Delete or completely reimagine Proxy Det

CyrusArya · February 2016

This skill needs to be removed entirely or completely reworked. I love the concept, an aoe bomb that wrecks groups of people clustered together. But in reality, proxy hits harder on single targets than most skills and even ultis sometimes, and that's just not right. Even after the changes on pts, people are easily hitting 10k plus proxy det on single targets. It's obvious why this skill is so unbalanced and over powered in dueling. But even open world, a skill that was intended to be a Zerg buster is used by zergs to mow down everything else. Plain and simple, proxy det should not do nearly as much damage on single targets as it currently does. All the other alliance war skills are utility, buffs, or heals. Why should only magicka have access to an insanely overpowered single target+aoe burst skill? On live I can entertain the 'CPs are imbalanced' argument. K. But that doesn't hold up next patch, and as such proxy det needs to be looked at for sake of balance.

The skill should do much less damage single target, like half. 5k or so single target. But then ramp up to insane numbers as more people are hit. Clearly that's the concept it was designed with, not as an all around overpowered burst skill in any damn situation. Clearly you at zenimax thought it was worth addressing. So why was there no commitment to the change? Lowering the single target damage by 15% is just not enough. 50% is more like it. For sake of both 1v1 and openworld cyrodiil pvp, and for the sake of balance, bring this overpowered skill into line.

Xeven · February 2016

Why am I not surprised that you're a DK?

With healing, resistances, dodge roll, block, reflect, and battle spirit damage mitigation through the roof, magicka builds need something to break through all of that. This is one of the only skills that can hit a dodge roller or a DK, and you want it nerfed. Of course you do.

If anything, buff it. Remove the cast time from inevitable or make it uninterruptible WB style.

Alorier · February 2016

Lol don't get rid or nerf it yet I haven't managed to get it yet to play with

MrTarkanian48 · February 2016

I agree with the OP.

I think Mag Det is a good skill to have in PVP, and will be one of the few things that breaks up groups.

But now that acquiring the skill will be much easier for everyone you will see all Magicka builds using it.

Keep the skill. But significantly lower its damage against single targets, and have it scale high against multiple targets.

Xeven · February 2016

MrTarkanian48 wrote: »

Keep the skill. But significantly lower its damage against single targets, and have it scale high against multiple targets.

Because my dodge roll spamming monkey build is immune to everything except this. I just want to be immune to everything.

[Edited to remove censor bypass]

Alorier · February 2016

It seems to me on this game if some gets done over by a skill they call for it be nerfed or deleted it gets boring

GrigorijMalahevich · February 2016

It has a 8 second timer and you can block it. It is not like someone can spam 8 second cast abilities isn't it? Inevitable detonation and proxy detonations are very easy to block against in 1vs1 encounter.

Sorry, but L2P.

frozywozy · February 2016

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/246376/proximity-detonation-damage-is-still-way-too-high-against-one-target

For all the magicka sorcs (combining their 14k dawnbreaker of smiting with 12k proximity detonation with 6k velocious curse with 5k endless fury with 9k crystal frag with 4k streak all hitting at the same time on someone with 501cps and high magic damage mitigation and stacking impen) who don't want this skill to be nerfed, here is your answer :

Proximity Detonation was designed to bust zergs, not to give you a 6th skill to burst your target down ezpz.

Xeven · February 2016

frozywozy wrote: »

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/246376/proximity-detonation-damage-is-still-way-too-high-against-one-target

For all the magicka sorcs combining their 14k dawnbreaker of smiting with 12k proximity detonation with 6k velocious curse with 5k endless fury with 9k crystal frag with 4k streak all hitting at the same time on someone with 501cps and high magic damage mitigation and stacking impen who want this skill to be nerfed, there is your answer :

Proximity Detonation was designed to bust zergs, not to give you a 6th skill to burst your target down ezpz.

Hey look another DK complaining about one of the only magic skills that can hurt him. Im seeing a pattern here.

Derra · February 2016

frozywozy wrote: »

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/246376/proximity-detonation-damage-is-still-way-too-high-against-one-target

For all the magicka sorcs combining their 14k dawnbreaker of smiting with 12k proximity detonation with 6k velocious curse with 5k endless fury with 9k crystal frag with 4k streak all hitting at the same time on someone with 501cps and high magic damage mitigation and stacking impen who want this skill to be nerfed, there is your answer :

Proximity Detonation was designed to bust zergs, not to give you a 6th skill to burst your target down ezpz.

Yeah it synergises really well with sorc burst - but do you want to take the skill away from magDK templar and NB? They need the burst. Sorcs don´t. Maybe change it in a way where it´s on the same buff as curse and you can only have one of the two active.
Would that work?

contact.opiumb16_ESO · February 2016

Xeven wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/246376/proximity-detonation-damage-is-still-way-too-high-against-one-target

For all the magicka sorcs combining their 14k dawnbreaker of smiting with 12k proximity detonation with 6k velocious curse with 5k endless fury with 9k crystal frag with 4k streak all hitting at the same time on someone with 501cps and high magic damage mitigation and stacking impen who want this skill to be nerfed, there is your answer :

Proximity Detonation was designed to bust zergs, not to give you a 6th skill to burst your target down ezpz.

Hey look another DK complaining about one of the only magic skills that can hurt him. Im seeing a pattern here.

Well... i do have a NB, a templar and a sorcerer, no DK, and i think this skill is clearely bad designed, especially when used with magicka NB or sorcerer.

Xeven · February 2016

Derra wrote: »

They need the burst. Sorcs don´t.

Yes they do. Reflect aside, dodge roll spamming shuffle monkeys are extremely hard to hit without it.

Derra · February 2016

Xeven wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

They need the burst. Sorcs don´t.

Yes they do. Reflect aside, dodge roll spamming shuffle monkeys are extremely hard to hit without it.

Depends - the new mine morph is really awesome. Ultimately someone playing completely defensive is always hard to kill. But they won´t kill you either...

contact.opiumb16_ESO · February 2016

Xeven wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

They need the burst. Sorcs don´t.

Yes they do. Reflect aside, dodge roll spamming shuffle monkeys are extremely hard to hit without it.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha !!!!!

FENGRUSH · February 2016

Xeven wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

They need the burst. Sorcs don´t.

Yes they do. Reflect aside, dodge roll spamming shuffle monkeys are extremely hard to hit without it.

Try dealing with it on stam sorc.

Jura23 · February 2016

Or lets just nerf magicka sorcs.

Derra · February 2016

Jura23 wrote: »

Or lets just nerf magicka sorcs.

We can talk about that when sorcs become as predominant as DKs were 1.2 to 1.5 and NBs in 1.6 and 1.7.

WillhelmBlack · February 2016

WB vs Proxy. Go!

frozywozy · February 2016

Derra wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/246376/proximity-detonation-damage-is-still-way-too-high-against-one-target

For all the magicka sorcs combining their 14k dawnbreaker of smiting with 12k proximity detonation with 6k velocious curse with 5k endless fury with 9k crystal frag with 4k streak all hitting at the same time on someone with 501cps and high magic damage mitigation and stacking impen who want this skill to be nerfed, there is your answer :

Proximity Detonation was designed to bust zergs, not to give you a 6th skill to burst your target down ezpz.

Yeah it synergises really well with sorc burst - but do you want to take the skill away from magDK templar and NB? They need the burst. Sorcs don´t. Maybe change it in a way where it´s on the same buff as curse and you can only have one of the two active.
Would that work?

I've watched @Sypher dueling on his magicka templar. Mtemp doesn't need 12k proximity burst to be competitive with the new meta. I've yet to see how magicka dk rolls in 1v1.

CyrusArya · February 2016

Xeven wrote: »

Why am I not surprised that you're a DK?

With healing, resistances, dodge roll, block, reflect, and battle spirit damage mitigation through the roof, magicka builds need something to break through all of that.

If anything, buff it. Remove the cast time from inevitable.

Pretty interesting to hear that coming from a Sorceror. With the new unreflectable meteors, magicka has all the burst it could ever need. That in conjunction with proxy is simply too much. One or the other has got to go. Inevitable is fine, because it can be bashed and is applied on the target, hence it's easier to deal with. Proxy as an instant pbaoe is the issue.

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

WB vs Proxy. Go!

Wrecking blow is primary dps for many builds and central to their rotations. Proxy det is something people mindlessly throw on top of their primary dps/powerful regular rotations and forget about, then boom, a free 10k hit at no expense or risk. That's the difference. You don't even have to aim it or anything. Just stand in the persons general vicinity. It promotes absolutely skill less play and allows people to get easy kills that they shouldn't be getting.

Jura23 · February 2016

How about this: add a "toggle" to that skill which cannost be changed in combat which would switch beetween 2 "modes" of the skill. One for 1-3 targets and the other for 3+ targets. And if the number of targets is other than what you selected, it would be highly ineffective. This would add risk to the use of that skill.

But based on the changes of Meteor, I don't think ZOS would actually want to do that.

Ishammael · February 2016

frozywozy wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/246376/proximity-detonation-damage-is-still-way-too-high-against-one-target

For all the magicka sorcs combining their 14k dawnbreaker of smiting with 12k proximity detonation with 6k velocious curse with 5k endless fury with 9k crystal frag with 4k streak all hitting at the same time on someone with 501cps and high magic damage mitigation and stacking impen who want this skill to be nerfed, there is your answer :

Proximity Detonation was designed to bust zergs, not to give you a 6th skill to burst your target down ezpz.

Yeah it synergises really well with sorc burst - but do you want to take the skill away from magDK templar and NB? They need the burst. Sorcs don´t. Maybe change it in a way where it´s on the same buff as curse and you can only have one of the two active.
Would that work?

I've watched @Sypher dueling on his magicka templar. Mtemp doesn't need 12k proximity burst to be competitive with the new meta. I've yet to see how magicka dk rolls in 1v1.

MagDK 1v1 is the same it has always been.
Hold block, cast your DoTs, kill them with meteor --> petrify. Pressure with talons/whip.
Literally nothing will change with the new changes except that your Burning Embers heal will be quite good.

Wreuntzylla · February 2016

CyrusArya wrote: »

Wrecking blow is primary dps for many builds and central to their rotations. Proxy det is something people mindlessly throw on top of their primary dps/powerful regular rotations and forget about, then boom, a free 10k hit at no expense or risk. That's the difference. You don't even have to aim it or anything. Just stand in the persons general vicinity. It promotes absolutely skill less play and allows people to get easy kills that they shouldn't be getting.

You do realize it goes off after 8 sec, puts a big red circle on the ground for the entire duration and you can tell when it will go off purely by the noise it makes? Avoiding prox det is about as difficult as not standing in stupid during dungeon runs.

Also, at 501 CPs and using impenetrable on my stamina toons, I have not been hit for more than 6k by a prox det in ages. The only thing that has hit me for 10k+ is overload.

Fhirn · February 2016

CyrusArya wrote: »

But even open world, a skill that was intended to be a Zerg buster is used by zergs to mow down everything else.

This. Every group fight is filled with ppl useing this skill, and with the current plans on pts, probly every magicka build will use it. Its not fun, it takes no skill whatsoever to use it and it just ruins the fun of massive groupfights when all ppl do is stack up and run at ppl useing this skill

Xjcon · February 2016

Fhirn wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

But even open world, a skill that was intended to be a Zerg buster is used by zergs to mow down everything else.

This. Every group fight is filled with ppl useing this skill, and with the current plans on pts, probly every magicka build will use it. Its not fun, it takes no skill whatsoever to use it and it just ruins the fun of massive groupfights when all ppl do is stack up and run at ppl useing this skill

Wait. Timing it so it goes off when your within range of someone isn't skill? But pressing Steel tornado is? How about pressing the key to time your WB so it hits the target?

D0ntevenL1ft · February 2016

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

Wrecking blow is primary dps for many builds and central to their rotations. Proxy det is something people mindlessly throw on top of their primary dps/powerful regular rotations and forget about, then boom, a free 10k hit at no expense or risk. That's the difference. You don't even have to aim it or anything. Just stand in the persons general vicinity. It promotes absolutely skill less play and allows people to get easy kills that they shouldn't be getting.

You do realize it goes off after 8 sec, puts a big red circle on the ground for the entire duration and you can tell when it will go off purely by the noise it makes? Avoiding prox det is about as difficult as not standing in stupid during dungeon runs.

Also, at 501 CPs and using impenetrable on my stamina toons, I have not been hit for more than 6k by a prox det in ages. The only thing that has hit me for 10k+ is overload.

This x100000

frozywozy · February 2016

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

Wrecking blow is primary dps for many builds and central to their rotations. Proxy det is something people mindlessly throw on top of their primary dps/powerful regular rotations and forget about, then boom, a free 10k hit at no expense or risk. That's the difference. You don't even have to aim it or anything. Just stand in the persons general vicinity. It promotes absolutely skill less play and allows people to get easy kills that they shouldn't be getting.

You do realize it goes off after 8 sec, puts a big red circle on the ground for the entire duration and you can tell when it will go off purely by the noise it makes? Avoiding prox det is about as difficult as not standing in stupid during dungeon runs.

Also, at 501 CPs and using impenetrable on my stamina toons, I have not been hit for more than 6k by a prox det in ages. The only thing that has hit me for 10k+ is overload.

It's exactly the fact that it goes off after 8 seconds that makes it so easy to burst someone down. The big red circle making sound is easy to spot in a 1v1 fight. It's another thing in open world PvP when a sorc can simply streak in from far away to detonate instantly on you.

Xeven · February 2016

frozywozy wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

Wrecking blow is primary dps for many builds and central to their rotations. Proxy det is something people mindlessly throw on top of their primary dps/powerful regular rotations and forget about, then boom, a free 10k hit at no expense or risk. That's the difference. You don't even have to aim it or anything. Just stand in the persons general vicinity. It promotes absolutely skill less play and allows people to get easy kills that they shouldn't be getting.

You do realize it goes off after 8 sec, puts a big red circle on the ground for the entire duration and you can tell when it will go off purely by the noise it makes? Avoiding prox det is about as difficult as not standing in stupid during dungeon runs.

Also, at 501 CPs and using impenetrable on my stamina toons, I have not been hit for more than 6k by a prox det in ages. The only thing that has hit me for 10k+ is overload.

It's exactly the fact that it goes off after 8 seconds that makes it so easy to burst someone down. The big red circle making sound is easy to spot in a 1v1 fight. It's another thing in open world PvP when a sorc can simply streak in from far away to detonate instantly on you.

So, what exactly is the problem with that?

I'll tell you what it is. You can't dodge roll or flap it away. Magicka actually has something that can hurt you.

Sallington · February 2016

Xeven wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/246376/proximity-detonation-damage-is-still-way-too-high-against-one-target

For all the magicka sorcs combining their 14k dawnbreaker of smiting with 12k proximity detonation with 6k velocious curse with 5k endless fury with 9k crystal frag with 4k streak all hitting at the same time on someone with 501cps and high magic damage mitigation and stacking impen who want this skill to be nerfed, there is your answer :

Proximity Detonation was designed to bust zergs, not to give you a 6th skill to burst your target down ezpz.

Hey look another DK complaining about one of the only magic skills that can hurt him. Im seeing a pattern here.

You don't need to be a DK to notice that a skill, which was designed to be a "zerg buster" but is currently one of the best single-target burst skills, is terribly broken.

It should be almost useless in a 1v1 situation.

frozywozy · February 2016

Xeven wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

Wrecking blow is primary dps for many builds and central to their rotations. Proxy det is something people mindlessly throw on top of their primary dps/powerful regular rotations and forget about, then boom, a free 10k hit at no expense or risk. That's the difference. You don't even have to aim it or anything. Just stand in the persons general vicinity. It promotes absolutely skill less play and allows people to get easy kills that they shouldn't be getting.

You do realize it goes off after 8 sec, puts a big red circle on the ground for the entire duration and you can tell when it will go off purely by the noise it makes? Avoiding prox det is about as difficult as not standing in stupid during dungeon runs.

Also, at 501 CPs and using impenetrable on my stamina toons, I have not been hit for more than 6k by a prox det in ages. The only thing that has hit me for 10k+ is overload.

It's exactly the fact that it goes off after 8 seconds that makes it so easy to burst someone down. The big red circle making sound is easy to spot in a 1v1 fight. It's another thing in open world PvP when a sorc can simply streak in from far away to detonate instantly on you.

So, what exactly is the problem with that?

I'll tell you what it is. You can't dodge roll or flap it away. Magicka actually has something that can hurt you.

The problem with that has been answered several times already. Go read the previous posts or bring another question or argument.

Xeven · February 2016

Sallington wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/246376/proximity-detonation-damage-is-still-way-too-high-against-one-target

For all the magicka sorcs combining their 14k dawnbreaker of smiting with 12k proximity detonation with 6k velocious curse with 5k endless fury with 9k crystal frag with 4k streak all hitting at the same time on someone with 501cps and high magic damage mitigation and stacking impen who want this skill to be nerfed, there is your answer :

Proximity Detonation was designed to bust zergs, not to give you a 6th skill to burst your target down ezpz.

Hey look another DK complaining about one of the only magic skills that can hurt him. Im seeing a pattern here.

You don't need to be a DK to notice that a skill, which was designed to be a "zerg buster" but is currently one of the best single-target burst skills, is terribly broken.

It should be almost useless in a 1v1 situation.

In the current meta, the only way to kill people is by using the best burst skills in conjunction. Wrecking Blow >> Dragon Leap >> Executioner. Ambush >> Soul Harvest >> Fear >> Surprise Attack.

"It should be almost useless 1v1" is your opinion.

It is also one of the few magicka skills that can hit dodge rollers and reflect spammers. Youll have to forgive me gentlemen but this discussion is calling for a nerf to a skill that I use often. There is nothing wrong with it, in fact it is a legitimate counter to certain playstyles. This entire thread is QQ.