Reasons not to Tank in ESO(Both Group and Solo Play), Is it not Attractive?

LegendaryNinja · February 2016

Lucky28 wrote: »

Main reason i don't play a tank is because DPS is just more versatile as opposed to tanks. the main thing that has kept me from making a tank character is the idea that i would have to re-spec my character on a regular basis, which doesn't trill me there are other things i'd rather spend my gold on.

@Lucky28 , this is a great observation, One of my main concerns it's that even though it's possible to complete as an example I will use Maelstrom Arena on every class, The build would require a total character respect, not just changing a few skills and/or mundus stones, and/or gear alone.

Legoless · February 2016

Nerf to Stam Regen While Blocking

Had to respec my main after the shield nerf and managing stam is definitely possible now, but I'm strongly considering switching to DPS. There's no reason to be a tank.

dodgehopper_ESO · February 2016

DPS wins all Day every Day

Lucky28 wrote: »

Main reason i don't play a tank is because DPS is just more versatile as opposed to tanks. the main thing that has kept me from making a tank character is the idea that i would have to re-spec my character on a regular basis, which doesn't trill me there are other things i'd rather spend my gold on.

This is a very fair and good point, and a large reason why I don't like it either.

eliisra · February 2016

DPS wins all Day every Day

You only need a tank for a few VR dungeons and trials. For 90% of this games content it's dps build flavour all the way. That's including PvP, landscape, most dungeons and Veteran Maelstrom Arena.

It's nice to have a tank as your alt. Tanks are still fun to play. But playing tank as your main, it just seems so messy having to change stuff like CP, morphs, mundus and gear all the time. Tanks also need to get 2 sets of gear, something not all players can afford.

Mivryna · February 2016

Other: Please Explain

I actually really love tanking. The main issue is that I prefer highly agile forms of tanking, likes swashbuckling or kiting with ranged attacks. In some games, such forms of tanking are built into the game mechanics. But in ESO it's almost an absolute necessity to tank by blocking with a shield. Evasion effects help a bit, but ultimately the damage is way too spiky without going fully into health and damage reduction.

It's particularly stressful on my Sorcerer, since the spillover damage from Hardened Ward is not mitigated. You could have 99.9% damage reduction, but still be killed instantly because of the Ward mechanics. So the only option for a Sorcerer is traditional heavy-armor-and-shield tanking with out using wards.

I've tried using Medium armor with Armor Master and using Immovable for high mitigation, but the short duration on the Armor Master buff makes it really difficult to keep up with, especially since many Sorc builds are already low on skill bar space to begin with.

Maybe there would be a place for alternative tanking forms if there were some Trials/Dungeons based on a high rate of small damage numbers, and one-shot attacks that are telegraphed enough for a quick response. Bosses with a lot of ranged attacks could be fun as well, especially if Light Armor's extra Spell Resistance could be a way to soak up damage.

LegendaryNinja · February 2016

Umbranox wrote: »

I actually really love tanking. The main issue is that I prefer highly agile forms of tanking, likes swashbuckling or kiting with ranged attacks. In some games, such forms of tanking are built into the game mechanics. But in ESO it's almost an absolute necessity to tank by blocking with a shield. Evasion effects help a bit, but ultimately the damage is way too spiky without going fully into health and damage reduction.

It's particularly stressful on my Sorcerer, since the spillover damage from Hardened Ward is not mitigated. You could have 99.9% damage reduction, but still be killed instantly because of the Ward mechanics. So the only option for a Sorcerer is traditional heavy-armor-and-shield tanking with out using wards.

I've tried using Medium armor with Armor Master and using Immovable for high mitigation, but the short duration on the Armor Master buff makes it really difficult to keep up with, especially since many Sorc builds are already low on skill bar space to begin with.

Maybe there would be a place for alternative tanking forms if there were some Trials/Dungeons based on a high rate of small damage numbers, and one-shot attacks that are telegraphed enough for a quick response. Bosses with a lot of ranged attacks could be fun as well, especially if Light Armor's extra Spell Resistance could be a way to soak up damage.

I tought Damage shields had no mitigation, they take raw damage. I'm I correct?

Mivryna · February 2016

Other: Please Explain

LegendaryNinja wrote: »

I tought Damage shields had no mitigation, they take raw damage. I'm I correct?

Yeah, that's the issue. I'm fine with them taking full damage, but the issue is that the spillover damage also doesn't use mitigation.

For example, let's say you have 20k health and 99.995% mitigation (impossible I know, but for sake of argument), and you have 1 point of the Ward left.

You get hit for 20,001 damage. Your ward is gone, and you take 20k spillover damage. With your mitigation, this would only be 1 damage. But because that damage spilled over from a ward, you're instantly killed.

dodgehopper_ESO · February 2016

DPS wins all Day every Day

Umbranox wrote: »

LegendaryNinja wrote: »

I tought Damage shields had no mitigation, they take raw damage. I'm I correct?

Yeah, that's the issue. I'm fine with them taking full damage, but the issue is that the spillover damage also doesn't use mitigation.

For example, let's say you have 20k health and 99.995% mitigation (impossible I know, but for sake of argument), and you have 1 point of the Ward left.

You get hit for 20,001 damage. Your ward is gone, and you take 20k spillover damage. With your mitigation, this would only be 1 damage. But because that damage spilled over from a ward, you're instantly killed.

It isn't just Sorcs with this problem either. I agree with you that this is a mistake as well.

SeventhCelestial · February 2016

DPS wins all Day every Day

There is always going to be more DPS. I love DPS myself. Taking a turn on some side characters to learn how to tank. But the thing about tanking is, it takes skill, and no offense to all other players, but to tank in PvP takes that skill that very few, myself included to not have. My guild leader is a fantastic tank. Has CHASED Proxy Det Zergs down because they couldn't take her out and knew that me and my team of DPS was coming for them. In our current server, we have a hard time facing DC Zergs, because they know who she is now, and know who her healers are and looks for them. That's where it gets difficult, cause she still needs the healer(s).

But nothing is more satisfying than having a monster of a tank on your side that will make people who say Tanks are no good in PvP eat a sock.

Kerioko · February 2016

Other: Please Explain

Considering that Temp. Alloy costs 7-10K each, the cost of a full set of v16 Heavy armor with weapons is insane. Combo that with the fact that tanks always need to carry two full sets of armor due to fight mechanics in certain dungeons requiring the tank to hold a different role(planer inhibitor, engine guardian, PVP)at different points. Add this to stuff like heavy armor being near useless and the whole stam regen thing, tanking just isn't worth it!

code65536 · February 2016

Other: Please Explain

M_TeK_9 wrote: »

Hope499 wrote: »

Everything should be fairly simple without a tank except VERY certain end game content.

WGT, Prison, Trails, VDSA

Other than that, everything should be fairly easy without a tank.

There. Fixed it for you.

Nonsense. Have you even tried vWGT without a tank? I've done that dungeon a couple hundred times by now, and I still wouldn't do that without a tank. Not with Kena whose attacks can almost 1-shot my 16K Harness Magicka; good groups will die when their tank dies on that fight. Not with those Crematorial Guards that can kill tanks if the healer's not on the ball.

Even easy vet dungeons can pose a challenge without a tank. Are they doable? Sure. But it's so much harder. Some guildies and I were 3-DPSing vet Elden a couple of weeks ago. And we wiped on a boss and came close to wiping on another. In vet Elden, of all places! After that near-wipe, I caved and put on my heavy armor to tank the last boss. Could we have done it without a tank? Most likely. But this notion that "3 DPS and a healer will make things go so much faster" is nonsense. Even with just 2 DPS, things were a nukefest--3 DPS was actually slower because, without a tank, the DPS couldn't DPS properly when they had to worry about aggro and staying alive.

That said, I often solo or two-man nonvet dungeons without a dedicated tank for the challenge. But for vet dungeons, things are not "fairly easy without a tank". Here are the fights in the other vet dungeons where having a tank would be much easier than adding another DPS:

Spindleclutch: Blood Spawn
Banished Cells: that giant fire Daedroth, and if pledge, holding three Daedroths at bay.
Fungal Grotto: chainer boss, Spawn of Mephala, Reggar (mostly because his magicka drain will mean your healer won't be able to heal much)
Darkshade: ok, you don't really need a tank here
Wayrest: final boss (I often go tankless up to that point, and then swap into tank gear for that fight)
Elden: that twilight hits surprisingly hard, the lurcher boss, and the final boss
Crypt of Hearts: you can go tankless if not going for the pledge challenge and if you're skipping Ilbegast; the 2-hander mobs can be dangerous, though
City of Ash: Ash Titan, Skoria

dodgehopper_ESO · February 2016

DPS wins all Day every Day

code65536 wrote: »

M_TeK_9 wrote: »

Hope499 wrote: »

Everything should be fairly simple without a tank except VERY certain end game content.

WGT, Prison, Trails, VDSA

Other than that, everything should be fairly easy without a tank.

There. Fixed it for you.

Nonsense. Have you even tried vWGT without a tank? I've done that dungeon a couple hundred times by now, and I still wouldn't do that without a tank. Not with Kena whose attacks can almost 1-shot my 16K Harness Magicka; good groups will die when their tank dies on that fight. Not with those Crematorial Guards that can kill tanks if the healer's not on the ball.

Even easy vet dungeons can pose a challenge without a tank. Are they doable? Sure. But it's so much harder. Some guildies and I were 3-DPSing vet Elden a couple of weeks ago. And we wiped on a boss and came close to wiping on another. In vet Elden, of all places! After that near-wipe, I caved and put on my heavy armor to tank the last boss. Could we have done it without a tank? Most likely. But this notion that "3 DPS and a healer will make things go so much faster" is nonsense. Even with just 2 DPS, things were a nukefest--3 DPS was actually slower because, without a tank, the DPS couldn't DPS properly when they had to worry about aggro and staying alive.

That said, I often solo or two-man nonvet dungeons without a dedicated tank for the challenge. But for vet dungeons, things are not "fairly easy without a tank". Here are the fights in the other vet dungeons where having a tank would be much easier than adding another DPS:
Spindleclutch: Blood Spawn

Banished Cells: that giant fire Daedroth, and if pledge, holding three Daedroths at bay.

Fungal Grotto: chainer boss, Spawn of Mephala, Reggar (mostly because his magicka drain will mean your healer won't be able to heal much)

Darkshade: ok, you don't really need a tank here

Wayrest: final boss (I often go tankless up to that point, and then swap into tank gear for that fight)

Elden: that twilight hits surprisingly hard, the lurcher boss, and the final boss

Crypt of Hearts: you can go tankless if not going for the pledge challenge and if you're skipping Ilbegast; the 2-hander mobs can be dangerous, though

City of Ash: Ash Titan, Skoria

This doesn't convince a pvp'er to go 'full tank'. The main problem is the costs incurred of switching back and forth (both time and gold). Its simply too much of a hassle in the current system. Being a Tank for dungeon runs with your chums just means you can't use that character for anything else with any efficiency.

hrothbern · February 2016

DPS wins all Day every Day

From the TG patch notes:

The Lord
Heavy Armor Focus: This ability now grants a flat amount of Physical Resistance per point spent that scales with your level, instead of granting a percentage increase to Physical Resistance.

Meaning that tanking in LA and MA is favored at the expense of HA

code65536 · February 2016

Other: Please Explain

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

This doesn't convince a pvp'er to go 'full tank'. The main problem is the costs incurred of switching back and forth (both time and gold). Its simply too much of a hassle in the current system. Being a Tank for dungeon runs with your chums just means you can't use that character for anything else with any efficiency.

What costs? Tanking is expensive only if you want it to be. I love tanking on my nightblade, so I decked her out in the best money could buy: gold crafted VR16 gear with tri-stat enchants.

But my DK can tank just fine on zero budget: all her gear is unimproved (purple) dungeon-dropped gear (Imperium, Engine Guardian, Footman jewelry, Agility Shield/Sword). And when I first tested out tanking on that character, I used purple VR15 crafted gear. Hell, I know a couple of tanks still using VR14 gear. Oh, and her attributes and CP are fully spec'ed for DPS and tanking is entirely done via gear-swap, so there's zero respec cost.

You don't need VR16. You don't need gold gear.

dodgehopper_ESO · February 2016

DPS wins all Day every Day

code65536 wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

This doesn't convince a pvp'er to go 'full tank'. The main problem is the costs incurred of switching back and forth (both time and gold). Its simply too much of a hassle in the current system. Being a Tank for dungeon runs with your chums just means you can't use that character for anything else with any efficiency.

What costs? Tanking is expensive only if you want it to be. I love tanking on my nightblade, so I decked her out in the best money could buy: gold crafted VR16 gear with tri-stat enchants.

But my DK can tank just fine on zero budget: all her gear is unimproved (purple) dungeon-dropped gear (Imperium, Engine Guardian, Footman jewelry, Agility Shield/Sword). And when I first tested out tanking on that character, I used purple VR15 crafted gear. Hell, I know a couple of tanks still using VR14 gear. Oh, and her attributes and CP are fully spec'ed for DPS and tanking is entirely done via gear-swap, so there's zero respec cost.

You don't need VR16. You don't need gold gear.

I would also argue that you're talking about the two easiest classes to tank with (pve) in the current build of the game.

couchkyle25_ESO · February 2016

Heavy Armor does not make my character more "Tanky"

hrothbern wrote: »

From the TG patch notes:

The Lord
Heavy Armor Focus: This ability now grants a flat amount of Physical Resistance per point spent that scales with your level, instead of granting a percentage increase to Physical Resistance.

Meaning that tanking in LA and MA is favored at the expense of HA

Of course it is, because ZoS thinks Tanking, and Heavy Armor in general, is just stupid.

caperon · February 2016

Lucky28 wrote: »

Main reason i don't play a tank is because DPS is just more versatile as opposed to tanks. the main thing that has kept me from making a tank character is the idea that i would have to re-spec my character on a regular basis, which doesn't thrill me, there are other things i'd rather spend my gold on.

That is a common misconception. I have a magicka DK with 64 points in magicka that can tank anything (maybe, and only maybe, could use some more health for the mantikora, but i know DK that tank that fight with 0 points in health) or swap gear, bars and mundus and be on top of the charts in any trial.

DPS and survavility CP are in different colours, so you don't need to change it for diferent roles. Only place where I change my CP is in maelstrom arena, but i've done it with my "tanking CP" too, and its only once a week to collect my reward.

The only real place that requires a respect is PVP, where I would use diferent morphs and pretty different CP, but that happens to any player that want to pve and pvp both at max efficency, dd and healers included. In my case I retired my magicka DK from pvp, althought i'm gonna come back with the new patch.

Usara · February 2016

Other: Please Explain

Even though Tanking is not my primary role (my main is a healer), I love tanking.
At first, it was to fill a gap in vet dungeons in my guild since our main tanks basically only logged in for raids.

I now have 4 tanks, one of each class, cause I love diversity

And because it's the only role that, once you know the mechanic and have the gear, is efficient everywhere without having to learn a rotation (yes, I'm lazy)

Yes DPS wins everywhere, but DDs can't do their job if they have to kite a boss/block/survive. Of course it depends of the dungeons (I have IC dungeons in mind more than Wayrest Sewers).

I'm actually glad for the no stam regen while blocking mechanic, it adds a bit of spice to tanking, since you now have to "manage" your stam (even though most of the time, it's only pot timing and use of synergy/having a templar in the team)
But even then, once you have taunt and are blocking - and manage your resources - well, there's nothing left to do but assist dps. Because that's what ESO is all about in PvE.

And that is what is missing in ESO : real tanking mechanics, and/or a real aggro system (not just a taunt and its timer)

KallistaBlackheart · February 2016

Other: Please Explain

the entire list except for the last choice sounds like "i suck and can't take the pressure of tanking"
tanking is hard, tanking is supposed to be hard. if you want a easier time dps.

Uriel_Nocturne · February 2016

DPS wins all Day every Day

I just like my DPS builds.

Magicka Sorcerer, Magicka Templar. DPS all day for me.

Bromburak · February 2016

LegendaryNinja wrote: »

Heavy Armor does not make my character more "Tanky"
I love PVP, and I feel there is no place for Tanks
Nerf to Stam Regen While Blocking
It's too hard to play as a Tank
DPS wins all Day every Day
Other: Please Explain
It takes to long until I kill stuff

Fixed this for you.

Imo most players are hybrids or Off tanks but not a real tank.
They should be honest and chose the bold option ...

Imo thats their issue in any game, misunderstanding of their role.

Btw. I love PvP and I feel there is a lot of place for tanks, because I prefer to survive while others port all day and rush back from A to B.
If i want to lead Emp ranking, of course I am not roaming on my tank because I am slower than my full DPS classes solo, but i don't care because I prefer surviving and love to hold keeps in small scale groups for a very long time.

The speed of turning keep owners is a joke in this game, because nobody is actually really defending.
They all want to leech AP as quick as possible in their noob zergs, without teamspirit or faction pride.
You don't turn our keep within minutes, when we are there, you better bring some time ...

Something most players hate, long fights to kill stuff.

They actually don't like to play "trinity" or small scale, they just want to port 100 times the day and do max dps for fast APs. No problem, Tank is just not their role ...

Autolycus · February 2016

Tanking in ESO has become too easy. They were on the right track when SO first came out. Ideally, they will be back on track with the release of TG and the new trial. The current state of tanking can be summarized with just a few points:

1. Mitigation hard caps are too low
2. Reaching the mitigation caps is unnecessary due to under-powered enemies
3. Healing potential far exceeds the necessity for heals
4. High damage capabilities allows for skipping of mechanics

I'm sure this list is not all-inclusive, but imho it summarizes the main issues.

As far as PvP is concerned, tanks are more rare due simply to the fact that very few tank builds have the ability to manage resources and deal out enough damage to win a fight. The only real use for a tank in PvP right now is zergbusting.

LegendaryNinja · February 2016

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

M_TeK_9 wrote: »

Hope499 wrote: »

Everything should be fairly simple without a tank except VERY certain end game content.

WGT, Prison, Trails, VDSA

Other than that, everything should be fairly easy without a tank.

There. Fixed it for you.

Nonsense. Have you even tried vWGT without a tank? I've done that dungeon a couple hundred times by now, and I still wouldn't do that without a tank. Not with Kena whose attacks can almost 1-shot my 16K Harness Magicka; good groups will die when their tank dies on that fight. Not with those Crematorial Guards that can kill tanks if the healer's not on the ball.

Even easy vet dungeons can pose a challenge without a tank. Are they doable? Sure. But it's so much harder. Some guildies and I were 3-DPSing vet Elden a couple of weeks ago. And we wiped on a boss and came close to wiping on another. In vet Elden, of all places! After that near-wipe, I caved and put on my heavy armor to tank the last boss. Could we have done it without a tank? Most likely. But this notion that "3 DPS and a healer will make things go so much faster" is nonsense. Even with just 2 DPS, things were a nukefest--3 DPS was actually slower because, without a tank, the DPS couldn't DPS properly when they had to worry about aggro and staying alive.

That said, I often solo or two-man nonvet dungeons without a dedicated tank for the challenge. But for vet dungeons, things are not "fairly easy without a tank". Here are the fights in the other vet dungeons where having a tank would be much easier than adding another DPS:
Spindleclutch: Blood Spawn

Banished Cells: that giant fire Daedroth, and if pledge, holding three Daedroths at bay.

Fungal Grotto: chainer boss, Spawn of Mephala, Reggar (mostly because his magicka drain will mean your healer won't be able to heal much)

Darkshade: ok, you don't really need a tank here

Wayrest: final boss (I often go tankless up to that point, and then swap into tank gear for that fight)

Elden: that twilight hits surprisingly hard, the lurcher boss, and the final boss

Crypt of Hearts: you can go tankless if not going for the pledge challenge and if you're skipping Ilbegast; the 2-hander mobs can be dangerous, though

City of Ash: Ash Titan, Skoria

This doesn't convince a pvp'er to go 'full tank'. The main problem is the costs incurred of switching back and forth (both time and gold). Its simply too much of a hassle in the current system. Being a Tank for dungeon runs with your chums just means you can't use that character for anything else with any efficiency.

@dodgehopper_ESO Thanks for your detailed observation

LegendaryNinja · February 2016

Bromburak wrote: »

LegendaryNinja wrote: »

Heavy Armor does not make my character more "Tanky"
I love PVP, and I feel there is no place for Tanks
Nerf to Stam Regen While Blocking
It's too hard to play as a Tank
DPS wins all Day every Day
Other: Please Explain
It takes to long until I kill stuff

Fixed this for you.

Imo most players are hybrids or Off tanks but not a real tank.
They should be honest and chose the bold option ...

Imo thats their issue in any game, misunderstanding of their role.

Btw. I love PvP and I feel there is a lot of place for tanks, because I prefer to survive while others port all day and rush back from A to B.
If i want to lead Emp ranking, of course I am not roaming on my tank because I am slower than my full DPS classes solo, but i don't care because I prefer surviving and love to hold keeps in small scale groups for a very long time.

The speed of turning keep owners is a joke in this game, because nobody is actually really defending.
They all want to leech AP as quick as possible in their noob zergs, without teamspirit or faction pride.
You don't turn our keep within minutes, when we are there, you better bring some time ...

Something most players hate, long fights to kill stuff.

They actually don't like to play "trinity" or small scale, they just want to port 100 times the day and do max dps for fast APs. No problem, Tank is just not their role ...

Good information

Mr.Hmm · February 2016

Heavy Armor does not make my character more "Tanky"

Fix heavy armor then we can talk about tanking.

kirk_lewis_ESO · February 2016

Increase damage mitigation while wearing heavy armor, add dps ability that applies taunt that uses stamina. The game has health regen dps abilities that heals and uses magicka so you dps the boss while taunting with stam, self heal on magicka and you still get in damage. It's simple but they don't favor tanks.

Solid_Metal · February 2016

Heavy Armor does not make my character more "Tanky"

i LOVE tanking, i be tank myself since the first time i played RO, i like being the defender, the controller of the raid, but tanking in this game honestly really sucks.

i got 5 char, 3 of them are dedicated tank, the biggest problem i can see nowadays is the stamina regen nerf while blocking, it sucks, and also theres no dedicated taunt AoE for 1h&S skill line, like WTF

xellink · February 2016

As a tank a lot of players expect you to know the mechanics and lead, which is the fun part, but some people just like to do DPS. A tank opens up more opportunities to newer players who do not generate enough DPS to overcome boss mechanics.

For example:

Against Gamyne Bandu (bane of all PUGs in vet FG), when using the GF and you are stuck with only V1-V2s with hybrid builds and non-max equipment, using the revive method (because your team can't kill the shadows in time) requires a tank to mitigate damage, also it is possible to block damage from tether while the others split up.

Against Valkyn Skoria (COA final boss), tank placement of the fire AOE on the ground is key to keeping members alive.

Against Hovantud the Fire Maw (COA). Placement of stomp and fire breath is critical to keeping party members alive.

Too many scenarios where tanking is crucial.

sneakymitchell · February 2016

Nerf to Stam Regen While Blocking

I try to tank and DPS.

Class DK.

I have 20000 stamina with 30000 health with food from orsinium.

2200 health recovery around that. 1400 to 1600 stamina recovery.

around 1500 to 1900 weapon damage.

I also wear heavy armor and I'm A Nord too.

I mix match with different necklace and rings for the enchantments. I wear endurance set rings and necklace.

I used orgrium set (one hand and shield tank) with morkulidin ( Dual wield DPS) .

I am werewolf of course.

mistermutiny89 · April 2016

DPS wins all Day every Day

I've finally started tanking, hell, I made an imperial vr 16 dk just to tank however I find dk abilities way too expensive and resources were just too difficult to keep up in pug groups.

So I moved the tanking gear on to my stamblade and made him a sap tank... It's great, I can do more dps thanks to cheap abilities and siphoning plus off heal...

Sadly though there seems to be quite a few bosses that are untauntable... And then you have planar whatsumacalled that requires me to take off my gear and change to competitive dps.

What was the point of making all this gold gear? Very disappointing.