Gap closer root is increasingly becoming the last straw for me. Can't see a reason to continue.

ragespell

+1
this mini stun after a gap closer is just stupid.
And players abusing it should just feel ashamed of themselves

Joy_Division

Another classic case of ZoS "fixing" something that isn't broke and nobody asked for.

I used gap closer all the time and each of my characters since launch and I never thought "Gee, these skills are useless because they constantly miss." On the contrary, being on the receiving on of one too many DK invasion-talon-whip-whip-whip combos, I thought gap closers were always quite powerful.

Hope499

CrowsDescend wrote: »

Completely agree. Gap-closers need a look at, because on one hand, I understand that they slightly help keep consistent damage on a target who is moving, but on the other hand, it's abused by classes that can continuously gap-close, without much penalty towards their resource costs, etc.

Jura23 wrote: »

One of the reasons why mist form is such a joke - because half the time you spend gap close rooted.

As presented in this short video, where I use Retreating Maneuvers and Mist Form, yet you'll notice that the group can continuously gap-close me through Mist Form and Retreating Maneuvers. Despite what the tooltips state about CC in general; a gap-closer is a mini-stun, and it ignores CC Immunity, it's still effective (and annoying as ever.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EY-exbyjme0

Looks a bit laggy yea...but....

Are you supposed to just run away with no problem?
Looks like you got caught fair and square....

Hiero_Glyph

Hope499 wrote: »

CrowsDescend wrote: »

Completely agree. Gap-closers need a look at, because on one hand, I understand that they slightly help keep consistent damage on a target who is moving, but on the other hand, it's abused by classes that can continuously gap-close, without much penalty towards their resource costs, etc.

Jura23 wrote: »

One of the reasons why mist form is such a joke - because half the time you spend gap close rooted.

As presented in this short video, where I use Retreating Maneuvers and Mist Form, yet you'll notice that the group can continuously gap-close me through Mist Form and Retreating Maneuvers. Despite what the tooltips state about CC in general; a gap-closer is a mini-stun, and it ignores CC Immunity, it's still effective (and annoying as ever.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EY-exbyjme0

Looks a bit laggy yea...but....

Are you supposed to just run away with no problem?
Looks like you got caught fair and square....

Note the way he stops running for no reason other than to allow the gap closer magically connect each time. Do you think while running away he had to stop and catch his breath? I understand that the mini-stun is subtle but are players really this ignorant to gameplay mechanics?

timidobserver

Yeah this was a pretty bad change. I would like to know what even prompted it.

Lightninvash

Cathexis wrote: »

This is just another zerg tool designed to make it even harder to 1vX.

I have generally supported a lot of design changes, many of which many people felt were bad designs. But this one is just really bad. I'm even using maneuvers and immovable it is impossible to change positions in a battle where you are outnumbered now - you just get drilled by like 10 people and thats it.

It's boring and it is not fun. It completely diminishes the need for and use of actual skill in PvP.

It's just another change that favours large groups, and its just another nail in the coffin for PvP and for me. I almost quit after yesterday, and after playing tonight again, I can't see why I would continue to play with the current state of PvP favouring groups so heavily. With the root it is impossible to engage groups with lesser numbers unless you blatantly outperform them in build or stats. Now I know I might be biased; running a stamina sorcerer requires using high mobility to survive - this root is making mobility based survival impossible. Some may say "well you shouldn't be running" but thats not how sorcerers work. I run a very tanky build. I do stay and fight, but I'm not a dk or a temp - sorcs dont have the capacity to stand in a hailstorm of players. Moving around is a critical component, even running a heavy tank build in pvp. I might give it a few more days, but unless this change goes, I think this game is over for me.

Edit; After giving it another night I've come to the same conclusion which is that it simply isn't worth playing this game anymore with the current state of pvp and this new gap closer debuff. It is basically easy mode, and completely ruins what was left of any fun dynamic between players in pvp.

(No trolls you can't have my stuff.)

@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_BrianWheeler

From this point forward I will be editing my replies into my original post for everyone I reply to.

@Yolokin_Swagonborn I agree with you entirely, it is fixing something that isn't broken. At all.

@Tonnopesceb16_ESO Why though, prior to these changes I was 1vZerging all the time, it is an incredible fun play style. No that does not mean I am running into an entire army and killing them. What it means is being able to skirt the zerg and pick off stragglers, seige users, etc. Very rarely can you actually pick a zerg appart solo to such an extent that you can defeat the entire group - and in that situation you are almost always being assisted by pugs. Prior to these changes, it was possible, but now the second I charge into a group, all they have to do is gap close and suddenly I go from offensive status to emergency evac. But look at it from the flip side, the zerg already has far superior numbers, damage, healing, and coordination of skills. Why are we giving the zerg more advantages when there is already such an extremely superior benefit to running in numbers.

@Malmai I have to strongly disagree with you in this case. I have been tolerating the lag for two years. Nothing has made me more disheartened to play my main character than this gap closer root change.

@Wing until this change I had no problem with zergs I love to play solo I'm still not having problems with zergs - the gap closing root just makes them impossible to engage on your own anymore. The situations you describe, while they may be annoying situations to encounter, are players exercising skills which allow them to evade attacks. As such, those skills should allow them to avoid being attacked.

Being able to root someone down with a gap closer because they have strategies to avoid your attacks completely guts combat dynamics. It once again deminishes combat to "who can hit who the hardest, who can hit who first" and completely eliminates any need for class roles or build diversity.

@Cinnamon_Spider Exactly. It is really stupid, "oh someone is charging at me, so I should stand still and not move while 10 people hit me at once." If players are that bad that they can't handle hitting a target and they need everyone who gets gap closed to be rooted down, I don't want to play this game anymore because it is lame.

@MikeB Explain to me how it is balanced that one player can be perma-rooted to the ground with an unbreakable root while getting gang beaten on by 10+ players. That isn't balanced at all, the solo player has absolutely 0% chance of survival. BEING IN A GROUP =/= GOD MODE, NOR IS THAT AN ACCEPTABLE STANCE TO TAKE ON BALANCE. This isn't just about "taking on the zerg" man. If you actually go out and fight in cyrodiil you will find that basically any match where you are outnumbered even by a ratio of one extra player is basically a loss for the team with lower numbers between evenly matched players. Why even bother fighting at all when the outcome is fixed??

@Artjuh90 This has nothing to do with "building the game around small scale." It is a poorly designed mechanic plain and simple. It basically ensures that in a 1v10 or 9v10 situation the 1 or 9 always dies. Period. There is no chance to resist AT ALL. All the 10 has to do is continually gap closer spam. Thats it - there is no dynamic combat or any use of tactics.

@Artjuh90 @CrowsDescend this is the problem with the game at present, everything caters to the zerg. Standing in a group in this game right now is basically typing in the god mode cheat. It is dumb. Smaller groups and solo players SHOULD have a chance to take on larger groups! Being in a larger group shouldnt just make you able to flatten everything in your path.

I disagree with this one of my guilds we fight on xbox NA in the scorage campaign that is dominated by Ep we are AD. we like the challenge of our small groups vs the zergs. And me being awesome player that I am have been known to get away from a zerg knock back rooting them ect. then the guild asking how I survived and I look at them like cus im a boss haha. and then go back and revive them. even when it comes down to my lvl 27 DK we were in sewers in EP area I was able to escape a group of round 8+( we hadkilled a smaller group of 3-4 and they came for revenge) we had 4 ppl 1 lagged out and I managed to evade them and resurrect the team to keep farming and didn't lose my 1.5k stones. it is very hard to evade a larger group however not impossible. just takes a lot of time and practice.

mr_wazzabi

I think the gap closer root is a bug tbh, for the simple fact that immovability powers don't prevent it.

Has anyone from zos acknowledged the gap closer root?

Btw, bombard from the bow skill line applies the same root. I had it spammed on me yesterday...

Tankqull

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

I think the gap closer root is a bug tbh, for the simple fact that immovability powers don't prevent it.

Has anyone from zos acknowledged the gap closer root?

Btw, bombard from the bow skill line applies the same root. I had it spammed on me yesterday...

yes - and they announced a reduction of the 100% snare value to some lesser value... wich remains stupid.

bombard is completly different it provides a normal root as its skill announces its problem though is the lack of a cc immunity after rolling out of a root.

Crimsonwolf666

I agree that for skill like Retreating Maneuvers, should have the immunity it says it should. But this is open world PvP. Ppl run in large groups because realistically and mathematicly it mostly ensures survival and elimination of enemies. Solo playing just isn't what Cyrodiil or IC were designed for. I feel like this is about complaining that one can't take on an entire group and then escape when #$%÷ hits the fan. Which, btw, I have had and seen plenty of Sorcs and NBs escape with Bolt and Shadow cloak. Because of how mechanics are with every attack; example I have let off a Lethal arrow and watched it curve almost 90 degrees to hit an enemy; I imagine that the gap closers cause a root to keep ppl from falling through the world and into the Twilight zone. But I don't see an issue considering the type of PvP this is. I suggest trying to run with a few ppl to mitigate having the root from gap closers be detrimental. Sorry if that isn't what you wanted to hear, but considering ALL the other plethora of issues involved with not just PvP, but the game in general, I don't think this even rates in the top ten of problems.

OGLezard

Just think....this has been here for a long time now and people are just now catching on when it comes to how to abuse it. Theres reasons zergaderps(even the group known as "We Are WB") have their members all crit charge the same person into WB spam executioner.......works everytime.

Autolycus

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

Quick solution? CHANGE CAMPAIGN!
Usually zergs are organized differently tru the campaigns and not everyone use the same tactics, you cant pretend to 1vZerg and is right that you can't. ]

"If you don't like it then leave" is a poor mentality to have here. Obvious troll is obvious.

The OP is right; gap closer root has eliminated a large portion of the demand and viability for player skill.

I55UE5

I have run into players that abuse it, which is just sad really. it needs to have a minimum distance to cast like all other gap closers.

The snare they are adding might work, as long as it works the right way. The pain in being spam bushed is that your combos get messed up when you try to cast something in the same moment you are being ambushed

Xjcon

This needs changed NOW. Cause a stam sorc says so!

Sorry can't feel bad for a class that holds down the meta right now.

NobleNerd

Wing wrote: »

I here about this a lot and I have lived in azuras full time over the past while to take a break from PvE and the only time I see people actually spam gap closers is when its required to get the kill (sorc bolting away, dodge rolling, some youtuber trying to get leet clips so a combination of dodge rolling spaz jumping fast movement rock hiding etc.)

In those cases, yeah its required. I have specifically done it once to a particular player myself because they were annoying the crap out of me and I KNEW it would annoy them. when people spaz all over the place, dodge roll, lag, or bolt escape, normal skills DONT HIT. try to land an uppercut / surprise attack / jabs / etc. on one of those people.

the only gap closer that can be used point blank is ambush, and that should have a minimum range I agree, but if you get hit with any other (that all have a minimum range requirement) they are using it correctly.

as for zergs. . .yeah they don't ambush, they blob and cast smart heals / steel tornado / bat swarm / proxy det.

if you want tips on zergs ask Daniel or go play DC.

So much of this gap closer and ability spam could be solved by implementing cool downs on key abilities. I know ZOS went more with the whole resource burn to manage ability spam and that just hasn't worked out. Place a x.0 sec cool down on said abilities forcing them to actually use something else other than Spambush, Spamjabs, etc.

To the original post.... I can see the issue with the gap closer lock downs and pvp is frustrating at times. So many times I am constantly lock down even when I have broke free and should be immune... I blame it on the lag at times, but honestly am not sure what the exact issue is.

Potenza

Just remove all CC's from PvP and it will solve a lot of the problems and promote more fluid play.

Whats the point in CC's if there are gap closers anyway.

Lightninvash

NobleNerd wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

I here about this a lot and I have lived in azuras full time over the past while to take a break from PvE and the only time I see people actually spam gap closers is when its required to get the kill (sorc bolting away, dodge rolling, some youtuber trying to get leet clips so a combination of dodge rolling spaz jumping fast movement rock hiding etc.)

In those cases, yeah its required. I have specifically done it once to a particular player myself because they were annoying the crap out of me and I KNEW it would annoy them. when people spaz all over the place, dodge roll, lag, or bolt escape, normal skills DONT HIT. try to land an uppercut / surprise attack / jabs / etc. on one of those people.

the only gap closer that can be used point blank is ambush, and that should have a minimum range I agree, but if you get hit with any other (that all have a minimum range requirement) they are using it correctly.

as for zergs. . .yeah they don't ambush, they blob and cast smart heals / steel tornado / bat swarm / proxy det.

if you want tips on zergs ask Daniel or go play DC.

So much of this gap closer and ability spam could be solved by implementing cool downs on key abilities. I know ZOS went more with the whole resource burn to manage ability spam and that just hasn't worked out. Place a x.0 sec cool down on said abilities forcing them to actually use something else other than Spambush, Spamjabs, etc.

To the original post.... I can see the issue with the gap closer lock downs and pvp is frustrating at times. So many times I am constantly lock down even when I have broke free and should be immune... I blame it on the lag at times, but honestly am not sure what the exact issue is.

I feel like ambush as stated above if it had a minimum distance it would prevent spamming and as for cool downs it would cause a huge uproar and rage quitting.

Hiero_Glyph

Xjcon wrote: »

This needs changed NOW. Cause a stam sorc says so!

Sorry can't feel bad for a class that holds down the meta right now.

What meta are you talking about? The zerg ball meta has very little use for stam Sorcs. Also, popularity =/= meta.

Sallington

Xjcon wrote: »

This needs changed NOW. Cause a stam sorc says so!

Sorry can't feel bad for a class that holds down the meta right now.

Stam sorcs are probably the furthest thing from the meta right now.

Joshuagm1991

Can someone explain this root problem? What changed? What skills / skills?

Kelleton

This has been around for 2 years...why is this all of a sudden an urgent issue?

Frawr

CrowsDescend wrote: »

Completely agree. Gap-closers need a look at, because on one hand, I understand that they slightly help keep consistent damage on a target who is moving, but on the other hand, it's abused by classes that can continuously gap-close, without much penalty towards their resource costs, etc.

Jura23 wrote: »

One of the reasons why mist form is such a joke - because half the time you spend gap close rooted.

As presented in this short video, where I use Retreating Maneuvers and Mist Form, yet you'll notice that the group can continuously gap-close me through Mist Form and Retreating Maneuvers. Despite what the tooltips state about CC in general; a gap-closer is a mini-stun, and it ignores CC Immunity, it's still effective (and annoying as ever.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EY-exbyjme0

As this video accurately demonstrates,

@ZOS_GinaBruno
@Wrobel

the mechanic is stupid

I would rather see animations where people charge into thin air because that person is no longer there than this incessant root root root root root.

What is the point of adding CC immunity if you then go and add a mechanic such as this.

this mechanic has a really negative effect on gameplay. It is pointless and unnecessary.

please remove it.

Cathexis

Xjcon wrote: »

This needs changed NOW. Cause a stam sorc says so!

Sorry can't feel bad for a class that holds down the meta right now.

Stam sorc is Def not the meta don't know what world you are in.

It destroys the class play style completely since the IC patch made us 2 hand dependent.

Joshuagm1991 wrote: »

Can someone explain this root problem? What changed? What skills / skills?

Kelleton wrote: »

This has been around for 2 years...why is this all of a sudden an urgent issue?

@Joshuagm1991 @Kelleton This has not been around for 2 years it was very recently implemented. All gap closers are now rooting players for 1 second with an unbreakable root that goes through immunity. It's not really noticeable one on one, but when you get gap closer spammed by multiple people it is basically a permanent root until death.

Wing

Cathexis wrote: »

Being able to root someone down with a gap closer because they have strategies to avoid your attacks completely guts combat dynamics.

um. . .no it doesn't, there should never be "strategies to avoid attacks completely" and having skills and mechanics in game to counter the chicken with their head cut off spaz jumpy speed boosted roll dodgy bolt escape twitch fighters is legitimate.

as I said there are valid criticisms here:
-ambush needs a minimum distance.
-mist form needs a freakin buff.
-and the overall mechanics of gap closing needs to be worked out so it does not require a .5 sec immobilize.

but using a gap closer to counter someone trying to get away / create distance / run and hide / run and heal is a proper use of the skill.

I get why its the immobilize, its so if someone is running around a corner or something and you gap close they don't get around it and you hit a wall, etc. but I don't think this would be a big problem as skills in this game track and connect properly pretty well. gap closers already have pretty fast animations so you don't spend much time covering the distance, and a snare is not the answer.

I think mist form should make you untargetable though, that was a crap change.

Tamanous

Xjcon wrote: »

This needs changed NOW. Cause a stam sorc says so!

Sorry can't feel bad for a class that holds down the meta right now.

The vast majority of threads are complaining about NBs being EVERYWHERE.

Stop making up crap to get a point across. Using the word "meta" is a license for cool either.

Frawr

Wing wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Being able to root someone down with a gap closer because they have strategies to avoid your attacks completely guts combat dynamics.

um. . .no it doesn't, there should never be "strategies to avoid attacks completely" and having skills and mechanics in game to counter the chicken with their head cut off spaz jumpy speed boosted roll dodgy bolt escape twitch fighters is legitimate.

as I said there are valid criticisms here:
-ambush needs a minimum distance.
-mist form needs a freakin buff.
-and the overall mechanics of gap closing needs to be worked out so it does not require a .5 sec immobilize.

but using a gap closer to counter someone trying to get away / create distance / run and hide / run and heal is a proper use of the skill.

I get why its the immobilize, its so if someone is running around a corner or something and you gap close they don't get around it and you hit a wall, etc. but I don't think this would be a big problem as skills in this game track and connect properly pretty well. gap closers already have pretty fast animations so you don't spend much time covering the distance, and a snare is not the answer.

I think mist form should make you untargetable though, that was a crap change.

ZOS agrees that spammable CC is bad. That is why they implemented CC immunity.

A spammable, stackable perma CC mechanic is plain stupid. the problem is not in 1 v 1 but in 10 v 1. The 1 would still have a chance to escape in this game, except they can't any more because of this stupid mechanic.

if i have CC immunity then a gap-closer should not root me. End of story.

this mechanic is up there with AOE caps

Hiero_Glyph

Again, the fix is to have all gap closers target an area where the player is when the ability is cast. The area's radius can be adjusted depending on the gap closer's animation. If the target is still in that area then they take damage. If not, then the gap closer misses but the animation still moves the attacking player. This makes mobility counter gap closers, and CC effects counter mobility. Note that WW's Pounce already works in a similar manner.

FriedEggSandwich

vamp_emily wrote: »

.....

You clearly have no idea of the issue the op is trying to outline with gap closers. Sounds like you never get gap closed, do you even pvp? Or are you always safe inside a zerg? lol

[Moderator Note: Removed moderated quote]

Stamden

What is everyone talking about? I don't see anything in the patch notes.

Bazeric

Cathexis wrote: »

. It's not really noticeable one on one, but when you get gap closer spammed by multiple people it is basically a permanent root until death.

It is really noticeable to me one-on-one when I stop moving for no reason... Well I know the reason and it is a great indicator that I need to block and prepare to counter.

But no mater how much blocking, rolling, shuffle and cleansing I cast if 3 or more people gap close me it is the root until dead situation, especially when you are stranded like a desert island with out any cover to attempt a counter. (I say 3+ because SOMETIMES you can manage 2 if you have a good position and decent los options.)

Just last night I took a screen grab of my recap which was: Enemy 1 Ambush, Enemy 2 Crit Rush, Enemy 3 Crit Rush, Enemy 1 Ambush, Enemy 2 Crit Rush... The most annoying thing this particular time was that the 2nd Ambush interrupted my attempt to put a counter on one the the attackers to buy a half second relief and hope to make it the last 5m to LoS or have a faction member jump in.

I know it sucked when gap closer didn't close when the enemy stepped out of range, but this adjustment isn't very favorable.

Xjcon

Tamanous wrote: »

Xjcon wrote: »

This needs changed NOW. Cause a stam sorc says so!

Sorry can't feel bad for a class that holds down the meta right now.

The vast majority of threads are complaining about NBs being EVERYWHERE.

Stop making up crap to get a point across. Using the word "meta" is a license for cool either.

Really. Go watch what players who don't suck can do with stam Sorc. Or magicka Sorc. Both have serious advantages right now. Stam sorc heals from damage, vigor, and Rally (forgot the morph) not to mention they have increased stam regen other classes don't have. Magicka has non crittable shields for days.

Sorc CLASS is very strong right now.

Besides you won't get mini stunned anymore they already said they are going to change it to a slow.