PTS Discussion: AP needed to get Alliance War skills to 10

Elong

CN_Daniel wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Some quick notes as to why we’re making the changes to the AP required for the Assault/Support skill lines:

• The top 5 AP earners worldwide, over the past 8 weeks are averaging 32k AP/hour. This means it takes roughly 212 hours of PvP to reach rank 10 in the skill lines for them.
• Over the past 8 weeks, the average PvP player earns ~10k AP/day. This means it takes roughly 692 days of PvP for them to reach rank 10 in the skill lines.

We want these skill lines to be a lot more accessible than what I noted above. We made some changes to how AP is awarded and that will help some, but it’s not enough - we need to reduce the amount of AP required as well. That being said, the numbers that are currently on PTS are too low and will be updated in next week’s PTS build. The new numbers will be:

• Rank 2 – 700
• Rank 3 – 8,000
• Rank 4 – 38,000
• Rank 5 – 98,000
• Rank 6 – 188,000
• Rank 7 – 308,000
• Rank 8 – 488,000
• Rank 9 – 758,000
• Rank 10 – 1,158,000

(Note: this is the cumulative AP, so to reach rank 10 you need to earn 1,158,000 AP)

With these changes the “Top 5” group will be able to unlock all AvA skills in roughly 36 hours, while the average player will take roughly 116 days. It’s still a long haul effort for the average player, but it’s at least in the realm of possible for them now.

Also, while I’m on the topic of AP earning, we used this same data to help set the AP cost for the items that Adhazabi Aba-daro sells. (Cyrodiil rare item merchant) The “Top 5” group will be able to earn 200k AP in about 6 hours, while the average player will take about 20 days.

Let me translate:

CN AP Gains so crazy! At least 2, maybe 4 of those I'm betting are my team :-)

Helps when you let one of those players have your ticks

driosketch

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

[*] Over the past 8 weeks, the average PvP player earns ~10k AP/day. This means it takes roughly 692 days of PvP for them to reach rank 10 in the skill lines.

Totally called this is what the average is two months ago.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2525433#Comment_2525433

CatchMeTrolling

driosketch wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

[*] Over the past 8 weeks, the average PvP player earns ~10k AP/day. This means it takes roughly 692 days of PvP for them to reach rank 10 in the skill lines.

Totally called this is what the average is two months ago.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2525433#Comment_2525433

I wouldn't call anyone getting 10k ap a day a pvp player lol you can get that from one keep battle, come on now

Peel_Ya_Cap_517

Thank you very much for the insight! Makes much more sense now

jcasini222ub17_ESO

Maybe in vet but its much more difficult to pull a 10k tick in nonvet. The largest tick i received nonvet was 6k, and if your thinking 'hey did everyone run off' yes, yes they did. Also lower ranks award less ap I believe. So there will be a difference in accumlation between vet and nonvet.

I had Krog in nonvet from 10 to level 43, played most nights, then had to stop to accumlate skillpoints. Literally wasnt out of Daggerfall at 43. He's now vr9 finishing silver/gold (maybe) before he healbots/meatshields again.

driosketch

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

[*] Over the past 8 weeks, the average PvP player earns ~10k AP/day. This means it takes roughly 692 days of PvP for them to reach rank 10 in the skill lines.

Totally called this is what the average is two months ago.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2525433#Comment_2525433

I wouldn't call anyone getting 10k ap a day a pvp player lol you can get that from one keep battle, come on now

You can, it doesn't mean that's what's typical.

CatchMeTrolling

jcasini222ub17_ESO wrote: »

Maybe in vet but its much more difficult to pull a 10k tick in nonvet. The largest tick i received nonvet was 6k, and if your thinking 'hey did everyone run off' yes, yes they did. Also lower ranks award less ap I believe. So there will be a difference in accumlation between vet and nonvet.

I had Krog in nonvet from 10 to level 43, played most nights, then had to stop to accumlate skillpoints. Literally wasnt out of Daggerfall at 43. He's now vr9 finishing silver/gold (maybe) before he healbots/meatshields again.

Yeah the gains are lower but in a day you're only getting 10k ap? I highly doubt that , that sounds like someone jumping on for 30mins and getting off

Enodoc

Cuyler wrote: »

Great stuff ZOS_RichLambert! This is going to bring a lot of people back to PvP. Maybe de sync the skill lines from AvA ranks though. That way hard core PvPrs like @Crown will still have their titles for achievement while the skills are more accessible to all.

@Cuyler They will be desynced from Alliance Ranks if this goes through as it is. Alliance Ranks are keeping the same progression they've always had, and if the skill ranks go through like this they will be popping up randomly throughout the first 14 ranks. What I would much prefer though is to keep the skill ranks tied to the Alliance Ranks, just unlocking them at earlier ranks, so that it's easy to say, for example, "Rank 6 unlocks at Legionary II", rather than the current proposal which says "Rank 6 unlocks somewhere in the middle of Legionary I, kinda just over half way through but not quite two thirds". Keeping the values similar to Rich's proposal, this is what I would like to see:

Enodoc wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert If these are the sort of numbers you want to go for, can't you at least line them up with Alliance Ranks?

• Rank 2 – 700 (AR 1, Volunteer I)
• Rank 3 – 8,000 (AR 3, Rrcruit I)
• Rank 4 – 48,000 (AR 5, Tyro I)
• Rank 5 – 88,000 (AR 6, Tyro II)
• Rank 6 – 224,000 (AR 8, Legionary II)
• Rank 7 – 326,400 (AR 9, Veteran I)
• Rank 8 – 456,000 (AR 10, Veteran II)
• Rank 9 – 809,600 (AR 12, Corporal II)
• Rank 10 – 1,310,400 (AR 14, Sergeant II), or 1,040,000 (AR 13, Sergeant I)

Brrrofski

BEZDNA wrote: »

i like that change, lvling ava skill line on 8 chars takes forever on live

Same here. The big thing for me will be vigor on my stamplar. It the last one of my stam builds without it. My Dk was before the healing nerf so dragonblood was fine. Stam sorc had crit heals which made it bareable. Stam nb can just cloak while I rally up.

Rally and bol suck on my stamplar though.

The passives should maybe be a bit higher. The skills should be easilly accessible though. I have 8 toons I pvp with. Not having vigor is a huge turn off. Det is crucial for big burst as well om magica builds.

There's also the fact is gives people with less pvp time a chance to het the skills. I have no problem with people getting those skills easier.

Plus not everyone plays on big groups. 670k ap is a lot for a casual who play with a friend or two. Big groups bore me. Yet sometimes I have to so I can earn some decent ap.

Sanct16

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

[*] Over the past 8 weeks, the average PvP player earns ~10k AP/day. This means it takes roughly 692 days of PvP for them to reach rank 10 in the skill lines.

Totally called this is what the average is two months ago.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2525433#Comment_2525433

I wouldn't call anyone getting 10k ap a day a pvp player lol you can get that from one keep battle, come on now

Well an average player without a guildgroup won't make much AP. And thats the majority of players.

jcasini222ub17_ESO

@CatchMeTrolling ya no not a day lol

Jura23

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

[*] Over the past 8 weeks, the average PvP player earns ~10k AP/day. This means it takes roughly 692 days of PvP for them to reach rank 10 in the skill lines.

Totally called this is what the average is two months ago.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2525433#Comment_2525433

I wouldn't call anyone getting 10k ap a day a pvp player lol you can get that from one keep battle, come on now

At least you see what scrubs you're up against. Note that 10k per day is average, which means there is large portion of players who are doing even worse.

Jaronking

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Some quick notes as to why we’re making the changes to the AP required for the Assault/Support skill lines:

• The top 5 AP earners worldwide, over the past 8 weeks are averaging 32k AP/hour. This means it takes roughly 212 hours of PvP to reach rank 10 in the skill lines for them.
• Over the past 8 weeks, the average PvP player earns ~10k AP/day. This means it takes roughly 692 days of PvP for them to reach rank 10 in the skill lines.

We want these skill lines to be a lot more accessible than what I noted above. We made some changes to how AP is awarded and that will help some, but it’s not enough - we need to reduce the amount of AP required as well. That being said, the numbers that are currently on PTS are too low and will be updated in next week’s PTS build. The new numbers will be:

• Rank 2 – 700
• Rank 3 – 8,000
• Rank 4 – 38,000
• Rank 5 – 98,000
• Rank 6 – 188,000
• Rank 7 – 308,000
• Rank 8 – 488,000
• Rank 9 – 758,000
• Rank 10 – 1,158,000

(Note: this is the cumulative AP, so to reach rank 10 you need to earn 1,158,000 AP)

With these changes the “Top 5” group will be able to unlock all AvA skills in roughly 36 hours, while the average player will take roughly 116 days. It’s still a long haul effort for the average player, but it’s at least in the realm of possible for them now.

Also, while I’m on the topic of AP earning, we used this same data to help set the AP cost for the items that Adhazabi Aba-daro sells. (Cyrodiil rare item merchant) The “Top 5” group will be able to earn 200k AP in about 6 hours, while the average player will take about 20 days.

I have to ask is this only PC players or Consoles players as well?If Consoles players are added to this value than that's why it's so low most consoles players really don't know how to make AP.So the numbers are screwed and unreliable here.Personally am still under the view that this list is way to low and needs to be adjusted.

CatchMeTrolling

Sanct16 wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

[*] Over the past 8 weeks, the average PvP player earns ~10k AP/day. This means it takes roughly 692 days of PvP for them to reach rank 10 in the skill lines.

Totally called this is what the average is two months ago.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2525433#Comment_2525433

I wouldn't call anyone getting 10k ap a day a pvp player lol you can get that from one keep battle, come on now

Well an average player without a guildgroup won't make much AP. And thats the majority of players.

I would be completely baffled if someone couldn't make 10k ap in a day is what I'm saying. I know not everyone is good at getting ap, though every emp push I did was solo & I know a few other people that do the same thing.

I don't think it's about the number of people with you, it's still more so learning the best ways to get ap and what campaigns to play in. You can run in a 24 man group everyday but have that one guy owning you in ap gains every campaign.

Jaronking

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

[*] Over the past 8 weeks, the average PvP player earns ~10k AP/day. This means it takes roughly 692 days of PvP for them to reach rank 10 in the skill lines.

Totally called this is what the average is two months ago.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2525433#Comment_2525433

I wouldn't call anyone getting 10k ap a day a pvp player lol you can get that from one keep battle, come on now

Man I have to agree with you on this if you only making 10k ap in a day your doing something completely wrong.If your only making 10K AP a hour your doing something completely wrong.I have to say their data has to be completely tainted with PVErs and consoles players who didn't know what they were doing.This just doesn't seem even close to right.

driosketch

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

[*] Over the past 8 weeks, the average PvP player earns ~10k AP/day. This means it takes roughly 692 days of PvP for them to reach rank 10 in the skill lines.

Totally called this is what the average is two months ago.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2525433#Comment_2525433

I wouldn't call anyone getting 10k ap a day a pvp player lol you can get that from one keep battle, come on now

Well an average player without a guildgroup won't make much AP. And thats the majority of players.

I would be completely baffled if someone couldn't make 10k ap in a day is what I'm saying. I know not everyone is good at getting ap, though every emp push I did was solo & I know a few other people that do the same thing.

I don't think it's about the number of people with you, it's still more so learning the best ways to get ap and what campaigns to play in. You can run in a 24 man group everyday but have that one guy owning you in ap gains every campaign.

It's an average. Average player maybe doesn't pvp every day. Average player probably dies alot and needs to waste time traveling. A lot might not join a group but still follow the zerg around and get 9 AP off a kill. Many might not know about d-ticks, have resorces for wall repairs or rezs, or might not even know about the bounty quests. A player like this is lucky to make 5k an hour. And maybe, there are alot of these players out there.

CatchMeTrolling

driosketch wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

[*] Over the past 8 weeks, the average PvP player earns ~10k AP/day. This means it takes roughly 692 days of PvP for them to reach rank 10 in the skill lines.

Totally called this is what the average is two months ago.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2525433#Comment_2525433

I wouldn't call anyone getting 10k ap a day a pvp player lol you can get that from one keep battle, come on now

Well an average player without a guildgroup won't make much AP. And thats the majority of players.

I would be completely baffled if someone couldn't make 10k ap in a day is what I'm saying. I know not everyone is good at getting ap, though every emp push I did was solo & I know a few other people that do the same thing.

I don't think it's about the number of people with you, it's still more so learning the best ways to get ap and what campaigns to play in. You can run in a 24 man group everyday but have that one guy owning you in ap gains every campaign.

It's an average. Average player maybe doesn't pvp every day. Average player probably dies alot and needs to waste time traveling. A lot might not join a group but still follow the zerg around and get 9 AP off a kill. Many might not know about d-ticks, have resorces for wall repairs or rezs, or might not even know about the bounty quests. A player like this is lucky to make 5k an hour. And maybe, there are alot of these players out there.

They said average pvp player , that's different than saying average player, that's like adding me to the results of a pve survey which I rarely play. But my point still stands, I refuse to believe anyone is getting 10k in a day. You can't really consider those numbers when making significant changes, that doesn't sound like a PVP player or someone that plays pvp for over an hr.

This change really seems like it was made because of the pve players that rarely play pvp but want pvp skills lol

zyk

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Some quick notes as to why we’re making the changes to the AP required for the Assault/Support skill lines:

• The top 5 AP earners worldwide, over the past 8 weeks are averaging 32k AP/hour. This means it takes roughly 212 hours of PvP to reach rank 10 in the skill lines for them.
• Over the past 8 weeks, the average PvP player earns ~10k AP/day. This means it takes roughly 692 days of PvP for them to reach rank 10 in the skill lines.

@ZOS_RichLambert

I suspect the methodology behind these numbers is flawed. I bet it includes players in IC and Cyrodiil for PVE purposes. One can earn more than 10K in a couple of hours simply by showing up for keep defenses and contributing nothing.

You should balance PVP based on statistics from players who play regularly and actually PVP. There is no way it takes a player interested and actively engaged in PVP almost two years to reach rank 10.

Sigh.

driosketch

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

[*] Over the past 8 weeks, the average PvP player earns ~10k AP/day. This means it takes roughly 692 days of PvP for them to reach rank 10 in the skill lines.

Totally called this is what the average is two months ago.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2525433#Comment_2525433

I wouldn't call anyone getting 10k ap a day a pvp player lol you can get that from one keep battle, come on now

Well an average player without a guildgroup won't make much AP. And thats the majority of players.

I would be completely baffled if someone couldn't make 10k ap in a day is what I'm saying. I know not everyone is good at getting ap, though every emp push I did was solo & I know a few other people that do the same thing.

I don't think it's about the number of people with you, it's still more so learning the best ways to get ap and what campaigns to play in. You can run in a 24 man group everyday but have that one guy owning you in ap gains every campaign.

It's an average. Average player maybe doesn't pvp every day. Average player probably dies alot and needs to waste time traveling. A lot might not join a group but still follow the zerg around and get 9 AP off a kill. Many might not know about d-ticks, have resorces for wall repairs or rezs, or might not even know about the bounty quests. A player like this is lucky to make 5k an hour. And maybe, there are alot of these players out there.

They said average pvp player , that's different than saying average player, that's like adding me to the results of a pve survey which I rarely play. But my point still stands, I refuse to believe anyone is getting 10k in a day. You can't really consider those numbers when making significant changes, that doesn't sound like a PVP player or someone that plays pvp for over an hr.

This change really seems like it was made because of the pve players that rarely play pvp but want pvp skills lol

You're basically into a "no true Scotsman" fallacy here. "No true PvPer would make less than 10k AP a day because true PvPers make more than that." I mayself am barely up to 20k a day on average, it is not out of the relm of possibilities.

CatchMeTrolling

driosketch wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

[*] Over the past 8 weeks, the average PvP player earns ~10k AP/day. This means it takes roughly 692 days of PvP for them to reach rank 10 in the skill lines.

Totally called this is what the average is two months ago.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2525433#Comment_2525433

I wouldn't call anyone getting 10k ap a day a pvp player lol you can get that from one keep battle, come on now

Well an average player without a guildgroup won't make much AP. And thats the majority of players.

I would be completely baffled if someone couldn't make 10k ap in a day is what I'm saying. I know not everyone is good at getting ap, though every emp push I did was solo & I know a few other people that do the same thing.

I don't think it's about the number of people with you, it's still more so learning the best ways to get ap and what campaigns to play in. You can run in a 24 man group everyday but have that one guy owning you in ap gains every campaign.

It's an average. Average player maybe doesn't pvp every day. Average player probably dies alot and needs to waste time traveling. A lot might not join a group but still follow the zerg around and get 9 AP off a kill. Many might not know about d-ticks, have resorces for wall repairs or rezs, or might not even know about the bounty quests. A player like this is lucky to make 5k an hour. And maybe, there are alot of these players out there.

They said average pvp player , that's different than saying average player, that's like adding me to the results of a pve survey which I rarely play. But my point still stands, I refuse to believe anyone is getting 10k in a day. You can't really consider those numbers when making significant changes, that doesn't sound like a PVP player or someone that plays pvp for over an hr.

This change really seems like it was made because of the pve players that rarely play pvp but want pvp skills lol

You're basically into a "no true Scotsman" fallacy here. "No true PvPer would make less than 10k AP a day because true PvPers make more than that." I mayself am barely up to 20k a day on average, it is not out of the relm of possibilities.

You're not going to sit here and convince me you're making 10k or 20k ap a day seriously playing or casually playing. How long do you play an hr?

driosketch

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

[*] Over the past 8 weeks, the average PvP player earns ~10k AP/day. This means it takes roughly 692 days of PvP for them to reach rank 10 in the skill lines.

Totally called this is what the average is two months ago.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2525433#Comment_2525433

I wouldn't call anyone getting 10k ap a day a pvp player lol you can get that from one keep battle, come on now

Well an average player without a guildgroup won't make much AP. And thats the majority of players.

I would be completely baffled if someone couldn't make 10k ap in a day is what I'm saying. I know not everyone is good at getting ap, though every emp push I did was solo & I know a few other people that do the same thing.

I don't think it's about the number of people with you, it's still more so learning the best ways to get ap and what campaigns to play in. You can run in a 24 man group everyday but have that one guy owning you in ap gains every campaign.

It's an average. Average player maybe doesn't pvp every day. Average player probably dies alot and needs to waste time traveling. A lot might not join a group but still follow the zerg around and get 9 AP off a kill. Many might not know about d-ticks, have resorces for wall repairs or rezs, or might not even know about the bounty quests. A player like this is lucky to make 5k an hour. And maybe, there are alot of these players out there.

They said average pvp player , that's different than saying average player, that's like adding me to the results of a pve survey which I rarely play. But my point still stands, I refuse to believe anyone is getting 10k in a day. You can't really consider those numbers when making significant changes, that doesn't sound like a PVP player or someone that plays pvp for over an hr.

This change really seems like it was made because of the pve players that rarely play pvp but want pvp skills lol

You're basically into a "no true Scotsman" fallacy here. "No true PvPer would make less than 10k AP a day because true PvPers make more than that." I mayself am barely up to 20k a day on average, it is not out of the relm of possibilities.

You're not going to sit here and convince me you're making 10k or 20k ap a day seriously playing or casually playing. How long do you play an hr?

2-3 hours PvP most days, longer on my days off, but not all days. (Those 0s factor into my average by the way.) As do the final days of the last campaign when the other alliances gave up and I couldn't find any fights. Azura's Star NA PC, I had just shy of 600k AP across 4 characters last cycle. That factors out to 20k a day, does it not?

My main is VR16, been in PvP since lvl 10 on 8 characters, my main's undaunted rank is 4, and his alliance skill rank is 8. I haven't even completed the main quest, and have been playing since launch. My main has over 42 days of play time, combine with my alts, I average about 3 hours of play a day since launch.

I am regularly in the top 10% rewards at the end of a campaign. I made 100k in a week on a level 20 who fights without a weapon using punches. I can do that because I am better than most pvpers. [snip]

[Edited for baiting commentary]

SirDopey

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

[*] Rank 7 – 308,000

I'll still get proxi before lvl 20. And I still think that this is a bad idea.

Don't farm AP so hard and you'll be fine

SirDopey

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

[*] Over the past 8 weeks, the average PvP player earns ~10k AP/day. This means it takes roughly 692 days of PvP for them to reach rank 10 in the skill lines.

Totally called this is what the average is two months ago.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2525433#Comment_2525433

I wouldn't call anyone getting 10k ap a day a pvp player lol you can get that from one keep battle, come on now

The population of PVP is split between cyrodil and IC, 10K AP a day would be more than what the average person spending 3 or 4 hours in the sewers/IC is likely to be logging off with

Wollust

Accountwide alliance ranks > reduced AP/Assaultrank

CatchMeTrolling

driosketch wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

[*] Over the past 8 weeks, the average PvP player earns ~10k AP/day. This means it takes roughly 692 days of PvP for them to reach rank 10 in the skill lines.

Totally called this is what the average is two months ago.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2525433#Comment_2525433

I wouldn't call anyone getting 10k ap a day a pvp player lol you can get that from one keep battle, come on now

Well an average player without a guildgroup won't make much AP. And thats the majority of players.

I would be completely baffled if someone couldn't make 10k ap in a day is what I'm saying. I know not everyone is good at getting ap, though every emp push I did was solo & I know a few other people that do the same thing.

I don't think it's about the number of people with you, it's still more so learning the best ways to get ap and what campaigns to play in. You can run in a 24 man group everyday but have that one guy owning you in ap gains every campaign.

It's an average. Average player maybe doesn't pvp every day. Average player probably dies alot and needs to waste time traveling. A lot might not join a group but still follow the zerg around and get 9 AP off a kill. Many might not know about d-ticks, have resorces for wall repairs or rezs, or might not even know about the bounty quests. A player like this is lucky to make 5k an hour. And maybe, there are alot of these players out there.

They said average pvp player , that's different than saying average player, that's like adding me to the results of a pve survey which I rarely play. But my point still stands, I refuse to believe anyone is getting 10k in a day. You can't really consider those numbers when making significant changes, that doesn't sound like a PVP player or someone that plays pvp for over an hr.

This change really seems like it was made because of the pve players that rarely play pvp but want pvp skills lol

You're basically into a "no true Scotsman" fallacy here. "No true PvPer would make less than 10k AP a day because true PvPers make more than that." I mayself am barely up to 20k a day on average, it is not out of the relm of possibilities.

You're not going to sit here and convince me you're making 10k or 20k ap a day seriously playing or casually playing. How long do you play an hr?

2-3 hours PvP most days, longer on my days off, but not all days. (Those 0s factor into my average by the way.) As do the final days of the last campaign when the other alliances gave up and I couldn't find any fights. Azura's Star NA PC, I had just shy of 600k AP across 4 characters last cycle. That factors out to 20k a day, does it not?

My main is VR16, been in PvP since lvl 10 on 8 characters, my main's undaunted rank is 4, and his alliance skill rank is 8. I haven't even completed the main quest, and have been playing since launch. My main has over 42 days of play time, combine with my alts, I average about 3 hours of play a day since launch.

I am regularly in the top 10% rewards at the end of a campaign. I made 100k in a week on a level 20 who fights without a weapon using punches. I can do that because I am better than most pvpers.

[snip] I've played with multiple characters during a campaign and got more than that casually. Though you're just deflecting & bringing extra stuff into play, pretty sure I was talking about one character not 7 alts.

And you don't have a better idea, you have a better idea of how it is on PC na, which is a lower population than the platform I play on. If you were to join the one I play on you definitely wouldn't be in the top 10 percent with just 600k ap, I'm sure that's a 30 day as well on na PC? [snip]

Even if what you say is true between those characters you still should have more than 10k-20k ap in 3hrs, if you want to switch between alts that's on you but only making 20k ap overall is terrible.

And since ZOS didn't bring up alts I wouldn't even bring that up but even if they did through 3hrs you should have more than 20k ap. [snip]

[Edited for baiting commentary]

CatchMeTrolling

SirDopey wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

[*] Over the past 8 weeks, the average PvP player earns ~10k AP/day. This means it takes roughly 692 days of PvP for them to reach rank 10 in the skill lines.

Totally called this is what the average is two months ago.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2525433#Comment_2525433

I wouldn't call anyone getting 10k ap a day a pvp player lol you can get that from one keep battle, come on now

The population of PVP is split between cyrodil and IC, 10K AP a day would be more than what the average person spending 3 or 4 hours in the sewers/IC is likely to be logging off with

Again making significant changes based on people sitting around or playing for an hr is terrible. Why would you make changes based on people that rarely pvp or farm the imp city? I wouldn't be surprised if those numbers included people afking as well

Can we really say someone farming imp city is a pvp player & should be included in these numbers? With that logic you could include me into pve just for stepping into mournhold.

Manoekin

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Some quick notes as to why we’re making the changes to the AP required for the Assault/Support skill lines:

• The top 5 AP earners worldwide, over the past 8 weeks are averaging 32k AP/hour. This means it takes roughly 212 hours of PvP to reach rank 10 in the skill lines for them.
• Over the past 8 weeks, the average PvP player earns ~10k AP/day. This means it takes roughly 692 days of PvP for them to reach rank 10 in the skill lines.

We want these skill lines to be a lot more accessible than what I noted above. We made some changes to how AP is awarded and that will help some, but it’s not enough - we need to reduce the amount of AP required as well. That being said, the numbers that are currently on PTS are too low and will be updated in next week’s PTS build. The new numbers will be:

• Rank 2 – 700
• Rank 3 – 8,000
• Rank 4 – 38,000
• Rank 5 – 98,000
• Rank 6 – 188,000
• Rank 7 – 308,000
• Rank 8 – 488,000
• Rank 9 – 758,000
• Rank 10 – 1,158,000

(Note: this is the cumulative AP, so to reach rank 10 you need to earn 1,158,000 AP)

With these changes the “Top 5” group will be able to unlock all AvA skills in roughly 36 hours, while the average player will take roughly 116 days. It’s still a long haul effort for the average player, but it’s at least in the realm of possible for them now.

Also, while I’m on the topic of AP earning, we used this same data to help set the AP cost for the items that Adhazabi Aba-daro sells. (Cyrodiil rare item merchant) The “Top 5” group will be able to earn 200k AP in about 6 hours, while the average player will take about 20 days.

I don't think that's indicative of the average player. Your average player seems to be the person who is only doing quests, or logs in for half an hour gets 10 kills and logs out. You're rewarding people for NOT participating in PvP. I can guarantee you the top 5 AP earners worldwide are making a hell of a lot more than 32k an hour. Your calculations seem to be including time spent idle within Cyrodiil, which probably brings my lifetime AP/hour close to zero.

By the way, can we find a way to make this not retroactive before we give players like myself the undaunted skill line reputation they rightly deserve for doing the content before the skill line was expanded? I'm still sitting at rank 7 waiting for the day when players with half of my dungeon achievements aren't ahead of me.

You guys need to stop looking at numbers in ways that they don't actually matter. If these people are really only getting 10k ap in a day they simply don't want Alliance War Skill rank 10. They don't want to pvp. Next patch that's only 5 kills. Your average player isn't even playing the game at that point. If you're going to hand out free *** next time hand it out to the people actually playing. I really, really love this game and want to play it every night, but stuff like this where you all simply don't get it makes it that much harder to log in every time.

Aquanova

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Some quick notes as to why we’re making the changes to the AP required for the Assault/Support skill lines:

• The top 5 AP earners worldwide, over the past 8 weeks are averaging 32k AP/hour. This means it takes roughly 212 hours of PvP to reach rank 10 in the skill lines for them.
• Over the past 8 weeks, the average PvP player earns ~10k AP/day. This means it takes roughly 692 days of PvP for them to reach rank 10 in the skill lines.

We want these skill lines to be a lot more accessible than what I noted above. We made some changes to how AP is awarded and that will help some, but it’s not enough - we need to reduce the amount of AP required as well. That being said, the numbers that are currently on PTS are too low and will be updated in next week’s PTS build. The new numbers will be:

• Rank 2 – 700
• Rank 3 – 8,000
• Rank 4 – 38,000
• Rank 5 – 98,000
• Rank 6 – 188,000
• Rank 7 – 308,000
• Rank 8 – 488,000
• Rank 9 – 758,000
• Rank 10 – 1,158,000

(Note: this is the cumulative AP, so to reach rank 10 you need to earn 1,158,000 AP)

With these changes the “Top 5” group will be able to unlock all AvA skills in roughly 36 hours, while the average player will take roughly 116 days. It’s still a long haul effort for the average player, but it’s at least in the realm of possible for them now.

Also, while I’m on the topic of AP earning, we used this same data to help set the AP cost for the items that Adhazabi Aba-daro sells. (Cyrodiil rare item merchant) The “Top 5” group will be able to earn 200k AP in about 6 hours, while the average player will take about 20 days.

BAM!...........DROP DAT HAMMER BABY!

AllPlayAndNoWork

Sanct16 wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

[*] Over the past 8 weeks, the average PvP player earns ~10k AP/day. This means it takes roughly 692 days of PvP for them to reach rank 10 in the skill lines.

Totally called this is what the average is two months ago.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2525433#Comment_2525433

I wouldn't call anyone getting 10k ap a day a pvp player lol you can get that from one keep battle, come on now

Well an average player without a guildgroup won't make much AP. And thats the majority of players.

That's not strickly true, lately I have been soloing in PvP a lot recently and still picking up 15-20k an hour, without trying too hard either.

driosketch

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

[*] Over the past 8 weeks, the average PvP player earns ~10k AP/day. This means it takes roughly 692 days of PvP for them to reach rank 10 in the skill lines.

Totally called this is what the average is two months ago.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2525433#Comment_2525433

I wouldn't call anyone getting 10k ap a day a pvp player lol you can get that from one keep battle, come on now

Well an average player without a guildgroup won't make much AP. And thats the majority of players.

I would be completely baffled if someone couldn't make 10k ap in a day is what I'm saying. I know not everyone is good at getting ap, though every emp push I did was solo & I know a few other people that do the same thing.

I don't think it's about the number of people with you, it's still more so learning the best ways to get ap and what campaigns to play in. You can run in a 24 man group everyday but have that one guy owning you in ap gains every campaign.

It's an average. Average player maybe doesn't pvp every day. Average player probably dies alot and needs to waste time traveling. A lot might not join a group but still follow the zerg around and get 9 AP off a kill. Many might not know about d-ticks, have resorces for wall repairs or rezs, or might not even know about the bounty quests. A player like this is lucky to make 5k an hour. And maybe, there are alot of these players out there.

They said average pvp player , that's different than saying average player, that's like adding me to the results of a pve survey which I rarely play. But my point still stands, I refuse to believe anyone is getting 10k in a day. You can't really consider those numbers when making significant changes, that doesn't sound like a PVP player or someone that plays pvp for over an hr.

This change really seems like it was made because of the pve players that rarely play pvp but want pvp skills lol

You're basically into a "no true Scotsman" fallacy here. "No true PvPer would make less than 10k AP a day because true PvPers make more than that." I mayself am barely up to 20k a day on average, it is not out of the relm of possibilities.

You're not going to sit here and convince me you're making 10k or 20k ap a day seriously playing or casually playing. How long do you play an hr?

2-3 hours PvP most days, longer on my days off, but not all days. (Those 0s factor into my average by the way.) As do the final days of the last campaign when the other alliances gave up and I couldn't find any fights. Azura's Star NA PC, I had just shy of 600k AP across 4 characters last cycle. That factors out to 20k a day, does it not?

My main is VR16, been in PvP since lvl 10 on 8 characters, my main's undaunted rank is 4, and his alliance skill rank is 8. I haven't even completed the main quest, and have been playing since launch. My main has over 42 days of play time, combine with my alts, I average about 3 hours of play a day since launch.

I am regularly in the top 10% rewards at the end of a campaign. I made 100k in a week on a level 20 who fights without a weapon using punches. I can do that because I am better than most pvpers.

I've played with multiple characters during a campaign and got more than that casually. Though you're just deflecting & bringing extra stuff into play, pretty sure I was talking about one character not 7 alts.

And you don't have a better idea, you have a better idea of how it is on PC na, which is a lower population than the platform I play on. If you were to join the one I play on you definitely wouldn't be in the top 10 percent with just 600k ap, I'm sure that's a 30 day as well on na PC? [snip]

Even if what you say is true between those characters you still should have more than 10k-20k ap in 3hrs, if you want to switch between alts that's on you but only making 20k ap overall is terrible.

And since ZOS didn't bring up alts I wouldn't even bring that up but even if they did through 3hrs you should have more than 20k ap.

Not deflecting, you were assuming I don't PvP much. But you seem intent on ignoring facts that don't support your narrative.

AS is the pop-locked campaign on NA PC, you can't fit more players on a campaign no matter what platform you play. Second, it's 10%. AS NA PC leader boards have about 10,000+ characters homed there. That means the top 10% is roughly the top 1000 characters. Do you know what a larger player base translates into, more than 1000 characters in the top 10%. That means you probably need less to cross that threshold because there are more spots.

[snip] I have a challenge for you. Take two alts. Have one earn 600k, not a problem for you, I'm sure. I don't even care how you do it, get a bunch of friends to let you kill them, just as long as you hit 600,000 AP in a 30 day campaign. Take a second alt into the same campaign and do one single wall repair. Post a screen shot of the leader board positions for both a day before the end of the campaign. [snip]

[Edited for baiting comment]