Official Feedback Thread for Class & Balance Changes

found1779 · February 2016

Baconlad wrote: »

F-you zoos...f-you, I have had so much patience thinking that this was the patch where Templar of all specs would have somthingnto givenother than just our great healing and minor sorcery. I didn't think you could possibly do this to us. You did nothing but fix bugs that should have been fixed with small patches years agoyou gave us buffs that no one asked for through dark flare. You gave us a Laughable 1% increase to a morph of skill that need 10%, didn't do anything for blazing shield. Which was the only thing tanks really have unless they spec dps tank.we needed MORE recourse return, and you nerved what little amount we have through channeled focus. Then to top it all off you gave us 1 ducking meter added to sweep ultimate. You buffed nova synergy damage when it was the non synergy damage that needed buffed, gave us 2 seconds on vampires bane, which will Not make folks choose it over inner light then to top it all off, the spec for sta,ina for All classes except DKs didn't get ***. Why the didn't bow get some utility? Why must every decent stamina build have a two hander on his off bar. Two handers have execute, major brutality, and massive stun/massive damage skill....I REALLY was not expecting this when I opened patch noted today... extremely upset with you

Not a Templar but this is the way i feel about stamina sorcerers also

Soris · February 2016

templar things
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/245052/how-do-you-like-your-templar
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/245057/thoughts-about-about-templar-changes/p1

tinythinker · February 2016

(Some thoughts are also found over here that should be added to the stack: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/245063/early-2-30-pts-class-changes)

Lord-Otto · February 2016

Underwhelming.
For "a ton of balance changes", I see only little here.
What I see is mostly good, but I fear it won't be enough to balance out Cyrodiil.
There is little change to vampire problems, Harness Magicka stacking, Wrecking Blow and Dark Cloak spam, and, and, and...
Basically, you guys left the hot topics of this forum from the last six months completely untouched...
I'm sorry, but this will most likely not cut it.

Are we to hold our breaths for more changes or is this the set list of things you are working on, Gina?

LorDrek · February 2016

Where is buff stamina? Lol only nerf DK, stamina dk RIP. This is horrible, this patch is big crap.

Trayyacakes · February 2016

I know you said wait until you try the changes before posting, but unless a note was missed I don't need to try anything to provide this feedback.

In Cyrodiil abilities that scale off of health are under performing do to the battle spirit change and the lack of incentive to stack health. The abilities being Obsidian Shield, Dragon's Blood, Sun Shield, drain essence and whatever else scales off of health. I know that DK's got other class options to heal in this patch, but that does not give a reason to still allow these abilities to under perform. We only have 10 ability slots, it should be hard to decide what we slot. Leaving abilities that simply don't work well in Cyrodiil because of battle spirit changes is kind of ridiculous.

Second Point the Breath of Life nerf was probably not needed with the changes to meatbags and purge. I will wait to test this, but it seems silly to gut this unique templar ability. I don't see the reason to take this over honor the dead anymore.

Derra · February 2016

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Good thing stam sorcs dont need to login to test any changes - they didnt get any.

They did - their enemies now can spec 25% reduced physical dmg. S*ck it pal.

Honestly i feel your pain

K4RMA · February 2016

The DK class lines still dont synergize well with stamina i.e no stamina insta cast DPS

Thevampirenight · February 2016

Well I think a lot of the changes were made to reduce lag, and make abilties not as spamable.
They did make changes to magelight and flare, giving them the abilty to not only reveal nightblades but also prevent them from stealthing, til the reveal is over and also stuns them.
The nerfs making some abilties only affect people if in group, and basically make heals and everything that was spammed before, to only six people affected by it is to reduce the lag, its obvious, they made changes so it does not strain the server as much. Which I think will improve game preformance, at least in pvp zones. They are returning the forward camps! also lots of new things to do with thieves guild!

I do think they have mostly balanced out the classes this time.
Well its not nice to complain before you tried it. they did work hard and seem to want to help improve the game, the changes were needed.
No longer will zergs be spamming heals with healing and other fps, dropping abilties.
From what I can see, they have done mostly well this time.
Appreciate there is some form of balance instead of more broken.

jeskah · February 2016

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Everyone, please wait to submit your feedback until you've had a chance to test out the changes. Thank you.

While of course, seeing the changes in "live" will result a somewhat more solid opinion, reading the patch notes give us some early advance. And if the patch notes are completed and nothing serious have been left out from it, it gives us an impression about the general idea of the developers. A glimpse of their vision of the game.

And for many of us, its not too bright.

Okay, nothing catastrophic, but still. (Yeah, mostly the expectations... those were sky high.)

zerosingularity · February 2016

So...About that Wrecking Blow,

...
...
...

Nope, no changes. *sigh* Please remove the self-empower or at least fix the range issue. (The one where you are hit from 15 meters away.)

And what about letting us crit shields? Kinda would like to see some decent crit builds in pvp. If shields gave 50% crit mitigation (instead of 100%) it would still be better than having nothing.

Takuto · February 2016

I'm a little shocked that the patch notes were so thin on balance changes. Is there more coming in a future PTS incremental next week or something?

There don't seem to be actual balance changes in this, just removal of toggle abilities, shuffling of unused morphs, and PvP related anti-stack-zerg changes.

My main is a stamina sorc, I don't really have anything to test. I have a V16 Magicka Sorc alt, on which I was expecting a major nerf, particularly to my 40K stacked damage shields, or perhaps my overcharge light attacks; but unless I missed it I'm not seeing anything here.

My weakest character, my healing Templar, is actually what gets the nerf hammer -- simply amazing.

I mean, I appreciate the anti-stack-zerg stuff, and removing toggles is awesome, but please -- PLEASE look at actually class/build balance changes.

Tankqull · February 2016

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Everyone, please wait to submit your feedback until you've had a chance to test out the changes. Thank you.

well i normaly do agree but atleast in case of "Breath of Life" it requires no actual usage to see that a 25-30% healing reduction (reduction from 3 to 2 healed persons) without any compensation does not work. with this change BoL will no longer be used and will live a life in the shadows as healing ritual...
HR btw perfectly shows how to act change one stat adjust another incompensation to keep it balanced.

Orchish · February 2016

Don't really need to test meteor being non reflectable. I wouldn't be surprised if at some point in the future my DK wings become just cosmetic.

Xantaria · February 2016

So they made it so Elemental Expert basically increases all Magicka based damage now. This is really good for Magicka builds.

BUT

Stamina builds that have different sources of damage don't get anything. A Stamina DK gains a lot of his damage from Fire Damage. And he still needs to split points between Mighty and Elemental Expert. A Stamina Nightblade will have similar issues because of the Magic Damage he does. To me it sounded like they wanted exactly this to be gone. Apparently only in favor of Magicka builds.

They should have just made:

Elemental Expert: Increases all Magicka based Damage
Mighty: Increases all Stamina based Damage

Both Stamina and Magicka builds need Thaumaturge.
Both Stamina and Magicka builds need Penetration
Both Stamina and Magicka builds need Critical Damage
Both Stamina and Magicka builds need Elemental Expert
Stamina builds need Mighty

So to increase DPS Magicka builds need 4 different passives.
and Stamina builds need 5 different passives.

smacx250 · February 2016

Takuto wrote: »

I have a V16 Magicka Sorc alt, on which I was expecting a major nerf, particularly to my 40K stacked damage shields, or perhaps my overcharge light attacks; but unless I missed it I'm not seeing anything here.

These are both going to hurt ward:

The damage over time effects from abilities such as Searing Strike, Twin Slashes, or Destructive Touch can now be applied to targets that fully or partially absorb the damage from a damage shield, or targets that are blocking.

Heavy Weapon Expert: This ability now increases your damage against damage shields, instead of increasing your damage with maces and axes. We also renamed this ability to Shattering Blows.

Derra · February 2016

Tankqull wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Everyone, please wait to submit your feedback until you've had a chance to test out the changes. Thank you.

well i normaly do agree but atleast in case of "Breath of Life" it requires no actual usage to see that a 25-30% healing reduction (reduction from 3 to 2 healed persons) without any compensation does not work. with this change BoL will no longer be used and will live a life in the shadows as healing ritual...
HR btw perfectly shows how to act change one stat adjust another incompensation to keep it balanced.

Templar always had the problem of being too good of a healer (without slotting a resto staff) to get meaningful changes in the dps department. Now that they changed (buffed) dps abilities it´s only logical to reduce the healing capabilities.

themdogesbite · February 2016

Alliance War related.. There was IMO no need to increae the base value of AP on a player. The reason behind the AP gain buff for small groups was the encourage this playstyle over a full raid. With the base increase large groups are still going to earn MORE AP then they currently are, which leaves them no reason to stop that playstyle. That is not the way to go!

To clarify, even with the buff to small group AP gain, thanks to the base increase in AP value, large groups still earn more AP then they do now. And thanks to their size they can still go into more or less every engage and be even more rewarded for their size then they are now.

This should really be looked into and possibly changed. Perhaps have the base AP buff increased in a group size of 8 or so and beyond that size drop it down to the current value, this would provide a great risk VS reward system, and would ensure that good players are rewarded for running in small groups. Which would help greatly with performance and offer a more intrestinf dynamic to PvP groups then the blob meta.

If this change stays in however, the large raids will still stay cause they get more rewraded for it now then ever before in terms of AP.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_GinaBruno Please reconsider.

Shader_Shibes · February 2016

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Good thing stam sorcs dont need to login to test any changes - they didnt get any.

LOL!

Emma_Overload · February 2016

zerosingularity wrote: »

So...About that Wrecking Blow,

...
...
...

Nope, no changes. *sigh* Please remove the self-empower or at least fix the range issue. (The one where you are hit from 15 meters away.)

And what about letting us crit shields? Kinda would like to see some decent crit builds in pvp. If shields gave 50% crit mitigation (instead of 100%) it would still be better than having nothing.

I would be OK with that IF they let us use Impenetrable trait and the Resistant passive to reduce the critical damage to the shield.

Derra · February 2016

themdogesbite wrote: »

Alliance War related.. There was IMO no need to increae the base value of AP on a player. The reason behind the AP gain buff for small groups was the encourage this playstyle over a full raid. With the base increase large groups are still going to earn MORE AP then they currently are, which leaves them no reason to stop that playstyle. That is not the way to go!

To clarify, even with the buff to small group AP gain, thanks to the base increase in AP value, large groups still earn more AP then they do now. And thanks to their size they can still go into more or less every engage and be even more rewarded for their size then they are now.

This should really be looked into and possibly changed. Perhaps have the base AP buff increased in a group size of 8 or so and beyond that size drop it down to the current value, this would provide a great risk VS reward system, and would ensure that good players are rewarded for running in small groups. Which would help greatly with performance and offer a more intrestinf dynamic to PvP groups then the blob meta.

If this change stays in however, the large raids will still stay cause they get more rewraded for it now then ever before in terms of AP.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_GinaBruno Please reconsider.

Actually large raids (20+ ppl) will get roughly the same amount of ap (patch 2.2 compared to 2.3) while smaller grps get double the ap they used to get. It´s a good change.

themdogesbite · February 2016

Derra wrote: »

themdogesbite wrote: »

Alliance War related.. There was IMO no need to increae the base value of AP on a player. The reason behind the AP gain buff for small groups was the encourage this playstyle over a full raid. With the base increase large groups are still going to earn MORE AP then they currently are, which leaves them no reason to stop that playstyle. That is not the way to go!

To clarify, even with the buff to small group AP gain, thanks to the base increase in AP value, large groups still earn more AP then they do now. And thanks to their size they can still go into more or less every engage and be even more rewarded for their size then they are now.

This should really be looked into and possibly changed. Perhaps have the base AP buff increased in a group size of 8 or so and beyond that size drop it down to the current value, this would provide a great risk VS reward system, and would ensure that good players are rewarded for running in small groups. Which would help greatly with performance and offer a more intrestinf dynamic to PvP groups then the blob meta.

If this change stays in however, the large raids will still stay cause they get more rewraded for it now then ever before in terms of AP.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_GinaBruno Please reconsider.

Actually large raids (20+ ppl) will get roughly the same amount of ap (patch 2.2 compared to 2.3) while smaller grps get double the ap they used to get. It´s a good change.

With the base increase per kill im pretty sure they will still get more, a larger group can engage in more fights which in the long run probably will gain them more AP. It's still a good change for small groups, but there is no reason to reward large groups in the process. If anything keep the base increase for a kill within the new value to a certain point of group size to furthere encourage smaller groups.

I might've missinterpeted the numbers though, im bad at maths and its late!

D0ntevenL1ft · February 2016

My only feedback is that you should remove stamina and templars from the game entirely. It will save a lot of players frustration down the road!

Derra · February 2016

themdogesbite wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

themdogesbite wrote: »

Alliance War related.. There was IMO no need to increae the base value of AP on a player. The reason behind the AP gain buff for small groups was the encourage this playstyle over a full raid. With the base increase large groups are still going to earn MORE AP then they currently are, which leaves them no reason to stop that playstyle. That is not the way to go!

To clarify, even with the buff to small group AP gain, thanks to the base increase in AP value, large groups still earn more AP then they do now. And thanks to their size they can still go into more or less every engage and be even more rewarded for their size then they are now.

This should really be looked into and possibly changed. Perhaps have the base AP buff increased in a group size of 8 or so and beyond that size drop it down to the current value, this would provide a great risk VS reward system, and would ensure that good players are rewarded for running in small groups. Which would help greatly with performance and offer a more intrestinf dynamic to PvP groups then the blob meta.

If this change stays in however, the large raids will still stay cause they get more rewraded for it now then ever before in terms of AP.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_GinaBruno Please reconsider.

Actually large raids (20+ ppl) will get roughly the same amount of ap (patch 2.2 compared to 2.3) while smaller grps get double the ap they used to get. It´s a good change.

With the base increase per kill im pretty sure they will still get more, a larger group can engage in more fights which in the long run probably will gain them more AP. It's still a good change for small groups, but there is no reason to reward large groups in the process. If anything keep the base increase for a kill within the new value to a certain point of group size to furthere encourage smaller groups.

I might've missinterpeted the numbers though, im bad at maths and its late!

IF a kill was worth 1000 base ap in patch 2.2 (its a little less) a 5 man grp would gain 300 ap for a kill.
A 24 man grp would get 138 ap per kill.

With the changes a kill would be worth 2000 base ap and a 5 man grp would gain 600 ap per kill.
Everyone in a 24 man grp would gain 125 ap per kill.

Edit: I feel it´s going to benefit medium sized grps of 8 to 16 players the most as they don´t suffer from the inability to engage certain amounts of enemies like small ones but will see a noticeable increase in ap gains. I think it´s almost perfect in terms of balancing out ap gains in relation to grpsize.

themdogesbite · February 2016

Derra wrote: »

themdogesbite wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

themdogesbite wrote: »

Alliance War related.. There was IMO no need to increae the base value of AP on a player. The reason behind the AP gain buff for small groups was the encourage this playstyle over a full raid. With the base increase large groups are still going to earn MORE AP then they currently are, which leaves them no reason to stop that playstyle. That is not the way to go!

To clarify, even with the buff to small group AP gain, thanks to the base increase in AP value, large groups still earn more AP then they do now. And thanks to their size they can still go into more or less every engage and be even more rewarded for their size then they are now.

This should really be looked into and possibly changed. Perhaps have the base AP buff increased in a group size of 8 or so and beyond that size drop it down to the current value, this would provide a great risk VS reward system, and would ensure that good players are rewarded for running in small groups. Which would help greatly with performance and offer a more intrestinf dynamic to PvP groups then the blob meta.

If this change stays in however, the large raids will still stay cause they get more rewraded for it now then ever before in terms of AP.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_GinaBruno Please reconsider.

Actually large raids (20+ ppl) will get roughly the same amount of ap (patch 2.2 compared to 2.3) while smaller grps get double the ap they used to get. It´s a good change.

With the base increase per kill im pretty sure they will still get more, a larger group can engage in more fights which in the long run probably will gain them more AP. It's still a good change for small groups, but there is no reason to reward large groups in the process. If anything keep the base increase for a kill within the new value to a certain point of group size to furthere encourage smaller groups.

I might've missinterpeted the numbers though, im bad at maths and its late!

IF a kill was worth 1000 base ap in patch 2.2 (its a little less) a 5 man grp would gain 300 ap per person.
A 24 man grp would get 138 ap per kill

With the changes a kill would be worth 2000 base ap and a 5 man grp would gain 600 ap per person.
Everyone in a 24 man grp would gain 125 ap per kill

Well i just saw the set that deals 15k aoe dmg when you kill someone, all my concernt for this is gone lol.

Also i trust your maths more then mine, i'll take your word for it.

Soris · February 2016

Derra wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Everyone, please wait to submit your feedback until you've had a chance to test out the changes. Thank you.

well i normaly do agree but atleast in case of "Breath of Life" it requires no actual usage to see that a 25-30% healing reduction (reduction from 3 to 2 healed persons) without any compensation does not work. with this change BoL will no longer be used and will live a life in the shadows as healing ritual...
HR btw perfectly shows how to act change one stat adjust another incompensation to keep it balanced.

Templar always had the problem of being too good of a healer (without slotting a resto staff) to get meaningful changes in the dps department. Now that they changed (buffed) dps abilities it´s only logical to reduce the healing capabilities.

Templar got one direct buff to one dps ability. And that's the dark flare which was already too powerful. And i believe that will be reverted due to the amount of incoming nerf threads after being abused.

Their resource management area is also got a nerf. Channeling focus bacame a true static buff where you place on ground and have to stay inside to get regen ticks.

Derra · February 2016

Soris wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Everyone, please wait to submit your feedback until you've had a chance to test out the changes. Thank you.

well i normaly do agree but atleast in case of "Breath of Life" it requires no actual usage to see that a 25-30% healing reduction (reduction from 3 to 2 healed persons) without any compensation does not work. with this change BoL will no longer be used and will live a life in the shadows as healing ritual...
HR btw perfectly shows how to act change one stat adjust another incompensation to keep it balanced.

Templar always had the problem of being too good of a healer (without slotting a resto staff) to get meaningful changes in the dps department. Now that they changed (buffed) dps abilities it´s only logical to reduce the healing capabilities.

Templar got one direct buff to one dps ability. And that's the dark flare which was already too powerful. And i believe that will be reverted due to the amount of incoming nerf threads after being abused.

Their resource management area is also got a nerf. Channeling focus bacame a true static buff where you place on ground and have to stay inside to get regen ticks.

If they manage to buff the actual dmg of the vampires bane dot with enduring rays instead of only "buffing" the duration that´s a good dps buff aswell (i can already feel darkflare>charge>dawnbreaker threeshots).

I think the change on darkflare is good - it´s still a casted ability with a ridiculous traveltime - although i agree the other morph needs attention more than darkflare.

Not sure how i feel about rune focus. It was super powerful to begin with. Now it´s almost useless. It´s one of those - meh why - changes.

Tankqull · February 2016

Derra wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Everyone, please wait to submit your feedback until you've had a chance to test out the changes. Thank you.

well i normaly do agree but atleast in case of "Breath of Life" it requires no actual usage to see that a 25-30% healing reduction (reduction from 3 to 2 healed persons) without any compensation does not work. with this change BoL will no longer be used and will live a life in the shadows as healing ritual...
HR btw perfectly shows how to act change one stat adjust another incompensation to keep it balanced.

Templar always had the problem of being too good of a healer (without slotting a resto staff) to get meaningful changes in the dps department. Now that they changed (buffed) dps abilities it´s only logical to reduce the healing capabilities.

not disagreeing about reducing the healing potential but they do need to adjust the spell cost.

Derra wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Everyone, please wait to submit your feedback until you've had a chance to test out the changes. Thank you.

well i normaly do agree but atleast in case of "Breath of Life" it requires no actual usage to see that a 25-30% healing reduction (reduction from 3 to 2 healed persons) without any compensation does not work. with this change BoL will no longer be used and will live a life in the shadows as healing ritual...
HR btw perfectly shows how to act change one stat adjust another incompensation to keep it balanced.

Templar always had the problem of being too good of a healer (without slotting a resto staff) to get meaningful changes in the dps department. Now that they changed (buffed) dps abilities it´s only logical to reduce the healing capabilities.

Templar got one direct buff to one dps ability. And that's the dark flare which was already too powerful. And i believe that will be reverted due to the amount of incoming nerf threads after being abused.

Their resource management area is also got a nerf. Channeling focus bacame a true static buff where you place on ground and have to stay inside to get regen ticks.

If they manage to buff the actual dmg of the vampires bane dot with enduring rays instead of only "buffing" the duration that´s a good dps buff aswell (i can already feel darkflare>charge>dawnbreaker threeshots).

I think the change on darkflare is good - it´s still a casted ability with a ridiculous traveltime - although i agree the other morph needs attention more than darkflare.

Not sure how i feel about rune focus. It was super powerful to begin with. Now it´s almost useless. It´s one of those - meh why - changes.

just add an AE minor defile to it and its fine.

llllADBllll · February 2016

The breath of life nerf isn't the end of the world but it would make more sense to just reduce the amount the 3rd and 4th person get.

Kevmeister · February 2016

CraftMaster wrote: »

The breath of life nerf isn't the end of the world but it would make more sense to just reduce the amount the 3rd and 4th person get.

There never was a 4th person. It only heals 3 players/characters/people in total.

Official Feedback Thread for Class &amp; Balance Changes

Official Feedback Thread for Class & Balance Changes