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Justice System PvP - Please explain exactly WHY you are for / against this content!
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anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I am in favor of Justice System PvP and I have never played a game with Justice System PvP content in the pastanitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »The only concerns i've had toward anything with the justice system, come from two experiences with it as it stands now. Doing a quest in stonefalls, battling Nords while drunk, accidentally killed a chicken, incurred a bounty. While trying to complete another quest (forget which zone), I had to kill a whole lot of soldiers on while trying to gain entry into a castle. Another player was also killing said soldiers, so I threw a heal their way, only to get a bounty, as the player was not doing the same quest, just randomly killing npc's, or trying to.
Last thing I want to to be ganked by a bounty hunter due to incidents as stated above.
If you haven't opted-in for justice-system-pvp, you won't. Simple as that.
But even then... you got those bounties by accident. What do you do ? either wait (disconnect) or pay it the a guard or a fence. If another player kills you and takes the bounty, what difference is it to you ? The only difference is that you stand a chance against a player and none against a guard.
The difference is, I was questing. Not actively trying to participate in anything criminal. Thought it was quite obvious.
I got that. But you still had to pay your bounty, didn't you ?
Yes, absolutely. The only thing that bothered me about the system as it is. Such is life, the bounties were not large.
Then, what does it matter if you pay it to a guard, to a fence or to a player ?0 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I am in favor of Justice System PvP and I have never played a game with Justice System PvP content in the pastIt was flawed from the start.
You'd have people hiding/camping the outlaws refuge sites, meaning most people with bounties would just log off. Especially people who accidentally take one thing or accidentally touch a locked door.
When the intelligent solution to a situation is, "don't play the game," it's counter-productive to the positive experience you're trying to build. Most people don't want to be punished in their hobbies or leisure. There are already "hobbies" specially designed for that if that's your thing.
Moreover, the type of enforcement used would either reduce blatant crime, or make people more effective criminals. So it's work on an update that would be used very little relative to the rest of the game. Basically about as useless to the player's overall experience as the reworked Coldharbour tutorial.
Which is why I suggested that criminals could be attacked by enforcers only if they are caught in the act (and not based on bounty level).
I disagree when you say it's useless : it would give an extra level of depth to the entire game world and give everyone new reasons to go back to older zones long forgotten.0 -
MisterBigglesworth✭✭✭✭✭
✭I am in favor of Justice System PvP and I have never played a game with Justice System PvP content in the pastFirst ZOS needs to prove they can effectively:- Implement a toggleable PvP flag that makes you kill-on-sight by anyone
- Implement a separate toggleable PvP flag that locks you into 1-on-1 combat, makes you immune heals/buffs from allies and immune to attacks from anyone other than the person you're dueling
- Make it so the 2nd flag cannot overwrite the 1st flag!
- Make it so these flags have no effect on whether or not you can attack or take damage from NPCs (i.e. the safezone buff)
Edited by MisterBigglesworth on January 13, 2016 10:32PMReally we do it without like, the musical instruments. This is the only musical: the mouth. And hopefully the brain attached to the mouth. Right? The brain, more important than the mouth, is the brain. The brain is much more important.2 -
phairdon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »The only concerns i've had toward anything with the justice system, come from two experiences with it as it stands now. Doing a quest in stonefalls, battling Nords while drunk, accidentally killed a chicken, incurred a bounty. While trying to complete another quest (forget which zone), I had to kill a whole lot of soldiers on while trying to gain entry into a castle. Another player was also killing said soldiers, so I threw a heal their way, only to get a bounty, as the player was not doing the same quest, just randomly killing npc's, or trying to.
Last thing I want to to be ganked by a bounty hunter due to incidents as stated above.
If you haven't opted-in for justice-system-pvp, you won't. Simple as that.
But even then... you got those bounties by accident. What do you do ? either wait (disconnect) or pay it the a guard or a fence. If another player kills you and takes the bounty, what difference is it to you ? The only difference is that you stand a chance against a player and none against a guard.
The difference is, I was questing. Not actively trying to participate in anything criminal. Thought it was quite obvious.
I got that. But you still had to pay your bounty, didn't you ?
Yes, absolutely. The only thing that bothered me about the system as it is. Such is life, the bounties were not large.
Then, what does it matter if you pay it to a guard, to a fence or to a player ?
To a guard is one thing. The idea of being chased down & more than likely being killed by another player, due to unintentional bounty gained while questing, would become very tiresome/annoying. Of course, an opt out system would fix this.Edited by phairdon on January 13, 2016 10:15PMYour immersion is breaking my entitlement. Buff Sorc's. Darkshroud the cremator Death by furRubeus BlackFluffy knight BladesThe Fat PantherPsijic Fungal SausageFlesheater the VileCaspian Rafferty FernsbyArchfiend Warlock PiersThe Black BishopEvil Wizard Lizard (EU)Neberra Vestige Fajeon (EU)Salanis Deathstick (EU)Blood Mage Alchemist (EU)0 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I am in favor of Justice System PvP and I have never played a game with Justice System PvP content in the pastanitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »Bring it into Cyrodiil first! Players can check the bounty board on other players in their campaign that have bounties on their head. If they kill them, they collect.
Sorry Alucardo but that's nonsensical. There are 2 places in Tamriel where justice system doesn't apply : Cyrodiil and Coldharbour.
In Cyrodiil, because it's a war zone. Law/Justice don't apply in war zones (that's even imho the basic definition of war... )
In Coldharbour because it's not on Nirn, and the daedra certainly don't care about Nirn laws and their reinforcement.
As convenient as it could appear technically to have the PvP part of justice system be implemented in Cyrodiil, it makes no sense story-wise.
Hmm... I don't know, I think this Alucardo guy might be on to something. Cyrodiil is already a PVP zone so if someone wracks up a bounty they shouldn't be shocked when other players target them for termination. It really might not be a bad way to implement PVP into the justice system by keeping that aspect of it to only the world PVP zone. Not a bad way to compromise, imo.
As a side note: there actually does a fairly robust and complex set of rules for how war can be conducted in the real world called The Geneva Conventions as well as most countries having their own Laws of Armed Conflict (LOAC) detailing what is considered an allowable target, which weapons are acceptable vs inhumane, how POWs are to be treated, etc. This is actually how people can be put on trial for War Crimes. I don't really see having the justice system being implemented into Cyrodiil PVP would be such a far fetched idea.
There would be a lot to say about the "laws of war" such as the Geneva Convention, but this is not the place for it.
Let's just figure out : you're in Cyrodiil, fighting huge castles with huge siege weapons and all, and all of a sudden people of your own faction will throw themselves at you because you've stolen an apple ...??? Or because you've killed an NPC at the other end of the world ? That makes little sense... but even if we forget sense. You have these huge battles and all of a sudden you will stop whatever you were doing with your group and go kill one of your teammates because he/she has a bounty ? Now that's likely to cause a lot of drama in guilds, I suppose... IMHO, Cyrodiil is about faction conflict, it's not the place to fight people of your own faction.0 -
DorianDragonRaze✭✭✭✭I am against Justice System PvP and I have never played a game with Justice System PvP content in the pastanitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »What I believe to be Lefty's suggestion (and everyone's suggestion on this thread) is that the opt-out system would be a checkbox in the settings. If you opt-out, absolutely nothing changes for you, it stays as it is, regardless of your actions and the level of your bounties : you cannot be attacked by players, only by guards.
Only thing that could possibly change is that you could see players fighting around you, but it would not impact you whatsoever.
Wrong. There are many times in game people would be impacted seeing players fighting around. Unless phased out, such things breaks immersion into alliance quests.
Imagine one of the very first scenes in Helgen (Skyrim) right before the dragon shown up. Now add 10 players jumping and fighting around...Edited by DorianDragonRaze on January 13, 2016 10:18PMI used to be an adventurer like you, then I got the ESO on my hard drive...1 -
Jusey1✭✭✭✭✭I would be fine with a PvP Justice system myself since I rarely get caught. ESO is still an Elder Scrolls and like all Elder Scrolls games, sneaking/stealing is flat-out easy when against NPCs. (And the only reason I'll steal is for easy ignots to use).
My only problem is that the sneak eye is a bit laggy at times and doesn't update itself fast enough.1 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I am in favor of Justice System PvP and I have never played a game with Justice System PvP content in the pastDorianDragonRaze wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »What I believe to be Lefty's suggestion (and everyone's suggestion on this thread) is that the opt-out system would be a checkbox in the settings. If you opt-out, absolutely nothing changes for you, it stays as it is, regardless of your actions and the level of your bounties : you cannot be attacked by players, only by guards.
Only thing that could possibly change is that you could see players fighting around you, but it would not impact you whatsoever.
Wrong. There are many times in game people would be impacted seeing players fighting around. Unless phased out, such things breaks immersion into alliance quests.
Imagine one of the very first scenes in Helgen (Skyrim) right before the dragon shown up. Now add 10 players jumping and fighting around...
This is why ESO is ESO and not Skyrim, why there is no scene comparable to Helgen (except maybe the final main quest battle, but this one's instanced) : there is no such thing as "immersion" (comparable to Skyrim) in an MMO, simply because there are other players around doing their stuff. JS PvP would not change that. What difference does it make for you if other players are fighting NPCs or each other ?1 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I am against Justice System PvP and I have played at least one game with Justice System PvP content in the pastanitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »NateAssassin wrote: »Because I want people killing me when afk waiting for a bounty to drop, or when I am trying to make a few gold to repair my armors, and want to get tbagged by every 500 cp player who claims that they rekt me xDDDDDD
What part of "You would be able to opt-out..." is it that makes it so hard to understand ?
Usually for me it's the part where there is no clarification whether any opt-out is going to be total, irrespective of bounty level, or only limited so long as you don't kill NPCs and get a high bounty (in which case there's an enforced choice between having PvP penalties imposed for PvE crimes in PvE areas or being excluded from some of the PvE content).
What I believe to be Lefty's suggestion (and everyone's suggestion on this thread) is that the opt-out system would be a checkbox in the settings. If you opt-out, absolutely nothing changes for you, it stays as it is, regardless of your actions and the level of your bounties : you cannot be attacked by players, only by guards.
Only thing that could possibly change is that you could see players fighting around you, but it would not impact you whatsoever.
It's certainly not everyone's approach on this thread, I was specifically told in relation to one poster's suggestion " If you wanna do certain things, then live with the consequences. It's as simple as that". I think his suggestion involved PvEers being allowed to attack NPCs but not kill them without incurring PvP penalties.
I'm sure you'll agree that there have been so many threads on this topic before and after the announcement that it's difficult to recall who exactly said what and when. It has been the argument throughout the debate over the Justice System, however, that those who didn't want to suffer the PvP penalties didn't need to commit the PvE crimes, and that the bounty level would be set high as the threshold below which PvP couldn't happen. I think it's only since the announcement was made, and not by all contributors to this or the other threads, that the idea has been mooted of a total opt-out irrespective of bounty level. Even then, when I raised that particular point I was told
Even with that, however, I'm not a fan of mixing PvE and PvP content together and I'm wholly opposed to open world PvP. I don't want the performance and behavioral problems that come with PvP affecting PvE areas. I have absolutely no problem with any form of PvP content being added to the PvP areas, but I don't want any form of open world PvP even if it is masquerading as a Justice System, even more so if it comes with the need for PvEers to be excluded from some of the PvE content unless they agree to PvP.1 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I am in favor of Justice System PvP and I have never played a game with Justice System PvP content in the pastMisterBigglesworth wrote: »First ZOS needs to prove they can effectively:- Implement a toggleable PvP flag that makes you kill-on-sight by any member of an enemy faction
Enemy faction ? There are no enemy factions in PvE zones, they're all faction-instanced... imho JS PvP is about fighting people of your own faction...
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Acrolas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »give everyone new reasons to go back to older zones long forgotten.
I already go back to old zones to visit the sketchier side of the game. You know... guild kiosks...signing off0 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I am in favor of Justice System PvP and I have never played a game with Justice System PvP content in the pastanitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »NateAssassin wrote: »Because I want people killing me when afk waiting for a bounty to drop, or when I am trying to make a few gold to repair my armors, and want to get tbagged by every 500 cp player who claims that they rekt me xDDDDDD
What part of "You would be able to opt-out..." is it that makes it so hard to understand ?
Usually for me it's the part where there is no clarification whether any opt-out is going to be total, irrespective of bounty level, or only limited so long as you don't kill NPCs and get a high bounty (in which case there's an enforced choice between having PvP penalties imposed for PvE crimes in PvE areas or being excluded from some of the PvE content).
What I believe to be Lefty's suggestion (and everyone's suggestion on this thread) is that the opt-out system would be a checkbox in the settings. If you opt-out, absolutely nothing changes for you, it stays as it is, regardless of your actions and the level of your bounties : you cannot be attacked by players, only by guards.
Only thing that could possibly change is that you could see players fighting around you, but it would not impact you whatsoever.
It's certainly not everyone's approach on this thread, I was specifically told in relation to one poster's suggestion " If you wanna do certain things, then live with the consequences. It's as simple as that". I think his suggestion involved PvEers being allowed to attack NPCs but not kill them without incurring PvP penalties.
I'm sure you'll agree that there have been so many threads on this topic before and after the announcement that it's difficult to recall who exactly said what and when. It has been the argument throughout the debate over the Justice System, however, that those who didn't want to suffer the PvP penalties didn't need to commit the PvE crimes, and that the bounty level would be set high as the threshold below which PvP couldn't happen. I think it's only since the announcement was made, and not by all contributors to this or the other threads, that the idea has been mooted of a total opt-out irrespective of bounty level. Even then, when I raised that particular point I was told
Even with that, however, I'm not a fan of mixing PvE and PvP content together and I'm wholly opposed to open world PvP. I don't want the performance and behavioral problems that come with PvP affecting PvE areas. I have absolutely no problem with any form of PvP content being added to the PvP areas, but I don't want any form of open world PvP even if it is masquerading as a Justice System, even more so if it comes with the need for PvEers to be excluded from some of the PvE content unless they agree to PvP.
Yes, there's input from many different people and suggestions vary in their details.
From your last paragraph, I understand that you like PvE and PvP being strictly separated, I like the mix of the two more than anything else. That's where we disagree, but what can I say ? Preference is preference, yours is just as valid as mine...
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MisterBigglesworth✭✭✭✭✭
✭I am in favor of Justice System PvP and I have never played a game with Justice System PvP content in the pastanitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »MisterBigglesworth wrote: »First ZOS needs to prove they can effectively:- Implement a toggleable PvP flag that makes you kill-on-sight by any member of an enemy faction
Enemy faction ? There are no enemy factions in PvE zones, they're all faction-instanced... imho JS PvP is about fighting people of your own faction...
Yeah sorry, forgot to edit that out. I was going to go into detail about a possible cross faction PVE zone (to go along with the already announced plans for cross-faction grouping) but that would've broadened the scope of this discussion too much I think so I decided to scrap it.
I've corrected it to say "kill-on-sight by anyone" (meaning, anyone in your faction, as opposed to just the person you're dueling)Really we do it without like, the musical instruments. This is the only musical: the mouth. And hopefully the brain attached to the mouth. Right? The brain, more important than the mouth, is the brain. The brain is much more important.0 -
Sord✭✭✭I am in favor of Justice System PvP and I have never played a game with Justice System PvP content in the past@Lefty_Lucy I agree with you 100% no one knows exactly what it will be like. I also don't understand why a flagging system can't be implemented so people can either opt in or out of the pvp portion of the justice system or simply have specific towns (one in each zone) that are designated for pvp the rest of the zone isn't? There are so many possibilities for this and personally am not happy about it. So many disappointments in the PVP side of this game, as the way they sold this game was via the PVP "Epic battles for Cyrodiil and become Emporer." Then "The Justice system will have PVP as you can be a cop or the robber" and they been hyping that, only to drop the ball. UGH!!!
And of note so far on the poll 49 (25%) don't want the pvp vs 150 (75%) people want the pvp. That is three quarters of the people reading this which is a good polling for the general population that people want MORE PVP!!! How is this good for business? It just doesn't make sense. Let a group of us help you out Zenimax make this a reality and make it good.Edited by Sord on January 13, 2016 10:44PMwww.fateslegacy.com Share your build or find a build here at Fate's Legacy!
-This is your life and its ending one moment at a time-0 -
phairdon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
[/quote]So many disappointments in the PVP side of this game, as the way they sold this game was via the PVP "Epic battles for Cyrodiil and become Emporer."
What's changed? Cyrodiil has not gone away. Yet some pvp'ers do not want epic battles in Cyrodiil, only small scale, due to lag or other reasons.
The 2nd part of the justice system, im guessing, would encompass all pve zones as well as Cyrodiil.
Edited by phairdon on January 13, 2016 10:44PMYour immersion is breaking my entitlement. Buff Sorc's. Darkshroud the cremator Death by furRubeus BlackFluffy knight BladesThe Fat PantherPsijic Fungal SausageFlesheater the VileCaspian Rafferty FernsbyArchfiend Warlock PiersThe Black BishopEvil Wizard Lizard (EU)Neberra Vestige Fajeon (EU)Salanis Deathstick (EU)Blood Mage Alchemist (EU)0 -
Sord✭✭✭I am in favor of Justice System PvP and I have never played a game with Justice System PvP content in the past
What's changed? Cyrodiil has not gone away. Yet some pvp'ers do not want epic battles in Cyrodiil, only small scale, due to lag or other reasons.
The 2nd part of the justice system, im guessing, would encompass all pve zones as well as Cyrodiil.
[/quote]
@phairdon The epic fights are not so epic because of the lag issues, get a group of 40 people come near you and your ping rating shoots threw the roof. Epic fights gone.
Now they drop the pvp for the justice system which was a big catch and something to look forward to gone.
Arenas are so far out because they only recently said "ok we'll think about it but probably won't happen any time soon" There is no small scale, no large scale. The PvP for this game is tanking hard and loosing a lot of ground and players because of it. Lots of other potential games are releasing this year that offer similar or better PvP options. I am for one am looking at Crowfall because the people making it also made Shadowbane one of the first truly pvp games. People want PvP and ESO isn't delivering. Sad but true. I love this game and it is amazing with so much potential it is crazy, but it isn't being utilized to it full potential.www.fateslegacy.com Share your build or find a build here at Fate's Legacy!
-This is your life and its ending one moment at a time-0 -
phairdon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Sord
Understood in regard to Cyrodiil. Reading the multiple discussions explains most of the issues.
Also think arena's for small scale pvp should be introduced and I'm not a pvp'er, as such.
The disappointment over the justice system, can comprehend this too. New fresh content is always welcome, for both parts of the game.Your immersion is breaking my entitlement. Buff Sorc's. Darkshroud the cremator Death by furRubeus BlackFluffy knight BladesThe Fat PantherPsijic Fungal SausageFlesheater the VileCaspian Rafferty FernsbyArchfiend Warlock PiersThe Black BishopEvil Wizard Lizard (EU)Neberra Vestige Fajeon (EU)Salanis Deathstick (EU)Blood Mage Alchemist (EU)1 -
Arvendir✭✭✭I am in favor of Justice System PvP and I have played at least one game with Justice System PvP content in the pastZos does not want because this forum is full of posts asking things like : "please give the option to be impossible to be attacked while questing in Cyrodiil / please make an istanced PvE version of the Imperial City"
Arvendir, Closed Beta Tester
Guild: Ordine di Shor(Gilda Italiana PC)
Craglorn's HMs | vHoF Tri | vMoL HM | vAS+2 Tri | vCR+3 Tri | vRG HM | vSS Tri | vKA Tri | vLC HM | vDSR HM |Dragonknight Stamina
Dragonknight Tank
Dragonknight Magicka
Templar Stamina
Templar Healer
Templar Magicka
Sorcerer Stamina
Sorcerer Magicka
Necromancer Stamina
Necromancer Magicka
Necromancer Tank
Necromancer Healer
Warden Tank
Warden Healer1 -
phairdon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Zos does not want because this forum is full of posts asking things like : "please give the option to be impossible to be attacked while questing in Cyrodiil / please make an istanced PvE version of the Imperial City"
Asking is one thing. Most of know requests like mentioned, are not going to happen.Your immersion is breaking my entitlement. Buff Sorc's. Darkshroud the cremator Death by furRubeus BlackFluffy knight BladesThe Fat PantherPsijic Fungal SausageFlesheater the VileCaspian Rafferty FernsbyArchfiend Warlock PiersThe Black BishopEvil Wizard Lizard (EU)Neberra Vestige Fajeon (EU)Salanis Deathstick (EU)Blood Mage Alchemist (EU)0 -
Rex-Umbra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I am in favor of Justice System PvP and I have played at least one game with Justice System PvP content in the pastDarkfall online and Age of Conan kinda had a system but they were just regarding killing non red players still i want more pvp options.Xbox GT: Rex Umbrah
GM of IMPERIUM since 2015.0 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I am in favor of Justice System PvP and I have never played a game with Justice System PvP content in the pastZos does not want because this forum is full of posts asking things like : "please give the option to be impossible to be attacked while questing in Cyrodiil / please make an istanced PvE version of the Imperial City"
Asking is one thing. Most of know requests like mentioned, are not going to happen.
I'm afraid @Arvendir is right : this decision also comes from all the whining about PvP and PvE being mixed, and in the end very few people were actually happy about it, on both sides. I enjoy the mix but I'm quite a minority I'm afraid. I think ZOS is giving up on that altogether and will produce strictly separate content from now on.
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Elloa✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I can not Vote for this, because it really depend of how this Justice System PVP is implemented in the game.
As I explain in this video below, for me it's absolutely necessary than the NON-PVP players can enjoy the Justice system without being forced to PVP. But as @Lefty_Lucy said, it can be implemented in a way to ensure that point. So why not?
However, I actually find the points made by @Joy_Division (first page) very interesting. Not sure that Zenimax should prioritise that aspect of the game over some others that could be more stable and easier to devellop.
Here @Lefty_Lucy my answer to your video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMppYOZSGCA&feature=youtu.be 6 -
I am in favor of Justice System PvP and I have never played a game with Justice System PvP content in the pastBad(thief/assassin), Neutral, Good(Guard/Law)
Neutral=Normal game play. Npc and Player Attack/Heal toggled off, Loot owned containers toggled off.
If YOU want too..
Choose a side and engage in the activitys.
Would be cool to see and wach as neutral, and very fun on pvp end.
-Points system/weekly objectives.
-One day a week Thief den is unlocked for outlaw raid.
-Another day secret passage to a vault is open to raid/guard.
Ppl boohoo about class balance/fairness or want to swich sides they can pay fee to renounce their side to Neutral.(Weekly Cooldown to swich)
*Edit* Realized I forgot about PVE only Justice....I guess it comes down to the toggle. Same as above but weekly lock on PVP/PVE toggle.
Edited by jpatek0501ub17_ESO on January 14, 2016 12:52AM0 -
Lefty_Lucy✭✭✭✭I am in favor of Justice System PvP and I have played at least one game with Justice System PvP content in the pastThank you all for your responses! I have enjoyed reading all of them, including those which deviate from my own opinions. I look forward to reading upcoming comments as well.
I'll try to respond to as many comments as I can.
@Huggalump - There is though. The reason is you want to allow other players to attack you, because you enjoy PvP. There doesn't have to be another reason.I don't think a flag system would work. As a thief, there's no reason to flag yourself for pvp if you're trying to steal stuff.
@Iluvrien - In no way did I say that your views will be discarded if you have never experienced Justice System PvP. Including this in the options was an experiment. I wanted to see people's justifications because I wanted to see how your justification varied based off of your past gaming experience. This is because I believe most people who have experienced content like this would not be opposed to it, because they would know it does not have to take anything away from their experience.Including this in the voting options is an appeal to authority: "You only get your views on the subject taken seriously if you have done it in the past and haven't liked it". No. Just no.
@Iluvrien - "Come on dude" was not my response to the statement of "I don't want to see PvP while I am questing", that was my reaction to his statement. My response was "You don't have to participate" (if implemented properly, of course).Your response to the person who didn't want to see PvP going on was also lacking. "Come on dude" isn't a reasoned response. It isn't playing devil's advocate. It is dismissing the concern of another player based on your own bias.
Why would you not want to SEE PvP? How does this diminish your experience on an MMO? You don't have to engage in PvP. So what if it's happening over there while you're collecting berries? Because it's a distraction?
I don't understand the distraction argument. What is so pressing about your open world PvE? Aren't you playing ESO on your free time? I legitimately do not understand this mindset, but that does not mean I do not respect it.
@Tandor - Part of what I mean when I say that this system should be "implemented properly" is that it should not affect the PvE portion of the Justice System. You are assuming that you can't steal from a bank's lockbox without being flagged for PvP. It doesn't have to work like this.Lefty_Lucy wrote: »
It is also my opinion that no one would be forced to PvP if this system was implemented!
They would if they wanted to participate fully in the PvE elements of the Justice System in the PvE part of the world.
@Elebeth - This is why I created the poll options the way I did. I think some people just don't understand, and I think that may be because they have never experienced this type of system. If I missed out on Justice System PvP because people complained about it without even having a frame of reference, I am going to be even more disappointed.@Lefty_Lucy As you have stated, too many people are presuming that you will have to PvP if you want to participate in the justice system.
@NewBlacksmurf Haha. I made this suggestion 2 years ago in open beta. They didn't go for it.NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Here is my observation.
The game has these mega servers but what seems to make more sense are
-PvP server
-PvE server
@clupeiub17_ESO - Previous games with Justice System PvP elements. I have played many of them. Zergs are never a problem. Remember the key word - "implementation".clupeiub17_ESO wrote: »What makes you think that bringing the justice system would not bring zerg gangs and lag that is in cyrodiil into other traditionally pve zones throughout tamriel?
I just like this comment.Imperius_Skepta wrote: »Why do us PVEers and PVPers have to be against each other? Why can't we work together so we can both be happy?
@Contraptions - In my video, I mentioned that I would not support a poor implementation of the Justice System's PvP content. However, I would like to see ZOS try, and I would like to help them figure out the best implementation.Contraptions wrote: »OP says that people who opposed the idea did so without knowing all the details. Even if that's true, OP also supported this idea without knowing all the details.
@Contraptions - The point of this post was to open discussion about why you want or do not want the Justice System PvP content. That being said, you had a lot of questions that I believe have simple answers. Most of these come from Age of Wushu's systems. This assumes a system where you volunteer (opt-in) to participate in PvP.Contraptions wrote: »If OP wants people to support his idea, he needs to start providing more details himself. Not just, "I saw this work well before so it must work here as well." Kudos on being mature about it though.
Stealth could be combated with a skill or consumable item that is specifically designed to detect criminals. Only law enforcers could use it. Other players' heals would never affect criminals - you break the law, you fight for yourself - even if you have a criminal buddy with you. No wayshrining while in combat. Zergs just simply wouldn't be a problem if this was implemented properly (based on experience in many games with this system). NPC guard invincibility is irrelevant. Level differences would not be addressed - Unflag from PvP if you don't like dying to a V16 if you're level 10. Justice PvP would have no place in Cyrodiil, Dungeons, or Trials - just the open world.
@nimander99 - I may not enjoy participating in PvP in ESO anymore, but I do enjoy creating my Top 5 PvP Battle videos. I have a lot of fun with those videos, plus I love what it does for the community. My commentary will continue even when I stop playing ESO. Also, I'll be back, one day. Hopefully I will want to stay when I return.nimander99 wrote: »I can tell you are pretty bummed about this and I feel your pain, hope this isn't the straw that broke the camels back for you. I've always appreciated your commentary.
@Joy_Division - I didn't quote your whole post because my post right now is becoming very long. However, I want to thank you for what you said (Post #156, page 6). Very well said. I see your point of view and I respect it like crazy. You have excellent points. In the end, our votes will differ, but I think we see each other's perspectives pretty clearly. Thanks again.Joy_Division wrote: »I understand my priorities are different, but that is why I voted as I did.
Competetive small scale PvP'er.
GM of Afterburner - DC small scale PvP guild
YouTube: youtube.com/leftylucy_pvp
Livestream: twitch.tv/leftylucy_pvp2 -
Darkonflare15✭✭✭✭✭I can not Vote for this, because it really depend of how this Justice System PVP is implemented in the game.
As I explain in this video below, for me it's absolutely necessary than the NON-PVP players can enjoy the Justice system without being forced to PVP. But as @Lefty_Lucy said, it can be implemented in a way to ensure that point. So why not?
However, I actually find the points made by @Joy_Division (first page) very interesting. Not sure that Zenimax should prioritise that aspect of the game over some others that could be more stable and easier to devellop.
Here @Lefty_Lucy my answer to your videohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMppYOZSGCA&feature=youtu.be
I agree. It is best for ZOS to finish the big changes they are trying to do with getting rid of the vet system and implement more stable content instead of something that can cause more problems down the line. They need to add more stuff do in Cyrodil for pvp and fix the lag problems. Nothing against pvp in a pve area but I am against them adding something in the game that can be abused and exploited. They just need to focus on fixing the lag and adding more combat fixes while introducing more elements to the already established pvp areas.2 -
Lefty_Lucy✭✭✭✭I am in favor of Justice System PvP and I have played at least one game with Justice System PvP content in the pastI can not Vote for this, because it really depend of how this Justice System PVP is implemented in the game.
As I explain in this video below, for me it's absolutely necessary than the NON-PVP players can enjoy the Justice system without being forced to PVP. But as @Lefty_Lucy said, it can be implemented in a way to ensure that point. So why not?
However, I actually find the points made by @Joy_Division (first page) very interesting. Not sure that Zenimax should prioritise that aspect of the game over some others that could be more stable and easier to devellop.
Here @Lefty_Lucy my answer to your videohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMppYOZSGCA&feature=youtu.be
This is exactly my point. Thank you @Elloa Competetive small scale PvP'er.
GM of Afterburner - DC small scale PvP guild
YouTube: youtube.com/leftylucy_pvp
Livestream: twitch.tv/leftylucy_pvp2 -
I am in favor of Justice System PvP and I have played at least one game with Justice System PvP content in the pastI think if they added some kind of bounty system like SWG had where if you commit a crime you get a bounty where a player can pick the quest up at a bounty mission board, and only go after that specific player. Not just a free for all in all the pve zones. Maybe make them like dailies where you can only do so many in a day, It could be part of the Dark brotherhood.I,Gogog, the Bloodthroat. Hail Gzoroth!1 -
Molag_Crow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I am in favor of Justice System PvP and I have never played a game with Justice System PvP content in the pastI wouldn't mind it.--ϟ-- Crows_Descend - Templar - Ebonheart Pact [PS4]&[PC] [EU] --ϟ--
YoutTube ESO Playlist
The greatest prison that people live in, is the fear of what other people think. - David Icke
Be your true, authentic self.0 -
TheBonesXXX✭✭✭✭✭
✭I am in favor of Justice System PvP and I have played at least one game with Justice System PvP content in the pastI can not Vote for this, because it really depend of how this Justice System PVP is implemented in the game.
As I explain in this video below, for me it's absolutely necessary than the NON-PVP players can enjoy the Justice system without being forced to PVP. But as @Lefty_Lucy said, it can be implemented in a way to ensure that point. So why not?
However, I actually find the points made by @Joy_Division (first page) very interesting. Not sure that Zenimax should prioritise that aspect of the game over some others that could be more stable and easier to devellop.
Here @Lefty_Lucy my answer to your videohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMppYOZSGCA&feature=youtu.be
The only reason I watched this is because your bloody gorgeous o.O2 -
Arvendir✭✭✭I am in favor of Justice System PvP and I have played at least one game with Justice System PvP content in the pastZos does not want because this forum is full of posts asking things like : "please give the option to be impossible to be attacked while questing in Cyrodiil / please make an istanced PvE version of the Imperial City"
Asking is one thing. Most of know requests like mentioned, are not going to happen.
of course, but those posts are like feedbacks for them, they see that there is a lot of whining even if the proposes are stupidArvendir, Closed Beta Tester
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