Surprise Attack OP?

Alcast

Same Gearsetup on Tempalr and NB

Surprise Attack Instant cast: Major Fracture, Major Resolve, Major Ward, Stuns+off balance out of stealth
Jabs 1,1s Channel: Major Savagery


Balanced?


@ZOS_RichLambert

Zavus

Don't get my PvE build nerfed ty.

Ashamray

Jabs do even less damage in pvp if tagret is not a dummy and trying to move.

lolo_01b16_ESO

You are comparing an aoe skill to a single target skill.
If you look at Ransack, you'll see that SA is reasonable. It costs 50% more than Ransack and deals 25% more damage.

Alcast

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

You are comparing an aoe skill to a single target skill.
If you look at Ransack, you'll see that SA is reasonable. It costs 50% more than Ransack and deals 25% more damage.

Ye I could have taken other skills as well...and nobody uses jabs for aoe dmg >.>

WillhelmBlack

I think damage as a whole is too high. It's more than 1.6! I think the damage reduction was put in just because of stamina builds because they knew the power that could be stacked with these new sets. Magicka can be negated so easily unless the damage is from stealth. Maybe NB as a whole are too OP.

I would be able to deal with SA better if the servers would let me weapon swap faster and it didn't hit me through dodge roll.

khele23eb17_ESO

Alcast wrote: »

Same Gearsetup on Tempalr and NB

Surprise Attack Instant cast: Major Fracture, Major Resolve, Major Ward, Stuns+off balance out of stealth
Jabs 1,1s Channel: Major Savagery


Balanced?


@ZOS_RichLambert

Yes. single target vs AOE. One needs to be used out of stealth for full effect, the other does not.

K4RMA

its not op

puffy99

NERF NB's! Easy train needs to come to a halt. NERF!

Ahzek

Surprise attack is obviously the strongest spammable stamina DPS ability in the entire game.
This is not a bad thing however. SA/concealed is a trademark skill for NB and one off the biggest strengths off the class.
What is the problem is that it is too strong compared to other class options out there.
The only skills that can compete with SA are uppercut, which is highly dependand on you targets skill level, and low slash/ puncture with bash weave, which costs considerably more.
To me that simply means other classes (that are not hideous stam DKs who are too efficient at using stamina as their main resource) need additional offensive stamina options, preferably in a different way than the plain spammable DPS skill.

However I still feel that SA is an overloaded skill. While im fine with having probably the highest damage (against a good opponent) spammable DPS skill with situational CC attached to it, also adding major fracture to it is just plain stupid in my book. This basically equates to a ~9% increase to all phisical damage on a standard medium armor target with major armor buff thingy. A power that otherwise comes a the cost off low/no damage (and weapon type lock with puncture).

Sharee

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

You are comparing an aoe skill to a single target skill.

In addition to that, he is comparing a single skill(jabs) to a single skill + a passive(surprise attack by itself does not do major resolve or major ward, that comes from a separate passive).

A more fair comparison would be if he added burning light passive to the jabs - that increases the damage output considerably.

[edit] hmm even without burning light the damage against a single target does not look bad for jabs.

1388 with each strike, and iirc there are three four(it's in the tooltip dummy ) strikes during the channel, so 3x1388=4164 4x1388=5552
then, the closest target takes 140% more damage, so 4164 + 140% = 9993 5552 + 140% = 13324

Then you add burning light. Hmm.

Browiseth

I don't think surprise attack is OP exactly, but the idea of ability is just dumb. A generic, "press 1 to kill" button that you're encouraged to use over and over is just poor design.

nerf nbs though

nordickittyhawk

Its not OP. if you look at the class it has no stam dots. besides the dual one and thats a pretty low one. its only choice we have nerfing that in pve would make ALL NBS use wrecking blow and we dont want that. we want to see diffrence in class. reason it hits so hard it because 0 dots n so forth.

PvE you said it your self end game trials what it it for the top sorcs n Dks. so u want nerf only attack they have?
*edit* We want templars buffed not other way around nerfing every damn thing.
community should be called "elder nerfs online"

TheBull

Rushed Ceremony OP compared to Strife?

Ceremony can heal for 20k instantly while strife needs to hit a target then heals slowly over time.

Balanced?


edit - You see how this works?

Alucardo

TheBull wrote: »

Rushed Ceremony OP compared to Strife?

Ceremony can heal for 20k instantly while strife needs to hit a target then heals slowly over time.

Balanced?


edit - You see how this works?

But strife does a lot of damage in the hands of a magicka nb AND heals them at the same time, whereas rushed ceremony is a straight heal. See how that works?

TheBull

Alucardo wrote: »

show previous quotes

TheBull wrote: »

Rushed Ceremony OP compared to Strife?

Ceremony can heal for 20k instantly while strife needs to hit a target then heals slowly over time.

Balanced?


edit - You see how this works?

But strife does a lot of damage in the hands of a magicka nb AND heals them at the same time, whereas rushed ceremony is a straight heal. See how that works?

I do. Class skills are different. Different so that classes will be different, you know?

Aunatar

TheBull wrote: »

show previous quotes

Alucardo wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

Rushed Ceremony OP compared to Strife?

Ceremony can heal for 20k instantly while strife needs to hit a target then heals slowly over time.

Balanced?


edit - You see how this works?

But strife does a lot of damage in the hands of a magicka nb AND heals them at the same time, whereas rushed ceremony is a straight heal. See how that works?

I do. Class skills are different. Different so that classes will be different, you know?

Classes are different. Different means one can be op and the other one can stay underpowered. Don't you understand it @Alucardo ?
Of course the OP ones are stamina Templars. Don't you see the 80% of pvpers is made of them? It's always endless when I try to finish my "Kill 20 enemy nightblades"!
Seriously wtf is wrong with this community

Cody

well to be fair, bitting jabs is capable of almost stun locking people if they get stuck, but yes SA does do a bit much in terms of damage. Nerfing SA will not solve this however, as players will find another skill to replace it. Perhaps the way weapon and spell damage can be brought to extremely high proportions should be looked at. Maybe even bring back softcaps.

nordickittyhawk

Cody wrote: »

well to be fair, bitting jabs is capable of almost stun locking people if they get stuck, but yes SA does do a bit much in terms of damage. Nerfing SA will not solve this however, as players will find another skill to replace it. Perhaps the way weapon damage can be brought to extremely high proportions should be looked at. Maybe even bring back softcaps.

you mean wreckling bow... seriously stam blades have 2 options. SA/WB .__. i like using my class skill. besides we dont have anything else... no one in there right mind would use rapid strikes.

mr_wazzabi

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

show previous quotes

Cody wrote: »

well to be fair, bitting jabs is capable of almost stun locking people if they get stuck, but yes SA does do a bit much in terms of damage. Nerfing SA will not solve this however, as players will find another skill to replace it. Perhaps the way weapon damage can be brought to extremely high proportions should be looked at. Maybe even bring back softcaps.

you mean wreckling bow... seriously stam blades have 2 options. SA/WB .__. i like using my class skill. besides we dont have anything else... no one in there right mind would use rapid strikes.

I still see many stamblades usig rapid strikes. Don't ask me why...

Alucardo

Look, I think the only real thing we can take away from this is, nerf Alcast

nordickittyhawk

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

show previous quotes

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

well to be fair, bitting jabs is capable of almost stun locking people if they get stuck, but yes SA does do a bit much in terms of damage. Nerfing SA will not solve this however, as players will find another skill to replace it. Perhaps the way weapon damage can be brought to extremely high proportions should be looked at. Maybe even bring back softcaps.

you mean wreckling bow... seriously stam blades have 2 options. SA/WB .__. i like using my class skill. besides we dont have anything else... no one in there right mind would use rapid strikes.

I still see many stamblades usig rapid strikes. Don't ask me why...

im so sorry you had to see that. just hope u dont see it again. poor soul.

Xeniph

C'mon Alcast, you know better than this.

You can't dissect and compare class abilities, you have to compare classes as a whole. Even then you need to not only compare the class but the roles. That's how rock paper scissors works.

But hey, if you can get Templars to fill the role of an stealthed assassin a proficiently as a NB, I'd totally be down for that and never have to log in my NB when I crave that type of gameplay.

Cody

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

show previous quotes

Cody wrote: »

well to be fair, bitting jabs is capable of almost stun locking people if they get stuck, but yes SA does do a bit much in terms of damage. Nerfing SA will not solve this however, as players will find another skill to replace it. Perhaps the way weapon damage can be brought to extremely high proportions should be looked at. Maybe even bring back softcaps.

you mean wreckling bow... seriously stam blades have 2 options. SA/WB .__. i like using my class skill. besides we dont have anything else... no one in there right mind would use rapid strikes.

I use rapid strikes. Its not very good though, i do not advise it. SA or wrecking blow is preferable in my opinion. Maybe if rapid strikes did not take 2 seconds (I counted, it is at least two) to dish out all of its damage it would at least be halfway decent.

RAGUNAnoOne

Browiseth wrote: »

I don't think surprise attack is OP exactly, but the idea of ability is just dumb. A generic, "press 1 to kill" button that you're encouraged to use over and over is just poor design.

nerf nbs though

Buff temps and DKs instead.

leepalmer95

Jabs doesn't work on shields either, and how many times are you realistically going to hit all 4 jabs on a half decent player?

Your lucky if you hit them 2/3 times at most. You actually have to aim jabs.

Jabs doesn't work on shields, but if were going to include passive, SA gives the user 5.2k armour on use as well.

Plus all nb's have high crit which high crit dmg. 50%+ is the min but usually i see people with 70% with 180%~ crit dmg.

Thats were SA suddenly starts doing stupid dmg.

Plus the first SA will be empowered usually. If ambushed in or the HA/SA from stealth weave will kill someone or take them to 25% hp.

Looks balanced to me.... <

---

( Sarcasm)

Gilvoth

the only reason you got that number is because your in crouch sneak, and your probably just also took an increase damage pot and then immediatly took a screen shot.

Cody

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Jabs doesn't work on shields either, and how many times are you realistically going to hit all 4 jabs on a half decent player?

Your lucky if you hit them 2/3 times at most. You actually have to aim jabs.

Jabs doesn't work on shields, but if were going to include passive, SA gives the user 5.2k armour on use as well.

Plus all nb's have high crit which high crit dmg. 50%+ is the min but usually i see people with 70% with 180%~ crit dmg.

Thats were SA suddenly starts doing stupid dmg.

Plus the first SA will be empowered usually. If ambushed in or the HA/SA from stealth weave will kill someone or take them to 25% hp.

Looks balanced to me.... <

---

( Sarcasm)

70-100% crit chance is also ridiculous in my opinion.

Draxys

DKs ARE OP

Gilvoth

and btw the only way to pull numbers like that off would be through pure "light armor" magicka build.
stamina build medium armor could never get that high in damage.

leepalmer95

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

and btw the only way to pull numbers like that off would be through pure "light armor" magicka build.
stamina build medium armor could never get that high in damage.

and why is that?

flawless danbreaker 8% wpn dmg
5 piece medium 12% wpn dmg?