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Stamina Templar Balancing Thread
Zinaroth
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Disclaimer: This thread is aimed at Zenimax Online Studios and the developers in charge of class balancing. It will be focusing on the templar class with priority on stamina orientated builds, as those are currently suffering a lot. The thread will be very long, so please take your time reading it before responding to anything. I do not mean to neglect magicka orientated builds, but with the recent patch notes they seem like they will do just fine, I am however worried about how there wasn't a single change aimed specifically at stamina templars. I will try to adress this without hurting magicka templars. The thread will consist of three segments. In the first segment I will tag all the knowledgeable EU players I know play or know about staminat emplars to have them chime in, since this post was very much a collaberation where I also asked some of them for advice. I will also tag ZOS employees, and I will lay out my idea of what stamina templars should be capable of. In the second segment I will go through the patch note changes for templars one by one and comment on them. In the third segment I will summarize the good, the bad, and what wasn't touched on in the patch notes. In the fourth and last segment I will make my conclusion of what needs to happen further with the templar class in order for stamina templars to truely be good combatants on the play field in both PvE and PvP. Thank you for taking your time to read this thread and I hope if you're a fellow stamina player you will chime in and that if you're a ZOS employee you will atleast aknowledge the existance of this thread. Happy reading!
This a call to arms my fellow stamina templar brethren, now is our chance to sieze the opportunity and tell Zenimax what needs to happen with the stamina templars, and that it needs to happen before PTS is over! @Alcast @Mumyo @Husan @Morathras @Soris @BlackEar @Springt-Über-Zwerge @Joy_Division @AfkNinja @Cinbri @Jura23 @dodgehopper_ESO @SemiD4rkness @BalticBlues @AOECAPS @Essiaga
I also hope you developers and community managers chime in or at the very least aknowledge this thread, depending on who is the appropriate person for this entire thing! @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_KaiSchober @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_BrianWheeler @Wrobel
The Stamina Templar - an ideology
For me I have always imagined my Templar as a paladin or crusader, a heavy front line warrior able to stand his ground and smite his enemies with holy light and fire while providing buffs to his fellow team mates. A holy variation of the DK more focused on buffing himself and his allies where the DK is more focusing on debuffing his enemies. The templar should not be a hit and run class, it should be a class that can somewhat stand his ground, while still being mobile, like the DK. He fights and dies with his sword in the hand. In order to be able to achieve this, there are several things that needs to happen in this game, with the templar balancing, and this is what I will try to adress in the next part, hope you're with me this far.
Before the PTS patch notes hit it was appearent that Templars, both magicka and stamina, have been suffering from DPS in competetive PvE that couldn't match with the other classes. This might not be very appearent in a normal dungeon run, but for us hardcore trialists, it is.
Templars have been suffering under bad passives, especially when it comes to rescource management, an in detail comparison will appear later in this thread.
Templars have suffered from bad survivability outside spamming heals, something that wasn't even a thing for Stamina Templars. The stamina version of the class that was supposed to be THE healing class had the worst self healing in the game, this was a major issue.
Templars had a lot of bugs, especially for Stamina Templars the bug that made Burning Light not proc on shields has made PvP very tough for us against Magicka NBs and Magicka Sorc.
We have suffered from mobility issues, but only as a side effect of not being able to stand our ground.
Furthermore stamina templars have suffered from a bad option of class abilities; typically in PvP a Stamplar would use Biting Jabs, Purifying Ritual and Restoring Focus. In PvE Repentance would be worth slotting aswell because there were a lot of dead bodies, but not in PvP. Then there's Piercing Javeling, which until now has been really questionable in its usage since Biting Jabs would hand out free CC immunity aswell.
Dawns Wrath was a completely useless skill tree with the exception for the 4% reduced cost passive, likewise the Restoring Light tree had three abilities worth using but none of the passives were worth slotting.
Furthermore none of the ultimates were really worth using. Nova had its uses as a zerg busting ultimate, but that was about it, you'd be better off with Meteor in all aspects of PvE. The Rite of Passage healing ultimate is completely and utterly useless, sure it works as a panic button but so does Breath of Life, only people lacking knowledge would use this in any content, and then there's the Radial Sweep ulti whos damage and range is so bad that it is rendered useless aswell, often replaced with Dawnbreaker.
So there we have it; stamina templars were in disarray, benefiting from 3-4 class abilities and the same amount of passives, with none of their ultis working, no proper movement, CC, or utility, nothing that was worth spending magicka on, with sub-par DPS in PvE and bad rescource management and survival, and the worst self healing in the game and an armor buff that lasted only 8 seconds since noone could stand still in a rune in PvP with a 5 m diameter.
Before the patch notes hit I made a over over in the General Section of the forums called "What will happen to Templars with the patch? Place your bets!":
forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/244923/what-will-happen-to-templars-with-the-patch-place-your-bets/p1
This thread clearly shows the frustration the templar community and especially the stamina templar community was in.
But while the verdict on the patch notes have been hard over there I don't agree that it was all bad, there were a lot of good changes aswell, so let's get into the patch notes...
Thieves' Guild Templar Patch Notes
Good for the enemy I guess. I would have preferred to see a change to this ability that would also benefit the Templar himself. Currently this ability has two purposes; spam it on several mobs as a means to do AoE damage as a magicka templar or to feed stamina to your group members. This ability currently holds no position in the arsenal of a stamina templar unless you play along another stamina player, in which case it will most likely be foregone for something else anyway. Have you considered granting the stamina return to both the guy who uses the synergy and the templar himself if he is stood within range of the synergy activation when it gets used? You would still need someone to synergise and it would benefit the templar himself aswell. This could be deemed overpowered but then the stamina return could be scaled down. Just trying to advocate a buff here that would move templars more towards sustainability for himself aswell rather than just being a buff and heal bot.
I have not tested this myself but according to what I have seen and read this still has a major global cooldown, doesn't really touch stamina templars much so I won't go into too much detail with it here.
Alright, good change in accordance with the ranged buff the other class CCs got. Still, as a stamina templar this is the only hard CC we get inside the class trees, whereas DKs have a really good arrange of CC abilities available, same with NBs and Sorcs. But a good change nevertheless, would however love to have some kind of AoE CC given to us, doesn't have to be hard CC either.
This has been a year under way and it is a very nice chance, I very much applaud this. We will now be able to hit more with this ability and make it viable in PvP again. I would very much have loved to see the snare proc on the first hit instead of the last hit though. I am surprised to see we didn't get the damage bonus back to 170% again as it was before 1.6. Currently it's at 140% and a main damage ability of both stamina and magicka templars in PvE. Templars are struggling a bit with the DPS as mentioned earlier so I think raising the damage on main target to 170% additional damage would be fair. This would amount to around a 10% increase of damage with this ability, so it is not like it would be a major buff in PvP either, but would help us catch up a bit in PvE.
This is not enough. It will still be impossible to hit with, the range needs to be 8 or 9 meters if not more. Furthermore, the damage on this ability sucks! I know it has a defensive buff morph aswell, but it is simply not enough. You need to go tweak some more numbers on this one, it needs to be a viable alternative to Flawless Dawnbreaker, if not better since it is a class ultimate. It needs to do the same amount of damage or more, and please, make it physical damage.
Once again another lackluster change, what is this going to achieve? It will still be useless in PvP and in PvE it will be nothing more but an unwanted gimmicky survivability skill when fighting many opponents, in which case you're still better off healing yourself or killing stuff fast. You need to go back to the drawing board... Maybe it is a bad idea have Battle Fatigue affect abilities that scale off % health, just like Dragon Blood for the DK? This will simply not cut it.
So it stores damage slower but hits harder in the end or what? Not sure what this means, but I don't see anything in here that makes this ability worth using or even slotting again. Not for burst in PvP and not for DPS in PvE. Back to the drawing board. Maybe replace this ability with an AoE CC? Bring back a changed version of Blinding Flashes? Templars needs this a lot.
This ability will be just as useless before aslong as it can be CC broken, even if the damage still happens. It needs to get the DK treathment; meaning it needs to be a self buff instead of something applied to target. Now I am totally onboard with class diversity, and not giving all classes the same tools. But part of the reason DKs can survive a lot in PvP and stand their ground is because of their Dragon Scales reflect; giving templars something simular would not be a bad idea.
I propose changing this to a self buff that absorbs 4 projectiles instead of reflecting them like the DK. Upon absorbing the fourth projectile the templar will explode in a holy nova in a 10m radius dealing damage to targets within range in accordance to 30% of the projectile damage absorbed and healing friendlies for the same amount. This would go great in line with what the templar is and if it is a bit too strong or weak the number could be tweaked. Anyway this is just a suggestion I am sure someone else could brain storm something cooler, but it is tools like this that we stamina templars need. Something worth spending magicka on over and over again and that helps us survive outnumbered fights.
So what you're basically saying is that Radiant Oppression/Radiant Glory are just afterthoughts and instead of changing this passive into something benefitting all abilities you're just removing it? How about making it reduce the channel time but remaining the same amount of ticks? Also; in an effort to make stamina templars more viable how about we get a stamina morph of this? Would certainly give us more tools at our disposal.
These are all good changes but I don't see them making Nova worth more than it already is. We will still require another target for the full potential of this ability (an recurring theme throughout the templar class; relying on other people to reach full potential and bad synergy with yourself), and I don't see it takeing over Meteor's position. So it remains a zerg buster ability, fair enough.
Good good, as mentioned above, a stamina morph would be nice.
Why buff Dark Flare but not change Solar Barrage? Solar Barrage is so bad it was never used, atleast some people used Dark Flare for the healing debuff. You need to rethink this change and most like buff Solar Barrage or make it into something else so it is worth using. Now Dark Flare will be more viable for damage, cool, but Solar Barrage will still remain unused for everyone.
So it is basically a timed bomb when placed on the enemy? Interesting. Still currently on my DPS geared magicka templar it does 4500 damage, with this patch it will be 6750 damage, and then cut that in half for PvP. It isn't a lot of damage. I think you could've easily given it a 100% increase in damage. Also as I said above, this entire skills needs rework to buff yourself instead. But one morph could be a self reflect/absorb and the other this one, when you increase its damage.
Interesting, might make it worth using in a DPS rotation. Doubt it, but we will see. Would you consider making the other morph stamina based? Gives stamina templars a decent class based DoT effect.
For many people this is a big no-go but I actually think it is a good change. I have long advocated for tuning down templars as healers to make room for other classes as healers, and in return boosting our self-sustainability. I see what you're trying to achieve here and I agree with the sentiment. But we're not quite there for stamina templars atleast, eventhough this change didn't affects us at all.
Too bad I can't purify incoming Meteors anymore but I understand the change.
Finally! It never made much sense that Stamina DKs had more self healing through their own Major Mending buff, when templars were supposed to be the class with the best self healing available. Very good change! One thing though; I think it should give you Major Mending aslong as you're AFFECTED by Cleansing Ritual or Rune Focus, reason for the different wording will appear below under the Focus changes.
This ability will still be useless. We don't really need this in our arsenal anyway, Healing Springs from Restoration Staff will always be a better option. Back to the drawing board, maybe give us some proper self buff or AoE CC tool instead?
We still get Major Intellect from potions aswell and seeing as this won't stack it will still be just as useless as before. Back to the drawing board!
Yeah, like... Are you kidding me? Most useless ultimate in the game and this is all you had for it? Only unknowledgeable players will ever slot this ultimate. It needs to change! I understand you want it to be some kind of healing or survivability, fair enough. How about changing it to healing yourself and targets around you and granting you all some rescources back, including yourself? This way it could become a sustain ultimate. Or it could be like a protective bubble making you immunte to all harmful effects for 5 seconds and granting rescources back? Something else than just a healing panic button. Breath of Life spam is currently more effective than this.
Added bonus is always nice, not sure it was that needed but we will take it!
Now here comes the biggest problem; mobility.
Rune Focus is now a really really nice self buff; we get Major Ward, Major Resolve, Major Mending and Minor Protection along with either Minor Mending or magicka return depending on the morph.
One big issue though; we have to stay within the run!
Now this is not a problem in PvE, but in PvP we have to move around! We are now the only class without a mobility tool or a speed buff, since you just granted DKs Major Expidition on a Chain morph. That is okay, but you cannot force us to, on top of that, stand still in a rune. Sure the buff sticks for 8 seconds when we leave and the Major Mending for 4 seconds, but this is not good enough! Noone uses this in their main bar, that means we need to weapon swap every 5-6 seconds to reapply it or move back into the rune to reapply the effect. I understand you don't want the templars to be a class that is all over the place like NBs and Sorc, but you're forcing us to stay put or be very stationary! NBs get their armor buffs passively when using their main damage ability, DKs get a 20 second duration with secondary effects, and so do Sorcs!
For the love of everything Tamrielic ZOS, allow this self buff to stick ON us for 20 seconds aswell along with the self buffs that follow with them. It is a much needed change and compared to all the cool utility and self buffs via passives the other classes are getting this is an absolute must!
This is my single biggest concern right now, make it viable for us to move around!
Remove the requirement of standing inside a small ground placed circle, allow it to become a true self buff that sticks to our characters, thank you!
The good:
- Snare on Puncturing Strikes instead granting target free CC immunity
- Major Mending through our Purify and Rune
- Bug fixes with some major abilities that didn't affect stamina templars though
- Minor buffs like Minor Protection on Rune etc, nothing big though but still nice
The bad:
- Class ultimates need a second looks; especially the ones in the Aedric Spear and Restoring Light skill trees are still not up to scratch
- Eclipse needs a second look; it will still not be worth using in PvP simply because it can just be CC broken, give it the DK treatment
- Sun Shield will still be worthless, it needs to possible not be hit by Battle Fatigue
- No changes aimed particularly at making stamina more viable; would like to see more stamina morphs
What wasn't touched upon:
- Burning Light; hidden CD and lack of procs on shields and damage type
In this thread on page 5 at the bottom: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/234362/templar-issues-thread/p5
Gina posts the following: "Burning Light – The proc chance appears to be lower than 25% •There’s currently a half-second cooldown on this ability so when
using a fast attack, such as Puncturing Strikes, it will not proc twice in a row. Also note that we’ve balanced the DPS of these abilities with this in mind."
What happened to this? Was it forgotten? We still need clearenceon whether the CD was removed or not.
Burning Light will still not proc on shields, this is a major issue in both PvE and PvP since a large part of our damage comes from this passive, we need
clearence!
Also with this proc beinc such a big part of our damage I don't understand why it is only magick damage, in my opinion it should abide to the damage
type of the aedric spear ability used which it procs from, this would make stamina templars even more capable at DPS!
- Puncturing Stikes; damage and morphs
As templars and especially stamina templars are currently struggling to keep up in PvE and this is our main damage ability it should be reverted back to 170%
additional damage on main target instead of 140%. That is approxemately a 10% increase in damage and won't make a world of difference in PvP, but it will in
PvE. I understand this ability does the most damage in the game per ability, but it is also a channel, so it needs to hit hard!
There is a lot of discrepancy between the morphs of this ability. The magicka version has a major health return morph which is absolutely awesome while the
stamine version gives extra crit. While the crit is really nice wouldn't it also be fair if the stamina version returned a bit of health? Where the magicka version
gives 40% health back maybe the stamina version could give 20%? This would certainly help stamina templars a lot in PvE content where staying alive while also
dealing damage can be a bit tough and would make a lot of sense considering we're a self healing class. In comparison the Surprise Attack from NBs also do A
LOT of things for them so I don't think this is a totally unfair change.
- Major Spell/Weapon Power
Templars are now the only class that get neither of those where other classes gets served them for nothing, is this intended or an oversight? I am fine with this
if you implement some of the other buffs suggested here but thought it was worth mentioning.
- Mobility; Rune Focus
Besides not getting Major Spell/Weapon Damage buffs Templars are now also the only class without any kind of movement option in either speed buffs or
movement utility. That is understandable, but you need to make Rune Focus a 100% self buffs to not lock Templars down in a certain position completely, we
need to be allowed to move around, and preferably all the self buffs that comes with Rune Focus should stick on us when moving around aswell. You cannot be
serious if you want us to weapon swap and renew a buff every 8 second with the current way PvP is being played, and yes I know it can be placed on main bar
aswell, but we all know that self buffs have no room on your damage bar, it would not be advantageous.
- Rescource Management; active abilities and passive abilities
Before I get too much into this, since it is a rather big deal I would like to do a class comparison of the tools available for each class to manage HIS OWN
rescources and maintain them, both through passives and active abilities. For the sake of simplicity I have excluded anything that has to do with health and
health regen since here we're more concerned about stamina and magicka.
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Dragonknight:
7x ultimate cost magicka/stamina restored
2% stamina return when activating Earthen Heart ability
Draw Essence - restores magicka per enemy hit
Nightblade:
1848 magicka over 6 seconds when killing target with class execute
15% increased stamina/magicka recovery
8% increased magicka with Siphoning ability slotted
Siphonin Attacks - Restore 1k magicka and stamina on each basic attack and 10% chance of restoring 2k magicka and stamina per basic ability hit
Sorcerer:
5% reduced magicka/stamina cost
15% reduced ultimate cost
10% increased magicka recovery
20% increased stamina recovery with Daedric Summoning ability slotted
10% increased magicka regeneration with Restoring Twillight slotted (Minor Intellect)
5% max magicka/stamina with Bound Armor slotted
Dark Exchange - change stamina into health/magicka or magicka into health/stamina
Templar:
4% reduced magicka/stamina/ultimate cost
10% increased magicka/stamina regeneration (Minor Intellect and Minor Endurance)
Repentance - sucks health/stamina out of corpses
Channeled Focus - 120 magicka every 0.5 seconds
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It quickly becomes very appearent that Nigblades and Sorcerers have the best deals.
Sorcerers have the best passives for sustaining magicka/stamina, on the other hand their active ability is not worth using.
Nightblades have som good passives for sustaining aswell, but their active ability is what really makes them the kings of managing rescources at the moment.
On top of this both classes have really awesome damage passives, but I won't go into detail on those here since we are talking about sustain.
Next we have the Dragonknights, these are a little tricky to judge because their passives aren't straight up bonuses, but when first a Dragonknight get going with some great ultimate generation they will be popping ultimates fairly often, and most times it will be like popping a tri-stat potion. It is hard to put a number on, but they are easily up to scratch when it comes to managing rescources, atleast on par with the Sorcerer. Their activated ability isn't worth it really but thought I should mention it anyway.
Then we have the Templar; 4% reduced cost is what they could amount to... Unless you play magicka in which you have Channeled Focus which is a really good ability aswell - but once again you need to stand still. Repentance gives us Minor Intellect and Endurance when slotted - here it is worth nothing that it is not just a 10% increase, so it won't stack with other minor buffs of the same kind. Anyway Repentance is good in PvE, but you wouldn't have it on main bar so you would never benefit from this, and in PvP it's the same story, only it is debatable whether you should slot it at all. On top of all this Templars have the highest base cost abilities in the game.
So the verdict is that if you play stamina once again rolling Templar is the worst choise when it comes to managing rescources, something needs to be done about this ZOS!
I would propose getting rid of the Master Ritualist passive in the Restoring Light tree; currently it is a resurrection passive and completely useless for the Templar and his allies outside stacking it with Kagrenac armor and almost instantly ressing people, which is also an issue. Change this passive into some stamina and magicka return or whatever, just something to get us up to scratch!
I also seriously propose changing the behaviour from Repentance to maybe be usable on living targets instead or aswell and just add less rescources or something.
Templars and especially stamina templars needs some help in this area, please get on it!
In regards to damage passives across all four classes that is a bit harder to judge but to me it seems fairly balanced in terms of passives, if you also take into account the class abilities.
The Final Verdict and Conclusion
This is kind of a TL;DR version but in order to understand these conclusions you have to read the rest of the post, so if you haven't, please do!
In order for Stamina Templar to truely be worth playing again you need to do the following, at the very MINIMUM, in addition to the changes you already made:
- Puncturing Strikes and its morphs back to 170% additional damage on main target
- Fix Burning Light hidden cooldown and the proccing on shields
- Further buffs to class ultimates; see suggestions above!
- Better rescource manage (stamina/magicka) through passives; see suggestions above!
- Make Eclipse a self buff that absorbs/reflects instead of a targeted effect; see suggestion above!
- Sun Shield should not be affected by Battle Fatigue and possible recieve more buffs
- See if you can add more stamina morphs; other classes have them; see suggestions above!
- Make sure you make Rune Focus and morphs self buffs instead of ground targeted effects, do not lock us down into one position; see suggestion above!
I hope the people I tagged and possibly others will chime in for their feedback on stamina templars now, and if you have any remarks to what I have written feel free to give them now. I must ask people to refrain from quoting the entire thing, because that will be very annoying for ZOS if/when they see this post.
To ZOS I would like to extend my thanks for making this game, despite all my QQ I am having a lot of fun and I am very passionate about my class so I hope you will atleast aknowledge this thread and tell me here and hopefully take of my suggestions in make the appropriate changes before PTS is over.
To all the people I have discussed this with over the last day since patch notes hit and before that, including some of the people I quoted at the top of the page, I just want to say thanks for the discussions and I hope you will chime in and let ZOS know what needs to be done.
Thank you everyone for reading!
This a call to arms my fellow stamina templar brethren, now is our chance to sieze the opportunity and tell Zenimax what needs to happen with the stamina templars, and that it needs to happen before PTS is over! @Alcast @Mumyo @Husan @Morathras @Soris @BlackEar @Springt-Über-Zwerge @Joy_Division @AfkNinja @Cinbri @Jura23 @dodgehopper_ESO @SemiD4rkness @BalticBlues @AOECAPS @Essiaga
I also hope you developers and community managers chime in or at the very least aknowledge this thread, depending on who is the appropriate person for this entire thing! @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_KaiSchober @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_BrianWheeler @Wrobel
The Stamina Templar - an ideology
For me I have always imagined my Templar as a paladin or crusader, a heavy front line warrior able to stand his ground and smite his enemies with holy light and fire while providing buffs to his fellow team mates. A holy variation of the DK more focused on buffing himself and his allies where the DK is more focusing on debuffing his enemies. The templar should not be a hit and run class, it should be a class that can somewhat stand his ground, while still being mobile, like the DK. He fights and dies with his sword in the hand. In order to be able to achieve this, there are several things that needs to happen in this game, with the templar balancing, and this is what I will try to adress in the next part, hope you're with me this far.
Before the PTS patch notes hit it was appearent that Templars, both magicka and stamina, have been suffering from DPS in competetive PvE that couldn't match with the other classes. This might not be very appearent in a normal dungeon run, but for us hardcore trialists, it is.
Templars have been suffering under bad passives, especially when it comes to rescource management, an in detail comparison will appear later in this thread.
Templars have suffered from bad survivability outside spamming heals, something that wasn't even a thing for Stamina Templars. The stamina version of the class that was supposed to be THE healing class had the worst self healing in the game, this was a major issue.
Templars had a lot of bugs, especially for Stamina Templars the bug that made Burning Light not proc on shields has made PvP very tough for us against Magicka NBs and Magicka Sorc.
We have suffered from mobility issues, but only as a side effect of not being able to stand our ground.
Furthermore stamina templars have suffered from a bad option of class abilities; typically in PvP a Stamplar would use Biting Jabs, Purifying Ritual and Restoring Focus. In PvE Repentance would be worth slotting aswell because there were a lot of dead bodies, but not in PvP. Then there's Piercing Javeling, which until now has been really questionable in its usage since Biting Jabs would hand out free CC immunity aswell.
Dawns Wrath was a completely useless skill tree with the exception for the 4% reduced cost passive, likewise the Restoring Light tree had three abilities worth using but none of the passives were worth slotting.
Furthermore none of the ultimates were really worth using. Nova had its uses as a zerg busting ultimate, but that was about it, you'd be better off with Meteor in all aspects of PvE. The Rite of Passage healing ultimate is completely and utterly useless, sure it works as a panic button but so does Breath of Life, only people lacking knowledge would use this in any content, and then there's the Radial Sweep ulti whos damage and range is so bad that it is rendered useless aswell, often replaced with Dawnbreaker.
So there we have it; stamina templars were in disarray, benefiting from 3-4 class abilities and the same amount of passives, with none of their ultis working, no proper movement, CC, or utility, nothing that was worth spending magicka on, with sub-par DPS in PvE and bad rescource management and survival, and the worst self healing in the game and an armor buff that lasted only 8 seconds since noone could stand still in a rune in PvP with a 5 m diameter.
Before the patch notes hit I made a over over in the General Section of the forums called "What will happen to Templars with the patch? Place your bets!":
forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/244923/what-will-happen-to-templars-with-the-patch-place-your-bets/p1
This thread clearly shows the frustration the templar community and especially the stamina templar community was in.
But while the verdict on the patch notes have been hard over there I don't agree that it was all bad, there were a lot of good changes aswell, so let's get into the patch notes...
Thieves' Guild Templar Patch Notes
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »[*]Blazing Spear (Spear Shards morph): This morph now displays a hostile red telegraph if it is cast from enemy Templars.
Good for the enemy I guess. I would have preferred to see a change to this ability that would also benefit the Templar himself. Currently this ability has two purposes; spam it on several mobs as a means to do AoE damage as a magicka templar or to feed stamina to your group members. This ability currently holds no position in the arsenal of a stamina templar unless you play along another stamina player, in which case it will most likely be foregone for something else anyway. Have you considered granting the stamina return to both the guy who uses the synergy and the templar himself if he is stood within range of the synergy activation when it gets used? You would still need someone to synergise and it would benefit the templar himself aswell. This could be deemed overpowered but then the stamina return could be scaled down. Just trying to advocate a buff here that would move templars more towards sustainability for himself aswell rather than just being a buff and heal bot.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »[*]Focused Charge: This ability and its morphs are now more responsive, and will no longer cause you to become stuck in the charge animation.
I have not tested this myself but according to what I have seen and read this still has a major global cooldown, doesn't really touch stamina templars much so I won't go into too much detail with it here.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »[*]Piercing Javelin: Increased the range of this ability and its morphs to 28 meters from 20 meters.
Alright, good change in accordance with the ranged buff the other class CCs got. Still, as a stamina templar this is the only hard CC we get inside the class trees, whereas DKs have a really good arrange of CC abilities available, same with NBs and Sorcs. But a good change nevertheless, would however love to have some kind of AoE CC given to us, doesn't have to be hard CC either.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »[*]Puncturing Strikes: This ability and its morphs no longer knockback and apply crowd control immunity to the nearest enemy on the final hit; instead, they now snare that enemy by 70% for two seconds.
This has been a year under way and it is a very nice chance, I very much applaud this. We will now be able to hit more with this ability and make it viable in PvP again. I would very much have loved to see the snare proc on the first hit instead of the last hit though. I am surprised to see we didn't get the damage bonus back to 170% again as it was before 1.6. Currently it's at 140% and a main damage ability of both stamina and magicka templars in PvE. Templars are struggling a bit with the DPS as mentioned earlier so I think raising the damage on main target to 170% additional damage would be fair. This would amount to around a 10% increase of damage with this ability, so it is not like it would be a major buff in PvP either, but would help us catch up a bit in PvE.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »[*]Radial Sweep: Increased the radius of this ability and its morphs to 6 meters from 5 meters.
This is not enough. It will still be impossible to hit with, the range needs to be 8 or 9 meters if not more. Furthermore, the damage on this ability sucks! I know it has a defensive buff morph aswell, but it is simply not enough. You need to go tweak some more numbers on this one, it needs to be a viable alternative to Flawless Dawnbreaker, if not better since it is a class ultimate. It needs to do the same amount of damage or more, and please, make it physical damage.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »[*]Radiant Ward (Sun Shield morph): Increased the shield strength bonus from this morph’s shield to 6% per enemy hit from 5%.
Once again another lackluster change, what is this going to achieve? It will still be useless in PvP and in PvE it will be nothing more but an unwanted gimmicky survivability skill when fighting many opponents, in which case you're still better off healing yourself or killing stuff fast. You need to go back to the drawing board... Maybe it is a bad idea have Battle Fatigue affect abilities that scale off % health, just like Dragon Blood for the DK? This will simply not cut it.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »[*]Backlash: Increased the maximum damage limit for this ability and its morphs by 25%, but decreased their damage stored amount by 66%. In addition, this ability and its morphs can no longer be reflected.
So it stores damage slower but hits harder in the end or what? Not sure what this means, but I don't see anything in here that makes this ability worth using or even slotting again. Not for burst in PvP and not for DPS in PvE. Back to the drawing board. Maybe replace this ability with an AoE CC? Bring back a changed version of Blinding Flashes? Templars needs this a lot.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »[*]Eclipse:
[*]This ability and the Total Dark morph can now reflect ranged physical projectiles back to the enemy, in addition to spell projectiles.
[*]Revised the tooltips for this ability and the Total Dark morph to indicate that the area damage effect is separate from the self-reflect effect, and can be applied to a CC-immune target.
[*]Fixed an issue where this ability and the Total Dark morph could reflect snares from ground-placed ticking abilities, such as Caltrops or Ash Cloud, and cause you to move at extremely high speeds.
This ability will be just as useless before aslong as it can be CC broken, even if the damage still happens. It needs to get the DK treathment; meaning it needs to be a self buff instead of something applied to target. Now I am totally onboard with class diversity, and not giving all classes the same tools. But part of the reason DKs can survive a lot in PvP and stand their ground is because of their Dragon Scales reflect; giving templars something simular would not be a bad idea.
I propose changing this to a self buff that absorbs 4 projectiles instead of reflecting them like the DK. Upon absorbing the fourth projectile the templar will explode in a holy nova in a 10m radius dealing damage to targets within range in accordance to 30% of the projectile damage absorbed and healing friendlies for the same amount. This would go great in line with what the templar is and if it is a bit too strong or weak the number could be tweaked. Anyway this is just a suggestion I am sure someone else could brain storm something cooler, but it is tools like this that we stamina templars need. Something worth spending magicka on over and over again and that helps us survive outnumbered fights.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »[*]Enduring Rays:
[*]This passive ability now only increases the duration of the Sun Fire, Eclipse, and Nova abilities.
[*]Increased this passive ability’s bonus to 15/30% more duration at Ranks I/II from 10/20%.
So what you're basically saying is that Radiant Oppression/Radiant Glory are just afterthoughts and instead of changing this passive into something benefitting all abilities you're just removing it? How about making it reduce the channel time but remaining the same amount of ticks? Also; in an effort to make stamina templars more viable how about we get a stamina morph of this? Would certainly give us more tools at our disposal.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »[*]Nova:
[*]Reduced the effects and visual light intensity for this ability and its morphs.
[*]Increased the damage from the Supernova and Gravity Crush synergies by 16%.
[*]Increased the activation range for the Supernova and Gravity Crush synergies to 3.5 meters from 2.5 meters.
These are all good changes but I don't see them making Nova worth more than it already is. We will still require another target for the full potential of this ability (an recurring theme throughout the templar class; relying on other people to reach full potential and bad synergy with yourself), and I don't see it takeing over Meteor's position. So it remains a zerg buster ability, fair enough.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »[*]Radiant Destruction: Fixed an issue where the execute bonus damage from this ability would not apply if multiple Templars were channeling these abilities on the same target.
Good good, as mentioned above, a stamina morph would be nice.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »[*]Solar Flare: Increased the damage for this ability and the Dark Flare morph by 12%. The damage of the Solar Barrage morph remains unchanged.
Why buff Dark Flare but not change Solar Barrage? Solar Barrage is so bad it was never used, atleast some people used Dark Flare for the healing debuff. You need to rethink this change and most like buff Solar Barrage or make it into something else so it is worth using. Now Dark Flare will be more viable for damage, cool, but Solar Barrage will still remain unused for everyone.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »[*]Unstable Core (Eclipse morph): Increased the area damage when the effect ends by 50% and can be placed on an unlimited amount of targets, but it no longer reflects single target spells back to the enemy.
So it is basically a timed bomb when placed on the enemy? Interesting. Still currently on my DPS geared magicka templar it does 4500 damage, with this patch it will be 6750 damage, and then cut that in half for PvP. It isn't a lot of damage. I think you could've easily given it a 100% increase in damage. Also as I said above, this entire skills needs rework to buff yourself instead. But one morph could be a self reflect/absorb and the other this one, when you increase its damage.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »[*]Vampire’s Bane (Sun Fire morph): Increased the damage over time duration for this morph to 9 seconds from 7 seconds.
Interesting, might make it worth using in a DPS rotation. Doubt it, but we will see. Would you consider making the other morph stamina based? Gives stamina templars a decent class based DoT effect.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »[*]Breath of Life (Rushed Ceremony morph): This morph now only fires one additional secondary heal, previously two heals.
For many people this is a big no-go but I actually think it is a good change. I have long advocated for tuning down templars as healers to make room for other classes as healers, and in return boosting our self-sustainability. I see what you're trying to achieve here and I agree with the sentiment. But we're not quite there for stamina templars atleast, eventhough this change didn't affects us at all.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »[*]Cleansing Ritual:
[*]Increased the healing from the Purify synergy from this ability and its morphs by 12%.
[*]Fixed an issue where this ability and its morphs could be used to cleanse projectiles that were mid-flight. It now matches the behavior of the Purge ability.
Too bad I can't purify incoming Meteors anymore but I understand the change.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »[*]Focused Healing: This passive ability now grants you the Major Mending buff while standing in your own Cleansing Ritual, Rune Focus, or Rite of Passage area effects and for up to 2/4 seconds after leaving them at Ranks I/II, instead of granting you 15/30% more healing to allies standing in your own Cleansing Ritual, Rune Focus, or Rite of Passage.
Finally! It never made much sense that Stamina DKs had more self healing through their own Major Mending buff, when templars were supposed to be the class with the best self healing available. Very good change! One thing though; I think it should give you Major Mending aslong as you're AFFECTED by Cleansing Ritual or Rune Focus, reason for the different wording will appear below under the Focus changes.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »[*]Healing Ritual: Reduced the cast time for this ability and its morphs by 25%, and reduced the healing done by 25%.
This ability will still be useless. We don't really need this in our arsenal anyway, Healing Springs from Restoration Staff will always be a better option. Back to the drawing board, maybe give us some proper self buff or AoE CC tool instead?
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »[*]Radiant Aura (Restoring Aura morph): This morph now grants you and your allies the Major Intellect buff upon activation, as well as having an increased radius as a morph effect.
We still get Major Intellect from potions aswell and seeing as this won't stack it will still be just as useless as before. Back to the drawing board!
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »[*]Rite of Passage: In order to prevent visual issues or issues where the channel would end prematurely, this ability and its morphs can no longer be cast in mid-air.
Yeah, like... Are you kidding me? Most useless ultimate in the game and this is all you had for it? Only unknowledgeable players will ever slot this ultimate. It needs to change! I understand you want it to be some kind of healing or survivability, fair enough. How about changing it to healing yourself and targets around you and granting you all some rescources back, including yourself? This way it could become a sustain ultimate. Or it could be like a protective bubble making you immunte to all harmful effects for 5 seconds and granting rescources back? Something else than just a healing panic button. Breath of Life spam is currently more effective than this.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »[*]Restoring Focus (Rune Focus morph): This morph now grants you the Minor Protection buff, in addition to granting the Minor Vitality buff as a morph effect.
[*]Rune Focus: Revised the tooltips for this ability and its morphs to indicate that the Major Ward and Major Resolve buffs will stick to you for 8 seconds after leaving the rune, while the morph effects of Channeled Focus and Restoring Focus require you to remain in the rune at all times.
Added bonus is always nice, not sure it was that needed but we will take it!
Now here comes the biggest problem; mobility.
Rune Focus is now a really really nice self buff; we get Major Ward, Major Resolve, Major Mending and Minor Protection along with either Minor Mending or magicka return depending on the morph.
One big issue though; we have to stay within the run!
Now this is not a problem in PvE, but in PvP we have to move around! We are now the only class without a mobility tool or a speed buff, since you just granted DKs Major Expidition on a Chain morph. That is okay, but you cannot force us to, on top of that, stand still in a rune. Sure the buff sticks for 8 seconds when we leave and the Major Mending for 4 seconds, but this is not good enough! Noone uses this in their main bar, that means we need to weapon swap every 5-6 seconds to reapply it or move back into the rune to reapply the effect. I understand you don't want the templars to be a class that is all over the place like NBs and Sorc, but you're forcing us to stay put or be very stationary! NBs get their armor buffs passively when using their main damage ability, DKs get a 20 second duration with secondary effects, and so do Sorcs!
For the love of everything Tamrielic ZOS, allow this self buff to stick ON us for 20 seconds aswell along with the self buffs that follow with them. It is a much needed change and compared to all the cool utility and self buffs via passives the other classes are getting this is an absolute must!
This is my single biggest concern right now, make it viable for us to move around!
Remove the requirement of standing inside a small ground placed circle, allow it to become a true self buff that sticks to our characters, thank you!
The good:
- Snare on Puncturing Strikes instead granting target free CC immunity
- Major Mending through our Purify and Rune
- Bug fixes with some major abilities that didn't affect stamina templars though
- Minor buffs like Minor Protection on Rune etc, nothing big though but still nice
The bad:
- Class ultimates need a second looks; especially the ones in the Aedric Spear and Restoring Light skill trees are still not up to scratch
- Eclipse needs a second look; it will still not be worth using in PvP simply because it can just be CC broken, give it the DK treatment
- Sun Shield will still be worthless, it needs to possible not be hit by Battle Fatigue
- No changes aimed particularly at making stamina more viable; would like to see more stamina morphs
What wasn't touched upon:
- Burning Light; hidden CD and lack of procs on shields and damage type
In this thread on page 5 at the bottom: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/234362/templar-issues-thread/p5
Gina posts the following: "Burning Light – The proc chance appears to be lower than 25% •There’s currently a half-second cooldown on this ability so when
using a fast attack, such as Puncturing Strikes, it will not proc twice in a row. Also note that we’ve balanced the DPS of these abilities with this in mind."
What happened to this? Was it forgotten? We still need clearenceon whether the CD was removed or not.
Burning Light will still not proc on shields, this is a major issue in both PvE and PvP since a large part of our damage comes from this passive, we need
clearence!
Also with this proc beinc such a big part of our damage I don't understand why it is only magick damage, in my opinion it should abide to the damage
type of the aedric spear ability used which it procs from, this would make stamina templars even more capable at DPS!
- Puncturing Stikes; damage and morphs
As templars and especially stamina templars are currently struggling to keep up in PvE and this is our main damage ability it should be reverted back to 170%
additional damage on main target instead of 140%. That is approxemately a 10% increase in damage and won't make a world of difference in PvP, but it will in
PvE. I understand this ability does the most damage in the game per ability, but it is also a channel, so it needs to hit hard!
There is a lot of discrepancy between the morphs of this ability. The magicka version has a major health return morph which is absolutely awesome while the
stamine version gives extra crit. While the crit is really nice wouldn't it also be fair if the stamina version returned a bit of health? Where the magicka version
gives 40% health back maybe the stamina version could give 20%? This would certainly help stamina templars a lot in PvE content where staying alive while also
dealing damage can be a bit tough and would make a lot of sense considering we're a self healing class. In comparison the Surprise Attack from NBs also do A
LOT of things for them so I don't think this is a totally unfair change.
- Major Spell/Weapon Power
Templars are now the only class that get neither of those where other classes gets served them for nothing, is this intended or an oversight? I am fine with this
if you implement some of the other buffs suggested here but thought it was worth mentioning.
- Mobility; Rune Focus
Besides not getting Major Spell/Weapon Damage buffs Templars are now also the only class without any kind of movement option in either speed buffs or
movement utility. That is understandable, but you need to make Rune Focus a 100% self buffs to not lock Templars down in a certain position completely, we
need to be allowed to move around, and preferably all the self buffs that comes with Rune Focus should stick on us when moving around aswell. You cannot be
serious if you want us to weapon swap and renew a buff every 8 second with the current way PvP is being played, and yes I know it can be placed on main bar
aswell, but we all know that self buffs have no room on your damage bar, it would not be advantageous.
- Rescource Management; active abilities and passive abilities
Before I get too much into this, since it is a rather big deal I would like to do a class comparison of the tools available for each class to manage HIS OWN
rescources and maintain them, both through passives and active abilities. For the sake of simplicity I have excluded anything that has to do with health and
health regen since here we're more concerned about stamina and magicka.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Dragonknight:
7x ultimate cost magicka/stamina restored
2% stamina return when activating Earthen Heart ability
Draw Essence - restores magicka per enemy hit
Nightblade:
1848 magicka over 6 seconds when killing target with class execute
15% increased stamina/magicka recovery
8% increased magicka with Siphoning ability slotted
Siphonin Attacks - Restore 1k magicka and stamina on each basic attack and 10% chance of restoring 2k magicka and stamina per basic ability hit
Sorcerer:
5% reduced magicka/stamina cost
15% reduced ultimate cost
10% increased magicka recovery
20% increased stamina recovery with Daedric Summoning ability slotted
10% increased magicka regeneration with Restoring Twillight slotted (Minor Intellect)
5% max magicka/stamina with Bound Armor slotted
Dark Exchange - change stamina into health/magicka or magicka into health/stamina
Templar:
4% reduced magicka/stamina/ultimate cost
10% increased magicka/stamina regeneration (Minor Intellect and Minor Endurance)
Repentance - sucks health/stamina out of corpses
Channeled Focus - 120 magicka every 0.5 seconds
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
It quickly becomes very appearent that Nigblades and Sorcerers have the best deals.
Sorcerers have the best passives for sustaining magicka/stamina, on the other hand their active ability is not worth using.
Nightblades have som good passives for sustaining aswell, but their active ability is what really makes them the kings of managing rescources at the moment.
On top of this both classes have really awesome damage passives, but I won't go into detail on those here since we are talking about sustain.
Next we have the Dragonknights, these are a little tricky to judge because their passives aren't straight up bonuses, but when first a Dragonknight get going with some great ultimate generation they will be popping ultimates fairly often, and most times it will be like popping a tri-stat potion. It is hard to put a number on, but they are easily up to scratch when it comes to managing rescources, atleast on par with the Sorcerer. Their activated ability isn't worth it really but thought I should mention it anyway.
Then we have the Templar; 4% reduced cost is what they could amount to... Unless you play magicka in which you have Channeled Focus which is a really good ability aswell - but once again you need to stand still. Repentance gives us Minor Intellect and Endurance when slotted - here it is worth nothing that it is not just a 10% increase, so it won't stack with other minor buffs of the same kind. Anyway Repentance is good in PvE, but you wouldn't have it on main bar so you would never benefit from this, and in PvP it's the same story, only it is debatable whether you should slot it at all. On top of all this Templars have the highest base cost abilities in the game.
So the verdict is that if you play stamina once again rolling Templar is the worst choise when it comes to managing rescources, something needs to be done about this ZOS!
I would propose getting rid of the Master Ritualist passive in the Restoring Light tree; currently it is a resurrection passive and completely useless for the Templar and his allies outside stacking it with Kagrenac armor and almost instantly ressing people, which is also an issue. Change this passive into some stamina and magicka return or whatever, just something to get us up to scratch!
I also seriously propose changing the behaviour from Repentance to maybe be usable on living targets instead or aswell and just add less rescources or something.
Templars and especially stamina templars needs some help in this area, please get on it!
In regards to damage passives across all four classes that is a bit harder to judge but to me it seems fairly balanced in terms of passives, if you also take into account the class abilities.
The Final Verdict and Conclusion
This is kind of a TL;DR version but in order to understand these conclusions you have to read the rest of the post, so if you haven't, please do!
In order for Stamina Templar to truely be worth playing again you need to do the following, at the very MINIMUM, in addition to the changes you already made:
- Puncturing Strikes and its morphs back to 170% additional damage on main target
- Fix Burning Light hidden cooldown and the proccing on shields
- Further buffs to class ultimates; see suggestions above!
- Better rescource manage (stamina/magicka) through passives; see suggestions above!
- Make Eclipse a self buff that absorbs/reflects instead of a targeted effect; see suggestion above!
- Sun Shield should not be affected by Battle Fatigue and possible recieve more buffs
- See if you can add more stamina morphs; other classes have them; see suggestions above!
- Make sure you make Rune Focus and morphs self buffs instead of ground targeted effects, do not lock us down into one position; see suggestion above!
I hope the people I tagged and possibly others will chime in for their feedback on stamina templars now, and if you have any remarks to what I have written feel free to give them now. I must ask people to refrain from quoting the entire thing, because that will be very annoying for ZOS if/when they see this post.
To ZOS I would like to extend my thanks for making this game, despite all my QQ I am having a lot of fun and I am very passionate about my class so I hope you will atleast aknowledge this thread and tell me here and hopefully take of my suggestions in make the appropriate changes before PTS is over.
To all the people I have discussed this with over the last day since patch notes hit and before that, including some of the people I quoted at the top of the page, I just want to say thanks for the discussions and I hope you will chime in and let ZOS know what needs to be done.
Thank you everyone for reading!
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AfkNinja✭✭✭✭✭
✭Agree with pretty much everything you said. I just don't understand ZOS's reasoning for Templar having to stand still...Rune Focus will be useless in VMA with these changes. 4 seconds on major mending? So Templar is the only class in the game that has to constantly recast their armor on top of having the worst resource management?
Overall a few of the changes were great, we really needed the snare on Jabs (should be first hit) and the major mending buff. Now it's time for more changes, why does Binding Javelin cost so much for a 3s stun? Add Major Fracture to it please. Most of these changes were clearly not thought out from the perspective of a Templar, I strongly suspect that no-one on the class balancing team even plays a Templar.
Make our "Rune" more like the Paladin from Diablo with Auras that follow us and buff people around us.
Don't really want to say too much till I test out all these changes but man, my heart is heavy after reading the patch notes. Once again Templar just feels marginalized and ignored.0 -
Kaliki✭✭✭✭Awesome write-up of a few of the most pertinent issues.
Can agree with almost everything.- Templars: Slower by Design® -0 -
Faulgor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Haven't read all if it yet but I see why you didn't post it in the Official Feedback thread. Very detailed and thorough.
Will edit this post later with my points, hopefully.
Edit: Thank you thank you thank you! Everything is absolutely true, although I'd say the importance for Major Brutality and Sorcery is even greater than you say.
What Stamplars largely lack, as you say are
- Regeneration tools
- Damage buffs
- CC
Further, I'd say that magicka Templars lack proper support skills outside of healing and shards.
So, my suggestions would be as follows.
Focused Charge: Apparently this skill is still bugged. Replace it with the jump of the Trinimac warriors in Wrothgar. It looks amazing, would add a unique form of mobility and seems to work.
Sun Shield: Like all health-based shields, this should be excempt from the Battle Spirit buff.
Radiant Ward: Instead of dealing damage after expiration, this now causes an AoE stun. Alternatively, the old blind effect.
Balanced Warrior: While having an Aedric Spear skill slotted, grants Major Brutality and Major Sorcery for 3 seconds after dealing critical damage or healing. Great synergy with piercing spear passive, utterly unique and not OP.
Radial Sweep: Increase radius to 9 meters. Deals physical damage.
Crescent Sweep: Grants Minor Force for 8 seconds.
Sun Fire: Initial damage increased by 15%.
Vampire's Bane: DoT damage increased by 20%. Duration the same (5 seconds).
Solar Barrage: Reduce cost by 50%. Keep cast time. No longer deals damage. Grants Empower by charging your hands with divine magic. Can be used up front for certain DPS setups, very unique. Would help sneaky Templars enormously.
Eclipse: Self-buff, 20 second duration. Absorb 1 projectile and release x AoE damage. Or something similar, not sure about this one.
Total Dark: Disables health regeneration for the duration. Increases magicka and stamina regeneration by 50%. Boom. Utterly unique regeneration skill.
Unstable Core: Disables magicka and stamina regeneration for the duration. Increases health regeneration by 100%. Could make very interesting tanking builds in PvP.
Healing Ritual: For x seconds, heals y% of maximum health. Another unique heal that would benefit stamina builds. Templars don't need more magicka-based healing, as long a HR tries to be a second BoL, it will remain useless.
Radiant Aura: Rename to Blinding Aura. While slotted, grants Minor Evasion. Activate to buff nearby allies with Major Evasion. Dang, unique support buff that fits the theme, makes use of an underused buff and helps stamina builds too (although it's a shame you'd have to forego Repentance for this).
Rune Focus: Double radius. Or something more thorough, but I'm no expert on this skill.
Edited by Faulgor on February 4, 2016 5:56PMAlandrol Sul: He's making another Numidium?!?
Vivec: Worse, buddy. They're buying it.1 -
Jura23✭✭✭✭✭
✭I suggest they give Sun shield both stamina and magicka morph while both scaling accordingly. Of course it wouldn't be as strong as Hardened ward, but I think it would be the only such shield in the game, which would maybe make this skill appealing again.
I like your comment about Radial Sweep. When you think about it, it should definitely have more dmg than Dawnbreaker. Why? Because Dawnbreaker has freaking 60% increase against Undead and Daedra. This makes it also amazing PvE dd ultimate. Radial Sweep needs to be buffed.
I already pointed out somewhere that the snare being applied on the last hit of the sweeps is far from optimal.
Long writeups aren't my thing, but I might add some more of my thoughts later when I see other ppl's opinions as well.Georgion - Bosmer/Templar - PC/EU1 -
Jura23✭✭✭✭✭
✭Agree with pretty much everything you said. I just don't understand ZOS's reasoning for Templar having to stand still...Rune Focus will be useless in VMA with these changes. 4 seconds on major mending? So Templar is the only class in the game that has to constantly recast their armor on top of having the worst resource management?
Overall a few of the changes were great, we really needed the snare on Jabs (should be first hit) and the major mending buff. Now it's time for more changes, why does Binding Javelin cost so much for a 3s stun? Add Major Fracture to it please. Most of these changes were clearly not thought out from the perspective of a Templar, I strongly suspect that no-one on the class balancing team even plays a Templar.
Make our "Rune" more like the Paladin from Diablo with Auras that follow us and buff people around us.
Don't really want to say too much till I test out all these changes but man, my heart is heavy after reading the patch notes. Once again Templar just feels marginalized and ignored.
There is one problem with this. There are ppl who use Ransack as their dps ability and that grants Major Fracture. That's why I would prefer something else for Javelin.
This leads me to another thing which affects all builds - taunts should have some negative effect on player enemies, maybe debuff of some sort, so that skills like Ransack don't lose one of their effects in PvP completely.Georgion - Bosmer/Templar - PC/EU1 -
Jaywics✭✭✭Totally agree however devs have a hard on for the templar class to be nerfed so much that it will not be used in pvp because their powers secretly hinder performance issues in IC
#truthXBOX1 NA
XBL: Jaywics
Discord ID: jaywics#20782 -
acw37162✭✭✭✭✭
✭Excellent work;
You could help both stamina and magica Templars with a toned down version of blinding flashes making a comeback. The total lack of utility becomes less apperant then.
Resources and passive are a huge deal. TBH balanced warrior needs to grant spell damage but that would require a re-work of damage numbers.
Channels focus is the easiest way to fix resource management. Rune focus should stay as is and channeled focus should grant major endurance and intellect for 12 seconds regardless of if your in the rune or not. We could then stack major and minor buffs but could not stack them positions which nails give Templars a unique aspect for builds by being creative with potions. And by changing it to major minor buffs you fix some of the wonkiness with the regen part of channeled focus.
Bring back a toned down version of blinding flashes.
Add major brutality and major sorcery passively to Dawns Wrath passive lines.
Add major endurance and major intellect to channels focus as a 12 second buff increase the cost.
Add a new skill Divine Leap with a magica morph for more damage and a stamina morph for more utility.
Divine Leap (could possible replace shards)
Jump into the heavens and to charge your attacks, and crash back to earth doing AoE damage. (If you replace shards synergy here for magic and stamina regen)
Magica morp - extra damage guaranteed burning light proc on landing (if you replace shards place synergy here for stamina and magica recovery)
Stamina Morp - can leap twice at escalating cost
*this ability is a targetable Aoe so could give mobility to stamina users who lack mobility and survive ability to stamina users.
We will never see any of this so whatever. If the PTS for Tenplars doesn't change I'll be un-subbing until class change comes on board, the latch notes are beyond depressing.
Not to change the subject but Sorc's got buffs are you kidding me.
Wasted months becoming a nine trait medium crafter for a character much better off in light armor after these patch notes.
Every class except Templars now has access to major brutality and major sorcery in their class skill trees. I'll say again we are the only class reliant on non-class skills for major sorcery and major brutality buffsEdited by acw37162 on February 4, 2016 5:06PM2 -
Mumyo✭✭✭✭✭I just tell u about my last fight... awesome teamfight... 1 overload light for 12k in my face ( even had 15ks before) Fight over... dead!
Thats all i have to say about anything.
just another teamfight... deathrecap 5 overload lights, each 11kEdited by Mumyo on February 4, 2016 6:22PM0 -
Bazeric✭✭✭✭I strongly suspect that no-one on the class balancing team even plays a Templar.
Why would they want to if they ever read the forums, all they'd see is basically, "4 da best lulz roll NB/Sorc" if you catch my drift. Why bother really testing a healer/weaker class when it is more fun to test strong/more interesting/easier classes. I'm sure they really test every class, but maybe they end on Templar and are burnt out at that point and just check its heal-bot abilities and move on.
Nice write up (there are so many for Templar any more, if that says anything) I know they are working on things. The skills side of things are tricky but I think that they passive side of things might be a better start to adjust Templars now (bug fixes excepted obliviously). Later in the OP has a nice break down of classes and their passives. The Enduring Rays change is particularly poor. Yes the extended time negatively affected other skills in the tree, but now the passive only effects two skills and one ultimate. That means it leaves half the tree alone and does nothing for the actual player. Unlike having a flat bonus or a bonus for equipping a *any* skill from the tree. *cough* 15% regen NBs *cough* x% pool increase sorcs *cough*
Maybe add a 1/3% (rank I/II) magicka pool increase for slotting any skill in the tree. It's a small yet helpful (actually useful for the whole tree) passive. I know that doesn't help stamplar as per OP but aside from giving us back our across-the-board heal bonus passive for any heal (which would only reinforce the heal-bot roll and the healing staff), idk that ZOS has the money/time to bother with such a minority. They don't seem keen on responding to why or why not community suggestions are sensible or not. (At least not in a timely enough I recall).
The longer I type this the more I feel we should embrace the underdog roll and rely on superior skill and ultimately get so frustrated we either reroll to easy mode or move on entirely, and I suspect ZOS excepted the same. *rainy day*
Damn... Feels like I'm wielding the hammer that's nailing shut the coffin......*You equipped a hammer, you gain "Major Bummer"*Looking for broken things in hopes they may be fixed. I've given up, my game literally works differently from yours.
64M+ AP across 9 toons... kinda makes me a GO1 -
Latter✭✭✭Hey you didn't tag me!
Could i get a TL;DR for this? I'll try to read it later tonight* vMoL Hardmode completed
* vMoL Nodeath completed
* #1 v16 vSO clear
Check out my builds on Tamriel Foundry!
Magicka Templar DD - http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/latters-magplar-dd-for-vet-dungeons-trials/
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCx8bZlCBgvxLRL9iHBFRceg0 -
Husan✭✭✭✭✭Thank you @Zinaroth for taking your time and writing this up. It's obvious you are passionate about templars, and so am I - so this thread is very much appreciated. After reading the patch notes I was underwhelmed, to say the least. The bug fixes (even though they are way too late) are awesome and some of the buffs are great, but I have expected much more. Hopefully we can push for more buffs to the class if enough of us raise our voices and offer constructive advice on what we, long time templar players believe is needed for our class to thrive in the current meta.
I completely agree with everything you said, but I would like to vocalize at least few of the issues once again without being redundant to further the odds someone in ZOS notices
. I know you created this thread with mainly stamina templar in mind, so that's all I will talk about in this thread, but I will leave another comment in the official thread where I will talk about both stamina and magicka templars and touch on the abilities I wont mention here.
So without further ado, a stamina templar with the current PTS patch notes is definitely better off than on live at the moment, that is for sure. Ritual giving a major mending buff and jabs not giving out free cc immunity for the little 0.5 sec stun are very good improvements on their own. But that is sadly all that stamina templar has recieved, and to really put it into a spot where it can compete with the likes of stamina dks and nightblades much more is expected:
1. Stamina jabs damage should be increased. Like Zinaroth said the old 170% is a logical amount.
2. The 1 second hidden cooldown on burning light has to go to further increase the damage of jabs. Only then can a stamina templar compare to top-tier damage dealers in terms of sustained DPS.
3. Sun shield is a nice magicka dump for stamina templars. But not in PvP, where it's actually needed. This ability and it's morphs should not have it's shield amount reduced by battle spirit.
4. Dawns wrath tree needs to be looked into to see where it can be improved for a stamina templar. I'll admit I don't completely understand the changes to backlash yet, so I don't know whether that is the answer I am looking for. I do know, that the enduring rays passive is one of the worst in the game, proven by the fact that half of the skills in the tree get DPS decreases just by putting points into it. This passive should be replaced. Options include a passive giving us a minor mobility boost when using a templar skill, a way to activate major sorcery/major brutality for templars without going into other skill trees (seeing as all other classes have that option now), or a much needed sustain passive.
5. Class ultimates need to be looked into again. I feel like radial sweep and it's morphs should be the go-to option for a stamina templar, but right now there is no reason not to run flawless dawnbreaker instead. It does more damage to any opponent, crazy damage against certain opponents, and it also passively increases weapon damage by a considerable amount. My suggested change is to increase the cost of radial sweep, and significantly increase the damage. The damage morph of this skill should hit for more than dawnbreaker does, atleast on non-undead/non-werewolf/non-deadra enemies.
For stamina templar, that is basically it. These 5 changes are all it takes to pull stamina templar from the bottom of both PvE and PvP rankings all the way to the top where they are comparable to magicka sorcs and magicka dks in PvE DPS once again (remember the times guys?), and also comparable to the current powerhorse that is stamina DK in PvP. Stamina sorcs might get lonely in the abyss of weak classes, so please also have a look at them when you are done implementing these changes please.
Back to you, Zina
3 -
Zinaroth✭✭✭✭✭
✭Thank you @Zinaroth for taking your time and writing this up. It's obvious you are passionate about templars, and so am I - so this thread is very much appreciated. After reading the patch notes I was underwhelmed, to say the least. The bug fixes (even though they are way too late) are awesome and some of the buffs are great, but I have expected much more. Hopefully we can push for more buffs to the class if enough of us raise our voices and offer constructive advice on what we, long time templar players believe is needed for our class to thrive in the current meta.
I completely agree with everything you said, but I would like to vocalize at least few of the issues once again without being redundant to further the odds someone in ZOS notices. I know you created this thread with mainly stamina templar in mind, so that's all I will talk about in this thread, but I will leave another comment in the official thread where I will talk about both stamina and magicka templars and touch on the abilities I wont mention here.
So without further ado, a stamina templar with the current PTS patch notes is definitely better off than on live at the moment, that is for sure. Ritual giving a major mending buff and jabs not giving out free cc immunity for the little 0.5 sec stun are very good improvements on their own. But that is sadly all that stamina templar has recieved, and to really put it into a spot where it can compete with the likes of stamina dks and nightblades much more is expected:
1. Stamina jabs damage should be increased. Like Zinaroth said the old 170% is a logical amount.
2. The 1 second hidden cooldown on burning light has to go to further increase the damage of jabs. Only then can a stamina templar compare to top-tier damage dealers in terms of sustained DPS.
3. Sun shield is a nice magicka dump for stamina templars. But not in PvP, where it's actually needed. This ability and it's morphs should not have it's shield amount reduced by battle spirit.
4. Dawns wrath tree needs to be looked into to see where it can be improved for a stamina templar. I'll admit I don't completely understand the changes to backlash yet, so I don't know whether that is the answer I am looking for. I do know, that the enduring rays passive is one of the worst in the game, proven by the fact that half of the skills in the tree get DPS decreases just by putting points into it. This passive should be replaced. Options include a passive giving us a minor mobility boost when using a templar skill, a way to activate major sorcery/major brutality for templars without going into other skill trees (seeing as all other classes have that option now), or a much needed sustain passive.
5. Class ultimates need to be looked into again. I feel like radial sweep and it's morphs should be the go-to option for a stamina templar, but right now there is no reason not to run flawless dawnbreaker instead. It does more damage to any opponent, crazy damage against certain opponents, and it also passively increases weapon damage by a considerable amount. My suggested change is to increase the cost of radial sweep, and significantly increase the damage. The damage morph of this skill should hit for more than dawnbreaker does, atleast on non-undead/non-werewolf/non-deadra enemies.
For stamina templar, that is basically it. These 5 changes are all it takes to pull stamina templar from the bottom of both PvE and PvP rankings all the way to the top where they are comparable to magicka sorcs and magicka dks in PvE DPS once again (remember the times guys?), and also comparable to the current powerhorse that is stamina DK in PvP. Stamina sorcs might get lonely in the abyss of weak classes, so please also have a look at them when you are done implementing these changes please.
Back to you, Zina
Thank you for putting your word in aswell, glad to see we agree on lost of this stuff. There's generally a great concensus among the stamplar community with what needs to be done, we basically all agree on the fundamental changes. Your list is not too far off with the abosultely needed changes although it is missing one of the things that's nearest and dearest to my heart:
20 second duration on Rune and making it a true self buff.
This really needs to happen aswell IMO. Swapping bars every 6-7 seconds to reapply it when Sorcs and DKs get more armor buffs with 20 sec durations and NBs get them as passives simply isn't fair.
But once again thanks for chiming in. 0 -
Jura23✭✭✭✭✭
✭Thank you @Zinaroth for taking your time and writing this up. It's obvious you are passionate about templars, and so am I - so this thread is very much appreciated. After reading the patch notes I was underwhelmed, to say the least. The bug fixes (even though they are way too late) are awesome and some of the buffs are great, but I have expected much more. Hopefully we can push for more buffs to the class if enough of us raise our voices and offer constructive advice on what we, long time templar players believe is needed for our class to thrive in the current meta.
I completely agree with everything you said, but I would like to vocalize at least few of the issues once again without being redundant to further the odds someone in ZOS notices. I know you created this thread with mainly stamina templar in mind, so that's all I will talk about in this thread, but I will leave another comment in the official thread where I will talk about both stamina and magicka templars and touch on the abilities I wont mention here.
So without further ado, a stamina templar with the current PTS patch notes is definitely better off than on live at the moment, that is for sure. Ritual giving a major mending buff and jabs not giving out free cc immunity for the little 0.5 sec stun are very good improvements on their own. But that is sadly all that stamina templar has recieved, and to really put it into a spot where it can compete with the likes of stamina dks and nightblades much more is expected:
1. Stamina jabs damage should be increased. Like Zinaroth said the old 170% is a logical amount.
2. The 1 second hidden cooldown on burning light has to go to further increase the damage of jabs. Only then can a stamina templar compare to top-tier damage dealers in terms of sustained DPS.
3. Sun shield is a nice magicka dump for stamina templars. But not in PvP, where it's actually needed. This ability and it's morphs should not have it's shield amount reduced by battle spirit.
4. Dawns wrath tree needs to be looked into to see where it can be improved for a stamina templar. I'll admit I don't completely understand the changes to backlash yet, so I don't know whether that is the answer I am looking for. I do know, that the enduring rays passive is one of the worst in the game, proven by the fact that half of the skills in the tree get DPS decreases just by putting points into it. This passive should be replaced. Options include a passive giving us a minor mobility boost when using a templar skill, a way to activate major sorcery/major brutality for templars without going into other skill trees (seeing as all other classes have that option now), or a much needed sustain passive.
5. Class ultimates need to be looked into again. I feel like radial sweep and it's morphs should be the go-to option for a stamina templar, but right now there is no reason not to run flawless dawnbreaker instead. It does more damage to any opponent, crazy damage against certain opponents, and it also passively increases weapon damage by a considerable amount. My suggested change is to increase the cost of radial sweep, and significantly increase the damage. The damage morph of this skill should hit for more than dawnbreaker does, atleast on non-undead/non-werewolf/non-deadra enemies.
For stamina templar, that is basically it. These 5 changes are all it takes to pull stamina templar from the bottom of both PvE and PvP rankings all the way to the top where they are comparable to magicka sorcs and magicka dks in PvE DPS once again (remember the times guys?), and also comparable to the current powerhorse that is stamina DK in PvP. Stamina sorcs might get lonely in the abyss of weak classes, so please also have a look at them when you are done implementing these changes please.
Back to you, Zina
I agree with your ideas about Radial sweep, but I think it should be achieved in different way, because I feel like it's price is it's only benefit and shouldn't be increased. I like Zinaroth's idea of changing it to Physical dmg, that could be the way to go, while keeping the price low.Edited by Jura23 on February 4, 2016 10:08PMGeorgion - Bosmer/Templar - PC/EU0 -
Ra'Shtar✭✭✭✭✭
✭Bound armor is 8% not 5%.Some of my favorite screenshots
My opinions and posts are mostly on a PvE setting.1 -
Husan✭✭✭✭✭
You're right! I completely forgot about this. I just finished typing up my thoughts on the templar patch notes in the official thread an I mentioned it there:Your list is not too far off with the abosultely needed changes although it is missing one of the things that's nearest and dearest to my heart:
20 second duration on Rune and making it a true self buff.
This really needs to happen aswell IMO. Swapping bars every 6-7 seconds to reapply it when Sorcs and DKs get more armor buffs with 20 sec durations and NBs get them as passives simply isn't fair.Rune Focus: Revised the tooltips for this ability and its morphs to indicate that the Major Ward and Major Resolve buffs will stick to you for 8 seconds after leaving the rune, while the morph effects of Channeled Focus and Restoring Focus require you to remain in the rune at all times.
This currently does not work as intended on live, and I have heard reports that it is also not working on PTS, although I haven't tested it myself. If we want this ability to be useful in a PvP and late game PvE scenario (VMA and trials), then this needs to become a self buff. All the other classes have easier, less tedious ways to obtain the major ward and major resolve bonuses. Recasting this ability every 8 seconds is just such a pain, I would give a kidney to see it go. A 20 second duration self-buff would be so amazing here. It would just be a really good quality of life improvement for templars.
Edited by Husan on February 4, 2016 10:25PM0 -
Ghost-Shot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Agree with pretty much everything you said. I just don't understand ZOS's reasoning for Templar having to stand still...Rune Focus will be useless in VMA with these changes. 4 seconds on major mending? So Templar is the only class in the game that has to constantly recast their armor on top of having the worst resource management?
Overall a few of the changes were great, we really needed the snare on Jabs (should be first hit) and the major mending buff. Now it's time for more changes, why does Binding Javelin cost so much for a 3s stun? Add Major Fracture to it please. Most of these changes were clearly not thought out from the perspective of a Templar, I strongly suspect that no-one on the class balancing team even plays a Templar.
Make our "Rune" more like the Paladin from Diablo with Auras that follow us and buff people around us.
Don't really want to say too much till I test out all these changes but man, my heart is heavy after reading the patch notes. Once again Templar just feels marginalized and ignored.
Repentance? Works wonders for me at least.0 -
AfkNinja✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ghost-Shot wrote: »Agree with pretty much everything you said. I just don't understand ZOS's reasoning for Templar having to stand still...Rune Focus will be useless in VMA with these changes. 4 seconds on major mending? So Templar is the only class in the game that has to constantly recast their armor on top of having the worst resource management?
Overall a few of the changes were great, we really needed the snare on Jabs (should be first hit) and the major mending buff. Now it's time for more changes, why does Binding Javelin cost so much for a 3s stun? Add Major Fracture to it please. Most of these changes were clearly not thought out from the perspective of a Templar, I strongly suspect that no-one on the class balancing team even plays a Templar.
Make our "Rune" more like the Paladin from Diablo with Auras that follow us and buff people around us.
Don't really want to say too much till I test out all these changes but man, my heart is heavy after reading the patch notes. Once again Templar just feels marginalized and ignored.
Repentance? Works wonders for me at least.
You honestly believe Repentance, which requires dead bodies, to be superior to the resource management of other classes? Which class? Please be specific in your arguments if you are going to challenge the validity of a statement I made.2 -
Soris✭✭✭✭✭
✭Great work Zin. I think now it's obvious that the blazing shield should loose its battle spirit effect in order to become useful again. That was such a great magicka dump for stamina templars both defensively and offensively without being op, no doubt on that. At this point, it desperately needs a huge buff to that skill. Period.
Lack of any reliable stamina management skill is the another problem that the stamplar faces. Repentance is so unreliable in pvp and it's almost useless when solo.I would like to see a skill like the old radiant aura. I don't mind a slight nerf to that but at this point a 100% uptime self stamina regen skill or a passive is necessary. And that should NOT conflict with potion effects for the sake of logic and reasoning.
There is of course more than that. Like the luminous shards issue, an another unreliable unblockable cc that you never hit anything with it due to the its extremely slow nature making it easily avoidable like any other templar spell.
Lack of aoe cc/root/pushback/dissorient makes the class to achieve a whole new level of uselessness. Only templar lacks aoe hard/soft cc out of 4 classes.
And how about that? Now it's the only class who lacks in-class speed buff! Yeah.Edited by Soris on February 5, 2016 1:12AMWelkynd [Templar/AD/EU]0 -
Essiaga✭✭✭✭Most of these changes were clearly not thought out from the perspective of a Templar, I strongly suspect that no-one on the class balancing team even plays a Templar...
Don't really want to say too much till I test out all these changes but man, my heart is heavy after reading the patch notes. Once again Templar just feels marginalized and ignored.
I think that much is clear. ZOS doesn't play a templar. There is so little that is unique about this class, which includes its healing. Everything this class has other class have the option of getting and a 90-95% equal level.
They simply did the bare min to say they buffed the class ... 1% and 1meter ... Changing passives that were no brainers asked for by the community for a year or more. Most of the "buffs" are to party skills so its obvious they only balance ESO for PVE. Its up to Wheeler's team to adjust Battle Spirit to balance PVP. If i hadn't already canceled my subscription I definitely would now.
There has not been any design put into the Templar class since they took Blinding Flashes away. All that's happened since then is bugs and fixes and alteration to the way things apply. They did the simple crap that people asked for. Snare on Jabs, slight alterations to passives, but no real balancing. No viable mitigation, dps, regen, resources. The buffed worthless skills to be only slightly less worthless, but not in a way to make them worth using unless your already using them for lack of better options.
Stamplars can benefit from mending and rune gaining protection if they're willing and able to sit still ... of course they weren't given any mobile mitigation or mobility which is the name of the game due to the strength of the 2 chosen classes. Cloak nerf compared to BOL and the fix to cleansing ritual (the templars only active mitigation ability worth using).
Everything done for the templar is a backhanded. There is no love for the templar class and stam build have the benefit and curse of having the 2-handed skill line which provides the other class with just about everything you could ask for, while still being able to utilize class magicka abilities for mobility, mitigation, and even added dps. Stamplar is uniquely screwed in this as the class skills are simply not there. Not even magicka morphs. It's BOL baby. Sun Shield is joke in PVP or that would be a great skill for stamplars to spend magicka on. Ellipse could have been but it's simply free CC immunity, and doesn't effect those with CC immunity.
SO the rework on Elipse ... just projectiles now. Lava whip away. 1 reflect. Advantage ... DK. But we got a buff to Dark Flare the most easily interrupted, dodge-able, reflect-able skill in the game. We'll be self debuffing and killing our selves trying to use that skill. Its a magicka PVE buff. It didn't get its cast time fixed to be accurate to the tool tip, and they completely ignored the other morph Solar Barrage would they could have added an AOE debuff or CC on giving potentially legit use of magicka for a stamplar. At least there still the bow Bows.
Stamplar needs:
Stam charge in class.
Stam self heal in class.
Buff to Jabs damage (even if its just through berserk or brutality buff) to replacing Savagery.
From there what they need is the same as magicka templars:
Passive buff to regen, stats, etc.
Some damage mitigation via non-stationary buffs. (Maim, Evasion, etc) in class
Some AOE,CC, debuffs that are worth a crap in class.
Templars need an equivalent of Mass Hysteria. AOE hard and soft CC, that debuffs. Blinding Flashes is what they need. Even if its a magicka morph stamplars will still be able to use this as other stam builds use Mass Hys, Talans, Scales, Streak, etc.
The class as a whole needs more legit skills that have layers like Lightning Form. Buffs, damage, synergies with passives, that slotting gives another buff via passives. Templar Passives are weak. Our skills are situational and limiting (like Repentance or Rune Focus). When compared to the Sorc and NB, and even the DK, the templar just seems like the class that someone thought of some cool stuff for, left, and then never finished developing. Then someone put there stoner step son in charge cause his wife forced to give him a job.
Are skill that should synergize well together simply fail do to bugs and crappy game design like Battle Spirit. It would be pretty cool to use charge (bugged), Blinding Flash (removed), Jab, popping Sun Shield (nerfed, then Battle Spirit nerfed) when the heat is on ... It just that only one of those skills has been usable in the past 4 months or more and it doesn't do damage like you would expect because of phantom cool downs (Burning Light) and shields not taking the additional damage, the AOE not taking NB out of Cloak ...
So basically this crap is either to complex to work as it says it would or ZOS just doesn't care to put the effort into a class that no one there plays or cares for. Instead of giving a million dollars away they should take it and hire more staff for there skill team, including some who care to balance all classes and not just 2-3 of them. Essentially I think ZOS employees are no different then most of the community in when they seen Templar under perform they just switch classes and then buffed those classes instead. Then the templar just became the little brother. He's annoying me with his RD or BOL so we'll sock'em in the arm and let him cry to dad, who's to busy playing a StamNB to give crap.
Mom's don't let your sons grow up to be Templars.4 -
Ajaxduo✭✭✭✭✭I'd personally like to see a minor brutality/force proc thrown in somewhere. Jabs maybe? Most get the major savagery bonus from pots/Expert Hunter already. Rune Focus morph that sticks to the player and grants minor or major buff for dps, trash the healing jesus beam morph and rework it into a stamina morph. an increase to Power of The Light (how does it perform now with the change? it sounds like both a buff and a nerf) it could place a small AoE on the ground like the other morph, although it deals damage instead of healing (decent sustain buff in PvE). I'd love to see an increase to Crescent Sweep rather than just plain old Meteor, maybe add an effect akin to the Empower Sweep although for damage instead of damage reduction. *shrugs*
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GM of Verum Aeternus, PC EU
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Cinbri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I will leave my suggestions and impressions in main templar thread soon™. Need more tests with other 3 classes to be sure that my suggestions won't be biased.Edited by Cinbri on February 5, 2016 10:43AM1 -
Zinaroth✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'd personally like to see a minor brutality/force proc thrown in somewhere. Jabs maybe? Most get the major savagery bonus from pots/Expert Hunter already. Rune Focus morph that sticks to the player and grants minor or major buff for dps, trash the healing jesus beam morph and rework it into a stamina morph. an increase to Power of The Light (how does it perform now with the change? it sounds like both a buff and a nerf) it could place a small AoE on the ground like the other morph, although it deals damage instead of healing (decent sustain buff in PvE). I'd love to see an increase to Crescent Sweep rather than just plain old Meteor, maybe add an effect akin to the Empower Sweep although for damage instead of damage reduction. *shrugs*
Agree on the Rune working as a self buff and a stamina morph instead of Radiant Glory morph. I don't think we necissarily need any more minor/major damage buffs or any movement utility is the other changes I have outlined in my suggestions are implemented. I have done some limited testing with Power of the Light, still seems kind of meh. Not a big fan of ground AoE, it's useless in PvP, we need more stuff for PvP TBH, that is where we hurt the most. Yeah not sure about the ultimate, I would just love a damage and range boost and have it converted to physical damage, would definately become a go to ultimate for stamina templars then just like DKs have Leap and NBs have three awesome ultimates to chose from.0 -
Elara_Northwind✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Poor Stamina Templars
I have been hit hard as a magicka templar, but its even worse for stamina! Templars need some love 
I find it bizarre that there are no stamina morphs for hardly any of the key templar skills, particularly in healing. Surely, as a templar, there should be some sort of stamina morph to rushed ceremony or healing ritual...? It makes me feel like the class loses part of its identity somehow... Sorcerer, Templar, Wolf Collector, Housing Addict!
GM of Salted Wings Tavern and Salted Wings Housing 🏠🌻
'A House is Built with Boards and Beams, a Home is Built with Love and Dreams'
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Jura23✭✭✭✭✭
✭The Stamina Templar - an ideology
For me I have always imagined my Templar as a paladin or crusader, a heavy front line warrior able to stand his ground and smite his enemies with holy light and fire while providing buffs to his fellow team mates.
Btw. this is exactly the idea I had in mind when I selected Templar first time I logged into ESO. Spot on man.
Georgion - Bosmer/Templar - PC/EU1 -
Zinaroth✭✭✭✭✭
✭Poor Stamina Templars I have been hit hard as a magicka templar, but its even worse for stamina! Templars need some love I find it bizarre that there are no stamina morphs for hardly any of the key templar skills, particularly in healing. Surely, as a templar, there should be some sort of stamina morph to rushed ceremony or healing ritual...? It makes me feel like the class loses part of its identity somehow...
Completely agree! Every other class has way more stamina morphs and stuff that is worth investing into magicka for, even on a stamina build...The Stamina Templar - an ideology
For me I have always imagined my Templar as a paladin or crusader, a heavy front line warrior able to stand his ground and smite his enemies with holy light and fire while providing buffs to his fellow team mates.
Btw. this is exactly the idea I had in mind when I selected Templar first time I logged into ESO. Spot on man.
*highfive*1 -
AfkNinja✭✭✭✭✭
✭Poor Stamina Templars I have been hit hard as a magicka templar, but its even worse for stamina! Templars need some love I find it bizarre that there are no stamina morphs for hardly any of the key templar skills, particularly in healing. Surely, as a templar, there should be some sort of stamina morph to rushed ceremony or healing ritual...? It makes me feel like the class loses part of its identity somehow...
Completely agree! Every other class has way more stamina morphs and stuff that is worth investing into magicka for, even on a stamina build...The Stamina Templar - an ideology
For me I have always imagined my Templar as a paladin or crusader, a heavy front line warrior able to stand his ground and smite his enemies with holy light and fire while providing buffs to his fellow team mates.
Btw. this is exactly the idea I had in mind when I selected Templar first time I logged into ESO. Spot on man.
*highfive*
Pretty much why we all picked Templar right? My theme was a sun wielding spartan style spear warrior and I love playing the class. But it's hard to feel the desire to play when every time I log in I'm hit with additional nerfs or just flat out ignored while other classes get great, thought out, new changes.
Edit: P.S. They need to add spear weapons to the game.Edited by AfkNinja on February 5, 2016 7:49PM1 -
Essiaga✭✭✭✭The Stamina Templar - an ideology
For me I have always imagined my Templar as a paladin or crusader, a heavy front line warrior able to stand his ground and smite his enemies with holy light and fire while providing buffs to his fellow team mates.
Btw. this is exactly the idea I had in mind when I selected Templar first time I logged into ESO. Spot on man.
but the reality is its just a weapon skill line user with no utility from the class. Just more lackluster attacks. (Jabs, Javelin, and Backlash morph). No healing for the healing class. No Mitigation for the "stand and fight class." Honestly I'm playing a different class or quitting ESO all together. Templar's aren't even given a thought from ZOS. They take away what other players complain about and give NOTHING back. It's neutered class with a novelty glowing spear. It is pure and simply the underdog class, if that's the way you want to play.
It doesn't look like any stam builds got a boost though. Only positive for Stamplar. I went Mag long ago and they get BS buffs to go with life altering nerfs. Templar class has not seen net buff as long as I can remember.0
