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Hundings Rage (crafted items in general) need a nerf
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babylon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
I'll make you some crafted gear. I don't need carrying btw, but you sound like you will be needing to buy mats and cover misc crafting costs due to what I'm guessing is a total lack of craft skills and zero time invested in gathering materials.
Wouldn't matter - even if I was brand new to the game I could get someone to craft me hundings rage with 0 effort on my part.
Just as anyone could get someone to "carry them" through a dungeon...in fact in any group there are quite often people who do the work and others who screw things up and get saved by the actual players.
So you're saying you're a crafting screwup/leech. GG.0 -
Kelleton✭✭✭Here you go
http://imgur.com/c5OtFPQ
Even if you had someone run you through the dungeon you are not guaranteed the drop, and you don't have the choice of trait AND the loot is not as good...so you just proved my pointEdited by Kelleton on January 27, 2016 4:30AM0 -
babylon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Even if you had someone run you through the dungeon you are not guaranteed the drop, and you don't have the choice of trait AND the loot is not as good
Raiders like that kind of grind. If you have a problem with it maybe raiding isn't for you.
In meantime let the crafters do what they like to do - craft, and stick to your own business.3 -
Kelleton✭✭✭Even if you had someone run you through the dungeon you are not guaranteed the drop, and you don't have the choice of trait AND the loot is not as good
Raiders like that kind of grind. If you have a problem with it maybe raiding isn't for you.
In meantime let the crafters do what they like to do - craft, and stick to your own business.
ignoring the point? And didn't click the link...so apparently you do not have a good argument0 -
babylon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Even if you had someone run you through the dungeon you are not guaranteed the drop, and you don't have the choice of trait AND the loot is not as good
Raiders like that kind of grind. If you have a problem with it maybe raiding isn't for you.
In meantime let the crafters do what they like to do - craft, and stick to your own business.
ignoring the point?
The point you need to take notice of is you're trying to control another group's playstyle, and instead you should stick to your own business.5 -
Kelleton✭✭✭Even if you had someone run you through the dungeon you are not guaranteed the drop, and you don't have the choice of trait AND the loot is not as good
Raiders like that kind of grind. If you have a problem with it maybe raiding isn't for you.
In meantime let the crafters do what they like to do - craft, and stick to your own business.
ignoring the point?
The point you need to take notice of is you're trying to control another group's playstyle, and instead you should stick to your own business.
Nothing is saying that the people have to get the PVP/PVE gear...they are welcome to craft - however crafting should not be BIS if it is going to be available Instantly with 0 effort. As I said at least put mats in raids/dungeons/pvp that you have to gather for BiS to create id be even happy if they put it in fishing...just don't make crafting as easy as it is and have the gear way better than the stuff that the hardest content in the game drops
nothing is saying you have to have the BiS gear either...
right now hundings stat alocations are way out of wack it has more weapon power than the end game weapon power sets and the same amount of crit as the end game critical set.Edited by Kelleton on January 27, 2016 4:44AM0 -
babylon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭however crafting should not be BIS if it is going to be available Instantly with 0 effort.
It's not zero effort...unless we can say getting carried through a dungeon is also zero effort, in which case dungeon drops should also definitely not be BIS either.
Maybe we should have to buy everything that's BIS from the Crown store, that way we could all cry on the forums with a united voice.1 -
Kelleton✭✭✭however crafting should not be BIS if it is going to be available Instantly with 0 effort.
It's not zero effort...unless we can say getting carried through a dungeon is also zero effort, in which case dungeon drops should also definitely not be BIS either.
Maybe we should have to buy everything that's BIS from the Crown store, that way we could all cry on the forums with a united voice.
You are guaranteed the loot from crafting...are you saying you want a chance to fail at a crafting attempt with the possibility of losing all materials?0 -
babylon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭however crafting should not be BIS if it is going to be available Instantly with 0 effort.
It's not zero effort...unless we can say getting carried through a dungeon is also zero effort, in which case dungeon drops should also definitely not be BIS either.
Maybe we should have to buy everything that's BIS from the Crown store, that way we could all cry on the forums with a united voice.
You are guaranteed the loot from crafting...are you saying you want a chance to fail at a crafting attempt with the possibility of losing all materials?
You already can fail upgrades. You can fail to reach a node before another person gets to it. Some nodes give random drops. Crafting gear can mean travelling to specific locations as well as organising each needed item from the person who wanted the thing made. Then there's the time it all took to learn traits and hunt down the trait items to crunch. And storing all this stuff for when people don't have the mats themselves, or going out buying yourself for the job.
Crafting is actually a ton more involved than standing around a dungeon entry waiting for team to assemble then having some guy yell instructions for your every move like you're a robot.
Regardless, stick to what you know (or at least, what your team leader knows...you just keep pressing buttons in the right order and stay out of the red stuff ok?).2 -
FortheloveofKrist✭✭✭✭✭
✭Just because the majority like it doesn't mean its right. Slavery, Segregation, *** Germany were all supported by majority rule.
Uh...wow. You just compared end game gear in an MMO to....drum roll....slavery, segregation, and *** Germany. I'm going to guess you don't have a very keen understanding of what those three events entailed.
Edited by FortheloveofKrist on January 27, 2016 4:59AM6 -
Kelleton✭✭✭
You already can fail upgrades. You can fail to reach a node before another person gets to it. Some nodes give random drops. Crafting gear can mean travelling to specific locations as well as organising each needed item from the person who wanted the thing made. Then there's the time it all took to learn traits and hunt down the trait items to crunch. And storing all this stuff for when people don't have the mats themselves, or going out buying yourself for the job.
Crafting is actually a ton more involved than standing around a dungeon entry waiting for team to assemble then having some guy yell instructions for your every move like you're a robot.
Regardless, stick to what you know (or at least, what your team leader knows...you just keep pressing buttons in the right order and stay out of the red stuff ok?).
Weak arguments all around:
1. You cant fail upgrades if u have the mats
2. nodes are a non issue since there is a massive surplus and u can buy the mats with gold/telvar
3. the time u learn the trais is once - you then have it forever
4. storing stuff? serious? make an mule alt
5. End game dungeons (vICP, VWGT, VM) have a lot more time investment in doing them to obtain gear than crafting today.
How many times do u have to run VICP to get full sheer venom divines? How long did it take to learn the dungeon before you could clear? How long does it take you now.
You have to run vICP at least 100 times to get that gear..in that amount of runs you would have the ability to make hundings rage just from the trash that drops that you get AND its a better setEdited by Kelleton on January 27, 2016 5:03AM0 -
Tholian1✭✭✭✭✭
✭Even if you had someone run you through the dungeon you are not guaranteed the drop, and you don't have the choice of trait AND the loot is not as good
Raiders like that kind of grind. If you have a problem with it maybe raiding isn't for you.
In meantime let the crafters do what they like to do - craft, and stick to your own business.
ignoring the point?
The point you need to take notice of is you're trying to control another group's playstyle, and instead you should stick to your own business.
Nothing is saying that the people have to get the PVP/PVE gear...they are welcome to craft - however crafting should not be BIS if it is going to be available Instantly with 0 effort. As I said at least put mats in raids/dungeons/pvp that you have to gather for BiS to create id be even happy if they put it in fishing...just don't make crafting as easy as it is and have the gear way better than the stuff that the hardest content in the game drops
nothing is saying you have to have the BiS gear either...
Oh how I wish V16 crafted gear sets took zero effort to craft. I guess it could be easy if you are rich in-game and can afford to just buy the 1000+ rare mats for a full set. The rest of us have to farm for the rare mats and gold to craft the stuff. After all the time and effort, I see no reason why it shouldn't be the best. But as others have already pointed out, what is considered the best is situational.
PS4 Pro NA6 -
Kelleton✭✭✭
Its not about hating it - its about effort vs reward.
crafting is instant reward 0 effort
end game dungeons are tons of effort for no reward
I like dungeons but crafted gear has no effort and all of the reward0 -
Kelleton✭✭✭Even if you had someone run you through the dungeon you are not guaranteed the drop, and you don't have the choice of trait AND the loot is not as good
Raiders like that kind of grind. If you have a problem with it maybe raiding isn't for you.
In meantime let the crafters do what they like to do - craft, and stick to your own business.
ignoring the point?
The point you need to take notice of is you're trying to control another group's playstyle, and instead you should stick to your own business.
Nothing is saying that the people have to get the PVP/PVE gear...they are welcome to craft - however crafting should not be BIS if it is going to be available Instantly with 0 effort. As I said at least put mats in raids/dungeons/pvp that you have to gather for BiS to create id be even happy if they put it in fishing...just don't make crafting as easy as it is and have the gear way better than the stuff that the hardest content in the game drops
nothing is saying you have to have the BiS gear either...
Oh how I wish V16 crafted gear sets took zero effort to craft. I guess it could be easy if you are rich in-game and can afford to just buy the 1000+ rare mats for a full set. The rest of us have to farm for the rare mats and gold to craft the stuff. After all the time and effort, I see no reason why it shouldn't be the best. But as others have already pointed out, what is considered the best is situational.
in what situation is 5 piece sheer venom superior to 5 piece hundings? And is what world is 5 piece hundings harder to get than 5 piece sheer venom?Edited by Kelleton on January 27, 2016 5:10AM0 -
babylon✭✭✭✭✭
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Its not about hating it - its about effort vs reward.
crafting is instant reward 0 effort
end game dungeons are tons of effort for no reward
I like dungeons but crafted gear has no effort and all of the reward
And you keep missing that the actual crafter HAS put loads of effort in to get the reward.
Just as the players who are actually good in dungeons have. Yet there are people who will buy crafted goods, and there are people who will get carried in dungeons...and they also get the rewards with no effort.
That's just how games go I'm afraid.
Your problem is you're only hating on the people who buy crafted items rather than learn it all themselves, and not on the carried players in dungeon grinds. The flipside of each is someone actually did put effort in, in both playstyles. The crafted gear did not just magically appear you know.
So stop complaining and just get on with what you enjoy doing.3 -
Kelleton✭✭✭
Its not about hating it - its about effort vs reward.
crafting is instant reward 0 effort
end game dungeons are tons of effort for no reward
I like dungeons but crafted gear has no effort and all of the reward
And you keep missing that the actual crafter HAS put loads of effort in to get the reward.
Just as the players who are actually good in dungeons have. Yet there are people who will buy crafted goods, and there are people who will get carried in dungeons...and they also get the rewards with no effort.
That's just how games go I'm afraid.
Your problem is you're only hating on the people who buy crafted items rather than learn it all themselves, and not on the carried players in dungeon grinds. The flipside of each is someone actually did put effort in, in both playstyles. The crafted gear did not just magically appear you know.
So stop complaining and just get on with what you enjoy doing.
No as I showed in the picture - I don't believe that I should make a BiS item an infinite number of times with the trait I choose just because I spent 5 days researching....you will spend way more time running vICP I guarantee it for those pieces.
The mats are a non issue they are cheap beyond reason and you cant say its expensive to upgrade to gold because dungeon sets drop as purple..you have to upgrade those tooEdited by Kelleton on January 27, 2016 5:16AM0 -
MrDerrikk✭✭✭✭✭
✭Even if you had someone run you through the dungeon you are not guaranteed the drop, and you don't have the choice of trait AND the loot is not as good
Raiders like that kind of grind. If you have a problem with it maybe raiding isn't for you.
In meantime let the crafters do what they like to do - craft, and stick to your own business.
ignoring the point?
The point you need to take notice of is you're trying to control another group's playstyle, and instead you should stick to your own business.
Nothing is saying that the people have to get the PVP/PVE gear...they are welcome to craft - however crafting should not be BIS if it is going to be available Instantly with 0 effort. As I said at least put mats in raids/dungeons/pvp that you have to gather for BiS to create id be even happy if they put it in fishing...just don't make crafting as easy as it is and have the gear way better than the stuff that the hardest content in the game drops
nothing is saying you have to have the BiS gear either...
Oh how I wish V16 crafted gear sets took zero effort to craft. I guess it could be easy if you are rich in-game and can afford to just buy the 1000+ rare mats for a full set. The rest of us have to farm for the rare mats and gold to craft the stuff. After all the time and effort, I see no reason why it shouldn't be the best. But as others have already pointed out, what is considered the best is situational.
in what situation is 5 piece sheer venom superior to 5 piece hundings? And is what world is 5 piece hundings harder to get than 5 piece sheer venom?
Sheer Venom, along with Spell Power Cure, is a set that is designed for a specific build style. There will always be sets that suck from drops, and these are there for the people who like to grind them out. The mats needed for VR16 gear is rather ridiculous IMO, and yet I would still prefer SPC over the Julianos I'm going to be fitting my healer with.I have departed into the great unknown that is outside the game and the forums, and wish you well in your Tamriel adventures!
DC - PC - EU - Australian
VR11 Mrderrikk: Breton Stam Sorc (Vamp) | VR16 Derrikkinblack: Dunmer Mage DK | VR3 Cuts-Until-It-Dies: Argonian Magicka NB
Oh look, Anook.1 -
Tholian1✭✭✭✭✭
✭Even if you had someone run you through the dungeon you are not guaranteed the drop, and you don't have the choice of trait AND the loot is not as good
Raiders like that kind of grind. If you have a problem with it maybe raiding isn't for you.
In meantime let the crafters do what they like to do - craft, and stick to your own business.
ignoring the point?
The point you need to take notice of is you're trying to control another group's playstyle, and instead you should stick to your own business.
Nothing is saying that the people have to get the PVP/PVE gear...they are welcome to craft - however crafting should not be BIS if it is going to be available Instantly with 0 effort. As I said at least put mats in raids/dungeons/pvp that you have to gather for BiS to create id be even happy if they put it in fishing...just don't make crafting as easy as it is and have the gear way better than the stuff that the hardest content in the game drops
nothing is saying you have to have the BiS gear either...
Oh how I wish V16 crafted gear sets took zero effort to craft. I guess it could be easy if you are rich in-game and can afford to just buy the 1000+ rare mats for a full set. The rest of us have to farm for the rare mats and gold to craft the stuff. After all the time and effort, I see no reason why it shouldn't be the best. But as others have already pointed out, what is considered the best is situational.
in what situation is 5 piece sheer venom superior to 5 piece hundings? And is what world is 5 piece hundings harder to get than 5 piece sheer venom?
My build uses 5 piece night mother's gaze and no dungeon sets, so couldn't tell ya. I do know that it works for how I am enjoying the game, which doesn't include boring dungeon farming for gear.
PS4 Pro NA0 -
Kelleton✭✭✭Even if you had someone run you through the dungeon you are not guaranteed the drop, and you don't have the choice of trait AND the loot is not as good
Raiders like that kind of grind. If you have a problem with it maybe raiding isn't for you.
In meantime let the crafters do what they like to do - craft, and stick to your own business.
ignoring the point?
The point you need to take notice of is you're trying to control another group's playstyle, and instead you should stick to your own business.
Nothing is saying that the people have to get the PVP/PVE gear...they are welcome to craft - however crafting should not be BIS if it is going to be available Instantly with 0 effort. As I said at least put mats in raids/dungeons/pvp that you have to gather for BiS to create id be even happy if they put it in fishing...just don't make crafting as easy as it is and have the gear way better than the stuff that the hardest content in the game drops
nothing is saying you have to have the BiS gear either...
Oh how I wish V16 crafted gear sets took zero effort to craft. I guess it could be easy if you are rich in-game and can afford to just buy the 1000+ rare mats for a full set. The rest of us have to farm for the rare mats and gold to craft the stuff. After all the time and effort, I see no reason why it shouldn't be the best. But as others have already pointed out, what is considered the best is situational.
in what situation is 5 piece sheer venom superior to 5 piece hundings? And is what world is 5 piece hundings harder to get than 5 piece sheer venom?
Sheer Venom, along with Spell Power Cure, is a set that is designed for a specific build style. There will always be sets that suck from drops, and these are there for the people who like to grind them out. The mats needed for VR16 gear is rather ridiculous IMO, and yet I would still prefer SPC over the Julianos I'm going to be fitting my healer with.
Except that build doesn't exist because of the cooldown on the proc - hundings is superior 100% of the time.0 -
babylon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Anyway different people enjoy different things, stop trying to force your playstyle on every single person here.3 -
Smitch_59✭✭✭✭✭Your basic premise that crafting is zero effort is WRONG.By Azura, by Azura, by Azura!6 -
Kelleton✭✭✭
see picture posted above..yes sorry its 2 weeks total for 6 traits....still will take you longer to get 1 piece of divines sheer venom and you have to be logged on to do itEdited by Kelleton on January 27, 2016 5:22AM0 -
babylon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I think it's time to just ignore this thread, guy isn't stopping to concede any points no matter how many people try to explain what's what.5 -
Kelleton✭✭✭I think it's time to just ignore this thread, guy isn't stopping to concede any points no matter how many people try to explain what's what.
I only have 2 points..none of which have been rebutted about the 5 piece sets:
1. Its ridiculously much harder to get dungeon/pvp drops than crafted gear
2. crafted gear is vastly superior..
Results from that:
1. Sheer venom has no place in the game right now even as a 2 or 3 piece set because you can get better crafted items with 1/100th the effort.
2. Hundings jacks up the ability to make better sets because the 5 piece has more weapon power than the weapon power set and the same amount of crit as the crit set...that is why wo many people run it
3. If you Buff other sets to be on par with hundings rather than bring the 5 piece bonus down to par of other set bonuses you will increase player powerbase even more making even more content in the game trivial than there already is.
4. less man hours to decrease the 300 weapon damage to something more reasonable
Edited by Kelleton on January 27, 2016 5:44AM0 -
Autolycus✭✭✭✭✭
✭
that's not negativity it's the truth. you want something constructive? all right, here you go.
if you are a dungeon grinder, it's all right, go sit in the same dungeons for hours days upon days and grind your gear if you enjoy it, but doing that you also get gold and a items to deconstruct or sell, not mentioning the exp and champion points. But if you're not a dungeon grinder, and you like crafting, you gotta find 6 items with different traits and wait for a considerable amount of time to have those 5 items fully researched to the point of being able to craft that set. And that's not a matter of hours, it's matter of about a month or so, having all 5 items researched. And also, you gotta grind for tempers too, and grind for insane amount of materials to craft VR16 gear. This kind of puts the dungeon gear grinding even a little bit easier.
And furthermore, you have to buy enchantment glyphs if you aren't an enchanter yourself, and those glyphs are very expensive and hard to come by for VR16 gear, at least on console.
No one cries that ZOS should nerf dropped gear only because they're too lazy to grind dungeons (like me for example), I hate to grind dungeons and I don't do that at all. All of my gear is crafted, except for dropped jewelry sets which i buy from guild stores (and that's not easy as well, since most of the really good stuff cost a ton of gold and not always available). And I'm not whining about it! It's just the way it goes.
But here, on the other hand. we see crying about crafted sets are "too easy to obtain and too op" only because the person is too lazy to invest time and effort to research traits. For example, I've been searching for exploration heavy gauntlets for freaking 2 months to have 8 traits on gauntlets, and when I finally managed to find it, I also had to wait for about 24 days to research it. 24 days for 1 trait! I guess it's still researching right now.
And how about getting a nirnhoned trait? You gotta grind hours upon hours in Craglorn to get it and then wait for 30 days per item to get your 9th trait.
[snip]
[Moderator Note: Removed moderated quote, Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]
that's not negativity it's the truth. you want something constructive? all right, here you go.
if you are a dungeon grinder, it's all right, go sit in the same dungeons for hours days upon days and grind your gear if you enjoy it, but doing that you also get gold and a items to deconstruct or sell, not mentioning the exp and champion points. But if you're not a dungeon grinder, and you like crafting, you gotta find 6 items with different traits and wait for a considerable amount of time to have those 5 items fully researched to the point of being able to craft that set. And that's not a matter of hours, it's matter of about a month or so, having all 5 items researched. And also, you gotta grind for tempers too, and grind for insane amount of materials to craft VR16 gear. This kind of puts the dungeon gear grinding even a little bit easier.
And furthermore, you have to buy enchantment glyphs if you aren't an enchanter yourself, and those glyphs are very expensive and hard to come by for VR16 gear, at least on console.
No one cries that ZOS should nerf dropped gear only because they're too lazy to grind dungeons (like me for example), I hate to grind dungeons and I don't do that at all. All of my gear is crafted, except for dropped jewelry sets which i buy from guild stores (and that's not easy as well, since most of the really good stuff cost a ton of gold and not always available). And I'm not whining about it! It's just the way it goes.
But here, on the other hand. we see crying about crafted sets are "too easy to obtain and too op" only because the person is too lazy to invest time and effort to research traits. For example, I've been searching for exploration heavy gauntlets for freaking 2 months to have 8 traits on gauntlets, and when I finally managed to find it, I also had to wait for about 24 days to research it. 24 days for 1 trait! I guess it's still researching right now.
And how about getting a nirnhoned trait? You gotta grind hours upon hours in Craglorn to get it and then wait for 30 days per item to get your 9th trait.
[snip]
[Moderator Note: Removed moderated quote, Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]
I agree wholeheartedly. I said almost exactly the same thing in post #258.2 -
Autolycus✭✭✭✭✭
✭But here, on the other hand. we see crying about crafted sets are "too easy to obtain and too op" only because the person is too lazy to invest time and effort to research traits.
Sorry I have all traits and styles already. Most people do...which is why it takes 0 effort to get hundings.
Hundings gives massive amounts of crit and weapon damage. Hundings gives more weapon damage than the end game weapon damage set (sheer venom) while also giving absurd amounts of crit.
You really have quite the habit of over-generalizing. "Most people" do not have all traits and styles. Many people who have been playing since do not, and it's common knowledge the majority of ESO's population is new and returning players, not those who have been playing since launch. Your first statement is completely inaccurate.
Using words like "massive" and "absurd" is also highly subjective. You've already posted the difference between the tooltips, but I have yet to see any real analysis of the sets in their proper context, i.e. in the builds in which they belong. I guarantee you that a bow nb with all points into thaumaturge and elfborn, is going to benefit from sheer venom over hundings. Do you know how I know this? because my friends and I have tested it extensively.
You need data to support your claims.3 -
Kelleton✭✭✭But here, on the other hand. we see crying about crafted sets are "too easy to obtain and too op" only because the person is too lazy to invest time and effort to research traits.
Sorry I have all traits and styles already. Most people do...which is why it takes 0 effort to get hundings.
Hundings gives massive amounts of crit and weapon damage. Hundings gives more weapon damage than the end game weapon damage set (sheer venom) while also giving absurd amounts of crit.
You really have quite the habit of over-generalizing. "Most people" do not have all traits and styles. Many people who have been playing since do not, and it's common knowledge the majority of ESO's population is new and returning players, not those who have been playing since launch. Your first statement is completely inaccurate.
Using words like "massive" and "absurd" is also highly subjective. You've already posted the difference between the tooltips, but I have yet to see any real analysis of the sets in their proper context, i.e. in the builds in which they belong. I guarantee you that a bow nb with all points into thaumaturge and elfborn, is going to benefit from sheer venom over hundings. Do you know how I know this? because my friends and I have tested it extensively.
You need data to support your claims.
see posts above? show me 1 build where sheer venom is better than hundings? out of all the posts on this topic no one has been able to give one...know why? cause hundings is so much stronger than most other sets
You be able to come up with a scenario where sheer venom is better considering it takes about 100x longer to farm/create and has a skill check.... but you cant because hundings is brokenEdited by Kelleton on January 27, 2016 6:06AM0
This discussion has been closed.