Reasons not to Tank in ESO(Both Group and Solo Play), Is it not Attractive?

caperon · February 2016

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Then found out that you're not recognized / appreciated by players. You know, like the drum player in a rock band, but all the

Thats not true. I tank with a magicka DK and I'm asked daily to tank something (mostly vWGT and ICP). If you are good and let people add you in their friend list you will never run out of request to tank. For daily pledges, tank is instant group with the tool.

TotterTates wrote: »

A truly great tank will make anything in pve, from questing to trials, go much smoother.

Thats very true.

A good tank will group all the adds and keep them grouped for fast aoe pulls, will keep major breach, major defile and minor maim in bosses and most if not all mobs in groups (increase dps, reduce incoming damage). Will provide some minor buf to the group (minor brutaly, savagery, sorcery... Increase dps), will let the dps do dps without even need to dodge or block random mobs (increase dps, reduce deaths), can use suport ultimates like horn, can give mitigation in form of shields or heals, is the standard interrupter, keeps the boss in the correct place...

A good tank will be mostly self-sufficient, being able to keep his resources by himself for a good amount of time and can take a beating without dying, so the healer can buf the group, dps (being de facto the 3rd dps in a lot of cases) or ress or get ressed.

The list is long. All of this is less flashy than post 22k dps but necessary for get those numbers and successful runs.

I've done runs with 3dd and healer and can be faster, but its easier someone dies, stresses the healer and you can't dps the same way with all the blocking or dodging you need to do from mobs and bosses hitting you. I really prefer go with the traditional setup to any vet dungeon (non vet dungeons are mostly soloable with enought CP). Maybe its a bit slower but more satisfactory for me, finish with no deaths and in a, as Tottertates said, smoother way.

Kelleton · February 2016

because tanks by definition take longer to kill something - the faster you kill something the faster you can move on to the next objective

shugg · February 2016

Other: Please Explain

I love being a tank However the issue is tanks can only do group pve.

Pvp - tanks are naff
Solo pve - carnt kill stuff as fast as dps and vet arena is a joke for tanks.
Most group pve dosnt need a tank but i run vet ic dungeons and trials so feel dlightly better.

There is alot of content that we buy as DLC that we arnt needed for or carnt do, i did make post on roles a few weeks ago that this will keep being an issue.

Anilahation · February 2016

Heavy Armor does not make my character more "Tanky"

I want to wear heavy armor and tank.

if I wear heavy armor and tank now I run out of resources and die, honestly 7 pieces of heavy should let you recover stamina while blocking.

kurioskurion · February 2016

Other: Please Explain

There is so much responsibility on tanks. So I'm so hesitant to try it. I just want to play and have fun. Killing stuff helps me do that.

dodgehopper_ESO · February 2016

DPS wins all Day every Day

The only thing a true tank is useful for in ESO right now is to do Trials and some dungeons. Beyond that, Dps characters are simply better at farming (killing mobs faster for greater CP rewards, money, inventory, etc). DPS characters get a way better kill counter in pvp because the balance of the game is far better for a DPS role character than anything else. The stamina regeneration nerf is still a *** choice on ZoS part. I think most of us could stomach a lowering of regeneration, but by killing regeneration altogether they have destroyed multiple builds outright. I'm sure a lot of Bosmer tank players out there are pretty pissed that their 30% stamina regen goes 100% into the toliet for 4 seconds if they block. DPS doesn't have any problem with losing stamina regeneration if they fire an attack. No one loses magica regeneration when tossing up a Hardened Ward. Dodge rolling gets progressively more expensive but you aren't losing 100% of regeneration for 4 seconds. In short they have ruined blocking apart from a few very niche builds, and have fundamentally made shield tanking (block) a pointless exercise. The right mouse key is not really worth using in 99% of cases, and I can hardly see how that should have been their intent.

I'm also not happy with Heavy Armor as well.

Miszou · February 2016

I enjoy tanking a lot. IDGAF about my DPS numbers or how long it takes me to solo mobs in the open world - I just like to join the LFG queue, get an instant dungeon and relieve the DPS that have been waiting in line for 2 hours.

I may or may not be "required", but I'm always appreciated.

That said:

Derra wrote: »

In every pvp game i´ve played before ESO tanks offered some form of grp utility that no other class/role had to offer.

Either it was blocking for squishier characters, a special form of cc, intercepting attacks, sharing dmg with one protected character, disabling enemy dps, taunting enemy players (reducing their dmg when not attacking the player taunting them).

Eso would need mechanics like guard and pvp taunts (along with healing nerfs bc if you can just outheal anything there is still no point in having a tank) to make tanks a desireable and entertaining role to play.

Tera is a great example of this. The DPS can slot weapon runes that increase damage to enemies when hitting from behind, making the tanks job of positioning and maintaining constant aggro VERY important, so the boss wouldn't turn around and one-shot half your DPS. Not only can many of the bosses one-shot your DPS easily, but you can't just stand with your shield up throwing the occasional taunt. As a tank, you have to actively attack the boss to build up enough resources to be able to block, so you really have to time it perfectly, otherwise you either fail to block in time, or run out of resources and get smashed. (This is why I don't mind the stam regen nerf, because I already tanked a game that does exactly this, and it just teaches you to manage resources properly).

Also, anyone behind you was in a sort "cone of pretoction" whenever your shield was raised.

Kukuii wrote: »

I play a Magicka Temp Tank. I tank in almost every MMO I play, yet this one feels odd. There is no AoE taunt. As a tank I feel I should be holding threat on everything like in every other MMO, yet this one it is ok to just let the trash/adds run wild after the DPS and Healers.

I do not like this.

OMG This! The lack of an AOE taunt sometimes makes me feel like I'm running in circles, trying desperately to poke all the trash with Pierce Armor before the DPS get run over. It's more like a game of whack-a-mole than anything I would call "tanking".

I realize there's a little more to tanking than this, but some of the trash pulls can just turn into a complete mess within seconds because of the lack of an AoE taunt. Yes, yes, I know about Talons, but it doesn't generate aggro so as soon as it wears off, you're either spamming Talons again or running around trying to tag things with Piece Armor while Yakety-Sax plays in the background.

lonewolf26 · February 2016

Other: Please Explain

In large group tanking is unrewarding. Imperial City raids against Bosses an Molag Bal make this apparent. As a tank you will often take more damage than you can mitigate if you are hit leading to many one-shots there. You will not do enough damage or healing to outclass a dedicate dps or healer, so this leaves you off of the loot table.

For the content that benefits from having a tank there are often portions of dungeons that are better fitting a 3-dps, healer group composition. White Gold Tower's Planar Inhibitor Battle is a prime example here. Unless your tank has a DPS or off heal spec having a member without a high-damage, instant-cast ability can be a big liability in those fights. My DPS, has an off-tank spec for situational dungeon content and PUGs.

All in all though, what you seem to need to shine in most content in the current meta are DPS and healers with a good sense for the flow of combat (interrupt, don't stand in the red, kite or dodge if needed), decent damage/heal output, and a little control for good measure. Dedicated tanks aren't given a lot of content to shine, but a great one can self-sustain in a lot of the current content, excepting trials.

Suru · February 2016

Is there no option in favor of tanks? Tanks have a place in most content in ESO, just the importance varies. The only place they don't have a place I would say would be in vMA. Tanking is pretty fun for most content. Its pretty lax in most places but a blast to tank in some. Only place I havent really dabbled in would be being super tanky in PvP. Tanking SO and vDSA are probably the most exciting.

I've tanked on Nightblade and DK, each has their place but I ultimately love to tank on my NB more, and tank on my DK on the off. They each have unique class abilities and cool ways to tank. Add in a bit of DPS here and there, use aggressive warhorn to boost party dps, accidently lose taunt and let your girlfriend get one shot, have a laugh and pay the consequences later, and make the content as smooth as possible. The only frustration I have as a tank is tanking on a Templar. Probably the most boring thing I've ever done.

I can't stress enough how having a tank character is. It opens up so much content for you if you don't have a regular tank friend, you could find yourself spending hours looking for a tank that will just be disappointing. All in all the tank changes did suck, but learning to adapt was needed. Tanking is no problem and fun. I tank often but its not what I ultimately do all the time.

kojou · February 2016

DPS wins all Day every Day

My main issues with tanking are as follows:

1. Tempering Alloy... way too rare and way too expensive. I don't even want to add up what my tanks "gold" armor is worth in gold.
2. Rewards still seem DPS based. If your tank doesn't pull enough then you get a soul gem and decon fodder at the end of a fight while the DPS's you just mitigated a lot of damage for get the armor you have been trying to farm for weeks.
3. No stam regen while blocking is manageable, but it really sucked some of the fun out of tanking IMO.
4. Once you have a good tank then it is pretty much all you will do. Everyone seems to want to run DPS and few have a tank toon to rotate in.

On the plus side a good tank can really keep a run nice and smooth and can always find "work" to do.

Hope499 · February 2016

DPS wins all Day every Day

Lots of tank topics up....

SmalltalkJava · February 2016

DPS wins all Day every Day

I think that a lot of people like to kill things quickly

Artjuh90 · February 2016

Other: Please Explain

SmalltalkJava wrote: »

I think that a lot of people like to kill things quickly

not totally true do just look at other MMO's ;ike GW2 and WoW there are enough tanks there. especially if you compair the ratio with eso

altemriel · February 2016

when talking about Undaunted Dailies, the silver ones, you can do all with only 3x dps and 1 healer. I don`t know about gold ones. I heard, that for example White Gold Tower is hard on gold, so there I guess you would need a tank...

and PVP, I have seen some videos on youtube about tanks, that had huge amount of health and still could do some damage too. so depends on your skill build and gear. and also as every class, one has to learn to play it.

Maverick827 · February 2016

Nerf to Stam Regen While Blocking

Tanks have never been very valuable in this game. The only time I found an actual tank spec to matter was when running with pugs. Me and my healer friend could hold bad DPS groups together because, shockingly, the trinity design that has worked for decades is still a really good idea!

ESO is caught in between old and new MMO design, with "old" meaning WoW-era theme park and "new" meaning an attempt to throw back to even older MMOs that ultimately never works.

I'm going to steal this from someone else:

• "Sandbox" just means "we were too cheap to write any content."
• "Action combat" just moves the difficulty from knowing which of a large library of abilities to use when, to correctly aiming the three abilities you spam endlessly.
• "Free" to play just means that developers spend their time on making it annoying to not buy cash shop items, rather than on making a game that you'll enjoy continuing to play.
• And, yes, "no trinity" just means that groups don't actually function as groups, they're just 4-6 people soloing next to one another.

All of this fits ESO to a T, though I suppose GW2 might be an even more egregious example.

Wing · February 2016

DPS wins all Day every Day

Kelleton wrote: »

because tanks by definition take longer to kill something - the faster you kill something the faster you can move on to the next objective

this, it just takes to long to solo play a tank.

Soriana · February 2016

DPS wins all Day every Day

kurioskurion wrote: »

There is so much responsibility on tanks. So I'm so hesitant to try it. I just want to play and have fun. Killing stuff helps me do that.

There is a tremendous amount of responsibility on tanks but, once you learn the mechanics and learn your role, there is a tremendous amount of fun to be had playing a tank. Going in first, smacking the biggest, baddest guy in the room right across the mouth, and then keeping him off your groupies so they can make him dead. That's the good stuff right there!!

driosketch · February 2016

I have a junior tank alt I was pretty close to deleting. I gave the character another chance, in PvP of all places, and actually found it to be an interesting experience. I don't run dungeons as a tank though, because I don't want a tank's responsibility. I'm more a healer type, and that's what I run.

I really don't think the game was ever built around having a dedicated tank. All classes have a means of high survivability, and some content is literally a dps race. (And if some of them didn't go squishy for their build, healers would be out of a job too.) Changes haven't so much destroyed tanks, they've just made them harder for the average player to get into. So when you lose tanks, there isn't a new supply to replace them.

Robotmafia · February 2016

Other: Please Explain

LegendaryNinja wrote: »

Robotmafia wrote: »

i have a dps, tank and healer.. enjoy all 3 roles... i dont think the issue is tanking in the game... in my expirience tanks have always been the hardest to find in any mmo... people like to dps some like to heal and few like to tank... iv also gotten the feeling that some people feel tanking is a larger responsibility and you have to know the mechanics better... which can be true and a reason why people dont choose to be a tank... if i were new to mmos i certainly wouldnt choose to be a tank... even now my first choice was dps then i level a healer then a tank... i guess it can also kind of an ungreatful role... if everything goes well people say the dps was good or the healing... the praise rarely goes to the tank bc people just expect a tank to tank...

sorry for the rambling lol... i personally enjoy tanking in this game and wouldnt blame the game itself for tanks being hard to find but the general nature of the role and its popularity through out mmos

I loved Tanking in FF 14ARR, Tanks had incentives when Tanking. MOre loot, special rewards and things like that.

this totally supports my theory that tanking is for many people an unatractive role.. they had to give you incentives and special rewards... so tanking must have been very unpopular if they went as far as giving you bonus stuff for it

code65536 · February 2016

Other: Please Explain

Speaking a tank... I used to think that tanks are super-rare, which is why I added a gear-swap tank spec to my main so I could do dungeons more easily. And, for a while, pretty much all I did was tank because nobody was looking for a DPS--they all wanted tanks, and I'd run dungeons multiple times a day as a tank.

This was back when I mainly PUGed or did things with people on my contacts list. Back before I joined PvE guilds.

Now that I'm in a couple of end-game PvE guilds, I'm actually playing as DPS more often than I play as tank because there are a lot of other people able and willing to tank. They just don't PUG much.

So, why is this? I have a few theories/thoughts...

1) Yes, the stam regen change did make tanking harder. No, it's not an issue for me or for most other tanks that I know. Good tanks grumbled at first, but adapted and ultimately shrugged off the change. But for less seasoned tanks, the change likely had more impact, thus why I see a shortage of PUG tanks, but not one of guild tanks.

2) Tanking in general can be intimidating. You're told that you're supposed to take hits from the toughest enemies and survive. When I first started the game, I had the mindset that tanks and healers required special skill, and that DPS have the easiest job. And I was rather scared when I first started tanking. And I suspect that many people share that kind of misconception. It doesn't help that a bad tank or bad healer is more readily apparent than a bad DPS since dying and losing aggro are pretty obvious things. (RIP, GroupDamage.) I think most people roll DPS simply because it has no special job (even though a good DPS requires just as much skill--if not more--as a good tank).

3) Tanking and healing are support roles. You don't taunt or heal enemies to victory. You win by killing, and the tank and healer's jobs, ultimately, are to keep the DPS alive while they do the killing. This isn't always a popular view among the tanking community, but it's the stark reality, in this game and in all other games: the DPS is, inherently the main role. This has repercussions when it comes to doing solo content, including questing and delving. And, yes, Maelstrom. I do not view the "tanks can't do Maelstrom" complaints as valid because you're not supposed to! It's a group support role--what on earth are you supposed to support in solo play? Full tanks that lack DPS specs struggle when it comes to questing, delves, and all other solo content, not just Maelstrom. We just don't hear about it because that sort of solo content has been nerfed so far into the ground that it poses no challenge to anyone. A full tank without a DPS spec is simply boring and pointless outside of group content and is thus unattractive to many people. A lot of the tanks that I know are either gear-swap tanks like me (switching between full DPS or full tanking with a change of gear and bars) or have other characters that they play most of the time, letting their tank character out of the barn only when a tank is needed. These people tend to not PUG as a tank.

4) Because tanks are support roles, PUGing is riskier for tanks than for DPS. Even a stellar tank usually can't carry a group if the DPS is horrible (unless it's a nightblade saptank), but a good DPS might be able to carry the group.

As for what can be done about it? Not much, really. It's really just the inherent nature of tanking that tanking isn't as popular of a role. The change to stamina regen was annoying, but mostly affected PUG tanking from what I can tell.

M_TeK_9 · February 2016

I survive in PVP and kill mofo's as a tank ALL the time. If you're a stam tank there no reason why you cant swap to an agility set, pump some crit pots and buff with some major / minor brutality and own people.

Hope499 · February 2016

DPS wins all Day every Day

Everything should be fairly simple without a tank except VERY certain end game content.

WGT, Prison, Trails, VDSA

Other than that, everything should be fairly easy without a tank.

M_TeK_9 · February 2016

Hope499 wrote: »

Everything should be fairly simple without a tank except VERY certain end game content.

WGT, Prison, Trails, VDSA

Other than that, everything should be fairly easy without a tank.

There. Fixed it for you.

Hope499 · February 2016

DPS wins all Day every Day

M_TeK_9 wrote: »

Hope499 wrote: »

Everything should be fairly simple without a tank except VERY certain end game content.

WGT, Prison, Trails, VDSA

Other than that, everything should be fairly easy without a tank.

There. Fixed it for you.

Hhahah, fair enough, 3dps and a healer can run wgt now, they are not even needed for that these days.

LegendaryNinja · February 2016

hrothbern wrote: »

The market for tanks is not big........
and getting smaller and smaller with the recent patches...

ZOS is designing the group content....
and therefore ZOS is fundamentally responsible for the lack of demand for tanks !!!
not nitty gritty emote stuff between players
not zero stamina recovery during blocking
ZOS developed the game so that tanks are hardly needed !!!

In PVP Heavy Armor is penetrated from here to Oblivion

It is getting time that the devs realise that there comes a moment that everybody gets so used to performing without tanks,

that everybody adapts to playing without tanks

(except for trials)

@hrothbern Thanks for the things you have pointed out

LegendaryNinja · February 2016

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

The only thing a true tank is useful for in ESO right now is to do Trials and some dungeons. Beyond that, Dps characters are simply better at farming (killing mobs faster for greater CP rewards, money, inventory, etc). DPS characters get a way better kill counter in pvp because the balance of the game is far better for a DPS role character than anything else. The stamina regeneration nerf is still a *** choice on ZoS part. I think most of us could stomach a lowering of regeneration, but by killing regeneration altogether they have destroyed multiple builds outright. I'm sure a lot of Bosmer tank players out there are pretty pissed that their 30% stamina regen goes 100% into the toliet for 4 seconds if they block. DPS doesn't have any problem with losing stamina regeneration if they fire an attack. No one loses magica regeneration when tossing up a Hardened Ward. Dodge rolling gets progressively more expensive but you aren't losing 100% of regeneration for 4 seconds. In short they have ruined blocking apart from a few very niche builds, and have fundamentally made shield tanking (block) a pointless exercise. The right mouse key is not really worth using in 99% of cases, and I can hardly see how that should have been their intent.

I'm also not happy with Heavy Armor as well.

Thanks @dodgehopper_ESO, i totally agree with your statement.

NewBlacksmurf · February 2016

Other: Please Explain

In context to the topic....
Tanks are useless and pointless for solo anything, or at times PvP

Now groups for PvE content, I do believe that more than less, a tank is appreciated. Some argue that they aren't required but I will say....true if other can take a few hits and stay alive in a group of balanced characters who assist one another instead of playing strict roles.

myrrrorb14_ESO · February 2016

Nerf to Stam Regen While Blocking

To be honest the whole 3DPS and a healer can be shortened to 4 DPS for a lot of content.

Lucky28 · February 2016

Main reason i don't play a tank is because DPS is just more versatile as opposed to tanks. the main thing that has kept me from making a tank character is the idea that i would have to re-spec my character on a regular basis, which doesn't thrill me, there are other things i'd rather spend my gold on.

anitajoneb17_ESO · February 2016

It's too hard to play as a Tank

Hope499 wrote: »

M_TeK_9 wrote: »

Hope499 wrote: »

Everything should be fairly simple without a tank except VERY certain end game content.

WGT, Prison, Trails, VDSA

Other than that, everything should be fairly easy without a tank.

There. Fixed it for you.

Hhahah, fair enough, 3dps and a healer can run wgt now, they are not even needed for that these days.

I think Molag Kena is a real b*tch when she's not tanked properly. I'd consider vWGT one of the dungeons where a tank is extremely useful (if not mandatory).

.