People change their minds about stuff all the time like when they realize their idea was a bad idea, etc. Did they sign a contract saying the PvP Justice System would be implemented? I don't even remember them promising it would be implemented. Anyways, I'm glad they decided to cancel that 'cuz it was a bad idea.

I voted in favor of it because I have no clue how it would affect the game if it were to be added, and as long as players are not forced into pvp when committing crimes, I'm cool with it.

They might tell us more about this decision in the ESO Live episode of tomorrow.

Even damn Age of Conan was able to do that, i dont see any reasons why it shouldnt work in eso but i guess the limitation here is the bad team behind this game.

It's a waste of time and resources, the PvP crowd would surely want Arenas or Battlegrounds more than shoe-horned world PvP.

The system would be pretty hard to implement without affecting people who like the PvE side of justice (Dealing with guards/npcs without worrying about player gankers) such as myself.

Sylance9 wrote: »

Ive played several games that implemented a justice / player bounty system. Let me tell you, it completely changes the feel of the game in a good way.

For those that have never played a game with a player bounty system: There is nothing more exciting, then knowing you have an active bounty, and at any moment, could be attacked by someone collecting on it. It makes you be more careful, adds suspense, and gives you a whole new aspect of gameplay. Making sure your gear is repaired 100% just in case, food buffs kicking. Don't diss on it until you try it.

For those who say it breaks immersion: How? How is being killed by a player any different than being smacked down by a NPC? Would you get away with stealing the equivalent of skooma from someone in real life? Maybe the guy you stole the potato from wasn't happy with the guards response so he hired someone to come after you? If anything it adds MORE realism to the game.

For those who say its bad for RP'ers: If anything it makes RP better. My first game was SWG and I had many occasions where I was RPing and suddenly I saw bounty hunters coming for me. It actually made for some pretty exciting RP. Trying to explain, or come up with a cover story of why you had someone hunting you added an element of excitement, and made you appear more exotic (or hoodlum-y) to someone.

For those saying "I Don't want to get ganked": Ok. Fair enough. But did you see them actually say being ganked was part of the pvp aspect of it? Have you seen a outline of how it would be implemented? No? Didnt think so. So really you have no ground to stand on when making that stance. No one has any idea how they would have implemented it so I dont understand how everyone is jumping on the gank band wagon. Maybe it would work so only VR16 players could take VR16 bounties and so on in teirs. We don't know, and that's the point.

The point of his poll was to see how many would be interested in this being implemented in some form. I am extremely dissapointed that they decided to take this out. I was excited when I saw them implement the justice system thinking one day they would get to the player bounty aspect of it.

I told you I would give you your potato back. Now call off the hit please?

It's certainly interesting that a higher proportion of those who have played a game with a PvP Justice System opposes it in ESO compared with those who have not played such a game.

Usually one would expect there to be an argument that most people opposed to something have never tried it, the inference being that if they had tried it they'd like it, but the poll results so far suggest the opposite is true. The proportion of those who oppose it in ESO rises when they have had experience of it elsewhere.

Gidorick wrote: »

@Elloa, First and foremost, your son's age has absolutely zero bearing on this conversation. Just because he is a child doesn't mean he should be except of gameplay mechanics and ZOS should never, EVER, design ESO with the thought "well... children play this game... so..."

Anyone, regardless of age, should have to answer for their actions within game through the justice system, NPC Guard or Player Enforcer.

I would prefer to see ANY players who commit crimes be able to be attacked, BUT I can understand the side of the players that don't want to be hunted for pickpocketing a random NPC or accidentally healing someone running from the guards. There needs to be a "threshold" that players must pass to get to the PVP portion of the game.

Any system that just lets players "toggle" PVP is pointless and I hope to never see the PVP portion of the justice system implemented in this half hearted way. a HUGE part of the concept of Justice PVP is a consequence for those that break the law... allowing players to just not accept that consequence is not a solution. That's not a PVP justice component. That's PVP dueling with a pretty lame "entrance" requirement.

I can see it now...

• "Hey dude... wanna fight?"
  
• "Sure! Let me toggle PVP"
• "Ok... you've got it toggled right?"
• "Yea, do you?"
• "Yea. Weird. Why can't I hit you then?"
• "OH! I need a bounty..." *player steals an apple*

The Justice System PVP could have been a way to bring the two communities together. I'm glad you agree with the high bounty "flag" for the PVP justice system @Elloa. I commend you for being able to see the value in such a requirement. @patraeus and those that have suggested this are on track with the concept. Personally, I'd prefer it be associated with heat (as I previously mentioned) so that a player who gradually increases their bounty with petty crimes isn't flagged for PVP. If the only way players can go from Wanted heat to Fugitive heat is to flee from or kill a guard while at Wanted (a new heat level between Notorious and Fugitive) heat level or. I could even see players not reaching Fugitive kill-on-sight status if they kill an NPC... make it so that a player MUST be apprehended by a guard and then they must run away from or kill that guard in order to be subject to player enforcers.

Player enforcers should be seen as the "big guns" here. When the guards can't apprehend the criminal... the players step in to do the job for them.

Players would have to make a VERY deliberate decision to disobey the law since we can currently toggle NPC killing off. ZOS could even add "(Running will toggle PVP)" next to the "Run" option when a guard apprehends a player who is currently at the Wanted level of heat.

A system could have been implanted that is fair for everyone... ZOS is just taking the same route with the Justice System PVP that they are taking with underwater exploration. It's easier to just not try and they don't think they'll loose any customers over it... I think they might be surprised on this one.

Oh, and I guarantee pretty much ANY PVP player would decimate me if there was Justice System PVP. I say again: I'm part of the PVE community. I'm not a PVP player. I just recognize unique gameplay mechanic opportunities when I see them.

Spot on!

I agree completely that if ever implemented it should not be half baked.
Restricting the PvP component to certain maps instead of the "opt in" option everywhere would be a good solution.

I already suggested Cadwell zones be reworked into Enforcer vs Outlaw hunting grounds. Those zones will lose their sole purpose of veteran rank grind once the VRs are removed. Maybe make the "home base" in the new DLC map, where people can pick up and hand in dailies, but spreading it to Cadwell zones would really widen the field.
Also, tying this kind of system to battle leveled maps makes a bit of a balance for all players participating.

Also, one thing to make very clear for all those that really want this implemented for the sole purpose of dueling:
This is not the place for it.
Arenas will come, don't you worry, and hopefully by then we will have class balance, but until then, this should only be added as depth in a currently really barren system they call "Justice system".

To clarify: Enforcers should be given an advantage in fighting Outlaws, to discourage intentional PvP. The goal for Outlaws should be to steal as much stuff as possible without getting caught and profit from it.

Details in my signature.

Sylance9 wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

It's certainly interesting that a higher proportion of those who have played a game with a PvP Justice System opposes it in ESO compared with those who have not played such a game.

Usually one would expect there to be an argument that most people opposed to something have never tried it, the inference being that if they had tried it they'd like it, but the poll results so far suggest the opposite is true. The proportion of those who oppose it in ESO rises when they have had experience of it elsewhere.

@Tandor For those opposed to it. 41 never tried one, and 28 have. I think you misread it.

You can't simply look at the numbers of those opposed to it without comparing those numbers with the corresponding numbers for those who are in favour of it together with the resulting total numbers combined. That is to say, what proportion of those who have never played such a game are against it in ESO, and how does that compare with the proportion of those who have played such a game?

Using the poll figures at the time I write this:-

223 respondents have never played a game with a PvP Justice System, of which 41 (18.38%) are against such a system in ESO.

109 respondents have played a game with a PvP Justice System, of which 28 (25.68%) are against such a system in ESO.

Conclusion: A higher proportion of those who have played such a game (25.68%) are opposed to a PvP Justice System in ESO than the proportion of those who have never played such a game (18.38%).

not going to read the post version:
they should do it and they are just being lazy (again) about the situation.

full version:
i am a moderate to mild (mild being the average norm for me) PVPer, and i think that removing the PVP component is a bad idea. for my personal, in my head only RP, i had interest in being an enforcer. to be honest, i would not likely participate heavily in the justice system still, as its just not something (pvp in general) i have ever willingly or wanted to be heavy in. so essentially, the justice system was kinda like fishing, where its fun to do every once in a while, but not all the time. that being the case, without the PVP part, i have no interest in the justice system from the bottom up. if the world was truly open, and for example AD players could access DC areas, i would probably be much more open to playing either side- enforcer or outlaw.

as far as "how it can be done", why not have it be based on NPC attention- get caught by an NPC and you're flagged and/or kill the NPC witnesses and lose the flag. don't want to get flagged? don't get caught.... right now, the system has a "smash and grab" feel to it. instead of battle-leveling to max level, why not battle-level players down to the zone's level and have caps on stats. yes, i know the CP's would still be a commanding factor, but i think it would be a lesser evil. this type of battle-leveling should probably be done for PVE reasons anyways, to keep "higher" players from over grinding mobs and inhibiting others from progressing quests etc, while still allowing players to enjoy that content regardless to level. i already can hear the "the CP system is OP" crowd so .... yeah.... okay then, your stance is acknowledged....

theres another part that i think is a big issue.... what are they going to do about guards? they have god-mode right now, because they felt it would give a "risk" aspect to theft and murder, which was set to be removed when enforcers were implemented. this has been something i defended with explanation in the past, but now it there really isn't a huge justification. its a pretty bad "risk" modifier, since all you need to do is understand AI mechanics to get away from them (there is a forum post regarding evading guards that is pretty good: see link at bottom). if they make it so guards can be killed, then you will have the same "i don't want city combat/combat where im fighting outside of vanilla PVE" effect. how is that "fun and challenging" to get caught, evade capture, and increase your bounty which can be paid off or lapsed while offline? i get the vibe, that some who don't want the PVP side, really just don't want to lose their cash-cow...

looking at it from another possible view point, perhaps this could aid with alleviating issues with cyrodiil, be spreading the PVP population over a larger area of the game. fewer players condensed in one area, can help alleviate server burdens.

either way, this is why i don't take ESO and ZOS seriously in most, if not all, respects. i don't put a huge focus on spending time in this game, because they start something half-assed, and finish it half-assed. take that for what you will...

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-GB/discussion/206484/criminal-scum-101-the-truth-about-guards-and-their-mechanics#latest

Tandor wrote: »

It's certainly interesting that a higher proportion of those who have played a game with a PvP Justice System opposes it in ESO compared with those who have not played such a game.

Usually one would expect there to be an argument that most people opposed to something have never tried it, the inference being that if they had tried it they'd like it, but the poll results so far suggest the opposite is true. The proportion of those who oppose it in ESO rises when they have had experience of it elsewhere.

I think a part of that is because it is the 1st option in favor of the system. If it was reversed with the 2nd in favor option the numbers would change. Typically people only skim read and choose quickly when taking polls.

Artjuh90 wrote: »

this poll is biased because there are 2 options making their comments look like they dont matter

The data should not be interpreted that way. I just wanted to see how justifications varied based on past gaming experience.

Everyone's opinion should be valued equally in this thread.

Sharee wrote: »

I must say i see the logic behind ZOS decision. Keep PvP in PvP zones, leave the rest for PvE'rs. That way there will be no confusion about whether another player can or can not attack you at any given time.

Adding another set of rules like "this is a PvE area and you are safe, UNLESS you do this and this" would most likely cause confusion with the casual players (who often get confused about much simpler matters). The potential damage outweighs the potential gains, in my opinion.

Any other mmo offers that aswell, u can mark urself for pvp typing /pvp (so u are able to be attacked) and u can turn it off at the same time...

Srsly any other mmo has this. Because leaving pvp in the pvp zones grants us awesome 400 ms latency... cyrodil is not working for anyone who doesnt want tp push one single button in a big zerg.

If you are disappointed that the PvP segment of the justice system is not coming please read and post in the below thread:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/241386/pvp-justice-system-canceled#latest