Gap closer root is increasingly becoming the last straw for me. Can't see a reason to continue.

Hiero_Glyph · January 2016

Xjcon wrote: »

Tamanous wrote: »

Xjcon wrote: »

This needs changed NOW. Cause a stam sorc says so!

Sorry can't feel bad for a class that holds down the meta right now.

The vast majority of threads are complaining about NBs being EVERYWHERE.

Stop making up crap to get a point across. Using the word "meta" is a license for cool either.

Really. Go watch what players who don't suck can do with stam Sorc. Or magicka Sorc. Both have serious advantages right now. Stam sorc heals from damage, vigor, and Rally (forgot the morph) not to mention they have increased stam regen other classes don't have. Magicka has non crittable shields for days.

Sorc CLASS is very strong right now.

Besides you won't get mini stunned anymore they already said they are going to change it to a slow.

Yes, magicka Sorc is a very strong class right now but that's not what you claimed previously. Stam Sorc is all utility and then weapon skills; it's mediocre in the current meta. Do you ever actually listen to what King Richard and FENGRUSH are saying when they stream their stam Sorcs? It's not a favorable meta for stam Sorcs right now. Better yet, have you actually played a stam Sorc in the current meta? Those non crittable shields for days prevent all healing from Surge.

Ezareth · January 2016

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

Xjcon wrote: »

Tamanous wrote: »

Xjcon wrote: »

This needs changed NOW. Cause a stam sorc says so!

Sorry can't feel bad for a class that holds down the meta right now.

The vast majority of threads are complaining about NBs being EVERYWHERE.

Stop making up crap to get a point across. Using the word "meta" is a license for cool either.

Really. Go watch what players who don't suck can do with stam Sorc. Or magicka Sorc. Both have serious advantages right now. Stam sorc heals from damage, vigor, and Rally (forgot the morph) not to mention they have increased stam regen other classes don't have. Magicka has non crittable shields for days.

Sorc CLASS is very strong right now.

Besides you won't get mini stunned anymore they already said they are going to change it to a slow.

Yes, magicka Sorc is a very strong class right now but that's not what you claimed previously. Stam Sorc is all utility and then weapon skills; it's mediocre in the current meta. Do you ever actually listen to what King Richard and FENGRUSH are saying when they stream their stam Sorcs? It's not a favorable meta for stam Sorcs right now. Better yet, have you actually played a stam Sorc in the current meta? Those non crittable shields for days prevent all healing from Surge.

It's a good thing stamina has no other sources of healing that pretty much every other stamina build in the game relies upon for healing just fine. Stam sorc is fine in the current meta. Thankfully this thread is about gap-closers and the ridiculous change associated with them that is destroying the actual *combat* in this game.

Gotta agree with the OP completely on this one.

Thelon · January 2016

Xjcon wrote: »

This needs changed NOW. Cause a stam sorc says so!

Sorry can't feel bad for a class that holds down the meta right now.

You don't know what meta means

Hiero_Glyph · January 2016

Maybe ZOS should fix Ambush and gap closers to work like Focused Charge where it randomly disables all of your attacks after activating it. This has been a feature of Focused Charge since beta so it is obviously working as intended. It seems only fair that other classes should share this feature as well. [/sarcasm]

Cathexis · January 2016

I'd just like to make it clear that my intention of this thread is not focus on nightblades and single them out as needing to be nerfed.

@Wing I completely agree with you that gap closers should be able to be used as a counter to mobility as a means to kill your opponent. However, right now gap closers are a hard counter (bleh I hate that word) for mobility. You might as well just stand still the whole time while fighting a large group because moving around while fighting doesn't really offer an advantage; is that really how you want combat to go? Ungrouped players just get rolled over because they can't move around on the battlefield as an alternative to being protected by a horde? Its absolutely absurd.

@vamp_emily I am a better player than you will ever be, I bet you can't beat me without this trash mechanic or a zerg train. Sounds to me more like a classic case of you being a forum troll DB.

@Neighbor it was not put into the patch notes it was only implemented a very short while ago

@Bazeric yes bazeric it is noticable 1v1, but what I mean to say is that in 1v1 you had as much opportunity to pin down your opponent as they do so in a straight up fight it doesn't straight up wreck you.

@Hiero_Glyph I dont think they need to fix gap closers in general, for the most part they were working fine other than ambush needing a minimum range. At this point, with this current implementation, I see absolutely no reason to play anything other than an Ambush Stamblade, because the new meta will just increasingly shift to ambush - and thats it just ambush, no other skills involved.

My biggest problem with it as well is that it goes through maneuvers, evasion, forward momentum, and it cant be CC broken by non-skill based means. I would be at least OK with it if the counters I regularly apply to all other CC would actually work for the purpose they are supposed to.

Lets me be clear here. I am running what should technically be counters to this BS.

Cathexis · January 2016

@CrowsDescend just referencing your video again.

https://youtu.be/EY-exbyjme0

This is a classic example of the situation I am talking about. The guy is using CC immunity. That guy has no other option but to escape in that situation. What is he going to do, stand and fight 10 AD? and not just fight, LITERALLY STAND because you can't do anything else!

It is STUPID. If that's honestly how people and @Wrobel think fighting in Cyrodiil should be, I'm done with the game, and I will definitely recommend others not invest time in this game.

jhharvest · January 2016

Gap closers should just track the target like in other games. If you reach max distance from starting point, gap closer ends. If you reach within melee range of target, you deal damage and gap closer ends. Really not that complicated.

Korah_Eaglecry · January 2016

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

MikeB wrote: »

People that complain that they can't take on groups of people baffle me. Its called balance, get used to it.

There's a difference between not being able to deal with incoming damage from multiple players, and not being able to do anything whatsoever because multiple players are ambush spamming you. No one is asking to be able to sponge up the incoming damage, they just want a fighting chance at repositioning, returning damage, popping a potion, escaping, whatever. Rather than just being frozen to the spot despite cc immunity with the only option being to accept death without putting up a fight. Fact is some players are more skilled than others, through practice or whatever, and multiple mini-stuns negate any skill the defending player might have.

So youre telling me if a gang of people jumped you all at once youd be able to fight back? Yeah okay. This is the level of arrogance and stupidity that permeates in this forum. People think they should be able to do all sorts of illogical and down right unthinkable things because theyve been sheltered and put on pedestals in Single Player Games. Welcome to Multiplayer gaming. Where you need to come at your opponent on even footing or outnumber them. None of this 1vX nonsense.

FriedEggSandwich · January 2016

jhharvest wrote: »

Gap closers should just track the target like in other games. If you reach max distance from starting point, gap closer ends. If you reach within melee range of target, you deal damage and gap closer ends. Really not that complicated.

This is how it used to work a few patches ago and everyone was fine with it. System should revert to this, then there would be no need for a minimum distance on amush imo.

Didgerion · January 2016

Looking forward to see the results of the 60% snare fix.

I always wondered how slow motioned dodge roll looks like.
Slow motioned strikes should be a very cool thing too.
And slow motioned ambush hell yeah!!!! I won't need my cloak anymore!!

Really @Wrobel please review the solution..and in between please rollback that change...let the gap closer miss the target sometimes...it is natural to miss it sometimes you know....ask Michael Jordan.

FriedEggSandwich · January 2016

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

MikeB wrote: »

People that complain that they can't take on groups of people baffle me. Its called balance, get used to it.

There's a difference between not being able to deal with incoming damage from multiple players, and not being able to do anything whatsoever because multiple players are ambush spamming you. No one is asking to be able to sponge up the incoming damage, they just want a fighting chance at repositioning, returning damage, popping a potion, escaping, whatever. Rather than just being frozen to the spot despite cc immunity with the only option being to accept death without putting up a fight. Fact is some players are more skilled than others, through practice or whatever, and multiple mini-stuns negate any skill the defending player might have.

So youre telling me if a gang of people jumped you all at once youd be able to fight back? Yeah okay. This is the level of arrogance and stupidity that permeates in this forum. People think they should be able to do all sorts of illogical and down right unthinkable things because theyve been sheltered and put on pedestals in Single Player Games. Welcome to Multiplayer gaming. Where you need to come at your opponent on even footing or outnumber them. None of this 1vX nonsense.

I've been multiplayer gaming for 18 years which might be longer than you've been around for all I can tell. Yes I'm saying that if I get jumped by multiple players and their damage isn't sufficient to insta-gib me then I should have options; my controls should not sieze up and prevent me from doing anything. No arrogance there. Your comment tells me you don't even know the root of the issue people are complaining about.

Bazeric · January 2016

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

Maybe ZOS should fix Ambush and gap closers to work like Focused Charge where it randomly disables all of your attacks after activating it. This has been a feature of Focused Charge since beta so it is obviously working as intended. It seems only fair that other classes should share this feature as well. [/sarcasm]

Why not give them the same pathing as Focus Charge so everyone can know the love of watching you character have an epileptic fit half the time you try to close on someone.

@Cathexis No worries, just chalk it up to semantics. I was just trying to clarify since some people don't believe this is 'something'. I'd perhaps say that, "it is less of an issue 1v1 when someone abuses utilizes this mechanic." But I'll leave you to it. Carry on.

Cathexis · January 2016

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

MikeB wrote: »

People that complain that they can't take on groups of people baffle me. Its called balance, get used to it.

There's a difference between not being able to deal with incoming damage from multiple players, and not being able to do anything whatsoever because multiple players are ambush spamming you. No one is asking to be able to sponge up the incoming damage, they just want a fighting chance at repositioning, returning damage, popping a potion, escaping, whatever. Rather than just being frozen to the spot despite cc immunity with the only option being to accept death without putting up a fight. Fact is some players are more skilled than others, through practice or whatever, and multiple mini-stuns negate any skill the defending player might have.

So youre telling me if a gang of people jumped you all at once youd be able to fight back? Yeah okay. This is the level of arrogance and stupidity that permeates in this forum. People think they should be able to do all sorts of illogical and down right unthinkable things because theyve been sheltered and put on pedestals in Single Player Games. Welcome to Multiplayer gaming. Where you need to come at your opponent on even footing or outnumber them. None of this 1vX nonsense.

@Korah_Eaglecry Except the premise that you need to come on am even footing is absurd in a giant sandbox PvP arena. Why do you want a game where 10v1 = absolute victory? Are you really that poor a player that you have to gangbeat people with no resistance whatsoever? Being 10x the number of players is not enough for you? Sounds pathetic to me.

Didgerion · January 2016

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

MikeB wrote: »

People that complain that they can't take on groups of people baffle me. Its called balance, get used to it.

There's a difference between not being able to deal with incoming damage from multiple players, and not being able to do anything whatsoever because multiple players are ambush spamming you. No one is asking to be able to sponge up the incoming damage, they just want a fighting chance at repositioning, returning damage, popping a potion, escaping, whatever. Rather than just being frozen to the spot despite cc immunity with the only option being to accept death without putting up a fight. Fact is some players are more skilled than others, through practice or whatever, and multiple mini-stuns negate any skill the defending player might have.

So youre telling me if a gang of people jumped you all at once youd be able to fight back? Yeah okay. This is the level of arrogance and stupidity that permeates in this forum. People think they should be able to do all sorts of illogical and down right unthinkable things because theyve been sheltered and put on pedestals in Single Player Games. Welcome to Multiplayer gaming. Where you need to come at your opponent on even footing or outnumber them. None of this 1vX nonsense.

@Korah_Eaglecry You are so wrong and arrogant...if a group of people jumps on you all at once then you roll dodge...and voila - they miss, then you go out of the view sight and voila there is just one or 2 that can chase you closely and you take them out one by one. But wait you cannot roll dodge you are frozen they had magically frozen you and you have to take their hit.

It is like
- Uh-Oh look they are gap closing me....let me just stay still so they wont miss me. Is it how you fight?

Xjcon · January 2016

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

Xjcon wrote: »

Tamanous wrote: »

Xjcon wrote: »

This needs changed NOW. Cause a stam sorc says so!

Sorry can't feel bad for a class that holds down the meta right now.

The vast majority of threads are complaining about NBs being EVERYWHERE.

Stop making up crap to get a point across. Using the word "meta" is a license for cool either.

Really. Go watch what players who don't suck can do with stam Sorc. Or magicka Sorc. Both have serious advantages right now. Stam sorc heals from damage, vigor, and Rally (forgot the morph) not to mention they have increased stam regen other classes don't have. Magicka has non crittable shields for days.

Sorc CLASS is very strong right now.

Besides you won't get mini stunned anymore they already said they are going to change it to a slow.

Yes, magicka Sorc is a very strong class right now but that's not what you claimed previously. Stam Sorc is all utility and then weapon skills; it's mediocre in the current meta. Do you ever actually listen to what King Richard and FENGRUSH are saying when they stream their stam Sorcs? It's not a favorable meta for stam Sorcs right now. Better yet, have you actually played a stam Sorc in the current meta? Those non crittable shields for days prevent all healing from Surge.

First off I didn't say Stam sorc was the meta. I said Sorc class. Mostly meaning the magicka version. Hence the use of the word class. Not spec.

All builds suffer from the mini stun. Sorc the least as they can use streak to stun and get some distance. A DK or Templar however has less mobility so less ways to deal with the mini stun.

Xjcon · January 2016

Thelon wrote: »

Xjcon wrote: »

This needs changed NOW. Cause a stam sorc says so!

Sorry can't feel bad for a class that holds down the meta right now.

You don't know what meta means

I guess not. Perhaps I should have said most effective/easiest class to win with.

Wing · January 2016

I would actually like the ability to be untargetable show up in more single target personal escape skills such as mist form.

if you are IN a zerg of 10+ people, meh you are probably dead .5 sec gap close cheese or not. anything you can do to get away they can follow in most cases (Sorc and NB are designed to with skill be able to get out of this, Temp and DK fight or die.)

HOWEVER

if you are not yet in the fight you should have the ability to get away from the fight. this is were things like the untargetable mist form, or a self cast self target only retreat maneuver that made you untargetable should come in.

designed to be ineffective in combat (disabling on damage or what have you) but allow you the option to avoid combat if you want. that I can get behind, you should ABSOLUTLY be able to run from or avoid the zerg before it gets to you.

acw37162 · January 2016

You should be very careful what you ask for, this one believes you will not like the "fix"

MaxwellC · January 2016

@Cathexis
xboxdvr.com/gamer/Maxwell/video/13530822

Oh yeah I definitely get what you're saying, enough is enough.

FriedEggSandwich · January 2016

acw37162 wrote: »

You should be very careful what you ask for, this one believes you will not like the "fix"

The 'fix' should just be to revert back to the way gap-closers used to work, because they were effective at gap-closing then. Now they are also effective at freezing your opponent to the spot, ignoring any cc immunity, which is an effect not listed in any tooltip.

Skinzz · January 2016

If youre in a 1vX situation then the odds are already against your favor. Maybe you should choose when to/not engage.

CaptainObvious · January 2016

Gap closers always did a cc on the target to look pretty. The only reason you are noticing it now is because they are being spammed ad infinitum. Reverse slash has the same cc minor effect, but has not become as whineable because it isn't a direct gap closer.

That is why NBs are the current complaint target. A gap closer with no minimum range. Just stack and hold down teleport strike to win.

Once/if gap closers lose cc immunity, the next thing will be to simply gap close and spam reverse slash en masse to soft cc hold the target until death. The devs focused too much on "the feeling that attacks have impact" in PvP and opened so many exploitable cheese techniques in the process.

Cathexis · January 2016

To those who say you should always lose a 1vX I give you

https://youtu.be/X8_zWBQXZj4

https://youtu.be/njAs6eFP6xk

https://youtu.be/PCLkUNG6jkE

OGLezard · January 2016

Cathexis wrote: »

@CrowsDescend just referencing your video again.

https://youtu.be/EY-exbyjme0

This is a classic example of the situation I am talking about. The guy is using CC immunity. That guy has no other option but to escape in that situation. What is he going to do, stand and fight 10 AD? and not just fight, LITERALLY STAND because you can't do anything else!

It is STUPID. If that's honestly how people and @Wrobel think fighting in Cyrodiil should be, I'm done with the game, and I will definitely recommend others not invest time in this game.

TO ANY MOD READING THIS, THIS IS NOT CONSPIRACY THIS IS MY OPINION, I AM ENTITLED TO AN OPINION

@Cathexis welcome to eso!

They just now admitted "yea it is kind of over the top" but then showed us new crown store content and said "look at the shiny" I said it in one of my threads; I am ok with NO content for 6 months as long as they give us balance patches, exploit patches, and FIX broken stuff in this game.

IMO, every patch they release just stupifies this game more and more. Slot whatever OP skill is the "meta" and begin to press it over and over. Dont forget to wear the same exact gear combos as everyone or you will just get laughed at. That mentality is getting worse and worse EVERY. SINGLE. PATCH! Go step foot into pvp and tell me how many groups crit charge wb spam you. THAT is the meta now.

Cathexis · January 2016

@CaptainObvious no this is not the cc effects included in gap closer like crit rush, this is the 1s unresistable root that was added to ensure gap closers connect with their target. Its added the nasty effect of also keeping you stuck in place if you are being gap closed by multiple people.

Cathexis · January 2016

OGLezard wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

@CrowsDescend just referencing your video again.

https://youtu.be/EY-exbyjme0

This is a classic example of the situation I am talking about. The guy is using CC immunity. That guy has no other option but to escape in that situation. What is he going to do, stand and fight 10 AD? and not just fight, LITERALLY STAND because you can't do anything else!

It is STUPID. If that's honestly how people and @Wrobel think fighting in Cyrodiil should be, I'm done with the game, and I will definitely recommend others not invest time in this game.

TO ANY MOD READING THIS, THIS IS NOT CONSPIRACY THIS IS MY OPINION, I AM ENTITLED TO AN OPINION

@Cathexis welcome to eso!

They just now admitted "yea it is kind of over the top" but then showed us new crown store content and said "look at the shiny" I said it in one of my threads; I am ok with NO content for 6 months as long as they give us balance patches, exploit patches, and FIX broken stuff in this game.

IMO, every patch they release just stupifies this game more and more. Slot whatever OP skill is the "meta" and begin to press it over and over. Dont forget to wear the same exact gear combos as everyone or you will just get laughed at. That mentality is getting worse and worse EVERY. SINGLE. PATCH! Go step foot into pvp and tell me how many groups crit charge wb spam you. THAT is the meta now.

@OGLezard I won't lie to you I am a crit rush wrecking blow build, but as a sorcerer stamina tank those are literally the only skills I have at my disposal to do effective enough damage. Yes its aweful. I definitely do not like how most good builds basically build around wrecking blow, steel tornado, proxy det, batswarm, surprise attack or are sorcerers but it's the way things have been since they removed softcaps. Prior to softcap removal you could run just about any skill combo and be successful.

Its really sad everyone wants the game mechanics to make characters completely homogenized.

timidobserver · January 2016

xskinzcity wrote: »

If youre in a 1vX situation then the odds are already against your favor. Maybe you should choose when to/not engage.

You already have a natural disadvantage if you are outnumbered. The game mechanics don't need to compound it.

If it isn't lagging, 10 people crit rushing spamming you as you run away are probably going to end up killing you anyway. The game doesn't need to hold you in place as well.

Cathexis · January 2016

timidobserver wrote: »

xskinzcity wrote: »

If youre in a 1vX situation then the odds are already against your favor. Maybe you should choose when to/not engage.

You already have a natural disadvantage if you are outnumbered. The game mechanics don't need to compound it.

@Wrobel
@ZOS_BrianWheeler
@ZOS_GinaBruno

1000% THIS.

@timidobserver NAILED IT.

1000% AGREE.

silky_soft · January 2016

It's a game mechanic peoples. Just like the ability to spam the khajiit out of a 100% crit reducing, non penetrable defense.

Draxys · January 2016

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

Again, the fix is to have all gap closers target an area where the player is when the ability is cast. The area's radius can be adjusted depending on the gap closer's animation. If the target is still in that area then they take damage. If not, then the gap closer misses but the animation still moves the attacking player. This makes mobility counter gap closers, and CC effects counter mobility. Note that WW's Pounce already works in a similar manner.

Agreed. Dk leap works the same way. If the leap is from far enough away, the person can literally just move a bit and avoid the leap entirely, but the leap still works. Sometimes results in a wasted ultimate, but that's the way all gap closers should work.