Cathexis wrote: »

Abra wrote: »

can we have anti-zerg and such called "small scale" raids passives for solo players- such as no ap gained for 30 mins or no aoe for 30 mins

Those seem like pretty harsh penalties but I agree with the general idea. You could achieve a similar effect by giving players bonuses that make them stronger when they are horribly outnumbered. For example say giving a cp bonus that in a 3-4v1 scenario or higher damage received is reduced by 95% and damage output is increased by 100%. This type of function could also feed into the role of tanking based builds and abilities for PvP to give tanking more of a role in that area. An even better way to achieve that might be to have those reductions and increases increase as players take damage while solo, so if you are fighting nightblades or DPS heavy builds the reductions scale up quickly, while if you are fighting a group of low damage tanks the bonus will only increase slowly.

Dynamic Ultimate filled the same niche back in the day. Ultimates balance 1vX situations, especially ultimates that scale with the number of enemies like Empowering Sweep. Dynamic ultimate increased your ultimate gain in proportion to the number of enemies you fought. The system was great at reducing the numbers advantage though it also heavily rewarded crit builds (the old system granted ultimate for landing critical hits in addition to performing other actions).

• Steed- shield expert- would like to know if this only applies to board shields or cast shields as well.
• Lord- nourishing- would like to know if this only applies to health potions per se or if my spell crit potion which also has healing effects is affected by this.
• Tower- war mount- is not worth the CP cost if your horse is already maxed for speed and stam, the characters who would benefit most from this would be low level and not have the CP to expend.

While this is a great first step in tackling the imbalances of the champion tree.. why not take it a step further... and allow the constellations of the champion tree to be something we specialize our character doing at end game. We have Mage for offense, Theif for sustain and Warrior for tank. You can make it so that if you want to be build your character for burst dps, then they can only put points into the Mage constellation and lock out the other two constellations. Right now, everyone can do everything with enough champion points, this simple change could prevent that.

There needs to be a star that counters bastion. Shields have no weakness other than one armor set right now. Also, if your goal is to balance the CP then there needs to be a counter for Bastion.

The game, and especially the champion system, has too many percentage-based buffs. Static increases would slow down the power creep and make it easier to balance.

THis is a micro-critique of the current CP system:

Warrior [Defensive capabilities. Each point increases health]
Issues:
Nourishing:
Comparatively this star is weak as the benefit is effectively limited by the cooldown of the potion.
[Heavy/Medium/Light] Armour Focus:
The armour focus skills favour heavier armour types as they are a direct percentage increase to the Armour rating. Thus they provide a greater benefit for heavier armour users, whereas they should provide an equivalent level of benefit for all armour types but not necessarily in the same way (for example light armour boosts spell resist, heavy boosts physical, and medium boost both but ½ as effectively - or provide a % increase to all the armour type passives).
Bastion:
This does not have a direct counter within the champion point system – so you cannot do more damage to, or some damage through, or have a chance to critical, wards via the CP system, but you can increase the effectiveness of wards. A CP star that allowed you to bypass the shield for a % of your damage done would solve this (i.e. X% of damage bypasses shields and goes to armour and health instead)
Placement
The placement of the stars within the constellations do not seem to make much sense. For example it would be logical to group Heavy Armour and Block rather than Medium Armour and Block. However given the current passives I am not sure that there is a way to make it better without causing other problems – if the passives were changed then it would be more feasible.
Passive Perks
Determination:
This ability is very weak for a 120pt ability – a 1.2k shield is less than a light attack in damage absorption per 30+ seconds (potion cooldown). It should be removed completely and replaced with something worthy of 120pts.
Resilient:
This ability provides a tiny health return when you have been critically hit… so low as to be negligible. Maybe the health return should be scaled in some way (player health)? Currently it is less than a light attack in healing.
Block Expertise:
This ability suffers from multiple diminishing returns as it is essentially reduced in capability the more “tanky” you are (i.e. the more block reduction passives/enchants/etc you have). If this were changed to provide the percentage of your stamina regeneration you kept whilst blocking it would be better and solve many of the issues associated with the current no stamina regeneration whilst blocking. The exact number would need to be decided - but probably no more than 50% at 100pts and maybe less (25%?).
Reinforced:
This ability is relatively weak for a 120pt ability – a 1.2k shield is less than a light attack in damage absorption per 10 seconds. It is however about 3 times better than Determination as the cooldown is 3x better. Personally I think this should be at more like 2x or 3x as high in terms of shielding.
Resurrection:
All the resurrection passives have limited applicability and are therefore relatively weak in that they only have an effect when you are resurrected or are resurrecting.

Thief [Utility capabilities. Each point increases stamina]
Issues:
There is no crafting constellation or any perks that really impact on crafting other than Inspiration which only really helps with secondary crafter characters as 1st characters will be levelling crafts whilst getting to 50 - before they can get any CP.
There should really be some crafter stars or perks to reduce time to learn traits (perk); to increase chance of getting rare crafting materials, motifs, and tempers; etc
Passive Perks
Inspiration:
This is a weak ability for many characters as they have nothing more to learn.
Shadowstrike:
Although a nice idea it is not in keeping with the rest of the constellations for Thief as this is a combat perk - not a stealth or utility perk. Maybe this should be replaced with a non-combat, utility perk related to stealth gameplay - esp. with the upcomming Thieves Guild DLC.

Mage [Offensive capabilities. Each point increases magicka]
Issues:
Elfborn:
What about non magicka healing? Vigor / Rally where is the elfborn equivalent for these?
Thaumaturge:
A magic damage increase in a physical /weapon crit tree is very annoying for magicka builds.
Bow Expert:
All other “expert” skill lines deal with 2 weapon types.
Passive Perks
Perfect Strike and Spell Precision are far, far better than any other passives in the CP system and the appropriate one is essentially a requirement for all non-Tank builds – why not have them as stars that cost points (but not up to 25%, maybe 15% at 100pts) instead of passive perks. This effect could be added to Precise Strikes and Elfborn and 2 new passive perks added.


Anyway a few thoughts for you.

I don't mine the system now, but you 100% need to ensure changes update the Character screen on console. Same with all the sets etc so you can see / compare your changes

I know it is is not the PC answer but I tend to like the champion point system. I don't like the skill trees, like magic one, because I want to put the points everywhere. Some of the other trees are useless to me but I still get points in them. I wish that you could earn points to put in whatever category you want and not be restricted to a color.

Take out the champion point system. Give us 1,000 gold for each point we had, and then take out battle spirit. I would also suggest balancing out the gear in the game to make up for the lost stats.

Nerouyn wrote: »

It takes combat from something I'm in control of and mutates it into some kind of freakish slot machine.

That's why I don't like critical chance either. The bonus damage is something nice to see but unless I can count on it triggering, I will not focus on it in my builds.

It's a side note, and has little to with the thread's topic, but critical hits should be skill based rather than luck based. I only know of 5 instances where critical hits have been successfully implemented as skill based systems and I am doubtful they can be implemented into ESO within 6 months.

• FPSRPGs and FPSs in general inflict critical damage for striking weak points. For humanoid enemies, this is the head. For other beasts and monstrosities, it may be a pustule, eye, mouth, etc. Borderlands is a good example of this system.
• Parrying an enemy is a system I have only seen in Demon's Souls, Dark Souls, Dark Souls 2 and Bloodborne, which involves timing a parry to deflect an opponent's strike mid-swing. A successful parry leaves the opponent open to a riposte a.k.a. a critical hit.
• Positioning based criticals have been implemented by the same games above as well as others, most recently Black Desert Online, which are predominantly backstabs. Get behind an enemy and attack to initiate a backstab, scoring critical damage (Souls/borne series). Or receive a damage multiplier such as for Back Attacks in Black Desert Online. Black Desert Online also has Down Attacks, which are a separate multiplier for attacking CC-ed enemies.
• Counter based critical hits have been implemented in several series, including the Souls/borne series, though they are not critical hits there. Attack an enemy while they are in the middle of an action (presumably an attack) to score critical damage. Megaman Battle Network has implemented this under the name of Counter, and a successful Counter will deal double damage and stun the enemy. In the Souls/borne series this is referred to as Counter Damage and has a separate multiplier for each weapon, starting at 10% increased damage scaling up to 50% increased damage; the target must be in a non idle and non staggered/stunned state for counter damage to be inflicted.
• This last method of scoring critical hits I have only seen implemented by the mod Duke Patrick's Archery - Heavy - Light Weapons - H2H - Combat Magic for The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim: Armor Gaps. With this mod installed, aiming for gaps in an opponent's armor will allow the strike to ignore Armor Rating and the subsequent mitigation. The armor gaps to aim for are matched closely to the graphical gaps on the armors themselves, though a default of the various joints is used for non-recognized, non-vanilla armors.

Of these critical hit systems, Positioning and Counters are the most feasible for ESO. The game's aiming system is not setup for Weak Spots or Armor Gaps, and a new maneuver is required for Parries. Positioning will require the server keep track of player facing, something I do not think it currently does judging from block arc (360 degrees) and detection radius (seems to be a circle).

Counters may be easier to implement, as the server can check if the player is on the global ability cooldown when taking damage. Counter windows are not necessarily for the full attack animation/cooldown. i.e. Counters are successful in Megaman Battle Network when hitting the opponent during the several frames of windup, when the attack is being prepared; this can be as short as 1 frame. The server can check if the cooldown timer is over 0.5 seconds to deal Counter damage or some similar value, requiring precise timing and reaction on the attacker's part.

When replacing the luck based critical hit there will be the issue of critical chance modifiers, which are abundant in set effects, potion effects and abilities. Aside from replacing these modifiers with other current modifiers (weapon damage, spell damage, max stamina, max magicka, max health, stamina recovery, etc.) they can become modifiers to critical damage. Small modifiers. And the Weapon/Spell Critical Rating stat on character sheets can change to show Weapon/Spell Critical Modifier. Damage Shields can also be changed to crittable or partially crittable, reducing critical damage. The reason Damage Shields should stay noncrittable currently is because of how prolific critical hits are. With critical hits moved to a skill based system, their occurrence is reduced and predictable (player controlled), rendering the hard counter overkill.

As for Critical Rate -> Critical Modifier, the stat can be shown as 1XX% or XX% in the character sheet, representing the multiplier for base damage as a percentage (i.e. 150% or 50% for the current modifier). The base value for Critical Modifier will need to be tweaked in accordance with how large the window for Counter is. The larger the window, the lower the base value. For example, if the window is 0.7 seconds (check if cooldown > 0.3) then the base Critical Modifier is 110% or 10% because it is very likely to deal critical damage. A window of 0.1 seconds would have a base Critical Modifier of 170% or 70% because it is very unlikely to deal critical damage. Critical Rate bonuses from sets and other sources will use the same formula as currently with an added multiplier within the range of 0.2 to 0.5 (100% Rate = 20% Modifier, 100% Rate = 50% Modifier). Using the examples of base modifiers above, the maximum Critical Modifier for the 0.7 second window is 130% (0.2) or 160% (0.5) and for the 0.1 second window 190% (0.2) or 220% (0.5). These maximum values do not take into account Champion Points or Mundus Stones (Thief and Shadow, specifically). As the average DPS Critical Rate is around 60%, for the same windows there will be Critical Modifiers of 122% (0.2), 140% (0.5) and 182% (0.2), 200% (0.5), respectively. The added Critical Modifier from sets and other sources is at the discretion of the Combat & Itemization Team in regards to how much of an advantage building around critical hits should yield. A multiplier beyond 0.5 is feasible but advised against for the x1.5 and x2.0 modifiers achievable ingame result in plenty of extra damage.

Side note over.


Addendum: Implementing a counter system as described above will change the pacing of combat. During combat, the attacker will wait for the defender to strike and attack a split second afterwards to land within the counter window. Because the cooldown is a universal 1 second, the attacker will always strike within the counter window (dealing critical damage) assuming both attacker and defender are striking as often as the 1 second cooldown will allow. To prevent critical hits, the defender will pause their assault for a split second to get the attacker's rhythm offbeat of the counter window. Since the cooldown prevents attacking faster, the attacker will respond by also pausing a split second to correct the rhythm. The overall effect is a slightly slower, more deliberate pace to combat.

If the counter window is relatively large and the critical modifier relatively low, the above pace change will not happen because either most attacks will be critical or the extra damage is not worth the added layer of skill. A critical modifier of 110% is just such a relatively low value, however I cannot say at which percentage the advantage (critical damage) begins to outweigh the disadvantage (paced attacks).

The issue of channeled and cast attacks was not mentioned in the original draft. The counter window for such abilities can be for the full cast/channel time, for the standard window after casting or follow the same rule as instant abilities (window starts after activation/button press).

Having the counter window be the full cast/channel duration punishes using such abilities without caution. This would be ideal to balance powerful cast/channel abilities by making them much riskier to use. Things such as Crystal Fragments spam, Puncturing Sweep spam and Wrecking Blow spam will become hazardous, and the result will either be more diverse attack patterns or a lower TTK. Cast/channel times are considered bad by the playerbase because they restrict attack and/or movement speed, yet we still see them spammed. They have to be either very powerful abilities or the only worthwhile abilities available to use. So making the counter window for the full cast/channel duration is either finally balancing a foo strategy or discouraging the use of the only useful abilities.

Placing the counter window after the cast/channel has finished puts the caster in danger for a longer period of time because on top of also be potentially interrupted or CC-ed, if the cast/channel is successful the caster then becomes more susceptible to damage. Again, a way to balance a foo strategy, but it also makes the ability less fun to use since the caster is punished for using it correctly.

Treating cast/channel abilities like instant abilities is the safest route, as it increases the hazard of using cast/channel abilities without making them more hazardous than other abilities. This implementation also rewards players for interrupting swiftly, as the bash will score critical damage on top of the bonus interrupt damage. It will not discourage spamming cast/channel abilities like the first implementation, though.

Depending on how many other useful abilities there are, the first or third implementation of counter windows on cast/channel abilities is optimal. The first discourages use of foo strategies and more diverse attack patterns, but if the alternate attacks are not there, the implementation will result in faster TTK as players continue to spam cast/channel attacks.

This counter system also provides a slight incentive to use basic attacks more as they do not trigger the ability cooldown, not creating a counter window.

CP needs to be maxed at 10% not 25%. Playing on the non CP campaign showed me how much the CP system contributes to the spam ability fest we have in pvp. I spammed very little skills and i found myself in magicka problem just because of no CP

neptunium wrote: »

I wish that you could earn points to put in whatever category you want and not be restricted to a color.

Absolutely.

Elder Scrolls = FREEDOM OF CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT. Or should.

Forcing players to spread points between all 3 is just arbitrary and over-designed.

Nightwolfmenace wrote: »

You can make it so that if you want to be build your character for burst dps, then they can only put points into the Mage constellation and lock out the other two constellations. Right now, everyone can do everything with enough champion points, this simple change could prevent that.

Personally I'd prefer a cap on CP so you can't have them all at once, but let us spend points wherever we want.

And respec without a fee. In ES single-player games I never had to pay a fee or create a new character if I felt like switching from magic to melee - except for Skyrim pre the patch. Just equip different gear. Punish me for wanting to change how I play and I'll just get bored with and stop spending money on the game a lot quicker.

Allow for becoming better at specifics with weapons and action.
Example:
1. The Bow - invest in shooting farther, increasing accuracy (crit chance), faster draw, holding the shot and overpowering the bow.
2. Two handed weapons- increase speed - right now any character of any size has the same weapon speed limitations. It seems like an Orc or Nord should swing a 2x Handed sword faster than a Bosmer. Investments in strength would help this.
3. Climbing - rock climbing, wall climbing, jumping, allowing ways of exploring other than the designated routes

Commish wrote: »

Allow for becoming better at specifics with weapons and action.
Example:
1. The Bow - invest in shooting farther, increasing accuracy (crit chance), faster draw, holding the shot and overpowering the bow.
2. Two handed weapons- increase speed - right now any character of any size has the same weapon speed limitations. It seems like an Orc or Nord should swing a 2x Handed sword faster than a Bosmer. Investments in strength would help this.
3. Climbing - rock climbing, wall climbing, jumping, allowing ways of exploring other than the designated routes

The bow and 2 handed weapon changes I can agree with.
Climbing is something on an entirely different ballgame. The way that ESO has set up the buildings, cliffs, and whatnot makes it next to impossible to implement this. I'm not saying it is completely impossible, but they would need to add mechanics into the game that currently do not exist.

that said, I would be totally up for this (although it shouldn't be in the champion point system). I feel like if ZOS were to implement this, they would need to add new content or change the aspect that every single building and structure were made out of, rather than blocks and triangles (where you can't stand on a triangle). And with every single building and structure changed as such, that would probably increase loading time, lag (because of new features that the game has to load), and latency (more information). However, it might be possible if they implement it like Tomb Raider or those other single/multiplayer games that utilize climbing.