Nerf WB if not, the game will slowly die. :(

Solanum · December 2015

I don't think wrecking blow is the issue.
A melee skill where the opponent needs to stand in front of the caster, with a channeled cast time during which the caster is slowed and unable to block.

I believe they need to return to their basic concept, or completely rework the way combat currently works.

The_SpAwN · December 2015

Sigh.....another day, another "ZoS plox, Nerf dis, Nerf dat!" thread.
What about pressing zos to fix the broken cc immunity of WB (broken since IC launch) instead of asking for a nerf?

Catblade · December 2015

I'm just gonna come out and say it if you die to WB spam you're BAD. You're SOOOOO bad. I can't believe how bad you are.

It's alright I was bad once too. Now i'm mediocre it's a journey

robkrush · December 2015

Who is using WB? Stam DK. Stam sorc. Stam temp. Maybe nightblade if they are bad. The point is, it's the sneaky nightblades (who dont use WB) and the mag sorcs that EVERYONE are saying need nerfed. So why are we all of a sudden pissy about wrecking blow. Bottom line, if your getting killed by WB you are bad at this game. Seriously.

Btw, i don't think any damaging attack needs nerfed. Maybe there are some sorcs exploiting shield stacks and MAYBE that should be addressed but not crystal frags, and not WB.

Im a stam DK. I use WB in my rotation but I almost never get hit with it and I don't see that many people using it anyway.

kylewwefan · December 2015

I just recently found out how to bash. It stops wrecking blow. Pretty much any ability skill or spell someone is getting ready to use. It also works on bosses. Very useful. If there's any major thing I think the game needs it's a better tutorial to show you how to do all these maneuvers and counters and how to play them better.

Cously · December 2015

Did you try wrecking a moving target, especially a cunning pvper with better ping than you? If you don't know why I ask this then...Skill hits for massive damage, has massive pvp relative time of casting? Check. Nothing wrong. L2P.

vamp_emily · December 2015

You know what hurts?

Getting hit by WB followed by a Dragon Leap.

Ouch.

robkrush · December 2015

vamp_emily wrote: »

You know what hurts?

Getting hit by WB followed by a Dragon Leap.

Ouch.

Lets hope so. Dragon leap is an ulti so it should lunch the enemy. Nice little combo, not spammable, no issue.

Skiserony · December 2015

Only issue I see with WB is that when you're in a fight against several enemy players when some of them do nothing but spamming WB.

But there are ways to easily counter this skill. Relying on WB in an outnumbered situation is hard to accomplish too. Some classes need this skill for burst also, wouldn't realy be fair if you take this away. NB's and Sorcs would get even more the upperhand.

Sharee · December 2015

[nevermind]

Wreuntzylla · December 2015

Typhoios wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

Just leave the game, you won't be missed.

"loads of player will leave if wrecking blow is not nerfed" what a pile of bullcrap. Players leave because PvP is in a horrible state performance wise. Not because of one cheesy skill.

The constant cry for nerfs is what has ruined classes and many skills. It's time to stop the nerf crap and start buffing stuff again.

Can someone PLEASE TELL ME what the difference between nerfing your stuff and buffing the other guy's stuff is?

Does it make you feel better if the guy wrecking you is doing it because of a buff instead of a nerf???

Buffing the other guys stuff doesn't make my stuff worse. And buffing things leads to more viable options instead of less.

What??? Buffing the other guy absolutely makes your stuff worse. And buffing does not lead to more viable options.

X class has super cannon that one shots people. Devs buff Y class to have reflect. Your stuff is now useless and you have much fewer options in dealing damage.

You can spin it any way you want, but nerfing is the same as buffing. The only difference is that you might only have to nerf one class, whereas you might have to buff 3 classes...

Wollust · December 2015

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Typhoios wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

Just leave the game, you won't be missed.

"loads of player will leave if wrecking blow is not nerfed" what a pile of bullcrap. Players leave because PvP is in a horrible state performance wise. Not because of one cheesy skill.

The constant cry for nerfs is what has ruined classes and many skills. It's time to stop the nerf crap and start buffing stuff again.

Can someone PLEASE TELL ME what the difference between nerfing your stuff and buffing the other guy's stuff is?

Does it make you feel better if the guy wrecking you is doing it because of a buff instead of a nerf???

Buffing the other guys stuff doesn't make my stuff worse. And buffing things leads to more viable options instead of less.

What??? Buffing the other guy absolutely makes your stuff worse. And buffing does not lead to more viable options.

X class has super cannon that one shots people. Devs buff Y class to have reflect. Your stuff is now useless and you have much fewer options in dealing damage.

You can spin it any way you want, but nerfing is the same as buffing. The only difference is that you might only have to nerf one class, whereas you might have to buff 3 classes...

Buffing does not make your stuff worse. It brings the buffed skills in line with others, this leads then to more viable options. Whereas nerfing just ruins more and more skills and variety. What you describe is bringing in counter methods to strong things (like shieldbreaker) which is a completely different topic.
Sure, short term a few nerfs won't matter. But if you always think "let's nerf, less work", it will ruin more or less everything in the long term. Look at the (magicka) DK. Nerf nerf nerf nerf and more nerf. Complete and utter garbage nowadays.

I'm not saying only buffing is the solution. It has to be a healthy mixture of both. But what we currently have is pure nerfing culture, leading to the destruction of so many skills and leaving players with only a few things left. And then they cry because the stuff that is left seems stupidly op.

DannyLV702 · December 2015

vamp_emily wrote: »

You know what hurts?

Getting hit by WB followed by a Dragon Leap.

Ouch.

I hate it when this happens sooooo bad hahaha. My hardened Ward stands no chance

Nifty2g · December 2015

OP has a point, the wrecking blow animation cancel is a problem. i want to animation cancel an 11k spam ability

Stamden · December 2015

Meh, whatever. WB is something that Templars and DKs can use to try to close huge gap in balance to Sorcs and NBs.

WB is really only a pub-stomp skill anyway. It's like Annie in LoL, or Marth in SSBM, etc. At high level PvP where people are good, WB is a joke.

MrGigglypants · December 2015

catalyst10e wrote: »

I was in cyrodiil last night, both above ground in az star, and in the sewers in SoC, I encountered maybe 5 people really just spamming WB, it's not that big of an issue. when it happens, yeah its annoying, but every class has means to counter it. Theres plenty of other things that need to be looked at before WB.

I say keep WB, but if it gets to empower itself, and Dark flare empowers itself, Crystal frag should proc itself. and then give a similar buff to steel tornado, and buff the magicka DK cuz they just need an all around overhaul. Stop with the nerf, and lets see some buff!!

BUFF crystal frags haha way a joke.

Junkogen · December 2015

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Helgi_Skotina wrote: »

If WB will be nerfrd - another damaginh skill will be spammed instead. There is no reason to have 2 damaging skills on a bar.

Its funny to observe what kind of players vouch for wb. Thing is, there is no other skill offering that much benefits atm for such a low risk. That`s why 90% of stam people are using it.

That alone should be reason enough for anyone genuinely interested in balance and engaging gameplay to reconsider her/his stance on a skill that makes or breaks an entire playstyle (stamina).

There is alternatives already, but those take around additonal (!) 4 clicks more a second to execute, which is, on paper and in real world far more difficult to execute in a flawless manner during the entirety of a fight. Of course, (i would like to be mean here, but i won`t) "players" will choose the most easy route. Shouldn`t we BALANCE options also in difficulty of execution vs difficulty of executing a counter? I know, thats some heavy stuff for some of you, but something doesn`t have to be op to not be balanced.

WB was fantastic & skillful to use - when it was bashable.

No its just cheesy and too good for its cost & risk. No matter how well one is able to handle it on both sides.

Love.

Name the alternatives, please.

kevlarto_ESO · December 2015

Wreaking blow is only overpowered because of animation cancelling if they could adjust or remove animation cancelling it would no longer be overpowered along with a few other skills it would also put an end to feeling like you were hit once and then on your death recap there were five skills in about 1.5 seconds

MrDerrikk · December 2015

kevlarto_ESO wrote: »

Wreaking blow is only overpowered because of animation cancelling if they could adjust or remove animation cancelling it would no longer be overpowered along with a few other skills it would also put an end to feeling like you were hit once and then on your death recap there were five skills in about 1.5 seconds

You do knwo that there's still like a 1.2 sec proper cooldown on WB before you can AC the rest off? I'm sick of people spreading the rumor that you can do "five skills in 1 sec" because it's just not possible. There's a short global cooldown on every skill in the game, all AC does is shorten the end animation. The instances of people insta-dying to a few skills are either:
-Lag
-The bugged Camo Hunter-proc
-They're lying

You can weave in a heavy/medium attack, but then it's only 2 at once. Still not OP, as it takes skill and everyone has access.

skillastat · December 2015

I think Wrecking Blow is fine and I don't even use it.

I'm a Two-Hander Stam NB with surprise attack instead.

I most definitely agree that if there would be alternatives for Stam Sorcs and Stam DKs, maybe they would not spam WB so frequently.

Lysette · December 2015

As a side-node, I bet, there are more PvE players than PvP in this game and for them an imbalance is not a big deal at all. So this game is not gong to die anytime soon. On the other side, something is not OP just because it is better than something else - it is OP when there is no way to counter and detect it early enough - for example an unavoidable ambush which can kill anyone in 1-shot is OP - but it is not unavoidable, when the ambusher cannot be detected beforehand, as long as he is not invulnerable in stealth - as long as he could be hit with an area ability, he is not unavoidable and therefore it is not OP. It might be hard to counter it, but it is possible and that makes the whole thing not OP - just get out of your mind, that all needs to have equal chances and equal strengths - if this would be true, we would not need different abilities and different weapons.

blabafat · December 2015

I've said it before; I'll say it again.

Don't nerf Wrecking Blow. Fix the double CC, unbreakable CC, stun w/o animation, and range(you can hit people 20m away sometimes).

mtwiggz · December 2015

Walking through a WB spammer is most definitely the best counter...

Unfortunately, I cannot tell you how many times I've made it successfully behind said person using WB then next thing I know I'm back in front of them 10 feet in the air while he's que'ing up another WB.

Granted this doesn't happen all the time, but with the current server meta it happens far too often.

Enough with the nerfs! Buff server performance!

Sneaky-Snurr · December 2015

@blabafat
The question is, why is WB uninterruptible? I have absolutely zero beef with WB's dmg output or its knockback whatsoever. The problem is, all weapon/class abilities with cast and channel time are interruptible but apparently WB is an exception to that. Why the inconsistency @ZOS? I need your reason for this. If WB isn't interruptible, then make ALL abilities with cast and channel time become uninterruptible as well. Keyword of the day: Consistency.

Yes I've done the few things people suggested on dealing with WB and have successfully done so but like @mtwiggz said, it's just a matter of milliseconds until we realise that we're knocked up in the air yet again.

Don't get me wrong, I'm against nerfing any abilities. Period. I just want the reasoning behind the uninterruptible nature of WB and if @ZOS admits it was a mistake and fixed it, then good. If not, make ALL abilities with cast and channel time become uninterruptible. It's a win-win situation no?

TiberX · December 2015

As many said it before, since WB issue exists, the main problem is that CC immunity does not work! After the first hit u should gain CC immunity for 5 seconds as on other skills.
It's just this broken mechanic makes WB unfair and OP. A good WB spammer keeps it up in such a manner that u cant break free.

OtarTheMad · December 2015

Another nerf WB thread?

Disappointed-Terrible-Awful-OMG-Embarassed-Embarassing-WTF-GIF.gif?gs=a

Fix the CC immunity, don't nerf it.

Barlthump · December 2015

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Helgi_Skotina wrote: »

If WB will be nerfrd - another damaginh skill will be spammed instead. There is no reason to have 2 damaging skills on a bar.

Its funny to observe what kind of players vouch for wb. Thing is, there is no other skill offering that much benefits atm for such a low risk. That`s why 90% of stam people are using it.

That alone should be reason enough for anyone genuinely interested in balance and engaging gameplay to reconsider her/his stance on a skill that makes or breaks an entire playstyle (stamina).

There is alternatives already, but those take around additonal (!) 4 clicks more a second to execute, which is, on paper and in real world far more difficult to execute in a flawless manner during the entirety of a fight. Of course, (i would like to be mean here, but i won`t) "players" will choose the most easy route. Shouldn`t we BALANCE options also in difficulty of execution vs difficulty of executing a counter? I know, thats some heavy stuff for some of you, but something doesn`t have to be op to not be balanced.

WB was fantastic & skillful to use - when it was bashable.

No its just cheesy and too good for its cost & risk. No matter how well one is able to handle it on both sides.

Love.

Damn 100% of the Sorcs I know use crystal frags.

That alone should be reason enough for anyone genuinely interested in balance and engaging gameplay to reconsider her/his stance on a skill that makes or breaks an entire playstyle (sorceror)

Damn 100% of the people who put points into bastion use healing ward.

That alone should be reason enough for anyone genuinely interested in balance and engaging gameplay to reconsider her/his stance on a skill that makes or breaks an entire playstyle (shields)

Damn 100% of the Templars use jabs

That alone should be reason enough for anyone genuinely interested in balance and engaging gameplay to reconsider her/his stance on a skill that makes or breaks an entire playstyle (templar)

Wollust · December 2015

kevlarto_ESO wrote: »

Wreaking blow is only overpowered because of animation cancelling if they could adjust or remove animation cancelling it would no longer be overpowered along with a few other skills it would also put an end to feeling like you were hit once and then on your death recap there were five skills in about 1.5 seconds

Yeah that's not how animation canceling works though. How about l2p before stating stuff like this?

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

@blabafat
The question is, why is WB uninterruptible? I have absolutely zero beef with WB's dmg output or its knockback whatsoever. The problem is, all weapon/class abilities with cast and channel time are interruptible but apparently WB is an exception to that. Why the inconsistency @ZOS? I need your reason for this. If WB isn't interruptible, then make ALL abilities with cast and channel time become uninterruptible as well. Keyword of the day: Consistency.

Yes I've done the few things people suggested on dealing with WB and have successfully done so but like @mtwiggz said, it's just a matter of milliseconds until we realise that we're knocked up in the air yet again.

Don't get me wrong, I'm against nerfing any abilities. Period. I just want the reasoning behind the uninterruptible nature of WB and if @ZOS admits it was a mistake and fixed it, then good. If not, make ALL abilities with cast and channel time become uninterruptible. It's a win-win situation no?

Melee abilities are not interruptable anymore. Goes for wb same as for biting jabs.

Barlthump · December 2015

Bashev wrote: »

Make WB interruptible. Risk against reward? There is no such thing in this game.

Then remove insta cast crystal frags. Or if I manage to block crystal frags you get disoriented and become snared, risk versus reward? OH LOOK AT ME I'M A SORC I SPAM FORCE SHOCK TILL I PROC AND SPAM FRAGS

Sneaky-Snurr · December 2015

Wollust wrote: »

kevlarto_ESO wrote: »

Wreaking blow is only overpowered because of animation cancelling if they could adjust or remove animation cancelling it would no longer be overpowered along with a few other skills it would also put an end to feeling like you were hit once and then on your death recap there were five skills in about 1.5 seconds

Yeah that's not how animation canceling works though. How about l2p before stating stuff like this?

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

@blabafat
The question is, why is WB uninterruptible? I have absolutely zero beef with WB's dmg output or its knockback whatsoever. The problem is, all weapon/class abilities with cast and channel time are interruptible but apparently WB is an exception to that. Why the inconsistency @ZOS? I need your reason for this. If WB isn't interruptible, then make ALL abilities with cast and channel time become uninterruptible as well. Keyword of the day: Consistency.

Yes I've done the few things people suggested on dealing with WB and have successfully done so but like @mtwiggz said, it's just a matter of milliseconds until we realise that we're knocked up in the air yet again.

Don't get me wrong, I'm against nerfing any abilities. Period. I just want the reasoning behind the uninterruptible nature of WB and if @ZOS admits it was a mistake and fixed it, then good. If not, make ALL abilities with cast and channel time become uninterruptible. It's a win-win situation no?

Melee abilities are not interruptable anymore. Goes for wb same as for biting jabs.

@Wollust
What are you talking about? Rapid strikes is interruptible. O_o