My BIGGEST issue in this game..... Guild Traders

Marcusito

You either have to spend more time farming gold for inflated prices or spend time shopping around for the best price for an item. The trading system should not be the centerpiece of an MMO. I've played WoW, GW2 and others where you have the economic manipulation ruin the economy. In ESO the Econ geeks have to play a meta game against each other. ESO has the best well thought economy of any game I've played. Granted it takes some time to get the feel for it and the search functions could be better for the guild stores like Awesome Guild store has. The loading screen proble made it a pain but I'm setup where I can find items in each store with ease and find cheaper prices by large margins in some stores. Right now on PC there is an economic war between traders for kiosks. The market decides in this game and it works. Needs some polish but doesn't need a global AH or search across stores.

Sausage

terrordactyl1971 wrote: »

Rather than a global auction house, how about an auction house for each zone? That would be a compromise somewhere between the two systems as you'd still get price variation across Tamriel.

People whined already, and thats why 5 GAH spot was added to Craglorn, its too much for them to go there and check every one of them, so no way they start to travel around every zone. People are just plain lazy, thats why Global Search what cost gold is the best solution.

Uberkull

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Sausage wrote: »

terrordactyl1971 wrote: »

Rather than a global auction house, how about an auction house for each zone? That would be a compromise somewhere between the two systems as you'd still get price variation across Tamriel.

People whined already, and thats why 5 GAH spot was added to Craglorn, its too much for them to go there and check every one of them, so no way they start to travel around every zone. People are just plain lazy, thats why Global Search what cost gold is the best solution.

What's the point of bidding on prime location guild traders If you add a global search across all guild traders? I'll just bid 1000g on a swamp guild trader and get the same traffic as a Mournhold trader if there is a global search.

Everyone in this thread is looking at this from a buyers perspective. Try being a GM of Trade Guilds and having to deal with the bidding process and the redicioulou amount of gold you have to spend to secure a trader in a prime location. Then forcing people to maximize sales, stressing about Inactives or low sales, forcing membership fees to sustain a gold reserve for next weeks bid. That is why the system is garbage.

KewaG

Alphashado wrote: »

Justice31st wrote: »

Don't forget the fact that some guild traders require a weekly fee they say is for their trader, but then they don't have one the following week or two and just pocket the money.

.... Or they got outbid. It's a blind bid system. You can only bid on one kiosk, and if another guild bids a higher amount, then you lose and don't get another shot til the following Monday.

Comments like this make me not even want to help run a trade guild anymore. You people have no idea how much work is involved, or how stressful it can be. And we do it for no other reason than to have fun and supply a good trader for 500 people. If we wanted to get rich, we would sell our items on someone else's store where we wouldn't have to use our own money just to afford the Kiosk.

BMW doesn't require a weekly fee, but I certainly understand why some guilds do it. If you guys hate the system, then fine. But please stop insulting those of us that are trying to make it work because it's all we have right now.

Agree with you on this. I appreciate everyone of my guild leaders for all the hard work they do for one simple reason, because they don't have to do it. Its the love of the game that matters and negative comments just make GM's not want to do it anymore. I'm not a member of your guild but if I were you wouldn't hear/read negativity from me. Keep it up @Alphashado!

Korah_Eaglecry

lordrichter wrote: »

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Hammy01 wrote: »

Lolll, just weighing in here to say... how in the world do you know that only the minority want an AH change to the game? Honestly unless ZOS adds in a quick survey for us to complete as we all log into the game... asking such things like - "Do you like the current Guild trader system or would rather it be changed to work more like a global AH?", "Do you like current Voice only chat system or would you rather we add in text chat to the game as well (console versions)?".. we will never know what is the majority or minority opinion of this game is.

Honestly? It does not matter whether there is a majority of players or not. ZOS has actually said that they have no plans to do a global auction house. On top of that, they have also said that they want to focus on new adventures and game experiences and not system changes. System changes tend to be poor sellers on the DLC shelf.

We are discussing the finer points of global auction house vs local trader. That is all that is happening in these threads. I hope that ZOS watches to cull ideas on how to make the guild traders better.

Edit: oops. last paragraph was lost.

Yeah they also said they would never move away from the strictly Sub based model. They said that Console Players would get the same experience as PC Players (No Text Chat/Only VOIP).

Theyve said a lot of things. Doesnt mean theyre going to stick to it or that theyre right because they put their foot down on a topic that they were idiots for putting their foot down about.

NhytFahl

Eshelmen wrote: »

I find it extremely ridiculous that I have to manually go to each guild trader to find the deals/items that I want.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This.

I wouldn't necessarily ask for a WoW-like "Auction House" central, because I do kind of like the idea of individual vendors.

Perhaps a happy medium? Something similar to what they did in the later stages of EverQuest, where you could open a window to search for specific things, and it would then tell you which vendors were selling that item and at what price.

That would not only let buyers find what they're looking for more easily, it would also let sellers know what the market rates are for the items they want to sell, so they can price themselves competitively.

idk

Alphashado wrote: »

Justice31st wrote: »

Don't forget the fact that some guild traders require a weekly fee they say is for their trader, but then they don't have one the following week or two and just pocket the money.

.... Or they got outbid. It's a blind bid system. You can only bid on one kiosk, and if another guild bids a higher amount, then you lose and don't get another shot til the following Monday.

Comments like this make me not even want to help run a trade guild anymore. You people have no idea how much work is involved, or how stressful it can be. And we do it for no other reason than to have fun and supply a good trader for 500 people. If we wanted to get rich, we would sell our items on someone else's store where we wouldn't have to use our own money just to afford the Kiosk.

BMW doesn't require a weekly fee, but I certainly understand why some guilds do it. If you guys hate the system, then fine. But please stop insulting those of us that are trying to make it work because it's all we have right now.

I agree. Justice shows he does not have a clue with making a comment like that.

poodlemasterb16_ESO

ROTFLMFAO. So you want an internet for Tamriel. A magic connected area for you to buy and sell like Amazon.

Having to go to various places to make deals on stuff is just what you would have to do in a technologically, fairly primitive society, just like the game we play in.

I make money in the economy and I like it. I can sell stuff cheaper than most and it moves. I can put prices for some things where I think it should be and it may not move for a while. I get to choose. The fact that you can find great deals if you look, is enough by it's self, to make a global auction house a bad idea.

newtinmpls

Jumper45 wrote: »

I do believe the current system is broken and needs a fix. My main problem with it is even after joining 5 trader guilds all of which require a weekly payment to stay joined so the guild leader can keep 70% of those profits for himself and use the other 30% to buy a guild trader. I still cant sell items even at cut prices because i cannot control the bidding process for the guild. The guild leader goes on vacation so i never get to sell my items or some other such situation. My Bank and all my guild stores are maxed out with items to sell i'll get a small trickle of sales but once that store shuts down im sitting on literally tons of items. As a Dungeon crawler I get a bunch of items and since i cant sell anything quickly or at all i have to vendor all of my drops ( i dont craft so i dont break down items) but pennies instead of 1,000 gold or something. I Have no room for anything bank is full inventory is full shop lists are full and still getting more. its very very annoying. Even after buying all the bag space i can etc. I am by no means greedy mind you. I'll undercut a item by 75% just to get rid of it because space is my problem not prices.

If you "can't sell items even at cut prices" then you are pricing things too high. Or simply selling things that are not worth purchasing (many of the jewelry items come to mind here).

If you are a member of guilds which charge a fee ... that's your choice. I am involved in four trade guilds (two accounts two servers) that don't charge fees and when we get a good spot - we sell well. As well, I have one guild that will sell foodstuffs really fast, another where vet crafted items sell best. Know your market.

Jumper45 wrote: »

Why do i have to teleport to 9 different locations and search around 72 vendors that never save my search selections to look for a peice of armor set..... Literally takes hours.

Those are hours you choose to spend.

I stop searching when it's no longer fun, and I let it go. I would recommend that as it works for me.

poodlemasterb16_ESO

I know it's no help for consoles, but AwesomeGuildStores lets me search a 5 store location in a minute or so.

Uberkull

newtinmpls wrote: »

I am involved in four trade guilds (two accounts two servers) that don't charge fees and when we get a good spot - we sell well.

'We' sell well. Lmao. You aren't supporting one of those trade guilds by being a member of FOUR.

That's the problem with the system. Sellers will sell when us GMs of trade guilds win a bid on a prime location trader. But as soon as we lose a bid and have no trader, or have to grab a swamp land trader for 100g at 7am est Monday morning, you 'Sellers' move all your items to another trade guild.

And don't come back with, 'but I donate 1000g or 10000g each week to the trade guild'. That's not going to help win any bid for a prime location. If you're committed to a trade guild, drop 100k a week. That will be a start.

This system is pure cutthroat. There is no concept of guild in a trade guild. It's whoever has the prime location that gets the Sellers.

newtinmpls

newtinmpls wrote: »

I am involved in four trade guilds (two accounts two servers) that don't charge fees and when we get a good spot - we sell well.

uberkull wrote: »

'We' sell well. Lmao. You aren't supporting one of those trade guilds by being a member of FOUR.

That's the problem with the system. Sellers will sell when us GMs of trade guilds win a bid on a prime location trader. But as soon as we lose a bid and have no trader, or have to grab a swamp land trader for 100g at 7am est Monday morning, you 'Sellers' move all your items to another trade guild.

At first I didn't understand what you were irritated at, after all my membership in any one trader doesn't have do to with any other membership.

So thank you for clarifying. I put up stuff for sale in a guild trader ... and in a different one ... and that's it. It either sells or it expires, and sometimes I move all the expired stuff to a trader where I have room and sometimes the luck of the RNG gods means that trader in whatever spot is a good place - and the stuff goes.

I personally don't move crap around (1-too disorganized, and 2-waay too lazy). I wouldn't have belevied it or come up with the idea - seems unethical to me. And it seems unkind. "We" (speaking as a member of whichever guild) sink or swim, sell or not together.

The guilds I'm in are all made up of pretty friendly folks and I wouldn't be so poor a friend as to pull stuff out at random like that (heck, quite a few times I'm selling to fellow guildies - I'd be a fool on a practical level to pull the stuff even when we don't happen to have a kiosk).

I'm sorry to hear GMs being treated like that. You deserve better, and I hope you boot the little boogers who act like that.

Sevalaricgirl

There are so many people who love the guild traders. Of course they would, they belong in those guilds but for those of us who don't want to be in a guild, it quite literally stinks. We can't sell stuff because we don't belong in said guilds.

This is honestly the dumbest thing ZOS instituted in the game. Other than that, I really enjoy the game. I have no idea why ZOS thought this was a good idea.

Callous2208

Sevalaricgirl wrote: »

There are so many people who love the guild traders. Of course they would, they belong in those guilds but for those of us who don't want to be in a guild, it quite literally stinks. We can't sell stuff because we don't belong in said guilds.

This is honestly the dumbest thing ZOS instituted in the game. Other than that, I really enjoy the game. I have no idea why ZOS thought this was a good idea.

You realize you can join those guilds and completely ignore everyone in them right? Just sell your wares and go on about your business as if they don't even exist. If you're pc, you can even block that specific guilds chat from appearing. I'm all for everyone doing their own thing but the old, "I don't want to join a guild and shouldn't have to," thing is a terrible reason to bash the system. And if you plan on doing any end game content, trust me, you'll need to join a guild eventually anyways.

newtinmpls

Callous2208 wrote: »

You realize you can join those guilds and completely ignore everyone in them right? Just sell your wares and go on about your business as if they don't even exist. If you're pc, you can even block that specific guilds chat from appearing. I'm all for everyone doing their own thing but the old, "I don't want to join a guild and shouldn't have to," thing is a terrible reason to bash the system. And if you plan on doing any end game content, trust me, you'll need to join a guild eventually anyways.

Good point. I hadn't realized that folks didn't realize this. With up to 500 members, its not like you are going to be chatted up often... or ever.

Eshelmen

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

ROTFLMFAO. So you want an internet for Tamriel. A magic connected area for you to buy and sell like Amazon.

Having to go to various places to make deals on stuff is just what you would have to do in a technologically, fairly primitive society, just like the game we play in.

I make money in the economy and I like it. I can sell stuff cheaper than most and it moves. I can put prices for some things where I think it should be and it may not move for a while. I get to choose. The fact that you can find great deals if you look, is enough by it's self, to make a global auction house a bad idea.

Hmmm somehow a world full of magic is realtistic, yet having some sort of worldwide trading/
communication tool is not?
lulz

Eshelmen

Nothing has changed. Monopolized world on the PS4 along with lack of instant communication tools make this economy suffer immensely.

SevenKingdoms

Johngo0036 wrote: »

Hey,

It would be VERY nice to have a central place that would search all guild stores and let me buy or sell that way..

Aka an auction house.

Zorrashi

Eshelmen wrote: »

Nothing has changed. Monopolized world on the PS4 along with lack of instant communication tools make this economy suffer immensely.

Ah yes, monopolies. Undisputed and presumably unworthy money mongerers that play dirty and have an unfair advantage.
Look, no one denies that some guild are extraordinarily powerful. Some of them even have "branching" guilds. But have you ever asked why?

They can supply the demand. They are not of the same stock that posts white items and have limited inventory like in Auridon. Even with donations (which only go to GMs or officers to pay for the kiosk anyway), the only reasons they are successful is because people flock to them for stuff despite their likely premium prices. Instead of looking at the guild, perhaps you should look at the people.
Besides which, that whole monopolistic conspiracy is rubbish. The only places they reign are in a mere handful of cities like Rawl'kha and alliance Capitol cities. And even then that is most likely due to capitalistic principles. But there are so many more towns and locations that it's not even funny how manny other kiosks exist. Do they get the same traffic? No, but that doesn't mean they get none at all.
Wood hearth, Auridon, Mistral, Etc.--all viable locations for guilds that are often used.

I don't even remember the last time my lone guild owned a kiosk, and despite that I still make a profit in zone (sorry if your console). The insistence that only 'top guilds' can profit is a myth.

Sevalaricgirl

Callous2208 wrote: »

Sevalaricgirl wrote: »

There are so many people who love the guild traders. Of course they would, they belong in those guilds but for those of us who don't want to be in a guild, it quite literally stinks. We can't sell stuff because we don't belong in said guilds.

This is honestly the dumbest thing ZOS instituted in the game. Other than that, I really enjoy the game. I have no idea why ZOS thought this was a good idea.

You realize you can join those guilds and completely ignore everyone in them right? Just sell your wares and go on about your business as if they don't even exist. If you're pc, you can even block that specific guilds chat from appearing. I'm all for everyone doing their own thing but the old, "I don't want to join a guild and shouldn't have to," thing is a terrible reason to bash the system. And if you plan on doing any end game content, trust me, you'll need to join a guild eventually anyways.

It's not about the ignoring, it's about it being a bad system. I should be able to not join a guild and sell stuff on an auction house...like every other game out there.

iNSiPiD1

Eshelmen wrote: »

Myyth wrote: »

"I'm going to reference World of Warcraft ONLY to compare their buying/selling system to ESO.

Whoever knows about World of Warcraft, knows the Auction House system is indeed genius. It works and it works very well."

Actually it doenst work well.
What always happens is that one player always buys every cheap item on the local server auction house, then reposts them all at outrageous high prices. As a result you have a couple auction troll players that monopolize and control the market. Examples are low level greens that sell for hundreds of gold because one player buys them all. And they use add ons to do all the work for them so they control the entire servers AH prices.

I am very glad we dont have that problem here in ESO and it really is an open fair market.

Actually I disagree. Here's why.
With your own example.
If an item is generally priced at say 100g, and someone foolishly sells that item for say 20G, of course someone will scoop it up and sell it for 80. It's part of the market.
But here's the good thing about that. EVERYONE has a chance to do this. And when you have literally hundreds if not thousands of players buying/selling in the same radius, it becomes a quick pace buying and selling system.

If someone actually does sell that 20g item for 80g, it's still a bargain for the rest of us (Compared to 100g average).


I'd rather know I can sell an item for undercut prices than biting my nails HOPING for any kind of sale, any day.

I disagree with this. Not everyone has a chance to get that deal, only the bots do, or the people who stare at the AH screen all day and keep refreshing it over and over. Since they don't have to actually do any work to get the deal other than see it first, it excludes the average player from every getting a good deal. This isn't the case in ESO, and I hope it stays that way.

Holycannoli

Alphashado wrote: »

500,000 people all using the same auction house. There are only two games that do this that I am aware of: Diablo 3 (which isn't really an accurate comparison) and GW2

Star Trek Online uses a global AH (called the "exchange"). There are no actual auctions, just buying and selling, and it's very convenient and works fine. Every single person in the game uses the same exchange, no servers splitting the population. I've never heard anyone complain about it except for the arbitrary limit of (I think) 500k credits per item which left out the big-ticket ships, which they recently increased to 750k btw because they finally listened to their players and did the right thing.

As a buyer I don't bother with ESO's ridiculously inconvenient and tedious system. I don't even bother with that crap in real life - I don't drive around to various stores for two hours to find something I want, I just go online in my underwear and buy it unless I know I can get it nearby.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Even classic Everquest from 16 years ago had a better trading system than ESO, and it didn't have automated trading. We all gathered in the same zone to buy and sell. That's what's important: A centralized zone for all trading. ESO's system is a gigantic waste of time.

uberkull wrote: »

Everyone in this thread is looking at this from a buyers perspective. Try being a GM of Trade Guilds and having to deal with the bidding process and the redicioulou amount of gold you have to spend to secure a trader in a prime location. Then forcing people to maximize sales, stressing about Inactives or low sales, forcing membership fees to sustain a gold reserve for next weeks bid. That is why the system is garbage.

If ZOS did this correctly there wouldn't be a need for trade guilds in the first place let alone bidding on locations.

Eshelmen

iNSiPiD1 wrote: »

Eshelmen wrote: »

Myyth wrote: »

"I'm going to reference World of Warcraft ONLY to compare their buying/selling system to ESO.

Whoever knows about World of Warcraft, knows the Auction House system is indeed genius. It works and it works very well."

Actually it doenst work well.
What always happens is that one player always buys every cheap item on the local server auction house, then reposts them all at outrageous high prices. As a result you have a couple auction troll players that monopolize and control the market. Examples are low level greens that sell for hundreds of gold because one player buys them all. And they use add ons to do all the work for them so they control the entire servers AH prices.

I am very glad we dont have that problem here in ESO and it really is an open fair market.

Actually I disagree. Here's why.
With your own example.
If an item is generally priced at say 100g, and someone foolishly sells that item for say 20G, of course someone will scoop it up and sell it for 80. It's part of the market.
But here's the good thing about that. EVERYONE has a chance to do this. And when you have literally hundreds if not thousands of players buying/selling in the same radius, it becomes a quick pace buying and selling system.

If someone actually does sell that 20g item for 80g, it's still a bargain for the rest of us (Compared to 100g average).


I'd rather know I can sell an item for undercut prices than biting my nails HOPING for any kind of sale, any day.

I disagree with this. Not everyone has a chance to get that deal, only the bots do, or the people who stare at the AH screen all day and keep refreshing it over and over. Since they don't have to actually do any work to get the deal other than see it first, it excludes the average player from every getting a good deal. This isn't the case in ESO, and I hope it stays that way.

You don't need to be looking at the screen all day. If you dont see the item you want at the price you're looking for, come back at another time. Pretty simple.
Saves more time than going to every single location to POSSIBLY get what you're looking for and then even less of a possibility to get it at the price you want. How is this current method more practical than what I'm saying?

If money was spent in all the right places, then bots would be the least of anyones concern. Look at the screen all you want, or don't and continue to play the game how you normally do, but the entire market is atleast accessible at any given time.

MikeB

This has been discussed a lot and everyone against it always says the same thing, that is far from true, that a small group of people just buy everything and monopolize the market on a central auction system.

Actually the current system favors monopolies. I've seen, and have been contacted by, the handful of people that control the market on XB1 NA. What did they contact me about? Buying my items of course, just so they could repost them at a higher price. I was fooled the first time by the sob story of the scammer but now I just tell them to get bent.

The controlling parties have others they pay with gold or in-game items to inform them if they see an item at a low price so they can scoop it up and resale it. The current system makes it where the seller doesn't have the ease of noticing someone as a monopolizer if said person is not in one of their trade guilds or if they don't care to spend the hours it takes to search all the trade guilds.

Buying something from another person via auction should not be a process that can take several hours, with all the traveling, load screens, lack of a named search system and ridiculous amounts of button pushes required per item searched.

xAPxZeez

Some people like it some hate it. This game uses this system. You are crazy to think it's going to change though. Also Some people do nothing but buy and sell in this game. They are their own little Wall Street. They do not quest nor level they just buy/sell and resell for profit. Is it something I do? No but they do it and enjoy it.

I have been playing mmo's since the 90s and while global AH are convenient for the shopper it does trivialize prices on most things and create obscenely high prices on others. The fact you have to pay to list an idea on your trader and that nobody may even visit your guild trader or you may lose your spot forces you to really think about the prices you set and not just undercut the other guy so yours would be "next bought" until you're undercut.

This game forces you to shop around and spend a lot of time if you want to save. Yes it's time consuming but prices do eventually land at an agreeable place. But sometimes people sell something amazing at a real low cost not knowing or unable to see what they could get for it.

I bought a hakeijo for 17k yesterday to use. I was happy since the others were going for 25kish.
That doesn't happen as often. Some things get farmed until the prices are set to worthless from undercutting or obscene amounts for rare things.

RatedChaotic

Bidding for traders. Stupid. When people buy gold from online sources. How is that fair? Guess I'll recruit some rich kids so I can always keep my trader.

Didgerion

Eshelmen wrote: »

My BIGGEST issue in this game..... Guild Traders
Thank you.

You are an extremely happy player if that is your biggest issue.

strikeback1247

Hmmm imagine what the big trading guilds will do with all the gold they have if an AH is released. All those millions of gold can be easily used to create a big monopoly problem if guild traders are removed.

RatedChaotic

strikeback1247 wrote: »

Hmmm imagine what the big trading guilds will do with all the gold they have if an AH is released. All those millions of gold can be easily used to create a big monopoly problem if guild traders are removed.

Not really. Say they set the price for an item worth 500g to a price of 2000g. Joe Shmo uncuts to 1500 either way it will get bought by the ones trying to controll it or another person either way Joe gets gold. Theres way too many players for a group of 500 to control the market. Plus you'll have multiple groups trying the same thing. Wanna know what the outcome will be? No one will be in control.

joker0137

Its frustrating trying to sell you stock as well. I sell items between two Guilds (one popular and 1 not as popular) and the popular guild items can be sold within 24 hours. But with the not so popular guild my items just lay there for the month, even tho they are listed at low low prices. I keep my prices low but I don't want to have to start lowering prices so much that its not worth me selling anything.