The neverending Nightmare of an ESO Tank

LegendaryNinja
LegendaryNinja
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Hi Fellow ESO players. Legendary Ninja here today to talk about Different Issues and concerns when it comes to Tanking, Damage mitigation, Solo Play, PVP, and Heavy Armor. Of course it would be interesting to see some acknowledgement by the ESO devs.

Goal:

My goal in this post is to open the eyes of the readers to different game mechanics which while not bad are not the optimal solution in order to understand the complete state of a life as a tank in ESO today.

Tanking:

I started playing ESO as a DPS on PC during Beta, I remember my first character being a Breton DragonKnight. Still remember the days where I knew nothing about ESO and game mechanics. I sticked to being a DPS during my PC game experience. When the game got released on the PS4 I stopped playing on PC and forgot to do my character transfer (I had 95 champion points at the time). Knowing the mechanics of the game on consoles made me more effective in leveling my character. Eventually I was introduced to the wonders of tanking, it was a wonderful discovery, i was so amazed of the satisfaction it brought. I finally found my place in ESO, I knew from there on out it was what I would be focusing on.

In my quest to try to prove everyone wrong, I was able to build a dark elf magic vampire templar tank and a redguard stamina dk tank. Even with the nerf to blocking It was still possible to tank in ESO.

Current Issues in Tanking:

1. Block Cost and No stamina Regen for Blocking, the reason why it was nerfed and possible solutions:

Cause: This nerf was implemented because it was possible for characters with very high stamina regen to block forever and not die in PVP(or be incredibly hard to kill). Generally this would be done even with characters that had medium armor. So it was possible to have a lot of damage output and high damage mitigation at the same time.
Issue: Even if still possible to block effectively while tanking via block cost reduction strategies, the sacrifices that that takes on an already barebones heavy armor passives and tanking overall makes tanks weaker and also discourages players from becoming tanks, hence the super long group finder queues for DPS characters.
Solution: My proposal is the following; to increase the cost of blocking first Medium armor, then a little bit less for Light Armor, this would be calculated per piece of armor. Additionally to revert the change in stam regen while blocking.
Heavy: Same cost
Medium: around 8 percent additional block cost per piece of Medium armor equipped
Light: around 4 percent additional block cost per piece of Light Armor equipped.
This way there is a balance of stam regen with increased cost with Light and Medium armor vs Reduced cost and stam regen with Heavy armor.

2. Damage mitigation: Current Cap is 50% (not to be confused with Armor Cap)

Damage mitigation is currently set at 50% of the raw damage, this includes ultimates, passives, and armor; everything together. This is a problem.
While we don't want to have characters that are invulnerable to damage because of the current meta in ESO it's impossible to have meaningful tanks in PVP and Maelstrom for example. Damage mitigation Cap while wearing 5 pieces of Heavy armor ONLY should be raised to 70%.

Reasoning:
In PVP everyone is running crit builds specially due to the nerf to damage, this allows those builds to output about as much non crit damage as before the nerf currently. Also Maelstrom for example is a solo trial designed specifically for DPS builds (Do the devs think everyone is a dps?) Even at 50% damage mitigation a crit Wrecking Blow even while blocking can do around 8-9k damage and while almost at armor cap ((33000 at VR 14, maybe 35000 at VR 16)(The VR 16 Armor Cap has not been confirmed yet)). Heavy Armor is supposed to be that, Tanky, tougher to kill; at the cost of reduced damage output because you are focusing on defenses.
Solution: Remove the current Armor Value and replace them with a raw damage reduction percentages, Spell Damage reduction and Physical Damage reduction. Replace Spell and Armor Resistance Penetration with raw values as well. This would help streamline damage reduction overall and then it will become easier to implement. It's simpler that it sounds. Then Buff Heavy Armor to provide a higher percentage of Damage mitigation. While also improving most of the Heavy armor passives.

3. Taunts and collision detection in PVP

Currently you cannot tount a player in PVP, if this is allowed it would make tactical fights, where Tanks in PVP would be needed, also it would help control the Zerging in PVP, therefore reduced lag. With collision detection in Cyrodiil ONLY it would make defending keeps more engaging and structured, this would also help diversify Cyrodiil in branching players into proper DPS, healers, and Tanks. The way is supposed to be.

Taunt Implementation:
A player that would be taunted only for a few seconds(maybe half of the PvE duration) would see the player that taunted them automatically lock on, so that the player would know. The player being taunted would also appropriately be granted CC immunity, that way a tank would not be able to taunt and CC the same time. A tank would need to choose appropriately. Also in PVP when taunting an enemy player then can't taunt another player in 4 seconds. This means even the tank can be taunted, so it would be really interesting to see in PVP. This way not everyone in Cyrodiil is a DPS or Healer.

Collision Detection in Cyrodiil ONLY:
Cyrodiil would be better this way making players have to go through tanky characters first in order to take a keep. Similar how to other games implement this.

4. A way for tanks to obtain Maelstrom Master weapons
Pretty much other people have touched on this subject, that Maelstrom Arena is a DPS race. This should be true for DPS characters, since they should have less damage mitigation. ESO should be a game in which solo content should be played as a healer, tank, or dps; however the player desires without being forced into selecting a certain kind of playstyle, this is an insult to players who love to and dedicate their entire builds to play as Tanks or Healers. Right now Maelstrom Arena is being completed by self healing high end DPS characters BECAUSE IS THE ONLY WAY.

This is a bad thing, because the mobs in this "SOLO" instance are more powerful that VETERAN DUNGEON BOSSES. It's impossible to mitigate that damage so a Tank stands absolutely no chance of completing it. That's all that needs to be said.

And this is my never ending Tank Nightmare. Would ESO incentivize players to Tank?, can Tanks be useful in PVP?, I'm I one of the few remaining Tanks in ESO? Please share your thoughts and comments below. There will be another post with a Poll shortly. Until next time.
  • Slappah
    Slappah
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    I'm indifferent about collision detection in cyrodiil. I can see both sides of it.
    Idk how things work but I think it would probably not help the lag cause whatsoever, in fact it would probably make it worse. Again though, Idk how stuff like that works so it might have no effect on lag.

    I do agree with your other concerns, like being a tank for maelstrom arena and solo play, even if I am still a noob who only just hit v2 recently, I can see how that's a cause for concern and how it can be irritable and disheartening.
  • Yolokin_Swagonborn
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    I taunt people in PvP all the time. Not even a tank.
  • LegendaryNinja
    LegendaryNinja
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    Slappah wrote: »
    I'm indifferent about collision detection in cyrodiil. I can see both sides of it.
    Idk how things work but I think it would probably not help the lag cause whatsoever, in fact it would probably make it worse. Again though, Idk how stuff like that works so it might have no effect on lag.

    I do agree with your other concerns, like being a tank for maelstrom arena and solo play, even if I am still a noob who only just hit v2 recently, I can see how that's a cause for concern and how it can be irritable and disheartening.

    Thanks for reading my long post. :) But I understand the potential for abuse with collision detection, Maybe the Nightblades Cloak should be able to bypass this, or something similar. I still believe it's a good mechanic, but only if implemented the right way. With collision detection you won't be able to ball up like what's happening now.
  • LegendaryNinja
    LegendaryNinja
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    I taunt people in PvP all the time. Not even a tank.

    lol, that is the secret taunt, only a good tank know it.
  • Garwulf
    Garwulf
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    Pointless suggesting or complaining . What ever is done will soon be nerfed and nerfed again as the Seals in our community cry NERF, NERF, NERF.

    What really surprises me about this game and I am not easily surprised, is how useless is Heavy Armour.
    When you consider a traditional European Knight in full armour was carrying less weight than a modern Foot Soldier you get some idea of why before the advent of firearms they were really 'battle tanks' able to take punishment and deal it out in 'droves'. In ESO a heavy armoured character is a real house cat .... Limited damage and not really a punishment taker. Heavy Armour should really be called Fools Armour as you are essentially a fool to put it on your character.
    Edited by Garwulf on February 2, 2016 8:01AM
  • LegendaryNinja
    LegendaryNinja
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    Garwulf wrote: »
    Pointless suggesting or complaining . What ever is done will soon be nerfed and nerfed again as the Seals in our community cry NERF, NERF, NERF.

    What really surprises me about this game and I am not easily surprised, is how useless is Heavy Armour.
    When you consider a traditional European Knight in full armour was carrying less weight than a modern Foot Soldier you get some idea of why before the advent of firearms they were really 'battle tanks' able to take punishment and deal it out in 'droves'. In ESO a heavy armoured character is a real *** .... Limited damage and not really a punishment taker. Heavy Armour should really be called Fools Armour as you are essentially a fool to put it on your character.

    Good Point there, With Heavy Armor you are supposed to trade damage output for tankiness, but in the game game currently what are we trading right now? Damage output for ???
  • Rylana
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    I taunt people in PvP all the time. Not even a tank.

    lol, that is the secret taunt, only a good tank know it.

    resto bar left click, space space, a d a d a d, space....

    Sorta like that >_> The moar hopping the better.
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  • Zorgon_The_Revenged
    Zorgon_The_Revenged
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    I can't say I agree with anything you said, tanking with the removal of stam regen didn't kill tanking, it just made it more interesting and brought back the resource management I enjoyed when I first started tanking.

    A quote

    "A tank (also known as a meat shield) is a style of character in gaming, often associated with a character class. A common convention in real-time strategy games, role-playing games, fighting games, multiplayer online battle arenas and MUDs, tanks redirect enemy attacks or attention toward themselves in order to protect other characters or units. Since this role often requires them to suffer large amounts of damage, they rely on large amounts of vitality or armor, healing by other party members, evasiveness and misdirection, or self regeneration"

    In a solo arena you only have yourself to protect, you may be "tanky" but you are not really a "tank" anymore. Please try a solo arena as a "meat shield" with not enough dps to kill a boss anytime this year, and clearly you prefer being a "dead-meat shield".
    I taunt people in PvP all the time. Not even a tank.

    lol, that is the secret taunt, only a good tank know it.

    Is this secret taunt called Breath of Life? :smile:
    Edited by Zorgon_The_Revenged on February 2, 2016 8:20AM
  • Flak
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    Tanking is still very easy, even with bad armor it's still no problem to permablock, especially as a DK. For Maelstrom ok I see it's hard in tank gear to finish it, but I think that's good, it's solo and everybody needs to change their build abit.

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  • Aimora
    Aimora
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    I only just discovered tanking and didn't know how much I would love doing it - the no stamina regen is a pain but I mostly group with a Templar healer so not really a problem. (It would be nice if they reduced it to 25/50% though rather than 0% or made it so that PvP changes remained in Cyrodiil - but hayho we adapt :P)
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  • LegendaryNinja
    LegendaryNinja
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    Flak wrote: »
    Tanking is still very easy, even with bad armor it's still no problem to permablock, especially as a DK. For Maelstrom ok I see it's hard in tank gear to finish it, but I think that's good, it's solo and everybody needs to change their build abit.

    Meaning go from a tank setup to DPS. Not that is not possible, but my underlying topic is that you should not have to forced into playing the game a specific way. Solo content should always be achievable in all three roles, and this is from multiple mmos. They always make their solo content so that you can either 1. Do high damage and kill things quickly(DPS), 2. Do low damage and self heal(Healer) 3.Do low damage and take considerably low damage(Tank).
  • helediron
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    While resource management from block stam nerf might be interesting to a tank, it made tanks uninteresting to groups. It reduced the usefulness of tanks to only few endgame places. Still after half year I consider the block stam nerf as one of the worst changes in this game. What it does is that in the long run in PvE everybody becomes BYOH DPS.
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  • LegendaryNinja
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    helediron wrote: »
    While resource management from block stam nerf might be interesting to a tank, it made tanks uninteresting to groups. It reduced the usefulness of tanks to only few endgame places. Still after half year I consider the block stam nerf as one of the worst changes in this game. What it does is that in the long run in PvE everybody becomes BYOH DPS.

    good point
  • bountyspiter
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    3. Taunts and collision detection in PVP

    Currently you cannot tount a player in PVP, if this is allowed it would make tactical fights, where Tanks in PVP would be needed, also it would help control the Zerging in PVP, therefore reduced lag. With collision detection in Cyrodiil ONLY it would make defending keeps more engaging and structured, this would also help diversify Cyrodiil in branching players into proper DPS, healers, and Tanks. The way is supposed to be.

    Taunt Implementation:
    A player that would be taunted only for a few seconds(maybe half of the PvE duration) would see the player that taunted them automatically lock on, so that the player would know. The player being taunted would also appropriately be granted CC immunity, that way a tank would not be able to taunt and CC the same time. A tank would need to choose appropriately. Also in PVP when taunting an enemy player then can't taunt another player in 4 seconds. This means even the tank can be taunted, so it would be really interesting to see in PVP. This way not everyone in Cyrodiil is a DPS or Healer.

    Collision Detection in Cyrodiil ONLY:
    Cyrodiil would be better this way making players have to go through tanky characters first in order to take a keep. Similar how to other games implement this.

    taunting players should really happen. it would definately be the cure to 40+ people zerging. imagine 15 tanky players around the zerg taunting 15 people out of their zerg safety. half the zerg will be out of stamina for taunt cc break or even better dead before they get in the train safe zone again. BYE BYE LAG

    but the collision thing is a totaly different story. imagine a siege. and an organised group defending the keep. so you have 30+ organised people going at the other side of the keep, getting out of combat and changing their builds to full tanks. then have them run back to the breah forming a non-penetrable wall for any reason with any weapons having 5-10 healers behind them, healing, purging, barriering them...they can seriously stay there blocking the breach for the whole day...its gonna be the persians trying to go through thermopyles all over again. NOT GOOD.
  • DKsUnite
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    See the thing about collision detection in PvP - the servers cant handle 40 players on screen. CD taxes the servers even more so we would legit be only allowed to do 3v3s or face the game lagging...

    Taunts in pvp are never going to happen and there is no reason for them to happen. You cant force someone in pvp to do something. That said, there are ways to grab the attention of the pug armies rolling around and its quite easy for them to focus you so pvp taunts are unncessary.
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  • LegendaryNinja
    LegendaryNinja
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    3. Taunts and collision detection in PVP

    Currently you cannot tount a player in PVP, if this is allowed it would make tactical fights, where Tanks in PVP would be needed, also it would help control the Zerging in PVP, therefore reduced lag. With collision detection in Cyrodiil ONLY it would make defending keeps more engaging and structured, this would also help diversify Cyrodiil in branching players into proper DPS, healers, and Tanks. The way is supposed to be.

    Taunt Implementation:
    A player that would be taunted only for a few seconds(maybe half of the PvE duration) would see the player that taunted them automatically lock on, so that the player would know. The player being taunted would also appropriately be granted CC immunity, that way a tank would not be able to taunt and CC the same time. A tank would need to choose appropriately. Also in PVP when taunting an enemy player then can't taunt another player in 4 seconds. This means even the tank can be taunted, so it would be really interesting to see in PVP. This way not everyone in Cyrodiil is a DPS or Healer.

    Collision Detection in Cyrodiil ONLY:
    Cyrodiil would be better this way making players have to go through tanky characters first in order to take a keep. Similar how to other games implement this.

    taunting players should really happen. it would definately be the cure to 40+ people zerging. imagine 15 tanky players around the zerg taunting 15 people out of their zerg safety. half the zerg will be out of stamina for taunt cc break or even better dead before they get in the train safe zone again. BYE BYE LAG

    but the collision thing is a totaly different story. imagine a siege. and an organised group defending the keep. so you have 30+ organised people going at the other side of the keep, getting out of combat and changing their builds to full tanks. then have them run back to the breah forming a non-penetrable wall for any reason with any weapons having 5-10 healers behind them, healing, purging, barriering them...they can seriously stay there blocking the breach for the whole day...its gonna be the persians trying to go through thermopyles all over again. NOT GOOD.

    It depends, a Thin shield is not deep and easy to penetrate vs a dedicated shield in certain locations. And the characters have to be tanky also, and of course after they offer something to counter armor penetration stacking.
  • Kippesnikke
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    interesting story. but no. you are not the last tank in ESO ><
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  • LegendaryNinja
    LegendaryNinja
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    interesting story. but no. you are not the last tank in ESO ><

    Yes, hope is not yet all lost. Time to rise again, my ESO Tanks!
  • Gonza
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    I think that you have a very old idea of a tank. I remember when i was a tank in WoW, it was so boring use your taunt every 15 secs and thats all. Automatic parry or avoid.

    About the first point: The problem here is that you want to rise your shield and stay in that pose all the fight. Dont you think that is boring? Instead, you have to cc, block only certain attacks and use fully heavy attacks so you will recover stamina. Thats all, except in the trials xd, mantikora hits like a truck so you have to perma block.

    About the second point: I think that the damage mitigation issue is totally connected with first point. When you get out of stamina you will receive all the attacks without being able to block the important ones, so the first you think is: why im dying?!
    Again, the solution here is know which attack block or not. When you dont have to block use your fully heavy attacks.

    Third point: A taunt in pvp is totally a learn 2 play issue. Did you see any tank in pvp videos? Scorpiao has a tremendous tank build. So if you cant "taunt" people with ransack. How will you force people to attack you? People are stupid and will attack you always if you are in front of them, plus you can use some cc and thats all.

    Finally, it took me like one month to beat vMA. it isnt a DPS race. I play as Stamina DK and i cant beat even the first stage if i use my dps build. vMA is about survivabilty.

    You should be happy, a Tank in ESO it isnt a mindless rock that use a taunt every 15 seconds. Is that what you want to be?

    Good luck and have fun!
    Edited by Gonza on February 2, 2016 9:41AM
    Play for fun!
  • eliisra
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    In all fairness, almost everyone needs to change their build for vMA. Saying that you're a tank or healer, is no excuse.

    Everyone is forced to create a strong solo/vma build, if they want to beat it. That includes changing CP, mundus, morphs, gears, in some cases attributes and even leveling some new skills up.

    This game really needs dual spec's :dizzy:

    About tanks, I definitely like to see them more useful. Meta in both PvP/PvE has changed into full burst. Tanks have been nerfed while dps got buffed.

    Running dungeon without tanks is suddenly normalized. Since 1.6 and onwards dps has been going up. Bosses are dead before anyone takes actual dmg. Only reason the block nerf doesn't matter in PvE, is because of how buffed dps is, stuff is dead before your stamina pool even starts dipping.

    If they want to keep tanks in this game, they better do something.
  • couchkyle25_ESO
    couchkyle25_ESO
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    eliisra wrote: »
    In all fairness, almost everyone needs to change their build for vMA. Saying that you're a tank or healer, is no excuse.

    Everyone is forced to create a strong solo/vma build, if they want to beat it. That includes changing CP, mundus, morphs, gears, in some cases attributes and even leveling some new skills up.

    This game really needs dual spec's :dizzy:

    About tanks, I definitely like to see them more useful. Meta in both PvP/PvE has changed into full burst. Tanks have been nerfed while dps got buffed.

    Running dungeon without tanks is suddenly normalized. Since 1.6 and onwards dps has been going up. Bosses are dead before anyone takes actual dmg. Only reason the block nerf doesn't matter in PvE, is because of how buffed dps is, stuff is dead before your stamina pool even starts dipping.

    If they want to keep tanks in this game, they better do something.

    They clearly don't, their entire design philosophy makes that clear.
  • code65536
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    I tank a lot--I tank more often than I DPS--so I'd like to chime in here...

    Block cost and stam regen: Their solution to zero out regen was rather ham-fisted, IMO, for two reasons. First, each block resets the timer instead of pausing it. If you need to block more frequently than every two seconds, you are effectively perma-blocking, as far as the regen penalty is concerned. This doesn't introduce "smart blocking"--it just reinforces alternate ways to maintain stamina.

    Second, zeroing out regen makes regen essentially useless. It doesn't matter how high or low your regen is, because 0% if a high number is the same as 0% of a low number. If they had reduced it to, say, 25% regen, then regen stats would still matter somewhat, and that Endurance set would seem less like a joke.

    Mitigation cap: You can mitigate more than 50% damage. Armor mitigation is capped at 50%, but you can mitigate far more than that with blocking, Minor Maim, ultimates, etc.

    PvP: I disagree with PvP taunting. PvE tanking relies on the fact that PvE enemies are controlled by dumb AIs. To me, tanking in general is a PvE thing, and I think the idea of a PvP taunt is silly. That having been said, I do like to use sword-and-board in PvP (with light armor) to be tankier so that I can survive longer, but I don't think taunts should ever be a thing in PvP.

    Maelstrom/solo: I do not share the complaints that Maelstrom is "DPS-heavy". First, whether you like it or not, tanks and healers are, by definition, support roles. The main role of any game (not just ESO) is, has been, and always will be the DPS. Because ultimately, you win by killing the enemy. You don't win through taunting or through healing--you win through killing. The job of the healer and the tank are to keep people alive while they do the killing.

    Second, all builds need to adapt. You can't go in with a glass cannon Sanctum DPS build. You need to be able to sustain, survive and heal yourself, and even DPS need to adapt. Admittedly, not as much, but everyone does. I go into Maelstrom with different gear (need more health than my usual DPS setup) and different bars.

    Third, I really don't think that tanks should be tank-only. Tanks are inherently a group support role. It makes no sense for someone to wander around solo areas--whether it's Maelstrom or whether it's a delve that you're soloing for the daily--in a full tank setup. What on earth are you supporting? It's not hard to switch roles with just a change of gear and bars. My main, for example, carries five different gear sets on her: three light armor DPS sets that I swap between depending on the situation (two for PvE and one for PvP), a heavy armor tank set, and a medium armor non-combat thievery/stealth set, and I can, with just a swap of gears and bars, go from a tank that can tank any and all of the 4-man content in the game to a DPS that can pull 20K single-target. It makes no sense for me to be in my tank gear when I'm not tanking, just as it makes no sense for a fireman to still be wearing that stifling and bulky suit if they're not fighting a fire.

    And, yes, I really like the Planar Inhibitor in vWGT because it forces tanks entrenched in that tanks-should-only-tank mindset to be more than a one-trick pony.

    "Running dungeon without tanks is suddenly normalized.": Yes, you can run dungeons (particularly nonvet dungeons) without a tank. But it's an unpleasant experience. I'm in a guild where it seems that 20K single-target DPS is the norm and pledges are usually nukefests. But, despite that, people still almost always run with a tank, and they still ask for tanks, even for dungeons like vet Spindle. I--and most people I know--wouldn't run a vet dungeon tankless unless we had no other choice and simply could not find a tank (which, admittedly, is usually not a problem in these kinds of guilds: most members have multiple VR16 characters, and many members have at least one alt who can tank). We're all accustomed to running with tanks, and it's hard to do high DPS when you also have to worry about things like boss aggro and staying alive with under 17K health.
    Edited by code65536 on February 2, 2016 11:34AM
    Nightfighters ― PC/NA and PC/EU

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  • M_TeK_9
    M_TeK_9
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    Flak wrote: »
    Tanking is still very easy, even with bad armor it's still no problem to permablock, especially as a DK. For Maelstrom ok I see it's hard in tank gear to finish it, but I think that's good, it's solo and everybody needs to change their build abit.

    So I have to spend 15k respeccing, changing gear and mundas stone every time I want to run the solo content?

    Pass.
  • Personofsecrets
    Personofsecrets
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    Thank you for this legendary ninja.
  • Artjuh90
    Artjuh90
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    well i disagree with light armor having less cost of blocking then a medium armor. and how will you calculate it though. most people mix 5/2 or 5/1/1 with undaunted. as for the % damage mitigraded the problem occurs that heavy armor doesn't scale with you level anymore because it's a set %. it's either totally useless early game or the % crunch to numbers which are to high. the taunt though we already have 2 taunts in the game, ransack and inner fire/beast. not sure how a taunt would work in this game given the fact that you don't have auto attacks like in MOBA's liek Dota and LoL
  • NoMoreChillies
    NoMoreChillies
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    ESO has a shortage of tanks

    ZOS show tanks some love so ppl will want to play them
    Insulting people on the internet is cowardly.
  • Kippesnikke
    Kippesnikke
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    ESO has a shortage of tanks

    ZOS show tanks some love so ppl will want to play them

    why. now the boys are being seperated from the man;)
    PC-EU-EP
    Northborn DK tank
    Hodor
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    vMoL cleared on VR16 #World1st
    Worlds #1 vMoL speed run [VR16]
  • Jumper45
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    @LegendaryNinja

    A lot of heavy armor talk here from you and I disagree with most of this, the reason being is not all tanks wear heavy armor.

    Sorc tanks in light armor using magic to mitigate damage.

    Night blades tank in medium or light armor using shadow and guile to mitigate damage.

    Only DK and Templar tanks generally use heavy armor for tanking.

    ( Does this mean the others cannot use heavy? No they can. )

    Does Heavy armor offer a lot of mitigation passives? Yes. But so does a sorc spamming ward or a night blade using shadow for armor. All 4 classes need to block at times from huge attacks.

    Personally I think PVP tanking needs to follow what rift was doing. Tanking abilities had different effects while in pvp like taunt for example would grip the target towards you. A lot of harasser abilities and general tankyness. This left a lot of options for a tank to function in pvp without just going full dps.

    Also taking an idea from WOW using Vengeance:
    Vengeance: This is a mechanic to ensure that tank damage (and therefore threat) doesn't fall behind as damage-dealing classes improve their gear during the course of the expansion/game. All tanking specs will have Vengeance as their second talent tree passive bonus. Whenever a tank gets hit, Vengeance will give them a stacking attack power buff equal to 5% of the damage done, up to a maximum of 10% of the character's un-buffed health. ( While this was mainly used for agro. It of course has the side effect of raising your dps by tanking thus allowing you to understand it would benefit you to take a tank and not just another DPS and thus not trivializing the tank role.)

    The word "adapt" is getting tired use out of ESO. Adapting to a situation is good well and fine. But you should not have to adapt every time it rains or the sun is out which is what it seems like in ESO over the past year or so. Be aware that it is poor steps taken in the first place that is forcing this "adaptation"...
    “All right, I've been thinking, when life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade! Make life take the lemons back! Get mad! I don't want your damn lemons! What am I supposed to do with these? Demand to see life's manager!
    Make life rue the day it thought it could give Cave Johnson lemons! Do you know who I am? I'm the man whose gonna burn your house down - with the lemons!” (Portal 2)


    17 Years MMORPG Experience healing and I still havn't figured out why people stand in red circles.
  • WalkingLegacy
    WalkingLegacy
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    Taunts should reduce the damage output of your target in PvP, not try and redirect your character onto the tank - imagine the nightmare the servers would be having.
  • J2JMC
    J2JMC
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    The act
    Flak wrote: »
    Tanking is still very easy, even with bad armor it's still no problem to permablock, especially as a DK. For Maelstrom ok I see it's hard in tank gear to finish it, but I think that's good, it's solo and everybody needs to change their build abit.

    Meaning go from a tank setup to DPS. Not that is not possible, but my underlying topic is that you should not have to forced into playing the game a specific way. Solo content should always be achievable in all three roles, and this is from multiple mmos. They always make their solo content so that you can either 1. Do high damage and kill things quickly(DPS), 2. Do low damage and self heal(Healer) 3.Do low damage and take considerably low damage(Tank).

    And herein lies the problem with ESO. The play as you want mentality forces all classes to basically be the same with different animations. People complain about templars not being able to compete with other classes in DPS while being unequivocally the best healers in the game. I personally wouldn't mind nightblades taking a hit to their survivability if it meant they kept the high burst damage and other classes were adjusted accordingly. Class balance revolves around the classes having unique strengths and weakness. Groups are formed so the classes weaknesses can be covered by each other. Class balance is NOT about everyone being able to do anything no matter the circumstance.
    Knee Jerk, L2P, Obtuse, Casual, Entitled, All The Best, unnecessary mention of CoD

    Battle leveling for pve content defeats the idea of progression. Remove CP

    "Apparently the players are more informed than we are"-Richard Lambert

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