Who wants ZOS to bring back stamina regen while holding block?

RAGUNAnoOne · January 2016

Yes please bring back perma-block

code65536 wrote: »

I've adapted to no-regen, so I don't really care that much.

That said, the way they implemented zero regen is very ham-fisted, like killing a fly with a bludgeon.

First, each time you block, you reset the timer instead of pausing it. So if you block more than every 2 seconds, you might as well be perma-blocking. Also, making the regen 0% instead of, say, 25% makes stam regen a virtually useless stat. It makes no difference if you have low or high regen, since 0% of anything is always 0, but if they had made it, say, 25%, then things like the 3p Endurance set would actually make sense, since you'll still get some benefit from more regen stat.

Plus on consoles you HAVE to block to bash or dodge unlike PC so we feel it worse as if you can't do that you are dead and since we loose stamina regen for ALL defense you wonder why malestorm scores are so low VS PC.

Acrolas · January 2016

So long as there's an option to restore stamina through heavy attacks, no stam regen while blocking will always seem dumb.
If they want a serious reduction in recovery for PVP, fine.

But the elephant in the room is that by the time they introduced shield dying, nobody really had any practical use for a shield anymore. So now all my beautifully color-coordinated shields are sitting in a pile of decon material.

Personofsecrets · January 2016

Yes please bring back perma-block

Acrolas wrote: »

So long as there's an option to restore stamina through heavy attacks, no stam regen while blocking will always seem dumb.
If they want a serious reduction in recovery for PVP, fine.

But the elephant in the room is that by the time they introduced shield dying, nobody really had any practical use for a shield anymore. So now all my beautifully color-coordinated shields are sitting in a pile of decon material.

Interesting insight. Hadn't heard that reasoning before.

MrGigglypants · January 2016

No keep it gone

Hope499 wrote: »

Leave it, but buff heavy armor.

Tanks are ***, ZOS knows this, everyone knows this, and they needs some help. DK tank in PvP? pfft, zero healing (since DK heal literally, does nothing)

1 - Sword and board passives NEED A BUFF

2- heavy armor NEEDS a buff

3-DK's need some love (Still dont get why sorcs have a better shield then the "tank" class.....)

Stam dk's are the strongest duelist class lol.

threefarms · January 2016

Yes please bring back perma-block

Like all the stamina users: ME, ME, PICK ME.

Jura23 · January 2016

No keep it gone

CyrusArya wrote: »

Perma blocking was the cheesiest mechanic ever. As it stands Blocking is arguably the most effective form of mitigation and you shouldn't be able to always be in that state. I think the current mechanic encourages more skillful use of blocking and resource management compared to last patch (PvP and PvE) .

I agree. But then why not have also no mag regen while shield is up?

Jura23 · January 2016

No keep it gone

xXNesTXx wrote: »

You can regen stamina while sprint? NO
You can regen stamina while walk hidden? NO
You can regen stamina while dodge? NO

You can actually. According to my observation your stam regen while sneaking get reduced by about 1200. If you have more, you still regenerate.

dodgehopper_ESO · January 2016

Yes please bring back perma-block

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Well then I want Stamina Regen while sprinting. I mean, if you want regen while doing something that consumes stamina I want regen for what Im going to consume my stamina with.

Why don't we just stop regenerating while doing anything? Lets stop magicka regeneration every time you throw up a shield or any ability with +armor or +miss chance. Lets stamina regeneration while dodge rolling. Lets stop stamina regeneration after cc break. Lets stop stamina regeneration while crouching and crouch-walking. I have an idea, why don't we just get rid of regeneration altogether, and make it so you only regeneration off of light or heavy attacks... Actually that isn't a bad idea, it is kind of how DCUO operates their game, but at least weapon attacks in that game have combos you can play which make it a bit more interesting. DCUO also has SOME passive regeneration but it is lower than this game.

I think the problem right now is that the balance is unfair on what earns regeneration and what doesn't. Shield wielders still have to face cc effects of specific varieties. They have to break free (losing stamina) to put their shield up. They have to use stamina to use an attack unless they are magic build. If they are magic build they have low stamina anyway, so why do you care? Ultimately this system is borked and they keep making it worse. Removing stamina regeneration while blocking was not the answer by any stretch of the imagination, not unless they make some fundamental changes to the game in other areas. Playing as a tank in this current build of the game is just not fun, and literally is the first time in 15 years of gaming that I said "screw it I don't want to tank anymore". Its not because it is difficult, it is because it is literally more boring than watching paint peel, and you can forget about farming anything useful unless you're the tank for a team of dungeon crawlers.

dodgehopper_ESO · January 2016

Yes please bring back perma-block

Sharee wrote: »

They should bring back stamina regen while blocking, but not in the same form it used to be.

Thing is, blocking was the domain of heavy armor. It was the reason you'd want 5 pieces heavy. Other armor types had their own primary purposes(regen, cost reduction, extra damage/extra penetration) but with heavy, blocking was it. But then ZOS nerfed stamina regen while blocking, which severely impacted the specific advantage of heavy armor, while leaving the other two armor types intact.

What i think should be done is giving heavy armor a passive that will allow stamina regen to continue while blocking as long as you wear 5 pieces of it(or alternatively, a passive that allows 20% of stamina regen while blocking per piece of heavy armor worn)

This is exactly the point yes. I'd also like to point out that with the current iteration of the game, a skill that was already horrible (Pvp alliance skill - Guard) became laughably stupid to use. I can't imagine anyone ever, at any time makes use of the Guard skill apart from getting big laughs right now.

dodgehopper_ESO · January 2016

Yes please bring back perma-block

Miszou wrote: »

No.

If you don't have enough stamina to block, you need to manage your resources better.

I'm a Magicka sword/board tank, and I rarely run out of stamina.

I can't imagine how dull tanking would be if you regained stamina while blocking...

What is your solution for all the Stamina tankers that use to exist? What is your response, l2p? There is a reason that taunt is a stamina skill, there is a reason that there is a stamina morph of inner fire. The big problem is that Mr. Toad has taken a wild ride with balance of the game in general, and this was a *** poor solution to fix the problem. It is also not equitable with the way shielding, mobility and dodge rolling function.

Cody · January 2016

No keep it gone

Infinite12 wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

Infinite12 wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

No, shield blockers are still OP. Just yesterday saw one tank holding like 10 guys. Imagine what couple tanks can do or 3.

Keep 30 dumb asses busy for a short time?

While the rest kill them?

Ive no problems with current tanks, but I say they are at the borderline.

Of course you have no problem with tanks right now, they're crappy right now lol

Crappy? When tanks were at its best, they were able to tank 20+ guy, that was with perma block.

Yeah...which they can't do right now......a tank who is perma blocking is doing no damage to you. What harm is there in that? There was a video on these forums recently of a sorc kind of complaining about perma blocking still being a problem. The funny part is the video shows the guy kill 2 or 3 guys without losing a lot of health thanks to the shield stacking and then it took him 2 or 3 minutes or so to kill the dk who was literally just standing there blocking. Did nothing but block, probably burned through all his pots and recourses just to stay alive, doing ZERO damage. A dk who is blocking is doing you no harm. I feel like people having trouble with perma blockers was more of a l2p issue. They're not incredibly hard to deal with, light attacks and cc's.

the issue was people could perma block WHILE using offensive skills. It would take one some time to burn thru the blocker's stamina, but by then they would almost be dead. CCs did not go thru block either, so fear would not work. I myself am glad to see those days gone.

Personofsecrets · January 2016

Yes please bring back perma-block

Cody wrote: »

Infinite12 wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

Infinite12 wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

No, shield blockers are still OP. Just yesterday saw one tank holding like 10 guys. Imagine what couple tanks can do or 3.

Keep 30 dumb asses busy for a short time?

While the rest kill them?

Ive no problems with current tanks, but I say they are at the borderline.

Of course you have no problem with tanks right now, they're crappy right now lol

Crappy? When tanks were at its best, they were able to tank 20+ guy, that was with perma block.

Yeah...which they can't do right now......a tank who is perma blocking is doing no damage to you. What harm is there in that? There was a video on these forums recently of a sorc kind of complaining about perma blocking still being a problem. The funny part is the video shows the guy kill 2 or 3 guys without losing a lot of health thanks to the shield stacking and then it took him 2 or 3 minutes or so to kill the dk who was literally just standing there blocking. Did nothing but block, probably burned through all his pots and recourses just to stay alive, doing ZERO damage. A dk who is blocking is doing you no harm. I feel like people having trouble with perma blockers was more of a l2p issue. They're not incredibly hard to deal with, light attacks and cc's.

the issue was people could perma block WHILE using offensive skills. It would take one some time to burn thru the blocker's stamina, but by then they would almost be dead. CCs did not go thru block either, so fear would not work. I myself am glad to see those days gone.

You are wrong about CCs, in particular fear, and I therefore question the validity of your opinion. (The days that you are glad to see gone where perma-blockers were allegedly unaffected by fear)

TwoFingersInCider · January 2016

Don't care either way

Decado wrote: »

nemen_wavenub18_ESO wrote: »

Decado wrote: »

While perma blocking MAY have been a problem in PvP (can anyone say fear) this was a huge nerf to PvE one that was done without thought of the consequences, I am and have always been against this nerf my opinion ZoS really screwed up on this one,

IF and that is a big if, it was such a problem in PvP they Could of added it into the battle spirit,

They definitely should of taken there time with this maybe reduce it to 50% while blocking and see how that works, from
100% to nothing was so heavy handed and clearly not thought out.

How many PvE tanks either quit the game or changed to DPS after this went live? I know of many, for me finding a good tank is much much harder than it used to be,

And for the people who say "just holding block was a boring way to tank" I ask the same question I have always asked and seem to be ignored;

When have you ever been forced to just hold block?

I never understood that these "pro" tanks claiming it was a good thing since they no longer had to just hold block, I always say you never had to before, it didn't add in the fun of having to let go, you could
Already of done that if you choose to

Agree the only reason I revert back from dps to tanking again is my guild mates desparate need a tank.. Hahaha but I'm happy with the changes you guys just have to adopt to it.. Like me wasted over hundredth thousands of gold just to figure out what build I'm happy with..(do heavy tanking while still dishing out tons of dmage)

Yeah i know what you mean, once the change came in i tried it didnt like it, rerolled my DK into stam dps, had it about a week guild needed tanks so i rerolled again as a tank, i can tank all the 4 man content no problem but honestly its boring i only do it when mates need a tank for a run, i much prefer my sorc DPS or my magicka DK, so much more fun, hell i even prefer healing (although i mainly jab and throw the occasional heal )

like i said tanking is still very possible to do, and alot of guys adapted well enough, but more either couldnt adapt or found the changes boring and rerolled or even a few left the game entirely.

i also didnt know that about console, thats kinda sucky, they really need to look into that for you guys, id hate to run my stam nb if roll dodge stopped my rejen

Yea.. It's true boring as hel* but with my build that I'm using its a mix of pure tanking in one skill bar and utility/dps in the 2nd skill bar and I'm liking it so far..

TwoFingersInCider · January 2016

Don't care either way

Personofsecrets wrote: »

nemen_wavenub18_ESO wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

nemen_wavenub18_ESO wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

BackFreckle wrote: »

I'd like them to bring it back for pve honestly, strictly Templar healing is getting quite dull. I've never seen so much hate for my NB healer and I have no room to expirement unless I'm strictly with friends. And yes I've seen ppl heal everything with every class but have fun convincing pugs that you know what you're doing

I understand that tanks are doing just fine and it adds "skill" or "fun" or something aand that's cool and all but I'm tired of being used just for my shards and not for my healing ability

(Yes the response to this is run with friends/guildies but they're not always available)

It adds "skill" or so called "fun" for about the top .01% of players. Everyone else wishes that they could still use caltrops.

I soo agree.. I wish I could use caltrops more often..but I already adapted to this new no stam regen/permablock meta so I'm good with/without stam regen while blocking... 5pc kagnerac/5pc footmans with spell damage jewelry enchant FTW! (Sometimes I use 5pc kagnerac/5pc pariah)

@Wrobel , I had just unlocked Vigor because of the patch changes to the skill. I wanted to magic tank with that skill for so darn long and pretty much got denied from doing that cool thing because of the nerf. I took off deep slash and caltrops too. Thanks for making tanking better.

I actually think they made a tanking better. IMHO. Well this wouldn't have been done without the new set that they release.. But I wish they should take a look more about DK skill line as a whole...

You should try magicka tankKnight it's fun.. It's the most rewarding tank you'll ever do. It's so much more viable than stam tankKnight cause you deal more damage as magicka tank than stamina tank. Plus it Gives you more utility in the team..

Try this build.. Currently using 5pc kagnerac/5pcs pariah (with spell damage jewelry enchant ) EG monster set, sword and board main/destro staff offhand..
Skill bar1: eruption/puncture/absorb magic/heroic slash/coagulating blood. Ultimate:standard of might
Skill bar2: dark talon/(I switch between force pulse or pulsar depending what type of dungeon were doing eg. For lots of adds I use pulsar, for single target like specially inhibitor (WGT 3rd boss) force pulse or the other morph either way )/volatile armor/ (Vigor/inner rage/extended chain) / burning embers. Ultimate: magma shell
Dampen magic or harness magicka but I prefer Dampen magic.
You could also change eruption to igneous shield good skill too specially along with vigor

Stats fully buff... 23k magicka 31k health 20k stamina 1500 magicka recov 450 health recovery 500 stam recovery 1800 spell damage 1200 weapon damage 33k spell resist 29k physical resist. That's my fought estimate of my skill currently not playing atm but I'm positive that's is nearly all my stats maybe even more... Btw all prismatic enhant all divines except for larger pcs.. Boots and shield exploration

Edit: forgot to mention I'm a imperial race aswell

I already run this

Just to be clear, I'm not saying things are hard, I am saying that now things that could be done before are now not viable. I'm also saying that no amount of change or adaptation necessarily makes something turn fun. It doesn't.

Edit: Minus valkyn add engine guardian. That is my build.

You probably have some high dps right there while still tanking

I might try that's aswell.. But I'm sticking to my kagnerac hope

that extra spell dmage(95) and 25% reduce resurrection time.. And more health. But yea nice build

Therium104 · January 2016

Yes please bring back perma-block

Sausage wrote: »

No, shield blockers are still OP. Just yesterday saw one tank holding like 10 guys. Imagine what couple tanks can do or 3.

Except that Tank "shield blocker" does not kill anyone. They need to change block back to the way it was. What is the problem with a Tank class that can survive but low damage?

Therium104 · January 2016

Yes please bring back perma-block

hydrocynus wrote: »

It made me completely rework my build for tanking PVE and I am having far more fun now. I must add that I was one of the "This is the end of tanking in ESO" brigade prior to the change but am happy to have found a way. I had to evolve from full stamina to a hybrid and most recently onto a full magicka based tank and in the process I have actually seen my damage output increase without even trying to do any damage (I mean I am tanking 100% but damage output is higher).

I could start using damage skills like inhale and burning embers to restore resources and since I am magicka based I am able to swap magicka for stamina myself with eruption. All offensive skills but being used primarily to balance my resources with the offshoot of dealing more damage and so just plain all round fun.

Then there is the added bonus of using more chains for the group too. Do this for your DPS and they will love you for the numbers they get and magicka/hybrid Tanking really helps with that too.

It's quite a liberating experience to stand in front of a crematorial guard and not block once while holding aggro (absorb magicka is your friend here! Amazing healing ability in that fire) and in addition you actually get to have your weapon enchants actually proc from swinging them.

Oh. Then since I have gone full magicka and am a Dunmer DK I now have the ability to scrap the heavy armor, pick up a staff and do decent damage when required without changing CP (inhibitor fight - no more carrying mr tank through this fight. Portals no issue). My tank is no longer a one trick pony!

Sure you must block for extended periods against the daddy bossess of ESO but this is still very much manageable without stamina regeneration while blocking. It wasn't easy just after the change. I had raid leaders screaming at me for wiping the raid due to resource mismanagement but with time once I knew how to handle it it was fine and I can now easily tank those challenging bosses without issue.

Before this change I got by tanking at a relatively high level, tanking all trials vDSA and dungeons in good groups and hard modes, and I knew actually very little about my class and my role. Since the change I have learned a ton about my class and role and feel I am a better tank and eso player in general because of it.

Lol. Whatever man. They need to change blocking back to the way it was.

tennant94 · January 2016

Yes please bring back perma-block

I disagree despite what my vote says. Stamina builds are already strong with there constant cc breaks and dodge rolls.

Kolache · January 2016

No keep it gone

Reminds me of endless bolt escape debates. "If they can flee every time they aren't killing you" sounds similar to "who cares if they don't die they can't kill you."

Fun and exciting

Tavore1138 · January 2016

Yes please bring back perma-block

Either stamina regen while blocking should be restored OR magicka regen while blocking should be prevented as well.

LorDrek · January 2016

Yes please bring back perma-block

This need for pve, no pvp.

DevonoftheDrakeSeal · January 2016

Yes please bring back perma-block

I would like to say that zeroing this out was a bad idea, maybe making it drain more stamina would of been more suffice to keep sword and board more fun and useful in Dungeons.

Edziu · January 2016

Don't care either way

Therium104 wrote: »

Except that Tank "shield blocker" does not kill anyone. They need to change block back to the way it was. What is the problem with a Tank class that can survive but low damage?

heh, so you must be new player, I remeber days when DK was be OP for all, perm block, vampire ulti or standar + some aoe, dk was be immortal when group of 20 people hitting him and half of this group was killed by this dk

for todayt it will be same story but with nb no dk, shadow/vampire ulti + deto, much stronger hits will be i think + also selfhealing with sap essence, we cant make it again on pvp also with other class, it cant became again when 1 person on perm block is spamming aoe and staying in live nuking by 20 people with killeing 50%+ of this group, no thank you, i dont want again to see 1 person holding full raid in few mins with killing half of the this raid

Jar_Ek · January 2016

Perma blocking, no. Block casting, no (you should always have to drop block to use skills imo, just not for long). Some regeneration whilst blocking, yes. Maybe via 5pc heavy or a CP perk.

shepardTHEweak · January 2016

me,me,me,me,me,me,me,me,me,me,me,me,me,me,me,me,me oh yeah and ME

imredneckson · January 2016

Yes please bring back perma-block

Therium104 wrote: »

hydrocynus wrote: »

It made me completely rework my build for tanking PVE and I am having far more fun now. I must add that I was one of the "This is the end of tanking in ESO" brigade prior to the change but am happy to have found a way. I had to evolve from full stamina to a hybrid and most recently onto a full magicka based tank and in the process I have actually seen my damage output increase without even trying to do any damage (I mean I am tanking 100% but damage output is higher).

I could start using damage skills like inhale and burning embers to restore resources and since I am magicka based I am able to swap magicka for stamina myself with eruption. All offensive skills but being used primarily to balance my resources with the offshoot of dealing more damage and so just plain all round fun.

Then there is the added bonus of using more chains for the group too. Do this for your DPS and they will love you for the numbers they get and magicka/hybrid Tanking really helps with that too.

It's quite a liberating experience to stand in front of a crematorial guard and not block once while holding aggro (absorb magicka is your friend here! Amazing healing ability in that fire) and in addition you actually get to have your weapon enchants actually proc from swinging them.

Oh. Then since I have gone full magicka and am a Dunmer DK I now have the ability to scrap the heavy armor, pick up a staff and do decent damage when required without changing CP (inhibitor fight - no more carrying mr tank through this fight. Portals no issue). My tank is no longer a one trick pony!

Sure you must block for extended periods against the daddy bossess of ESO but this is still very much manageable without stamina regeneration while blocking. It wasn't easy just after the change. I had raid leaders screaming at me for wiping the raid due to resource mismanagement but with time once I knew how to handle it it was fine and I can now easily tank those challenging bosses without issue.

Before this change I got by tanking at a relatively high level, tanking all trials vDSA and dungeons in good groups and hard modes, and I knew actually very little about my class and my role. Since the change I have learned a ton about my class and role and feel I am a better tank and eso player in general because of it.

Lol. Whatever man. They need to change blocking back to the way it was.

I don't think it should be the same as it was but their should be something to help balance it out like a 5 heavy armor passive, you deal less damage with your shield up, 50% to 70% reduction in stamina regen, etc. but the way it was it was OP