alliance's buff server. Trust me just go to a different campaign where your alliance is outnumbered and you will get more action plus ap gains.
CatchMeTrolling wrote: »driosketch wrote: »xskinzcity wrote: »xskinzcity wrote: »I still dont understand how someone gains such little ap in an hour/day. I can literally spawn into a keep, run into the field and kill 8 people in a span of 10 mins or less and already gain nearly 10k ap.
I find your claim difficult to believe seeing as how that would mean each player you killed was worth at the very least 1.5Kish AP per kill, and players of that magnitude tend to not be that easy to defeat(nevermind the fact such a value is literally non-existent, as no one is THAT good). that or you got a GIANT defense tick. GIANT. Do not be offended, I just do not fully believe you.
Ignoring that, people earn that small amount of AP per day for one simple reason: not everyone is an elite PvPer, in fact many are average or below average like me, and it takes us a bit to earn a lot of AP.
I used to be worth about 400 or so AP, back when I could PvP worth a damn. lol.
Killing 8 players is nearly 1k ap if each is giving me 800+ ap per kill and i kill small groups no problem if they are busy sieging. I have over 30k kills in pvp and have a perfect build for my nightblade. I gained 20 k ap in 5 mins afew weeks ago from wiping a group of 20 at a keep plus a massive defensive tick because there was onlt 3 of us defending.
i still dont believe you,(and roughly 800AP per kill is about 6400K, a big difference from 10K, again, at least over 1K per kill for 10K) but lets say that is true, you must realize that not everyone is as good as you. this notion that everyone has to be as good at AP farming as the top % of players is unfair and illogical
ZOS doesn't give me maelstrom weapons for doing the first 6 levels in VMA. I also don't expect them to.
Not a good comparison. Does it take the average player months to make it through those levels. Also skills are very different than rare gear. Gear rewards are an achievement to be earned, skills are meant to unlock under normal pregression. After enough time, players will unlock all those skills anyways, adjusting that time frame does not change this.
Let's consider your they will unlock it eventually approach, what's eventually? According to ZOS that could very well be years right, adjusting the time frame does change it, it changes the time you'll unlock it IF you ever unlock it.
And they both are meant to be earned & if we're talking what's "meant" to be then ZOS had it right the first time because in mmos things are meant to take time. It's players that will never get a maelstrom arena award, it's players that will never max out pvp skills and it's players that will never max out undaunted.
I started playing on console & with one player I've accumulated enough ap to have maxed out at least 3 times , it's some players that's been playing on PC that hasn't done it once. It's starting to be normal to see players between tribune - prefect we even already have a legate about to be a general. Though with that being said it's very possible to get more ap than what people are currently getting I took multiple month breaks & I'm sitting at praetorian (about 400k from palatine) so understand why it's very hard for people to believe that 10k ap a day is the norm from an actual pvp player.
xskinzcity wrote: »xskinzcity wrote: »I still dont understand how someone gains such little ap in an hour/day. I can literally spawn into a keep, run into the field and kill 8 people in a span of 10 mins or less and already gain nearly 10k ap.
I find your claim difficult to believe seeing as how that would mean each player you killed was worth at the very least 1.5Kish AP per kill, and players of that magnitude tend to not be that easy to defeat(nevermind the fact such a value is literally non-existent, as no one is THAT good). that or you got a GIANT defense tick. GIANT. Do not be offended, I just do not fully believe you.
Ignoring that, people earn that small amount of AP per day for one simple reason: not everyone is an elite PvPer, in fact many are average or below average like me, and it takes us a bit to earn a lot of AP.
I used to be worth about 400 or so AP, back when I could PvP worth a damn. lol.
Killing 8 players is nearly 1k ap if each is giving me 800+ ap per kill and i kill small groups no problem if they are busy sieging. I have over 30k kills in pvp and have a perfect build for my nightblade. I gained 20 k ap in 5 mins afew weeks ago from wiping a group of 20 at a keep plus a massive defensive tick because there was onlt 3 of us defending.
i still dont believe you,(and roughly 800AP per kill is about 6400K, a big difference from 10K, again, at least over 1K per kill for 10K) but lets say that is true, you must realize that not everyone is as good as you. this notion that everyone has to be as good at AP farming as the top % of players is unfair and illogical
ZOS doesn't give me maelstrom weapons for doing the first 6 levels in VMA. I also don't expect them to.
It won't be goodbye to large groups it will be goodbye to every group because the server lag will be horrible.PrinceFabious wrote: »With changes in proxy and ap...imagine everyone and their mother running proxy. If the goal was to completely remove large groups then excellent job Zeni.
ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »Some quick notes as to why we’re making the changes to the AP required for the Assault/Support skill lines:We want these skill lines to be a lot more accessible than what I noted above. We made some changes to how AP is awarded and that will help some, but it’s not enough - we need to reduce the amount of AP required as well. That being said, the numbers that are currently on PTS are too low and will be updated in next week’s PTS build. The new numbers will be:
- The top 5 AP earners worldwide, over the past 8 weeks are averaging 32k AP/hour. This means it takes roughly 212 hours of PvP to reach rank 10 in the skill lines for them.
- Over the past 8 weeks, the average PvP player earns ~10k AP/day. This means it takes roughly 692 days of PvP for them to reach rank 10 in the skill lines.
- Rank 2 – 700
- Rank 3 – 8,000
- Rank 4 – 38,000
- Rank 5 – 98,000
- Rank 6 – 188,000
- Rank 7 – 308,000
- Rank 8 – 488,000
- Rank 9 – 758,000
- Rank 10 – 1,158,000
(Note: this is the cumulative AP, so to reach rank 10 you need to earn 1,158,000 AP)
With these changes the “Top 5” group will be able to unlock all AvA skills in roughly 36 hours, while the average player will take roughly 116 days. It’s still a long haul effort for the average player, but it’s at least in the realm of possible for them now.
Also, while I’m on the topic of AP earning, we used this same data to help set the AP cost for the items that Adhazabi Aba-daro sells. (Cyrodiil rare item merchant) The “Top 5” group will be able to earn 200k AP in about 6 hours, while the average player will take about 20 days.
russhenderson85b14_ESO wrote: »So long as key abilities for stamina players who want to progress in vMSA (Vigor, Caltrops) are locked behind a PVP-wall, I'm more than fine with this change.
driosketch wrote: »xskinzcity wrote: »xskinzcity wrote: »I still dont understand how someone gains such little ap in an hour/day. I can literally spawn into a keep, run into the field and kill 8 people in a span of 10 mins or less and already gain nearly 10k ap.
I find your claim difficult to believe seeing as how that would mean each player you killed was worth at the very least 1.5Kish AP per kill, and players of that magnitude tend to not be that easy to defeat(nevermind the fact such a value is literally non-existent, as no one is THAT good). that or you got a GIANT defense tick. GIANT. Do not be offended, I just do not fully believe you.
Ignoring that, people earn that small amount of AP per day for one simple reason: not everyone is an elite PvPer, in fact many are average or below average like me, and it takes us a bit to earn a lot of AP.
I used to be worth about 400 or so AP, back when I could PvP worth a damn. lol.
Killing 8 players is nearly 1k ap if each is giving me 800+ ap per kill and i kill small groups no problem if they are busy sieging. I have over 30k kills in pvp and have a perfect build for my nightblade. I gained 20 k ap in 5 mins afew weeks ago from wiping a group of 20 at a keep plus a massive defensive tick because there was onlt 3 of us defending.
i still dont believe you,(and roughly 800AP per kill is about 6400K, a big difference from 10K, again, at least over 1K per kill for 10K) but lets say that is true, you must realize that not everyone is as good as you. this notion that everyone has to be as good at AP farming as the top % of players is unfair and illogical
ZOS doesn't give me maelstrom weapons for doing the first 6 levels in VMA. I also don't expect them to.
Not a good comparison. Does it take the average player months to make it through those levels. Also skills are very different than rare gear. Gear rewards are an achievement to be earned, skills are meant to unlock under normal pregression. After enough time, players will unlock all those skills anyways, adjusting that time frame does not change this.
xskinzcity wrote: »xskinzcity wrote: »I still dont understand how someone gains such little ap in an hour/day. I can literally spawn into a keep, run into the field and kill 8 people in a span of 10 mins or less and already gain nearly 10k ap.
I find your claim difficult to believe seeing as how that would mean each player you killed was worth at the very least 1.5Kish AP per kill, and players of that magnitude tend to not be that easy to defeat(nevermind the fact such a value is literally non-existent, as no one is THAT good). that or you got a GIANT defense tick. GIANT. Do not be offended, I just do not fully believe you.
Ignoring that, people earn that small amount of AP per day for one simple reason: not everyone is an elite PvPer, in fact many are average or below average like me, and it takes us a bit to earn a lot of AP.
I used to be worth about 400 or so AP, back when I could PvP worth a damn. lol.
Killing 8 players is nearly 1k ap if each is giving me 800+ ap per kill and i kill small groups no problem if they are busy sieging. I have over 30k kills in pvp and have a perfect build for my nightblade. I gained 20 k ap in 5 mins afew weeks ago from wiping a group of 20 at a keep plus a massive defensive tick because there was onlt 3 of us defending.
i still dont believe you,(and roughly 800AP per kill is about 6400K, a big difference from 10K, again, at least over 1K per kill for 10K) but lets say that is true, you must realize that not everyone is as good as you. this notion that everyone has to be as good at AP farming as the top % of players is unfair and illogical
ZOS doesn't give me maelstrom weapons for doing the first 6 levels in VMA. I also don't expect them to.
VMA does not take anywhere NEAR as long as alliance war ranks. find another comparison.
"i also dont expect them to " I went thru the grind too manoekin, i too grinded for all of the abilities and have no issue doing so again, laziness and entitlement is not why i do not have an issue with the upcoming change
Septimus_Magna wrote: »russhenderson85b14_ESO wrote: »So long as key abilities for stamina players who want to progress in vMSA (Vigor, Caltrops) are locked behind a PVP-wall, I'm more than fine with this change.
All end game stuff is locked behind a frinkin PVE-wall of China.
Dont even compare two weeks of PVP to the insane PVE grind in order to get good passives and viable gear.
I wish they would line them up with Alliance Ranks. If they want those sorts of numbers, they could easily adjust them slightly to:
- Rank 2 – 700 (AR 1, Volunteer I)
- Rank 3 – 8,000 (AR 3, Rrcruit I)
- Rank 4 – 48,000 (AR 5, Tyro I)
- Rank 5 – 88,000 (AR 6, Tyro II)
- Rank 6 – 224,000 (AR 8, Legionary II)
- Rank 7 – 326,400 (AR 9, Veteran I)
- Rank 8 – 456,000 (AR 10, Veteran II)
- Rank 9 – 809,600 (AR 12, Corporal II)
- Rank 10 – 1,310,400 (AR 14, Sergeant II), or 1,040,000 (AR 13, Sergeant I)
I wish they would line them up with Alliance Ranks. If they want those sorts of numbers, they could easily adjust them slightly to:
- Rank 2 – 700 (AR 1, Volunteer I)
- Rank 3 – 8,000 (AR 3, Rrcruit I)
- Rank 4 – 48,000 (AR 5, Tyro I)
- Rank 5 – 88,000 (AR 6, Tyro II)
- Rank 6 – 224,000 (AR 8, Legionary II)
- Rank 7 – 326,400 (AR 9, Veteran I)
- Rank 8 – 456,000 (AR 10, Veteran II)
- Rank 9 – 809,600 (AR 12, Corporal II)
- Rank 10 – 1,310,400 (AR 14, Sergeant II), or 1,040,000 (AR 13, Sergeant I)
They are not even properly rounded as it is on live at the moment, as hilariously described by Speezhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTdrgms4_Gs
They're only out by, like, 1 point due to a typo in one of the early ranks. I think Alliance Rank 2 requires 901 AP instead of 900. We decided not to bother mentioning that in the table, as a typo of 1 point doesn't make a lot of difference.
I wish they would line them up with Alliance Ranks. If they want those sorts of numbers, they could easily adjust them slightly to:
- Rank 2 – 700 (AR 1, Volunteer I)
- Rank 3 – 8,000 (AR 3, Rrcruit I)
- Rank 4 – 48,000 (AR 5, Tyro I)
- Rank 5 – 88,000 (AR 6, Tyro II)
- Rank 6 – 224,000 (AR 8, Legionary II)
- Rank 7 – 326,400 (AR 9, Veteran I)
- Rank 8 – 456,000 (AR 10, Veteran II)
- Rank 9 – 809,600 (AR 12, Corporal II)
- Rank 10 – 1,310,400 (AR 14, Sergeant II), or 1,040,000 (AR 13, Sergeant I)
I wish they would line them up with Alliance Ranks. If they want those sorts of numbers, they could easily adjust them slightly to:
- Rank 2 – 700 (AR 1, Volunteer I)
- Rank 3 – 8,000 (AR 3, Rrcruit I)
- Rank 4 – 48,000 (AR 5, Tyro I)
- Rank 5 – 88,000 (AR 6, Tyro II)
- Rank 6 – 224,000 (AR 8, Legionary II)
- Rank 7 – 326,400 (AR 9, Veteran I)
- Rank 8 – 456,000 (AR 10, Veteran II)
- Rank 9 – 809,600 (AR 12, Corporal II)
- Rank 10 – 1,310,400 (AR 14, Sergeant II), or 1,040,000 (AR 13, Sergeant I)
They are not even properly rounded as it is on live at the moment, as hilariously described by Speezhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTdrgms4_Gs