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Surprise Attack OP?
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Tryxus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭A suggestion I made in another thread:
How about making the Armor Debuff from SA Stealth only? That it only gets applied if you execute SA from stealth, just like the stun effect it has then.
Same for Ambush then: you only get Major Empower if you stealth attack someone with Ambush, not from regular use/weaving.
I think this way, NB can still weave their attacks without applying buffs at the same time with 1 skill. And they get to keep their ganking abilities, though they'll be forced to choose between lowering armor or powering themselves up.
IMO, I think that would be a good tweak to make those attacks more fair"Stand strong, stay true and shelter all."
Tryxus - Guardian of the Green - Warden - PC/EU4 -
Mumyo✭✭✭✭✭Same Gearsetup on Tempalr and NB
Surprise Attack Instant cast: Major Fracture, Major Resolve, Major Ward, Stuns+off balance out of stealth
Jabs 1,1s Channel: Major Savagery
Balanced?
@ZOS_RichLambert
How about instead of surprise attack OP, change it to, Jabs is under powered?
This doesnt show that he also gets major armor buff1 -
revonine✭✭✭✭A suggestion I made in another thread:
How about making the Armor Debuff from SA Stealth only? That it only gets applied if you execute SA from stealth, just like the stun effect it has then.
It's actually funny because when I started this game I actually thought that's how the armor debuff functioned. When I was about to morph Veiled Strike I saw the stun from stealth Concealed Weapon had and I just assumed Surprise attack debuff functioned the same.
When I actually got to use the skill I was like "wow really?".
I be perfectly fine with doing how you suggested because it is a little much that a spammable instant skill has such a powerful debuff too.
It wouldn't effect PvE NB's much either as the Tank would be using Ransack/Pierce Armor anyway.Edited by revonine on January 27, 2016 7:56AM1 -
SmalltalkJava✭✭✭I wonder if the Reactive armor set combined with Radiant Mage Light would dramatically reduce the damage from a stealthed surprise attack?Edited by SmalltalkJava on January 28, 2016 8:43PM0 -
Zinaroth✭✭✭✭✭
✭Same Gearsetup on Tempalr and NBLOL next time try to do the screenshots with similar gear and without using grim focus for manipulate the numbers hahahaha
You can't see if he is using Grim Focus, and why would he? To further a point? Alcast is the most experienced in stamina builds across all classes in the game in PvE and maybe also in PvP. He is not interested in having one be worse than the other, but in achieving balance. It is no secret that he would like to go back to playing Stamina Templar full time again just like me, but aslong as all other Stamina classes perform way better in PvP and PvE why would he not try and use his knowledge to highlight some areas where the Stamina Templar needs a buff? He never said that NBs should be nerfed, he is just pointing out the imbalance. If you take a minute and actually check his post history and his YouTube channel you will see that he is all about helping people and make guides on various stuff regarding playing all classes as stamina. Give a man credit where credit is due, or crawl back to your console version of the game and let us PC players who actually have the means and knowledge to test stuff speak up about the concerns regarding class balance, instead of just blaming one of the most knowledgeable and helpful players in the game and community, on the subject. No hate intended towards console players, but man does it feel like we're playing completely different games sometimes...4 -
Tankqull✭✭✭✭✭
✭...leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »RAGUNAnoOne wrote: »
Tell that to the BoL, WB, Jab, Overload spammers who press one button to win as well. I on the other hand have to go to stealth, position myself and then go in
Your seriously complaing about templars on a nb?
NO I'm just saying everyone is pressing one button to win. It's funny how you think I was complaining. One guy posted
A generic, "press 1 to kill" button that you're encouraged to use over and over is just poor design.
While practically all classes do it but he chooses to target one class.
My stam dk uses LA-Ransack-Bash with breath and keeps shuffle + rally + volcanic armour up? 1 button win.
My sorc uses curse/det/frag/execute/webs to kill people while keeping shields/surge up.
Nb's ambush + SA. = 3 hit kill.
My templar usually gets 1 attack off before he needs to heal vs a nb. Usually flare into jabs/ radiant/ shards, need to keep channel focus up with purifying ritual so i can actually heal, also toppling when it works it good burst dmg as i can only kill people with burst sadly.
Those people who press 1 button to win are just bad, people who use wb annoy me, stupid high dmg ability with broken cc, broken range and empower and they literally spam it, they don't even execute.
Nb's are a literally 1 button class though.
if you can kill someone with ambush +3 SA you can kill him with invade + 3heroic slashes/ransacks aswell, so what was your point?
when i´m playing my nb i´m using ambush, LA, flying daggers(for the snare with latencys as they are its necessery), SA, SH, and more buffs then i have to do with any other class i have (al 4 btw)
with S&b equiped SA does asmuch dmg as rensack/heroic slash, and i actually prefer HS when using s&B over SA as it provides a farbetter opponents dmg reduction than the measly 5k armor rating for 2sec SA provides in non heavy armor.
Except heroic invade+heroic slash doesn't instantly teleport you on top of your opponent and mini unbreakable stun them every time you use them. Which is a significant difference.
1st the root you refer to as a stun is applied by any gap closer thats nothing unique to ambush
2nd the travel time of invade is compensated by ambushs casting time(as you are nearly never gapclosing on max range), it is not an instant ability like you seem to believe and on top of that the cc aplied by invade is significantly superior to that of ambush...Same Gearsetup on Tempalr and NBLOL next time try to do the screenshots with similar gear and without using grim focus for manipulate the numbers hahahaha
You can't see if he is using Grim Focus, and why would he? To further a point? Alcast is the most experienced in stamina builds across all classes in the game in PvE and maybe also in PvP. He is not interested in having one be worse than the other, but in achieving balance. It is no secret that he would like to go back to playing Stamina Templar full time again just like me, but aslong as all other Stamina classes perform way better in PvP and PvE why would he not try and use his knowledge to highlight some areas where the Stamina Templar needs a buff? He never said that NBs should be nerfed, he is just pointing out the imbalance. If you take a minute and actually check his post history and his YouTube channel you will see that he is all about helping people and make guides on various stuff regarding playing all classes as stamina. Give a man credit where credit is due, or crawl back to your console version of the game and let us PC players who actually have the means and knowledge to test stuff speak up about the concerns regarding class balance, instead of just blaming one of the most knowledgeable and helpful players in the game and community, on the subject. No hate intended towards console players, but man does it feel like we're playing completely different games sometimes...
i can´t judge his motivs but he does have a quite anti NB position through out his last publications. [killing sth in 3sec on his NB is a big nono, but killing someone on his DK within 1sec is perfectly fine is a bit biased...
]
though i do agree that the comparison of SA to jabs shows a disparity in favor of SA in pvp, but not because it is so OP (as alot of other abilities allready mentioned in this thread are on as efficient as SA) but jabs being complete crap.
why does jab apply a snare to the user while WB does not?
if it has to be a channeled ability why not change the dmg distribution frm 4x25% to 40+25+20+15%, that way the first two hits of jab would deal as much dmg as SA but would offer the potential to deal significantly more (as shown allready as well) than SA if it successfully is channeld over its full duration (not even counting burning light procs).
the entire comparison is "unfair" as NBs have been bugfixed and brought to a competetive lvl within the last 3-4 patches, while temps for being the main healer are compeltly neglected and intentionally weakend because of that by ZOS.Edited by Tankqull on January 29, 2016 1:15AMspelling and grammar errors are free to be abused
Sallington wrote: »Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"0 -
I really hope they don't nerf this, it will totally ruin PvE for me. ):I used to be an adventurer like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee...
Khajiit Nightblade- V15
Imperial Templar- V1
Altmer Sorc- Lvl 28
Dunmer Nightblade- Lvl 19 (WIP)1 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SmalltalkJava wrote: »I wonder if the Reactive armor set combined with Radiant Mage Light would dramatically reduce the damage from a stealthed surprise attack?
I believe reactive armor wouldn't make a difference in this case, as it only reduces damage while you are stunned. A stealthed surprise attack lands on a target that isn't stunned yet, so reactive won't work.
It will work on the subsequent attacks of course (until stun expires or is broken). And it is excellent against those unblockable mid-fight combos like fear -> LA+SA+soul harvest1 -
Brrrofski✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »keep in mind, hes only gona get a shot off like that once in a while, thats not gona happen constant.
he can only hit like that from invis and in sneak.
you guys realize hes a glass build and probably take 1 hit to kill him.
Honestly, you couldn't more wrong. With dodge chance, cloak and vigor it can take multiple people qawhile to kill me while I can do a three move bust combo and kill then one by one.
Oh and about stam sorcs, I do great on mine. People sometimes have no clue how to deal with you. I find it a highly effective class. Of course, wrecking blow is crucial to it though.Edited by Brrrofski on January 29, 2016 10:28AM2 -
Strider_Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »i remember people saying in guild chat that they were targetting the nightblades who had anything lower then 28000 hp.
kill them in 2 hits.
thats a glass magicka light armor trash build.
people eat you as a tasty morsel because your too weak.
yeah you hit hard but youll never make it inn fights unless you gank them on thier horse.
you cant stand toe to toe with people in a real fight.
Actually 28k HP is overkill for any build except tanky/bruiser style gameplay.
Every class can survive just about any 1v1 encounter with 25k HP max, if they are played well.
Most off the time you will see especially sorcs and some nightblades even go below the 20k mark since their class defenses (cloak and shields) dont need health to work with.
Another thing to consider is that "toe to toe with people" ( I assume you mean solo fights/duels here) offensive power directly translates to defensive power. If you have your 28k HP opponent constantly defending and healing up you wont run a risk off dieing either, and when your enemy tries to push back you can simply punish with a nice cloak SA.
Against multiple opponents that is even more the case since you need to take out enemies quickly to prevent being overwhelmed. And if you actually meant group fights you wont need that much Hp either since your healers will be covering for you and barriers and healing ward just dont care much about your max HP.
By the way, I believe one off the biggest reasons to play (any) NB is because they are thw best counter against axeploiting stamina DKs with reverb, which are probably the strongest solo specc (for fighting not running)in the entire game right now.
Edit: Interestingly NB is also the best counter to NB if they slot mark.
How are they the best counter against reverberating bash?0 -
Lirkin✭✭✭✭No it is not OP. Please don't change this for PVE if it is changed for PVP.
I know. How about they change all classes to have the exact same skills, armor and weapons in PVP and then there will be no room for Nerf requests. Make it so that you can make different builds of the skills they have but have the same skills available to all. Why because any time things are different someone is going to complain that something that they don't have is over powered. Now that I think about it people will still complain that the skills they want to use for their build aren't as good as the other builds.
NO NERFS0 -
coolermh✭✭✭-MrHeid625
Max Chars:
Magika Sorc AD
Stamina NB AD
Stam DK AD
Magika NB-
Magika Temp-
Stam Warden
Stam Sorc
Mag Warden0 -
Autolycus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Based on tooltips alone (which is not something I advocate comparing usually) I don't think these two skills are unbalanced. It's difficult when comparing just tooltips to determine this, because the concept of balance is subjective by nature.
However, strictly comparing tooltips, I note a few things:
1. The difference in damage alone is:
Jabs damage (single target) = 1388 * 4 (2.40) = 13,325 (note that Jabs does 140% additonal damage to nearest target, all targets behind nearest target take 100% of base damage)
Surprise attack damage (single target) = 9,324
So, comparing strictly on damage, Jabs is stronger.
2. Each ability has a CC component to it, and each one is subject to Break-Free
3. Surprise Attack reduces armor, allowing for increased damage on subsequent attacks. Jabs gives additional crit rating, which also increases damage on subsequent attacks (although the crit boost is generally considered less valuable in PvP, which I note is a valid point).
4. Jabs has a slightly larger range and also does conal aoe damage
5. Surprise Attack is an instant-cast, and costs less than Jabs.
They both offer similar benefits and do similar damage. I note here that similar damage in this context means that if any portion of the Jabs does not connect, be it due to range, poor targeting, etc., then it's damage is more on-par with Surprise Attack.
The key difference (imho) is the cast time. I would note that with Surprise Attack, one only needs to dodge/mitigate a single hit, whereas each individual jab must be dodged or mitigated. Admittedly, each hit on Jabs does less damage, but if Surprise Attack is dodged and only one or two of the Jabs is dodged, the Jabs takes the lead in terms of damage. That being said, Jabs is a bit easier to dodge, so I consider this point a wash (or balanced).
I think the OP needs a minor correction to the Surprise Attack recap:Same Gearsetup on Tempalr and NB
Surprise Attack Instant cast: Major Fracture, Major Resolve, Major Ward, Stuns+off balance out of stealth
Jabs 1,1s Channel: Major Savagery
Last I checked, this is not accurate, as one must be stealthed or invisible to gain this benefit. Jabs always retains it's potential for CC. Surprise Attack must be an opener or used in combination with cloak to gain the CC benefit (and if we are to factor in cloak, we must factor in it's cost as well, making the combo far more costly than Jabs for a single attack).
Major Resolve and Major ward comes from NB passives, but I don't see the Templar passives that buff Jabs quoted here. Jabs has a 25% chance to do additional damage (I don't have the value for this, someone please share) and having it on your bar grants 10% additional crit damage, which is far from negligible.
Honestly, to truly compare these skills, one needs to measure the damage potential in a variety of situations with both characters. To do this, as many constants as possible need to be controlled, because both skills are vastly different, e.g. same gear, level, CP (if anything, the same number of CP available, though they might go into different stars. I should think this would be almost identical too since we're talking about physical damage in both skills).
I tried to include as much detail and from as neutral a perspective as possible, but I am prone to error just as anyone else. In conclusion, comparing the two based on tooltips alone does not provide any solid evidence of one skill being inherently more powerful.Edited by Autolycus on January 29, 2016 9:56PM4 -
cschwingeb14_ESO✭✭✭✭Better would be to compare Surprise Attack to puncture. SA does roughly 20% more damage than puncture.
WB does 50% more damage than SA.
But I don't feel that calling SA OP due to shadow barrier is fair. Yes, the ease of access to major buffs is an NB thing, but that should be blamed on the passive, not SA. The passive could be given a 4s cooldow for example (wouldn't affect heavy armor tanks much)
Linking the armor debuff to stealth/invis would probably be the most I would want to nerf SA. Shadow barrier and NBs in general is another story for another thread0 -
kokoandshinb14a_ESO wrote: »you know what really OP on the NB?
the use of concealed weapon or its other morph and being a vampire.
When you activate the vampire ultimate you now turn invis on both versions.
This allows you to cram as many invis buffed concealed/surprise atks you can in 6ish seconds while stunlocking you oppenents, and in the case of one of the skills-- guarantees a crit every hit.
Devouring Swarm does not turn you invisible, only Clouding Swarm.
I ran vamp with my magblade on and off (now currently off). You can get CC-ed in Clouding swarm and your still prone to AOE's. If I Soul Tether that combo is ruined, Fear also. Templar can throw a shard on themselves. Sorc can streak through. DK can talons and GTFO. It's great if you have a group to back you up and your zerg bombing with swarm + proxy + sap essence or if your Emperor but when it's countered it's countered hard.
If you don't see it coming though of course your gonna get wrecked. Same with any good combo.
double check that
I think the vamp ult was changed so that both grant you invis now
0 -
revonine✭✭✭✭kokoandshinb14a_ESO wrote: »kokoandshinb14a_ESO wrote: »you know what really OP on the NB?
the use of concealed weapon or its other morph and being a vampire.
When you activate the vampire ultimate you now turn invis on both versions.
This allows you to cram as many invis buffed concealed/surprise atks you can in 6ish seconds while stunlocking you oppenents, and in the case of one of the skills-- guarantees a crit every hit.
Devouring Swarm does not turn you invisible, only Clouding Swarm.
I ran vamp with my magblade on and off (now currently off). You can get CC-ed in Clouding swarm and your still prone to AOE's. If I Soul Tether that combo is ruined, Fear also. Templar can throw a shard on themselves. Sorc can streak through. DK can talons and GTFO. It's great if you have a group to back you up and your zerg bombing with swarm + proxy + sap essence or if your Emperor but when it's countered it's countered hard.
If you don't see it coming though of course your gonna get wrecked. Same with any good combo.
double check that
I think the vamp ult was changed so that both grant you invis now
Nope they're still the same. devouring Swarm would be OP as hell if that were true and Clouding would be inferior.0 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭kokoandshinb14a_ESO wrote: »kokoandshinb14a_ESO wrote: »you know what really OP on the NB?
the use of concealed weapon or its other morph and being a vampire.
When you activate the vampire ultimate you now turn invis on both versions.
This allows you to cram as many invis buffed concealed/surprise atks you can in 6ish seconds while stunlocking you oppenents, and in the case of one of the skills-- guarantees a crit every hit.
Devouring Swarm does not turn you invisible, only Clouding Swarm.
I ran vamp with my magblade on and off (now currently off). You can get CC-ed in Clouding swarm and your still prone to AOE's. If I Soul Tether that combo is ruined, Fear also. Templar can throw a shard on themselves. Sorc can streak through. DK can talons and GTFO. It's great if you have a group to back you up and your zerg bombing with swarm + proxy + sap essence or if your Emperor but when it's countered it's countered hard.
If you don't see it coming though of course your gonna get wrecked. Same with any good combo.
double check that
I think the vamp ult was changed so that both grant you invis now
Nope they're still the same. devouring Swarm would be OP as hell if that were true and Clouding would be inferior.
The funny thing is that i just made my DK a vamp for the first time so he has only the unmorphed bats atm, and the tooltip says "you are invisible for the duration". Go figure.0 -
imredneckson✭✭✭✭✭Why not just leave NBs alone and buff Templars and magicka DKsLegions of Mordor Guild Officer
Member of the GvG Community
Dunmer NB - Merser Frey (DC)
Dunmer DK - Akaviri Battlereeve (DC)- http://orig05.deviantart.net/7ecd/f/2016/013/b/f/you_***_kill_by_eso_picture-d9nrz0q.png
Imperial Templar - Knight of the Blood Oath (DC)-
http://orig00.deviantart.net/5ba3/f/2016/115/a/0/jesus_beam_ftw____by_eso_picture-da09ecj.png
High Elf Templar - Aurí-El (AD)
High Elf Templar - Teutonic Honor Guard (EP)1 -
Tryxus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭imredneckson wrote: »Why not just leave NBs alone and buff Templars and magicka DKs
Cuz haters prefer to hate, and nerf-sayers prefer to see things nerfed"Stand strong, stay true and shelter all."
Tryxus - Guardian of the Green - Warden - PC/EU1 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭imredneckson wrote: »Why not just leave NBs alone and buff Templars and magicka DKs
Because when 'sorc' where OP, they got nerfed, when dk's was they got nerfed, when templar wasn't they got nerfed.
Now because nb's are OP all the nb's who have been calling for nerf's for other classes for a year all of a sudden don't want anymore 'nerf's just buff the other classes.
Where was this buff the other class thought when magicka nb's were top? or sorc?, it wasn't instead all the other classes were nerfed apart from nb's and now it's time for nb's to be adjusted you don't accept it.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...5 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭leepalmer95 wrote: »imredneckson wrote: »Why not just leave NBs alone and buff Templars and magicka DKs
Because when 'sorc' where OP, they got nerfed, when dk's was they got nerfed, when templar wasn't they got nerfed.
Now because nb's are OP all the nb's who have been calling for nerf's for other classes for a year all of a sudden don't want anymore 'nerf's just buff the other classes.
Where was this buff the other class thought when magicka nb's were top? or sorc?, it wasn't instead all the other classes were nerfed apart from nb's and now it's time for nb's to be adjusted you don't accept it.
Lol. When did sorcs get nerged. Stam got a buff and mag still destroys. Is your "nerf" shield breaker? Outside of that maybe negate. Sorc shields still op. They need to raise the damage shield and make it crit. But I digress.1 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭bowmanz607 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »imredneckson wrote: »Why not just leave NBs alone and buff Templars and magicka DKs
Because when 'sorc' where OP, they got nerfed, when dk's was they got nerfed, when templar wasn't they got nerfed.
Now because nb's are OP all the nb's who have been calling for nerf's for other classes for a year all of a sudden don't want anymore 'nerf's just buff the other classes.
Where was this buff the other class thought when magicka nb's were top? or sorc?, it wasn't instead all the other classes were nerfed apart from nb's and now it's time for nb's to be adjusted you don't accept it.
Lol. When did sorcs get nerged. Stam got a buff and mag still destroys. Is your "nerf" shield breaker? Outside of that maybe negate. Sorc shields still op. They need to raise the damage shield and make it crit. But I digress.
We ignoring the 50% dmg shield debuff? Or the fact is has a direct counter item set to it's class defence or the fact bolt escape has a 50% increase? Or the fact healing ward got double nerfed with the healing + dmg shield nerf, which is a sorc main heal.
Nb has never received any negative adjustment to their skills.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...1 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭leepalmer95 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »imredneckson wrote: »Why not just leave NBs alone and buff Templars and magicka DKs
Because when 'sorc' where OP, they got nerfed, when dk's was they got nerfed, when templar wasn't they got nerfed.
Now because nb's are OP all the nb's who have been calling for nerf's for other classes for a year all of a sudden don't want anymore 'nerf's just buff the other classes.
Where was this buff the other class thought when magicka nb's were top? or sorc?, it wasn't instead all the other classes were nerfed apart from nb's and now it's time for nb's to be adjusted you don't accept it.
Lol. When did sorcs get nerged. Stam got a buff and mag still destroys. Is your "nerf" shield breaker? Outside of that maybe negate. Sorc shields still op. They need to raise the damage shield and make it crit. But I digress.
We ignoring the 50% dmg shield debuff? Or the fact is has a direct counter item set to it's class defence or the fact bolt escape has a 50% increase? Or the fact healing ward got double nerfed with the healing + dmg shield nerf, which is a sorc main heal.
Nb has never received any negative adjustment to their skills.
50% shield debug and damage debug so that equals out.
I will never think of shield breaker as a nerf to sorcs. One it effects all shields for all classes. Two, it is literally the same as any other class getting hit with a light attack. It does the sender damn amount. So your saying because ppl can light attack that is a nerf?
I did forget about streak so on I can concede that. That said, it's overall effect is minimal to a decent player anyway. Decent players never spammed that but used it strategically. Same with dodgeroll good players didn't spam but used strategically.
Healing ward is still crazy good. Heals like a boss and gives solid shiled. Especially for sorcs with champ points in bastion.
Last, you can't use abilities that are available to all to show a particular class got nerfed nor a particular gear set. Healing ward is used by all mag builds besides Temps and even then some temps.
4 -
XANTITHESISX✭✭✭The problem I have with Surprise Attack is that if I have already hit a NB or the NB has already hit me then guess what?.. Its no longer a surprise.!!!
As a matter of fact, I would say that it would be no surprise to see the recap say... Surprise attack, Mass Hysteria, Surprise Attack, Surprise Attack, Surprise Attack...
I think you get the point...1 -
XANTITHESISX✭✭✭XANTITHESISX wrote: »The problem I have with Surprise Attack is that if I have already hit a NB or the NB has already hit me then guess what?.. Its no longer a surprise.!!!
As a matter of fact, I would say that it would be no surprise to see the recap say... Surprise attack, Mass Hysteria, Surprise Attack, Surprise Attack, Surprise Attack...
I think you get the point...
or Surprise Attack, Wrecking Blow, Surprise Attack, Surprise Attack...0 -
Autolycus✭✭✭✭✭
✭XANTITHESISX wrote: »XANTITHESISX wrote: »The problem I have with Surprise Attack is that if I have already hit a NB or the NB has already hit me then guess what?.. Its no longer a surprise.!!!
As a matter of fact, I would say that it would be no surprise to see the recap say... Surprise attack, Mass Hysteria, Surprise Attack, Surprise Attack, Surprise Attack...
I think you get the point...
or Surprise Attack, Wrecking Blow, Surprise Attack, Surprise Attack...
I think I missed the point. Are you saying that spamming SA is a problem?
Jabs, Jabs, Jabs, Jabs.
WB, WB, WB, WB
Whip, Whip, Whip, Whip
Overload, Overload, Overload, Overload.2 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭bowmanz607 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »imredneckson wrote: »Why not just leave NBs alone and buff Templars and magicka DKs
Because when 'sorc' where OP, they got nerfed, when dk's was they got nerfed, when templar wasn't they got nerfed.
Now because nb's are OP all the nb's who have been calling for nerf's for other classes for a year all of a sudden don't want anymore 'nerf's just buff the other classes.
Where was this buff the other class thought when magicka nb's were top? or sorc?, it wasn't instead all the other classes were nerfed apart from nb's and now it's time for nb's to be adjusted you don't accept it.
Lol. When did sorcs get nerged. Stam got a buff and mag still destroys. Is your "nerf" shield breaker? Outside of that maybe negate. Sorc shields still op. They need to raise the damage shield and make it crit. But I digress.
We ignoring the 50% dmg shield debuff? Or the fact is has a direct counter item set to it's class defence or the fact bolt escape has a 50% increase? Or the fact healing ward got double nerfed with the healing + dmg shield nerf, which is a sorc main heal.
Nb has never received any negative adjustment to their skills.
50% shield debug and damage debug so that equals out.
I will never think of shield breaker as a nerf to sorcs. One it effects all shields for all classes. Two, it is literally the same as any other class getting hit with a light attack. It does the sender damn amount. So your saying because ppl can light attack that is a nerf?
I did forget about streak so on I can concede that. That said, it's overall effect is minimal to a decent player anyway. Decent players never spammed that but used it strategically. Same with dodgeroll good players didn't spam but used strategically.
Healing ward is still crazy good. Heals like a boss and gives solid shiled. Especially for sorcs with champ points in bastion.
Last, you can't use abilities that are available to all to show a particular class got nerfed nor a particular gear set. Healing ward is used by all mag builds besides Temps and even then some temps.
There was already a 20% dmg nerf in 1.6, so it got a 30% increase.
But do other classes run around with shields as their defence? 2k unblockable dmg isn't exactly something you can ignore, ever had someone with a weighted bow LA you for 2k each? Shieldbreaker is dangerous with a good players, a LA-Ransack-Bash player with shieldbreaker auto wins a sorc. Only class so have a set directly counter it's class defence, it's like having a set that doesn't allow nbs to stealth in a 50m range around you.
Sorc can no longer escape battles, lets be honest if you was stamina in 1.6 you went a infinite dodge roll build because thats what was most effective and thats what everyone done, even the 'good' players. Streak was how i used to get nb's out of stealth but thats no longer an option and i'll run out of magicka far too fast.
Problem will using all ability's is that nb's are pretty much the only class that have all the needed ability's, spam dps, gap closer, defence, sustain, etc....PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...3 -
Ahzek✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Strider_Roshin Nothing except 100% CC immunity + purge spam/shields can counter reverb.
NBs are the best non DKs against those DKs though ...
Fear + the strenght of SA and soul harvest can keep up with the nice casual pressure the DK will put on the NB. On top of that cloak loves axes and dk dots. Also NBs are similar to DKs able to use S+B and still deal enough damage to kill shield users (yay reverb mirror ...).
Ofc it is not an auto win and both sides will ahve to fight, but it is probably the most even matchup against a stamina DK.Edited by Ahzek on February 1, 2016 7:44PMJo'Khaljor0 -
Autolycus✭✭✭✭✭
✭leepalmer95 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »imredneckson wrote: »Why not just leave NBs alone and buff Templars and magicka DKs
Because when 'sorc' where OP, they got nerfed, when dk's was they got nerfed, when templar wasn't they got nerfed.
Now because nb's are OP all the nb's who have been calling for nerf's for other classes for a year all of a sudden don't want anymore 'nerf's just buff the other classes.
Where was this buff the other class thought when magicka nb's were top? or sorc?, it wasn't instead all the other classes were nerfed apart from nb's and now it's time for nb's to be adjusted you don't accept it.
Lol. When did sorcs get nerged. Stam got a buff and mag still destroys. Is your "nerf" shield breaker? Outside of that maybe negate. Sorc shields still op. They need to raise the damage shield and make it crit. But I digress.
We ignoring the 50% dmg shield debuff? Or the fact is has a direct counter item set to it's class defence or the fact bolt escape has a 50% increase? Or the fact healing ward got double nerfed with the healing + dmg shield nerf, which is a sorc main heal.
Nb has never received any negative adjustment to their skills.
50% shield debug and damage debug so that equals out.
I will never think of shield breaker as a nerf to sorcs. One it effects all shields for all classes. Two, it is literally the same as any other class getting hit with a light attack. It does the sender damn amount. So your saying because ppl can light attack that is a nerf?
I did forget about streak so on I can concede that. That said, it's overall effect is minimal to a decent player anyway. Decent players never spammed that but used it strategically. Same with dodgeroll good players didn't spam but used strategically.
Healing ward is still crazy good. Heals like a boss and gives solid shiled. Especially for sorcs with champ points in bastion.
Last, you can't use abilities that are available to all to show a particular class got nerfed nor a particular gear set. Healing ward is used by all mag builds besides Temps and even then some temps.
There was already a 20% dmg nerf in 1.6, so it got a 30% increase.
But do other classes run around with shields as their defence? 2k unblockable dmg isn't exactly something you can ignore, ever had someone with a weighted bow LA you for 2k each? Shieldbreaker is dangerous with a good players, a LA-Ransack-Bash player with shieldbreaker auto wins a sorc. Only class so have a set directly counter it's class defence, it's like having a set that doesn't allow nbs to stealth in a 50m range around you.
Sorc can no longer escape battles, lets be honest if you was stamina in 1.6 you went a infinite dodge roll build because thats what was most effective and thats what everyone done, even the 'good' players. Streak was how i used to get nb's out of stealth but thats no longer an option and i'll run out of magicka far too fast.
Problem will using all ability's is that nb's are pretty much the only class that have all the needed ability's, spam dps, gap closer, defence, sustain, etc....
Despite the fact that this has nothing to do with the topic of this discussion, I'd like to point out that Sorcs have the most variety in terms of skills that are useful counters against NBs, especially magicka Sorcs. There is literally a Sorc counter for everything a NB does, magicka or stamina. DKs and Templars have to work much harder for their NB kills.
Streak isn't as useless as you're making it sound. It's still good for pulling a NB out of stealth, it's just less efficient now. If that's the only thing you're using to pull a NB from cloak, you could benefit from taking a look at other options. In combination with a detect pot, streak is still an ideal skill to counter cloak. The key to countering a NB is to act quickly and never let up. I am willing to best the vast majority of the time you see a sorc vs. a NB, if the sorc stays on top of the NB it's a guaranteed win.
If you don't want to use detect pots that's your own problem. It's like saying "I ran out of magicka, but I don't want to hit this little button over here to get it back." There are a few great magicka-based detect potions that are inexpensive to make or buy, one which gives immovable, two which give sorcery and prophecy, and all of them give intellect.Edited by Autolycus on February 1, 2016 7:50PM1
5300 spell dmg 45000 magika 
