anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

There are more than enough threads and polls on the subject on this very forum to know that people for/against the current system are split about 50/50. So there's no point in saying that the other side is a minority, no matter which side.

But @Alphashado is very right : people aren't very much informed of what they're talking about and the possible consequences when they advocate for a global AH. Proof is, they mix up many arguments that have nothing to do with the trading system per se (like the UI issues, or the travelling times, which are currently worsened by the loading screen problem).

In fact, it is very simple : people who want a global AH want a "convenient feature". People who like the current system see it for what it is : a game within the game. Or better said, a part of the game, and a damn good one at that.

Wanting the current trading system removed for an AH equals, more or less, to saying "remove PvP from Cyrodiil, I don't want to waste time fighting other players for doing my PvE there".

I don't think it's that people want "a convenient feature" so much as they want a trading system that is open to all. The present system is substantially restricted in respect of both buyers and sellers. The fact that it's also particularly inconvenient to buyers simply makes it inconvenient to those who are able to access it but is irrelevant to those who cannot.

You lost me at War Craft lmao!!!

The only thing I'd like is for items purchased from Guild Stores to appear instantly for you. It seems odd that you stand right in front of and talk to the guild trader who is selling that item, but then you must leave the zone to obtain it once purchased.

It is just my opinion but I much prefer an AH system where I only have to make one stop and search for what I’m after. I can’t stand spending hours running around looking for one thing when I could be doing PVP or doing a dungeon crawl. I don’t think the current system helps guilds either. Most guilds that have traders are antisocial lotteries. I totally agree that this game lacks community and I think the guild trader system is part of the problem.

Tandor wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

I don't think it's that people want "a convenient feature" so much as they want a trading system that is open to all.

The current system is open to all. People who believe that it is restricted either do not know how the system works, or do not want to join a guild, in which case they can only blame themselves because there's no downside to joining one.

Simply untrue. At any one time only a small percentage of players are able to sell through traders, and only high level players can buy from all the traders many of which are located in areas that lower level players are unable to access due to level and/or alliance. The system is far from being open to all.

Hi. I'm in one guild and that guild seldom ever own a trader. Yet I still make profit and participate in the economic system. Care to take a guess at how?
Hint: I don't even use my guild resources (I.e guild chat, guild store, etc.)

Tandor wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

I don't think it's that people want "a convenient feature" so much as they want a trading system that is open to all.

The current system is open to all. People who believe that it is restricted either do not know how the system works, or do not want to join a guild, in which case they can only blame themselves because there's no downside to joining one.

Simply untrue. At any one time only a small percentage of players are able to sell through traders, and only high level players can buy from all the traders many of which are located in areas that lower level players are unable to access due to level and/or alliance. The system is far from being open to all.

You're wrong. All players can join a trading guild and obviously any guild that wants to get a trader can get one (every week there are traders that nobody has bid on).
It doesn't matter to not be able to visit ALL the traders in the game because in overall, each zone will offer the same stuff. There is not one single item that you can get in Craglorn and not in Wayrest/Grahtwood/Mournhold.
I will not discuss this forever because it's been done and redone already in so many threads, but the idea that the trading system serves only a select few is just plain wrong and misleading. Anyone who wants to play the trading game can join easy and quick.
Complaints come from people who don't want to play, they just want to buy/sell stuff without giving it any time or thought. Fair enough, to each his own, but pretending that the current system is closed or restricted is a lie.
The only players that the system will NOT serve are the ones who refuse to give it some time, thought and effort.

I agree it's all been discussed many times before, so we've covered how many traders there are, how many guilds that supports and how many members each guild can have as well as the mass duplication of membership through being in several guilds. The resulting number of players able to sell each week is a very small proportion of the total playerbase. The fact that some traders attract no bids simply reflects the fact that they're not in viable locations. Addons help make the system more manageable for those PC players who use them but aren't available to console players.

Your comment that "each zone will offer the same stuff" gives an entirely misleading impression that whatever item you want can be found in any and every zone. It simply isn't true, every discussion of this topic includes players complaining about having had to traipse all over the world looking for the stuff they want to buy. I've had to wander through all the zones I had access to at the time in order to find recipes for crafting writs, and failed more times than I succeeded.

It isn't a question of people not being prepared to join a guild in order to trade, rather it's a case of people believing that there should be a public trading system that is open to all and not locked behind barriers like level, alliance, and guild membership. The reason this topic has been aired so many times and will continue to be so is because it is manifestly defective and defended only by those high level players who are making fortunes from it.

QFT

Tandor wrote: »

I agree it's all been discussed many times before, so we've covered how many traders there are, how many guilds that supports and how many members each guild can have as well as the mass duplication of membership through being in several guilds. The resulting number of players able to sell each week is a very small proportion of the total playerbase. The fact that some traders attract no bids simply reflects the fact that they're not in viable locations. Addons help make the system more manageable for those PC players who use them but aren't available to console players.

Let's get add-ons, add-ons related and text chat on console issues out of the way : everyone (or almost) agrees that awesome guild store, master merchant features and text chat should be available in the base game on all platforms. These are interface and usability issues that are not directly part of the trader system itself.

Calculations made are based on many guessed and unknown figures. We don't know what the current playerbase is (and guesses could be very, very wrong), we don't know either how many players within this current playerbase are actually willing to trade - regardless of the trading system.
The following test is much more reliable : go to your faction's capital and type in zone chat : "LF serious trading guild with stable trader in RawlKh'a/Craglorn/capital hub" and wait until you get an invite. Shouldn't last more than 10 minutes including a couple of rinse/repeat if necessary. Never has taken more than 10 minutes for me. That means and proves that the system does not exclude anyone willing to trade.

Tandor wrote: »

Your comment that "each zone will offer the same stuff" gives an entirely misleading impression that whatever item you want can be found in any and every zone. It simply isn't true, every discussion of this topic includes players complaining about having had to traipse all over the world looking for the stuff they want to buy. I've had to wander through all the zones I had access to at the time in order to find recipes for crafting writs, and failed more times than I succeeded.

Some stuff is simply very rare, some recipes are very rare, they would be just as rare in a global AH (with more chances that someone will buy it from under your nose).

You say it yourself : if you travel through all the zones and still don't find it, it means it simply isn't there.
Admittedly, you would have preferred to know it straight away rather than spending time travelling, but that's convenience, not efficiency.
In the end it all comes down to preferences. But a global AH would take away the "trading game" from thousands and thousands of players who like to play it, it would remove a whole part of the game. I don't think that would be fair. It's like people who want to remove PvP from Cyrodiil because it makes PvEing there more difficult.
And I don't think either that a global AH would necessarily be "more efficient" - see all arguments about devaluing stuff, undercutting each other and ultimately crushing the economy down.

The current system keeps people like me in the game in between DLCs : we don't care much about very high level skills (already do 15K-20K DPS, don't really need more), we have over 501 CP, we have multiple alts, we don't care much about leaderboards, we don't want to PvP all night, we don't want to run dungeons that we know so well that we could walk through them blind, BUT we still enjoy farming, selling, finding good deals and playing that part of the game.

Please don't get me wrong : I understand why some, like you, would prefer a centralized place, and many of your arguments are very valid too (though usually interface-related). It's a matter of preference. But saying that the current system is elitist, inefficient and some sort of organized mafia aren't true.

Heindrich wrote: »

I am kinda sick of people with zero understanding of economics making stupid demands regarding the economic system. I repeat the same thing I said in the last "Gimme Global AH!" thread...

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Be careful what you wish for. You think guild traders are bad...

Right now wealth is not evenly distributed, but inequalities are relatively mild compared to other MMOs because traders like me cannot scale our massive wealth efficiently, so despite sitting on 100M+ gold, my income is pretty much the same as if I had 10M gold, because it is inefficient for me to try to corner a sector of the economy, so I don't bother.

If a global auction house is implemented thanks to all this QQ and the trade guild I worked so hard to build becomes obsolete, I will use the global auction house to really play the market because I can literally afford to buy up things server-wide and dictate prices at will. Of course rich traders know other rich traders... so I won't be working alone.

Did somebody say #kutacartel

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Agree completely. (I do not own a guild.)

We will have https://youtube.com/watch?v=JmzuRXLzqKk

To the people who say that only a handful of people can sell items, here's a handy forum flowchart!

1. Ask in zone if you can join any trading guild with a decently-located kiosk. Did it work? Are you in?
YES - go to STEP 4.
NO - go to STEP 2.

2. Type "/zone WTS [link item here] for [insert price here]; PST." Did someone whisper you about buying?
YES - go to STEP 4.
NO - go to STEP 3.

3. Did you answer "NO" for steps 1 and 2 simply because you just didn't want to do them?
YES - go to STEP 5.
NO - port to a different zone, and go back to STEP 1.

4. Congratulations! You can now sell something!

5. Screw you; no one cares. Go to STEP 1.

Heindrich wrote: »

I am kinda sick of people with zero understanding of economics making stupid demands regarding the economic system. I repeat the same thing I said in the last "Gimme Global AH!" thread...

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Be careful what you wish for. You think guild traders are bad...

Right now wealth is not evenly distributed, but inequalities are relatively mild compared to other MMOs because traders like me cannot scale our massive wealth efficiently, so despite sitting on 100M+ gold, my income is pretty much the same as if I had 10M gold, because it is inefficient for me to try to corner a sector of the economy, so I don't bother.

If a global auction house is implemented thanks to all this QQ and the trade guild I worked so hard to build becomes obsolete, I will use the global auction house to really play the market because I can literally afford to buy up things server-wide and dictate prices at will. Of course rich traders know other rich traders... so I won't be working alone.

Did somebody say #kutacartel

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Free markets use antritust laws to prevent the creation of the monopolies you're talking about.

Implementing a global auction house without these would be the most stupid thing ZOS could do. I'd rather them keep the guild traders than do something like this.

However, this is a video game. Implementing and enforcing antitrust laws with a global auction house would just require computer code and no player could bypass it (which is not the case in real life).

Sorry to say this, but your argument is invalid. The real reason that guild traders exist is because ZOS wants to force players to spend 30-45 minutes searching for specific items in guild stores. This insures that players play more, and therefore are more likely to purchase a subscription, future DLCs or crown store items.

Yes, guild traders exist as a mean for ZOS to get more money. That's just how it is. There will never be a global auction house.

Tandor wrote: »

But that's my point - unless you're a high level player you cannot travel through all the zones. I don't use the term "elitist", that's your word. What I say is that the trading system isn't open to all, and it should be.

I believe the zone locking will be removed together with the veteran ranks. At least I hope so. Otherwise the system IS open to all - but I've already stated why, so let's agree to disagree.

Tandor wrote: »

As for whether or not it's inefficient, you admit yourself that if you want to buy an item you have to travel to find it. It's inefficient on that ground alone, quite apart from the fact that it depends on the use of optional addons only available on certain servers to make other aspects even remotely efficient.

What you refuse to understand is that it is part of the GAME. Does anyone complain about mobs needing to be killed in order for players to progress from point A to point B, and call it "inefficient" ? Markets being split all over the game world is what makes the system challenging and fun. That you don't like it doesn't make it bad.

As to add-ons, it's UI related, not inherent to the system (already explained that too).

Tandor wrote: »

Again, "organised mafia" is your phrase, not mine. We do know, however, that there are guilds that work together in relation to the trading system.

And... ? So what ? Unless it's malicious (in which case please prove instead of insinuating), I don't see anything bad with it - it's like players coordinating their teams for a dungeon or a PvP campaign.

Tandor wrote: »

I stand by my comment that the present system is not open to all, and favours high level players, those able to use addons, and is only defended by those high level players who profit from it. I accept that not everyone who uses and defends the system profits substantially from it, but those keenest to defend it usually do, and even those GMs who spend countless hours running the system complain about it and want it improved. I don't particularly want an alternative system such as an auction house, I'm perfectly happy for the present system to be opened up so that it is available to all.

And I stand by my comment that you are someone who doesn't want to play the trading aspect of the game and that's the only reason for you to want it removed.

How would you like the current system to be "opened up" ? If by that you mean access to guild traders for everyone regardless of guild membership, and centralized search, that equals to an auction house.

I think guild traders are fine. As far as a central location to search the items you want, I just go to the bank refine my search for what I want and check each of the guilds I am a member of. I am a member of 2 top end very successful trading guilds. More than fair and east empire co. I also trialed several other guilds before determining these were the most successful for selling and also great for buying - at least for the items I sell. I then left the rest of the trading guilds and to leave space for pvp guilds. I always sell my items 10-20% below market price so that I rarely have items taking longer than 1 week to sell so they more items can be listed. I think I contributed a considerable amount to bringing down the price of repora and charcoal of remorse since I bought possibly 100's of these with thousands and telvsr stones to sell for gold. I sold a willpower arcane ring for 99k yesterday. No complaints here with how the system is set up. I guess running a trading guilds and securing a merchant and trying to make any profit from sales tax could be quite a mission though.

In light of all these posts and sugesstions I still wonder why WHY they have yet to add in the Trade channel to me THIS would be agod send for the game and best part the channel can be toggled off or not so what do you say ESO

TRADE CHANNEL??

petraeus1 wrote: »

I like the system for how social it is. Coming from GW2, where all player trading goes through the Black Lion Trading Post (yes, not even face to face trading), it is refreshing. I chat with people, I mail with people, I join trade guilds, run around town. Sure it's abusable and not entirely fair, but so was GW2's system, where high level, rich players speculated and invested and manipulated prices every patch and in between. GW2's system is more convenient perhaps, but I like this system better. Reminds me of old school Runescape. I rather get scammed and be able to scam back than let a machine that only smart people know how to manipulate guide trading for me. xD

I wish we had a rotten tomato button "rather scam people back" Gee cuzz i got screwed imma gonna screw another and another and another.

but at least you admitted that you give the reach around with your screw

gw2only1b14_ESO wrote: »

petraeus1 wrote: »

I like the system for how social it is. Coming from GW2, where all player trading goes through the Black Lion Trading Post (yes, not even face to face trading), it is refreshing. I chat with people, I mail with people, I join trade guilds, run around town. Sure it's abusable and not entirely fair, but so was GW2's system, where high level, rich players speculated and invested and manipulated prices every patch and in between. GW2's system is more convenient perhaps, but I like this system better. Reminds me of old school Runescape. I rather get scammed and be able to scam back than let a machine that only smart people know how to manipulate guide trading for me. xD

I wish we had a rotten tomato button "rather scam people back" Gee cuzz i got screwed imma gonna screw another and another and another.

but at least you admitted that you give the reach around with your screw

Lol the 'xD' at the end was intended to signal that I wasn't being serious, but I will edit it for your sake and because I don't like tomatoes. It was intended as a hyperbole to stress how I value player interaction in this system over automation. Edit: also I never admitted anything I spoke about the ability of scamming. SoonerLater