How did ESO turn out like this?

eNumbra · January 2016

Manoekin wrote: »

A proper build, yes. Stamina issues are not NB issues as I've seen way too many try to say since the game came out. Back when DK's were the best class, NB's actually were better tanks and could do more burst damage - if built properly. The problem was 99% of the nightblades that started ESO wanted to be some super stealth ranger gank master, and that wasn't viable until snipe got a ridiculous buff that made it capable of one-shotting anyone.

"properly" being subjective in this case pointing specifically to, again, pure magicka, light armor and stick builds. There was no diversity.

All those people who wanted a stealthy ganking style of play, wanted exactly what they were expecting from reading everything about the nightblade. Have we had see-sawing issues? Of course. Zenimax released the game broken. Period.

Sallington · January 2016

I don't know how anyone can argue that PvP in general is in better shape now than it was 1-1.5 years ago.

I'm finding it increasingly harder to log in, when the first thing I'm met with is 500+ ping at High Rock.

Master_Kas · January 2016

Manoekin wrote: »

eNumbra wrote: »

Poxheart wrote: »

Yes, I know hyperbole. Hyperbole is what has lead to Nightblades being OP as hell and Dragon Knights being nerfed to hell. That's the toxic attitude you're looking for.

Hardly.

On release NB skills were a mix of Not working, semi working, working with an inaccurate tootip and actually working as described.
DK, the supposed tank class, was the go-to for everything but dedicated healing. A proper DK build could tank while attaining some of, if not the highest DPS available.
But therein still lay the problem. A proper build, was one thing. Light armor, a staff and all your Attribute points dumped into Magicka. Every class, bar none. Anyone who had wanted medium armor and stamina builds were called bad and told to learn to play.

Afterwards Nightblades started getting fixed, not balanced, fixed. Because without everything working the way it should, there's no way to discern actual balance, other than the obvious dominance of the Magicka DK of the time.

But I digress, since Zenimax has such a clear history of listening to their audience, obviously people complaining about balance are toxic; not those insulting others for complaining about class inequality.

We'll just have to both agree that you're wrong.

A proper build, yes. Stamina issues are not NB issues as I've seen way too many try to say since the game came out. Back when DK's were the best class, NB's actually were better tanks and could do more burst damage - if built properly. The problem was 99% of the nightblades that started ESO wanted to be some super stealth ranger gank master, and that wasn't viable until snipe got a ridiculous buff that made it capable of one-shotting anyone.

Who needed snipe when you could go magicka melee and do insane burst damage from stealth? Back when ambush was magicka morph and you got the stealth bonus multiplier from it:

Also you had unblockable soultether which did very nice damage and stun, so good vs all FOTM permablock dks and stacking veils with sap. RIP magicka melee

Darlgon · January 2016

Master_Kas wrote: »

Who needed snipe when you could go magicka melee and do insane burst damage from stealth? Back when ambush was magicka morph and you got the stealth bonus multiplier from it:

Also you had unblockable soultether which did very nice damage and stun, so good vs all FOTM permablock dks and stacking veils with sap. RIP magicka melee

You on Blackwater Blade? 3382 HP is abysmal.

RadioheadSh0t · January 2016

Darlgon wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

Who needed snipe when you could go magicka melee and do insane burst damage from stealth? Back when ambush was magicka morph and you got the stealth bonus multiplier from it:

Also you had unblockable soultether which did very nice damage and stun, so good vs all FOTM permablock dks and stacking veils with sap. RIP magicka melee

You on Blackwater Blade? 3382 HP is abysmal.

That was obviously an old recap before they scaled up the numbers.

Master_Kas · January 2016

Darlgon wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

Who needed snipe when you could go magicka melee and do insane burst damage from stealth? Back when ambush was magicka morph and you got the stealth bonus multiplier from it:

Also you had unblockable soultether which did very nice damage and stun, so good vs all FOTM permablock dks and stacking veils with sap. RIP magicka melee

You on Blackwater Blade? 3382 HP is abysmal.

It's from the golden age of magicka melee nightblade , many patches ago and yes I got rekt ^^
I think 2400 soul harvest equals to 20k dmg in current patch, give or take

Manoekin · January 2016

Master_Kas wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

eNumbra wrote: »

Poxheart wrote: »

Yes, I know hyperbole. Hyperbole is what has lead to Nightblades being OP as hell and Dragon Knights being nerfed to hell. That's the toxic attitude you're looking for.

Hardly.

On release NB skills were a mix of Not working, semi working, working with an inaccurate tootip and actually working as described.
DK, the supposed tank class, was the go-to for everything but dedicated healing. A proper DK build could tank while attaining some of, if not the highest DPS available.
But therein still lay the problem. A proper build, was one thing. Light armor, a staff and all your Attribute points dumped into Magicka. Every class, bar none. Anyone who had wanted medium armor and stamina builds were called bad and told to learn to play.

Afterwards Nightblades started getting fixed, not balanced, fixed. Because without everything working the way it should, there's no way to discern actual balance, other than the obvious dominance of the Magicka DK of the time.

But I digress, since Zenimax has such a clear history of listening to their audience, obviously people complaining about balance are toxic; not those insulting others for complaining about class inequality.

We'll just have to both agree that you're wrong.

A proper build, yes. Stamina issues are not NB issues as I've seen way too many try to say since the game came out. Back when DK's were the best class, NB's actually were better tanks and could do more burst damage - if built properly. The problem was 99% of the nightblades that started ESO wanted to be some super stealth ranger gank master, and that wasn't viable until snipe got a ridiculous buff that made it capable of one-shotting anyone.

Who needed snipe when you could go magicka melee and do insane burst damage from stealth? Back when ambush was magicka morph and you got the stealth bonus multiplier from it:

Also you had unblockable soultether which did very nice damage and stun, so good vs all FOTM permablock dks and stacking veils with sap. RIP magicka melee

Oh trust me I know haha. Played with the OG sap tank @krim #EstoyAqui

Poxheart · January 2016

eNumbra wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

A proper build, yes. Stamina issues are not NB issues as I've seen way too many try to say since the game came out. Back when DK's were the best class, NB's actually were better tanks and could do more burst damage - if built properly. The problem was 99% of the nightblades that started ESO wanted to be some super stealth ranger gank master, and that wasn't viable until snipe got a ridiculous buff that made it capable of one-shotting anyone.

"properly" being subjective in this case pointing specifically to, again, pure magicka, light armor and stick builds. There was no diversity.

All those people who wanted a stealthy ganking style of play, wanted exactly what they were expecting from reading everything about the nightblade. Have we had see-sawing issues? Of course. Zenimax released the game broken. Period.

There was diversity of NB builds back then; it's just that the most vocal NB players weren't happy that their chosen armor/weapon set ups weren't the most effective.

The one thing I will agree with is that the game was released broken.

bosmern_ESO · January 2016

ESO had so much potential, it could easily have been one of the best MMO's on the market. But the devs were careless and dropped the ball.

Lisbette · January 2016

Teargrants wrote: »

Say, do you remember when we used to not get stuck with 20-30 FPS after big fights until we relaunch the game?

When we used to have more than 1 pop locked server in prime time?

When IC used to not be an empty wasteland?

When Cyrodiil pop had not yet been ruined by IC?

When you could still use block and dodge roll without being a sustain stam build?

When GDB used to not be trash?

When Jesus Beam and Whip used to not be dodgable?

When there used to be more than 2 end game jewelry sets?

When detect pots used to last more than 14 secs?

When crafting new gear used to not require a stupid amount of mats?

When Bolt Escape and dodge roll used to not be nerfed with infinite stacking cost increases because the devs can't figure out that infinite resource pools is the actual problem?

When the devs said V14 was the last vet lvl increase?

When IC was promised as the big PvP update we'd all been waiting for?

When everything wrong with the game was because "we're too busy working on console release atm"?

When the solution to Cyrodiil lag was more than "we're decreasing the pop cap for the Nth time"?

When Eric Wrobel said people "melt in Wall of Elements"?

When we used to not have a horribly stam biased CP system?

When resource management used to matter and the meta was more than stack primary stats because of soft caps?

When we used to have dynamic ult gen?

When we used to have ground oils?

When gap closers didn't silence + root you?

When Wrecking Blow used to be interruptible?

When Streak used to be more than free CC immunity?

When heavy attacks used to be interruptible?

When heavy attack resource return used to be better?

When server lag used to be server. lag. and not always turn your screen into Microsoft PowerPoint?

When Meteor fall dmg used to not be a thing?

When we had FCs and open field ganking used to be a thing that wasn't limited to mostly grps of 5+?

When server lag used to end after large fights instead of being a constant 300+ all night?

When hybrid builds used to actually be feasible?

When we used to have no server side lag before 1.2?

When most skills had no AoE cap on launch?

When sorc pets used to be non toggle in beta!?

WHERE IS AYDZ WHEN YOU NEED HIM?!?!

-Tamerlin

Islyn · January 2016

PrinceBoru wrote: »

wow is all i can say.
what a list!
it looks to me as if you need other things in life to worry about.
if i had that many complaints about anything i'd be long gone.
yeah haha the irony and pepperidge farm and all that...
but seriously, i couldn't read all those let alone remember all those.
if you want to lesson your load, ease your weary life, just quit playing.

He asked if you can remember when.....he did not complain, unless it was edited out.

Tomato · January 2016

@AydzPredatorofEP

eNumbra · January 2016

Islyn wrote: »

He asked if you can remember when.....he did not complain, unless it was edited out.

the Pepperidge Farm Remembers meme generally carries the implication that things were "better" or simpler as the originating commercial implies.

Islyn · January 2016

eNumbra wrote: »

Islyn wrote: »

He asked if you can remember when.....he did not complain, unless it was edited out.

the Pepperidge Farm Remembers meme generally carries the implication that things were "better" or simpler as the originating commercial implies.

Oh sorry. Must be An American thing with which I am not familiar.

There. Fixed.

eNumbra · January 2016

Islyn wrote: »

eNumbra wrote: »

Islyn wrote: »

He asked if you can remember when.....he did not complain, unless it was edited out.

the Pepperidge Farm Remembers meme generally carries the implication that things were "better" or simpler as the originating commercial implies.

Oh sorry. Must be a 'murican thing with which I am not familiar.

Actually it's an internet thing, not sure why you've got to get all bigoted about it.

CatchMeTrolling · January 2016

Need to fix the lag. Broken one shot moves. And need to revert unnecessary changes such as not recovering stamina while you block and dodge roll nerf.

JDar · January 2016

I don't understand what the point of this thread was. You already have 5 stars so it's not like you need the agrees or awesomes.

Let us know how BDO is and if you start a guild.

Makkir · January 2016

Huckdabuck wrote: »

Force-Siphon wrote: »

ESO lag is gonna get fixed when CU comes out and the game is a wasteland on pc

I'm in Alpha on CU and Crowfall.....is there anything else out there that I'm unaware of that may be of some interest? I've got SWtoR, GW2, TSW, Skyforge, WildStar, StarCraft, and a few FPS's (Battlefront and COD BO3).

The Repopulation

JDar · January 2016

Huckdabuck wrote: »

Force-Siphon wrote: »

ESO lag is gonna get fixed when CU comes out and the game is a wasteland on pc

I'm in Alpha on CU and Crowfall.....is there anything else out there that I'm unaware of that may be of some interest? I've got SWtoR, GW2, TSW, Skyforge, WildStar, StarCraft, and a few FPS's (Battlefront and COD BO3).

Have you not played Undertale? It's f**** adorable.

Teargrants · January 2016

JDar wrote: »

I don't understand what the point of this thread was. You already have 5 stars so it's not like you need the agrees or awesomes.

Let us know how BDO is and if you start a guild.

I sorta kinda outlined that on the previous page.

Teargrants wrote: »

The ultimate point of 'complaint' threads like this is to inform ppl, and hopefully the devs, about what poorly thought out and stupid changes have harmed their game or if nothing else, at least serve as a testament to the potential that this game had.

As far as BDO, I hold no illusions about what that game will turn out to be like.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIuiqGOsIDA

WRX · January 2016

Teargrants wrote: »

JDar wrote: »

I don't understand what the point of this thread was. You already have 5 stars so it's not like you need the agrees or awesomes.

Let us know how BDO is and if you start a guild.

I sorta kinda outlined that on the previous page.

Teargrants wrote: »

The ultimate point of 'complaint' threads like this is to inform ppl, and hopefully the devs, about what poorly thought out and stupid changes have harmed their game or if nothing else, at least serve as a testament to the potential that this game had.

As far as BDO, I hold no illusions about what that game will turn out to be like.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIuiqGOsIDA

Not gunna lie.

Reminds me of teargrants before streak nerf lol..

Farorin · January 2016

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Do you remember when people used to rant and QQ and complain less ?

(No you can't, it never happened ;-) )

The crying wasn't as bad as this earlier on in the game. At this point, the majority of threads seem like they are written by angry snot nosed little kids who only think a game is fair if they are winning. I remember early on, people didn't ask for nerfs as much, and even if they were to ask for a rebalance of a system or skill, it always seemed to be better thought out and phrased far more politely, and with less inflammatory content.

This was all before they dropped the subscription model though. After the subs went, the toxicity came in.

Huckdabuck · January 2016

Farorin wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Do you remember when people used to rant and QQ and complain less ?

(No you can't, it never happened ;-) )

The crying wasn't as bad as this earlier on in the game. At this point, the majority of threads seem like they are written by angry snot nosed little kids who only think a game is fair if they are winning. I remember early on, people didn't ask for nerfs as much, and even if they were to ask for a rebalance of a system or skill, it always seemed to be better thought out and phrased far more politely, and with less inflammatory content.

This was all before they dropped the subscription model though. After the subs went, the toxicity came in.

You may not remember this but......the QQ'in and nerf threads pretty much became a thing in April 2014. It's pretty easy to see.....just go to any of the PvP subforums and go all the way back to the latest threads and you'll see the QQ over impulse, sorcs blinking, and OP DK's pretty much as soon as people started to get into Cyrodiil. The toxicity has been here since Beta since this game has been borked since Beta it's just that you're not really seeing the white knights coming out in force anymore as they once did as it would appear they to are getting fed up with this pile.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/73160/lets-be-real-pulsar-is-overpowered#latest

tinythinker · January 2016

Teargrants wrote: »

Say, do you remember when we used to not get stuck with 20-30 FPS after big fights until we relaunch the game?

I would take 20-30FPS...

Islyn · January 2016

eNumbra wrote: »

Islyn wrote: »

eNumbra wrote: »

Islyn wrote: »

He asked if you can remember when.....he did not complain, unless it was edited out.

the Pepperidge Farm Remembers meme generally carries the implication that things were "better" or simpler as the originating commercial implies.

Oh sorry. Must be an American thing with which I am not familiar.

Actually it's an internet thing, not sure why you've got to get all bigoted about it.

Okay well I have no idea what a pepperidge farm is. Scuse me. ('murican OTOH IS a Worldwide internet thing and a joke not a jab lol)

There - lest I come across as BIGOTED (seriously? lol People here find like every little thing to be offended, why?)

Rylana · January 2016

Pepperidge Farm makes cookies and Goldfish crackers. Whatever its internet meme thing (looks like its from family guy), i dunno nor do I care, but thats what they make.

Minno · January 2016

Rylana wrote: »

Pepperidge Farm makes cookies and Goldfish crackers. Whatever its internet meme thing (looks like its from family guy), i dunno nor do I care, but thats what they make.

Milano cookies. The ones with chocolate mint filling are amazing.

Emma_Overload · January 2016

I don't think the game is nearly as messed up as the OP suggest, BUT....

ESO has some fundamental flaws that have proven nearly impossible for the devs to fix. The worst of these is the ill-conceived divide between Magicka and Stamina abilities, especially the ones that do damage. They've never been able to balance Magicka and Stamina builds, and they've also never been able to make hybrid builds viable. This is a huge blow to the expectations of new players who would like to mix and match abilities in order to "play as they want".

Honestly, I don't know if the devs CAN fix the Magicka/Stamina issues, they're so deeply entrenched in the game!

OdinForge · January 2016

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

I don't think the game is nearly as messed up as the OP suggest, BUT....

ESO has some fundamental flaws that have proven nearly impossible for the devs to fix. The worst of these is the ill-conceived divide between Magicka and Stamina abilities, especially the ones that do damage. They've never been able to balance Magicka and Stamina builds, and they've also never been able to make hybrid builds viable. This is a huge blow to the expectations of new players who would like to mix and match abilities in order to "play as they want".

Honestly, I don't know if the devs CAN fix the Magicka/Stamina issues, they're so deeply entrenched in the game!

I don't think the game is nearly as messed up as the OP suggest, BUT....

Honestly, I don't know if the devs CAN fix the Magicka/Stamina issues, they're so deeply entrenched in the game!

Farorin · January 2016

Huckdabuck wrote: »

Farorin wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Do you remember when people used to rant and QQ and complain less ?

(No you can't, it never happened ;-) )

The crying wasn't as bad as this earlier on in the game. At this point, the majority of threads seem like they are written by angry snot nosed little kids who only think a game is fair if they are winning. I remember early on, people didn't ask for nerfs as much, and even if they were to ask for a rebalance of a system or skill, it always seemed to be better thought out and phrased far more politely, and with less inflammatory content.

This was all before they dropped the subscription model though. After the subs went, the toxicity came in.

You may not remember this but......the QQ'in and nerf threads pretty much became a thing in April 2014. It's pretty easy to see.....just go to any of the PvP subforums and go all the way back to the latest threads and you'll see the QQ over impulse, sorcs blinking, and OP DK's pretty much as soon as people started to get into Cyrodiil. The toxicity has been here since Beta since this game has been borked since Beta it's just that you're not really seeing the white knights coming out in force anymore as they once did as it would appear they to are getting fed up with this pile.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/73160/lets-be-real-pulsar-is-overpowered#latest

Not saying it wasn't there. I am simply saying it wasn't as bad, and it was balanced out with more good.

Also, a lot of the threads from back then asking for nerfs were because a skill was legitimately broken or OP, not just because it was a slightly stronger or useful skill like now.

Regardless, I distinctly remember always thinking to myself how nice, helpful, supportive, friendly etc. the playerbase was and how surprising that was for an online game, then subs dropped and it was like "Ohhhh.... Okay, there it is."