How did ESO turn out like this?

Teargrants · January 2016

Farorin wrote: »

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Huckdabuck wrote: »

Farorin wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Do you remember when people used to rant and QQ and complain less ?

(No you can't, it never happened ;-) )

The crying wasn't as bad as this earlier on in the game. At this point, the majority of threads seem like they are written by angry snot nosed little kids who only think a game is fair if they are winning. I remember early on, people didn't ask for nerfs as much, and even if they were to ask for a rebalance of a system or skill, it always seemed to be better thought out and phrased far more politely, and with less inflammatory content.

This was all before they dropped the subscription model though. After the subs went, the toxicity came in.

You may not remember this but......the QQ'in and nerf threads pretty much became a thing in April 2014. It's pretty easy to see.....just go to any of the PvP subforums and go all the way back to the latest threads and you'll see the QQ over impulse, sorcs blinking, and OP DK's pretty much as soon as people started to get into Cyrodiil. The toxicity has been here since Beta since this game has been borked since Beta it's just that you're not really seeing the white knights coming out in force anymore as they once did as it would appear they to are getting fed up with this pile.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/73160/lets-be-real-pulsar-is-overpowered#latest

Not saying it wasn't there. I am simply saying it wasn't as bad, and it was balanced out with more good.

Also, a lot of the threads from back then asking for nerfs were because a skill was legitimately broken or OP, not just because it was a slightly stronger or useful skill like now.

Regardless, I distinctly remember always thinking to myself how nice, helpful, supportive, friendly etc. the playerbase was and how surprising that was for an online game, then subs dropped and it was like "Ohhhh.... Okay, there it is."

I too remember a time before Tex. A time when people were helpful and polite, when the days were brighter and full of merriment.

Alas.

Teargrants · January 2016

Also

frozywozy wrote: »

Remember when fear used to make you fall through the world?

Mhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Poxheart · January 2016

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

I don't think the game is nearly as messed up as the OP suggest, BUT....

ESO has some fundamental flaws that have proven nearly impossible for the devs to fix. The worst of these is the ill-conceived divide between Magicka and Stamina abilities, especially the ones that do damage. They've never been able to balance Magicka and Stamina builds, and they've also never been able to make hybrid builds viable. This is a huge blow to the expectations of new players who would like to mix and match abilities in order to "play as they want".

Honestly, I don't know if the devs CAN fix the Magicka/Stamina issues, they're so deeply entrenched in the game!

Hybrid builds were viable before softcaps were lifted and health was a higher ratio than it is now (1.5:1 if I remember correctly). In fact, both my NB and my DK were hybrids back then.

My NB was more magicka than stam, but wore a mix of light and medium armor & the primary attack bar used dual wield (using a set that is completely non-viable now). My DK was more stam than magicka and wore full heavy & used wrecking blow back when it could be interrupted. I had no problem doing well with either of those builds and they were a lot of fun to play. Certainly better than the stack 1 attribute & maximize spellpower/weapon damage builds these days.

Xsorus · January 2016

I was a stamina build back during soft caps on my dk and I actually used damaging abilities like flame lash and unstable flames for example even when they were magicka cause the difference was very minor. Hybrid builds were very viable back in the day.

Didgerion · January 2016

Teargrants wrote: »

Say, do you remember when we used to not get stuck with 20-30 FPS after big fights until we relaunch the game?

When we used to have more than 1 pop locked server in prime time?

When IC used to not be an empty wasteland?

When Cyrodiil pop had not yet been ruined by IC?

When you could still use block and dodge roll without being a sustain stam build?

When GDB used to not be trash?

When Jesus Beam and Whip used to not be dodgable?

When there used to be more than 2 end game jewelry sets?

When detect pots used to last more than 14 secs?

When crafting new gear used to not require a stupid amount of mats?

When Bolt Escape and dodge roll used to not be nerfed with infinite stacking cost increases because the devs can't figure out that infinite resource pools is the actual problem?

When the devs said V14 was the last vet lvl increase?

When IC was promised as the big PvP update we'd all been waiting for?

When everything wrong with the game was because "we're too busy working on console release atm"?

When the solution to Cyrodiil lag was more than "we're decreasing the pop cap for the Nth time"?

When Eric Wrobel said people "melt in Wall of Elements"?

When we used to not have a horribly stam biased CP system?

When resource management used to matter and the meta was more than stack primary stats because of soft caps?

When we used to have dynamic ult gen?

When we used to have ground oils?

When gap closers didn't silence + root you?

When Wrecking Blow used to be interruptible?

When Streak used to be more than free CC immunity?

When heavy attacks used to be interruptible?

When heavy attack resource return used to be better?

When server lag used to be server. lag. and not always turn your screen into Microsoft PowerPoint?

When Meteor fall dmg used to not be a thing?

When we had FCs and open field ganking used to be a thing that wasn't limited to mostly grps of 5+?

When server lag used to end after large fights instead of being a constant 300+ all night?

When hybrid builds used to actually be feasible?

When we used to have no server side lag before 1.2?

When most skills had no AoE cap on launch?

When sorc pets used to be non toggle in beta!?

Yes I remember all of them. And glad that most of them are gone now.

But there are few of them that i want to see them back too or fixed.

tinythinker · January 2016

avid_mdb16_ESO wrote: »

But there are few of them that i want to see them back too or fixed.

Yeah, like having magicka DKs who could turn into living gods, burning through all who opposed them with eternal fire. Or maybe I am remembering that part wrong? It's been a while...

Emma_Overload · January 2016

OdinForge wrote: »

show previous quotes

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

I don't think the game is nearly as messed up as the OP suggest, BUT....

ESO has some fundamental flaws that have proven nearly impossible for the devs to fix. The worst of these is the ill-conceived divide between Magicka and Stamina abilities, especially the ones that do damage. They've never been able to balance Magicka and Stamina builds, and they've also never been able to make hybrid builds viable. This is a huge blow to the expectations of new players who would like to mix and match abilities in order to "play as they want".

Honestly, I don't know if the devs CAN fix the Magicka/Stamina issues, they're so deeply entrenched in the game!

show previous quotes

I don't think the game is nearly as messed up as the OP suggest, BUT....

show previous quotes

Honestly, I don't know if the devs CAN fix the Magicka/Stamina issues, they're so deeply entrenched in the game!

Not sure I get your point. The OP has a much longer list of gripes!

driosketch · January 2016

Say, do you remember when we used to not get stuck with 20-30 FPS after big fights until we relaunch the game? I don't think I've had this issue.

When we used to have more than 1 pop locked server in prime time? Even with 10 campaigns, it was still usually only AB and Wabba that were locked. Higher pop cap, okay. More spread out campaigns, eh if you want to count PvE buff campaigns.

When IC used to not be an empty wasteland?

When Cyrodiil pop had not yet been ruined by IC?
So which is it?

When you could still use block and dodge roll without being a sustain stam build? Yes

When GDB used to not be trash? Not as good as it was before, but I wouldn't call it trash. Frankly, it was kind of over the top..

When Jesus Beam and Whip used to not be dodgable? These were not good mechanics, and RD being a channel execute is a whole nother discussion.

When there used to be more than 2 end game jewelry sets? I remember warlock. What else was there?

When detect pots used to last more than 14 secs? Yes, and and the change pretty much just gave IC to the NBs.

When crafting new gear used to not require a stupid amount of mats? Yes

When Bolt Escape and dodge roll used to not be nerfed with infinite stacking cost increases because the devs can't figure out that infinite resource pools is the actual problem? They've nerfed BE several times now, but true.

When the devs said V14 was the last vet lvl increase? Not really, sorry.

When IC was promised as the big PvP update we'd all been waiting for? Yes

When everything wrong with the game was because "we're too busy working on console release atm"? Yep

When the solution to Cyrodiil lag was more than "we're decreasing the pop cap for the Nth time"? There were other solutions?

When Eric Wrobel said people "melt in Wall of Elements"? Him saying it no, but I remember it was doing a lot more damage.

When we used to not have a horribly stam biased CP system? I remember when all class skills were magic based and stam builds sucked

When resource management used to matter and the meta was more than stack primary stats because of soft caps? Yes

When we used to have dynamic ult gen? Which I found problematic.

When we used to have ground oils? Same here

When gap closers didn't silence + root you? Root has been there for a while. I see the issue today happens more when multiple people gap close you.

When Wrecking Blow used to be interruptible? Kind of

When Streak used to be more than free CC immunity? Yes, but also found it pretty cheesy

When heavy attacks used to be interruptible? Vaguely

When heavy attack resource return used to be better? I remember when only restro staffs had this perk.

When server lag used to be server. lag. and not always turn your screen into Microsoft PowerPoint? Well not always, I have seen low FPS with lag since beta.

When Meteor fall dmg used to not be a thing? I remember when meteor wasn't in wide use. Worse part is it came into wide use amid rumors it was a major source of lag.

When we had FCs and open field ganking used to be a thing that wasn't limited to mostly grps of 5+? At the time, open field ganking was nothing but a free port to the FC.

When server lag used to end after large fights instead of being a constant 300+ all night? Yes

When hybrid builds used to actually be feasible? Yes

When we used to have no server side lag before 1.2? I honestly don't remember when it started exactly. I suspect neither do most players, but 1.2 get repeated enough that this is accepted without question.

When most skills had no AoE cap on launch? You can't be 100% sure of this. I remember when it was first discovered, by players who were dedicated testers. And then someone posted a video showing caps were already on live. Somehow they were snuck past even the vigilant. I suspect they didn't exist pre1.0, but were quietly added at or near launch. If I recall correctly, it was found while the PTS was still closed to non Psijic testers.

When sorc pets used to be non toggle in beta!? I remember the opposite actually, how far back was this in beta?

Teargrants · January 2016

@driosketch at work on my phone so no to quote everything, but some brief replies.

The thing about stam builds sucking wasn't what I was taking about, I'm taking about just pre 1.6, pre champion system. 1.4 and 1.5 had already begun buffing stam builds and all that Wrobel needed to do was continue in the same vein progressively until mag and stam were balanced. What the CP system did instead was introduce a bunch of perks that were heavily stam biased + nirnhoned.

Wrobel specifically said on an ESO live after the change that stopped WoE from stacking & fixed the purge bug that WoE was still good and people would "melt in Wall of Elements". Someone with more time than me can find the clip for you. There's been a lot of jokes about it, someone even made a clip showing WoE unable to overcome their health regen.

The root on gap closers has been there for a while yes, but it wasn't for the first 6 months of the game, and honestly, compared to how Wrobel has chosen to 'fix' it, I would rather have gap closers occasionally failing on targets at max range than acting as a means for ppl to lock down others with 1 button spam.

As far as 1.2 and lag, it's not anything to do with rose tinted goggles, lag before 1.2 was very minimal compared to after 1.2 was fixed. 1.2 added the anti bot system which moved many previous client side calculations to server side for security. The devs, Brian iirc, have stated specifically in the past that these calculations are responsible for a lot of the lag.

AOE caps did exist on launch but not on ALL skills, there were still many that did not have AoE caps. Gravity Crush on Nova for instance.

The original conception for sorc pets was a non toggle, it was changed to toggle in one of the beta iterations for 'balance reasons'.

Xeven · January 2016

Remember when you worked your ass off for that 2% former emperor buff?

SP38KER · January 2016

Hmm, I've been playing on console since June. Maybe I don't know any better, but I've really enjoyed the game. One thing I didn't like was the nerf to stamina because it's made tanking dungeons hell. Also, the 3-4 DC's a night at peak times gets old.

Jahosefat · January 2016

Teargrants wrote: »

@driosketch at work on my phone so no to quote everything, but some brief replies.

The thing about stam builds sucking wasn't what I was taking about, I'm taking about just pre 1.6, pre champion system. 1.4 and 1.5 had already begun buffing stam builds and all that Wrobel needed to do was continue in the same vein progressively until mag and stam were balanced. What the CP system did instead was introduce a bunch of perks that were heavily stam biased + nirnhoned.

Wrobel specifically said on an ESO live after the change that stopped WoE from stacking & fixed the purge bug that WoE was still good and people would "melt in Wall of Elements". Someone with more time than me can find the clip for you. There's been a lot of jokes about it, someone even made a clip showing WoE unable to overcome their health regen.

The root on gap closers has been there for a while yes, but it wasn't for the first 6 months of the game, and honestly, compared to how Wrobel has chosen to 'fix' it, I would rather have gap closers occasionally failing on targets at max range than acting as a means for ppl to lock down others with 1 button spam.

As far as 1.2 and lag, it's not anything to do with rose tinted goggles, lag before 1.2 was very minimal compared to after 1.2 was fixed. 1.2 added the anti bot system which moved many previous client side calculations to server side for security. The devs, Brian iirc, have stated specifically in the past that these calculations are responsible for a lot of the lag.

AOE caps did exist on launch but not on ALL skills, there were still many that did not have AoE caps. Gravity Crush on Nova for instance.

The original conception for sorc pets was a non toggle, it was changed to toggle in one of the beta iterations for 'balance reasons'.

You're like one of those academic historians these days, man. (Said to myself in the Dude's voice).

gw2only1b14_ESO · January 2016

In retro spec seems all the changes "tweaks" (Nerfs) of course where do to the QQ from the pvp crowed so what did everyone expect?
But pve kicks around and most of the tears are coming due to players trying to figure out Malestorm and getting it nerfed so they can finish it and be Uber.

I see the circle of life

BuggeX · January 2016

davey1107 wrote: »

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shift of resources to console release.

The consoles keep ESO in business. Every second you spend playing is because of console revenues. Only 14% of the business comes from PC. Just be glad they have it on PC at all, which is probably a dying platform for RPGs.

krim · January 2016

Farorin wrote: »

show previous quotes

Huckdabuck wrote: »

Farorin wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Do you remember when people used to rant and QQ and complain less ?

(No you can't, it never happened ;-) )

The crying wasn't as bad as this earlier on in the game. At this point, the majority of threads seem like they are written by angry snot nosed little kids who only think a game is fair if they are winning. I remember early on, people didn't ask for nerfs as much, and even if they were to ask for a rebalance of a system or skill, it always seemed to be better thought out and phrased far more politely, and with less inflammatory content.

This was all before they dropped the subscription model though. After the subs went, the toxicity came in.

You may not remember this but......the QQ'in and nerf threads pretty much became a thing in April 2014. It's pretty easy to see.....just go to any of the PvP subforums and go all the way back to the latest threads and you'll see the QQ over impulse, sorcs blinking, and OP DK's pretty much as soon as people started to get into Cyrodiil. The toxicity has been here since Beta since this game has been borked since Beta it's just that you're not really seeing the white knights coming out in force anymore as they once did as it would appear they to are getting fed up with this pile.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/73160/lets-be-real-pulsar-is-overpowered#latest

Not saying it wasn't there. I am simply saying it wasn't as bad, and it was balanced out with more good.

Also, a lot of the threads from back then asking for nerfs were because a skill was legitimately broken or OP, not just because it was a slightly stronger or useful skill like now.

Regardless, I distinctly remember always thinking to myself how nice, helpful, supportive, friendly etc. the playerbase was and how surprising that was for an online game, then subs dropped and it was like "Ohhhh.... Okay, there it is."

Wrong, the difference between now and then is people actually somewhat know whats going on now after so much time. People complained and cried because they had no idea how to use their brain to put it simply and this games lack of information all around intensified that. You also have ignorant people who want to play their way and feel equal to everyone else not knowing that in any form of competition to win you have to exploit weaknesses and use what ever works within the game at any point in time.

How else can you explain Special Mist Forces, How else can you explain a NB not a DK charging into 30 people and not dieing. Nothing in the game at that time didnt have a counter that i could think of. The only thing that i ever considered OP was the ultimate cost reduction of stage 4 vampire that allowed infinite bat swarm and stacking of bats.

krim · January 2016

I guess that im the only NB that never complained or felt like i was underpowerd, useless, or bugged. I never had an alt either its always been my NB.

I'm not a good video maker my taste in music is horrible but i have a single target video from when the game first launched and i was having fun. Compared to my build later on and it doesnt really compare but hey to me NB always been good at any role except healing even then any class can sit there and spam healing springs.

Looking back this build was terrible in a gear sense and not whats skills i chose to use. I still made it work and i was able to solo climb my way to rank 1. At 5:35 i fight a templar where it seems my cloak is bugged. But in actuality his animation for mage light is bugged which causes my cloak to feel bugged. This is something that i think fueled a lot of the misinfo about cloak not working. Plus detect pots not having an animation, this goes on with my previous post about people not 100% knowing whats going on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Rbg8Dn_0zs

themdogesbite · January 2016

delete

Lil_Willie · January 2016

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

i do not agree with what you say here in your thread.
all i see is alot of your own personal opinions mixed in with twisted views of how abilities work.

Stfu