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Nerf WB if not, the game will slowly die. :(
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Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Helgi_Skotina wrote: »If WB will be nerfrd - another damaginh skill will be spammed instead. There is no reason to have 2 damaging skills on a bar.
Its funny to observe what kind of players vouch for wb. Thing is, there is no other skill offering that much benefits atm for such a low risk. That`s why 90% of stam people are using it.
That alone should be reason enough for anyone genuinely interested in balance and engaging gameplay to reconsider her/his stance on a skill that makes or breaks an entire playstyle (stamina).
There is alternatives already, but those take around additonal (!) 4 clicks more a second to execute, which is, on paper and in real world far more difficult to execute in a flawless manner during the entirety of a fight. Of course, (i would like to be mean here, but i won`t) "players" will choose the most easy route. Shouldn`t we BALANCE options also in difficulty of execution vs difficulty of executing a counter? I know, thats some heavy stuff for some of you, but something doesn`t have to be op to not be balanced.
How about we apply the same logic to putting up a hardened ward shield and make it require 4 additional clicks.
Difficulty of execution, and all that...2 -
daswahnsinn✭✭✭I play a stam DK and use 2h, bow, and dual wield. I only use 2 DK abilities on my bars, Leap and igneous shields. All the other DK skills are other magicka or DoTs that do little to no damage in PVP. I would really like to know if wrecking blow was nerfed or whatever, what it the other skill to replace it? If I had to rely on class skills as a stam base dps, well I could ZoS only gave DKs a small amount of stam morphs. Actually, sometimes in the heat of battle I hit the button too many times just trying to get WB to hit twice and if it hits more than that I apologize to the player if I kill them and explain why I spammed it. I guess I need to rethink my stam build and use the DK class skills, which are mostly mana, and just use the stam for show. Also let me add something else that should be nerfed too, NBs that spam fear or ambush, temps that spam biting jabs, sorcs and crystal frags. Don't forget the 14+k prox dets.| | daswahnsinn | Vet 16 Nord Dragon Knight | Bow/Dual Wield/Two-Handed Sword| DPS | | Warrior of the EbonHeart Pact | |4 -
ZoM_Head✭✭✭✭Dragon Night and Sorcerer stamina builds have no class based burst morph.
Nightblades have suprise attack
Templars have jabs
So "nerfing" it will effect two classes heavily. Think pve as well as pvp, so "nerfing" is not the ideal solution.
I find it silly that it deal 20K+ damage inside cyrodiil, where damage is halfed, i think that is the problem. They did remove the interrupt, maybe they should add it back in.Edited by ZoM_Head on December 17, 2015 9:07AMmDKs still need a lot of love!0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Dragon Night and Sorcerer stamina builds have no class based burst morph.
Nightblades have suprise attack
Templars have jabs
So "nerfing" it will effect two classes heavily. Think pve as well as pvp, so "nerfing" is not the ideal solution.
I find it silly that it deal 20K+ damage inside cyrodiil, where damage is halfed, i think that is the problem. They did remove the interrupt, maybe they should add it back in.
An interuptable melee range wind up skill? theres a reason frag spammers and easy kills.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
nordsavage✭✭✭✭✭What needs to be realized is that stamina players are left with very few options regarding damage. The majority of Class skills are magicka based. So between that and five weapon skills on five slots on each bar there is not much else to use. The fact of life on this game is that there is a need to spam repetitive skills due to the lack of variety and flexibility. Plus wrecking blow is easier to dodge than most skills. Everyone has a skill they spam you are just crying about the one you have trouble defending against. So until stamina based classes are created and expansion of skill lines happens this is what you are stuck with. I love to say "Keep asking for nerfs and we will all be fighting with sticks and rocks"Edited by nordsavage on December 17, 2015 9:30AMI didn't choose tank life, tank life chose me.0 -
Mojomonkeyman✭✭✭✭✭
✭Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Helgi_Skotina wrote: »If WB will be nerfrd - another damaginh skill will be spammed instead. There is no reason to have 2 damaging skills on a bar.
Its funny to observe what kind of players vouch for wb. Thing is, there is no other skill offering that much benefits atm for such a low risk. That`s why 90% of stam people are using it.
That alone should be reason enough for anyone genuinely interested in balance and engaging gameplay to reconsider her/his stance on a skill that makes or breaks an entire playstyle (stamina).
There is alternatives already, but those take around additonal (!) 4 clicks more a second to execute, which is, on paper and in real world far more difficult to execute in a flawless manner during the entirety of a fight. Of course, (i would like to be mean here, but i won`t) "players" will choose the most easy route. Shouldn`t we BALANCE options also in difficulty of execution vs difficulty of executing a counter? I know, thats some heavy stuff for some of you, but something doesn`t have to be op to not be balanced.
How about we apply the same logic to putting up a hardened ward shield and make it require 4 additional clicks.
Difficulty of execution, and all that...
I know, in your biased view of the world you think that was a very clever killer argument.
Thing is, I wholeheartedly agree, being a sorcerer. Look, there`s still some persons around who are genuinely interested in balance, because they actually had the pleasure to play more balanced games and know its much more fun to play a well balanced pvp game.
Love.Edited by Mojomonkeyman on December 17, 2015 9:40AMKoma Grey, Chocolate Thunder, Little Mojo, Dagoth Mojo & Mojomancy1 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Helgi_Skotina wrote: »If WB will be nerfrd - another damaginh skill will be spammed instead. There is no reason to have 2 damaging skills on a bar.
Its funny to observe what kind of players vouch for wb. Thing is, there is no other skill offering that much benefits atm for such a low risk. That`s why 90% of stam people are using it.
That alone should be reason enough for anyone genuinely interested in balance and engaging gameplay to reconsider her/his stance on a skill that makes or breaks an entire playstyle (stamina).
There is alternatives already, but those take around additonal (!) 4 clicks more a second to execute, which is, on paper and in real world far more difficult to execute in a flawless manner during the entirety of a fight. Of course, (i would like to be mean here, but i won`t) "players" will choose the most easy route. Shouldn`t we BALANCE options also in difficulty of execution vs difficulty of executing a counter? I know, thats some heavy stuff for some of you, but something doesn`t have to be op to not be balanced.
How about we apply the same logic to putting up a hardened ward shield and make it require 4 additional clicks.
Difficulty of execution, and all that...
I know, in your biased view of the world you think that was a very clever killer argument.
Thing is, I wholeheartedly agree, being a sorcerer. Look, there`s still some persons around who are genuinely interested in balance, because they actually had the pleasure to play more balanced games and know its much more fun to play a well balanced pvp game.
Love.
What a judge of character. Divines the world view of someone he doesn't know at all from a single post consisting of two lines. I'm red with envy.1 -
willymchilybily✭✭✭✭i dont think the skill is OP in 1v1 There are ways to fight against it. Complaining its broken for PvP when you get a group of spammers doesn't mean much. Anything spammed by a group using the same skill sucks.
for me the problem is the skill line's so well synergised with it's self it makes it seem like WB is OP. With execute slotted, rally, and empowered, the second WB is just so strong and with the CC knock down its almost certain to land.
the issue for me is the knock down + empowered. I'd go with one or the other myself, most classes have a CC outside of weapon trees and so don't need CC from their weapon skills. So much utility and functionality from slotting so few skills instead of making people chose what to use on their bar and expose a weakness
Edited by willymchilybily on December 17, 2015 9:56AMPSN - WarpPigeon - Guild: TheSyndicate - EU, Ebonheart PactDragon Knight [Magicka] - 720 - StormproofNight Blade [Magicka] - 720 - StormproofSorcerer [Magicka] - 720 - Flawless ConquerorTemplar [Magicka] - 720 - StormproofDragon Knight [Stamina] - 720 - StormproofNight Blade [Stamina] - 720 - StormproofSorcerer [Stamina] - 7200 -
SemiD4rkness✭✭✭✭✭Go to a dueling guild, talk to a sorcerer and mee, equip wrecking blow and try to beat him. You will lose.2 -
found1779✭✭✭Nerf dragonknights while your at it in the right hands dragonknights are op and almost impossible to kill 1 vs 10 -
Mojomonkeyman✭✭✭✭✭
✭Edited by Mojomonkeyman on December 17, 2015 10:03AMKoma Grey, Chocolate Thunder, Little Mojo, Dagoth Mojo & Mojomancy0 -
Bashev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Make WB interruptible. Risk against reward? There is no such thing in this game.Because I can!1 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Mojomonkeyman wrote: »
I only implied that asking for complicated attack sequence when the defense is rather uncomplicated isn't my idea of balance.
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Mojomonkeyman✭✭✭✭✭
✭Mojomonkeyman wrote: »
I only implied that asking for complicated attack sequence when the defense is rather uncomplicated isn't my idea of balance.
So your idea instead is to make everything a one-click process? Instead of targeting the worst offenders first with an approach that is aiming for longterm balance and skillful gameplay (defensive and offensive maneuver sequences that separate the good from the bad)?
What exactly do you want to achieve that way?Edited by Mojomonkeyman on December 17, 2015 10:11AMKoma Grey, Chocolate Thunder, Little Mojo, Dagoth Mojo & Mojomancy0 -
found1779✭✭✭Dragonknights need a Nerf cause wb is all they spam and they are almost impossible to kill as it is wb is the only thing they get good damage fromEdited by found1779 on December 17, 2015 10:33AM1
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willymchilybily✭✭✭✭Nerf dragonknights while your at it in the right hands dragonknights are op and almost impossible to kill 1 vs 1
[Moderator Note: Removed moderated quote]Edited by ZOS_KaeylaW on December 17, 2015 1:17PMPSN - WarpPigeon - Guild: TheSyndicate - EU, Ebonheart PactDragon Knight [Magicka] - 720 - StormproofNight Blade [Magicka] - 720 - StormproofSorcerer [Magicka] - 720 - Flawless ConquerorTemplar [Magicka] - 720 - StormproofDragon Knight [Stamina] - 720 - StormproofNight Blade [Stamina] - 720 - StormproofSorcerer [Stamina] - 7203 -
Refuse2GrowUp✭✭✭✭✭WB is not OP in itself and does not need a nerf because it is a hard hitting skill or because it is easy to spam.
CC immunity needs to be fixed (well known to be broken atm) because there is no reason this and other skills should perma cc you.
If looking at WB, the only thing that should be nerfed (more of a fix) is that you can be WBd from 20 meters away (or something ridiculous like that). Certainly think that could use a tweek. Melee weapon = melee attack rangePS4 NA Server
CP160 DK Firemage
CP160 StamSorc
CP160 Templar Healer
CP160 Stam NB
CP160 Magica Sorc
Cp160 Stamplar
CP160 Magicka NB
CP160 DK Tank
CP160 Stam DK
CP160 Mag Templar
CP160 Blazing Shield Templar
EP Loyalist0 -
Yolokin_Swagonborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭CrowsDescend wrote: »PainfulFAFA wrote: »ZOS needs to balance out the stamina builds that have no other viable burst DPS other than WB.
DKs and Sorcs have absolutely nothing in their class abilities that is a stamina morph for DPS.
I challenge all you QQ'ers (mostly console players) to play a stamina DK or stamina Sorc. Go ahead.
Take a close look the next time you get rekt by WB. They are either a DK or a Sorc.
Theres absolutely no reason for a NB/Templar to be using WB when they have BETTER CLASS DPS.
I did, Apollo Creed. I stopped playing him because I realized this, don't worry - I know why people resort to WB. I have nothing against WB users, but WB spammers? that's a different story. There's players who actually, effectively use WB in their rotations, and then there's the players who -only- use WB, nothing else.. sometimes they'll use a gap closer with it, but yeah.
My rotation goes Crit Rush> Talons>Unstable Flame>WB>WB>Executioner. Does that make me a WB spammer?0 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Mojomonkeyman wrote: »
I only implied that asking for complicated attack sequence when the defense is rather uncomplicated isn't my idea of balance.
So your idea instead is to make everything a one-click process?
No, my idea is that you cannot expect attacking to be complicated when defending is simple.Instead of targeting the worst offenders first with an approach that is aiming for longterm balance and skillful gameplay (defensive and offensive maneuver sequences that separate the good from the bad)?
I don't see how an one-button attack sequence is any worse offender than one-button healing (bol), one button shielding(ward), or one button dodging(roll).
Edited by Sharee on December 17, 2015 11:01AM1 -
Mojomonkeyman✭✭✭✭✭
✭Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Mojomonkeyman wrote: »
I only implied that asking for complicated attack sequence when the defense is rather uncomplicated isn't my idea of balance.
So your idea instead is to make everything a one-click process?
No, my idea is that you cannot expect attacking to be complicated when defending is simple.Instead of targeting the worst offenders first with an approach that is aiming for longterm balance and skillful gameplay (defensive and offensive maneuver sequences that separate the good from the bad)?
I don't see how an one-button attack sequence is any worse offender than one-button healing (bol), one button shielding(ward), or one button dodging(roll).
Where did I say it is? I just commmented on the specific issue raised in this thread to not derail it, while giving enough background to add reasoning to my perpective. I even implied ("offenders") that theres more than one obvious offenders in both directions (def and off) and agreed to you mentioning hardened ward as another...
Are you just trying to argue for the sake of arguing? My time is limited, please find another partner to debate semantics with, thanks.
No hard feelings.Edited by Mojomonkeyman on December 17, 2015 11:11AMKoma Grey, Chocolate Thunder, Little Mojo, Dagoth Mojo & Mojomancy0 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Mojomonkeyman wrote: »
I only implied that asking for complicated attack sequence when the defense is rather uncomplicated isn't my idea of balance.
So your idea instead is to make everything a one-click process?
No, my idea is that you cannot expect attacking to be complicated when defending is simple.Instead of targeting the worst offenders first with an approach that is aiming for longterm balance and skillful gameplay (defensive and offensive maneuver sequences that separate the good from the bad)?
I don't see how an one-button attack sequence is any worse offender than one-button healing (bol), one button shielding(ward), or one button dodging(roll).
Where did I say it is?
/points to the title of the thread you are posting in.Edited by Sharee on December 17, 2015 11:57AM0 -
Molag_Crow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Helgi_Skotina wrote: »If WB will be nerfrd - another damaginh skill will be spammed instead. There is no reason to have 2 damaging skills on a bar.
Its funny to observe what kind of players vouch for wb. Thing is, there is no other skill offering that much benefits atm for such a low risk. That`s why 90% of stam people are using it.
That alone should be reason enough for anyone genuinely interested in balance and engaging gameplay to reconsider her/his stance on a skill that makes or breaks an entire playstyle (stamina).
There is alternatives already, but those take around additonal (!) 4 clicks more a second to execute, which is, on paper and in real world far more difficult to execute in a flawless manner during the entirety of a fight. Of course, (i would like to be mean here, but i won`t) "players" will choose the most easy route. Shouldn`t we BALANCE options also in difficulty of execution vs difficulty of executing a counter? I know, thats some heavy stuff for some of you, but something doesn`t have to be op to not be balanced.
WB was fantastic & skillful to use - when it was bashable.
No its just cheesy and too good for its cost & risk. No matter how well one is able to handle it on both sides.
Love.
--ϟ-- Crows_Descend - Templar - Ebonheart Pact [PS4]&[PC] [EU] --ϟ--
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The greatest prison that people live in, is the fear of what other people think. - David Icke
Be your true, authentic self.0 -
Molag_Crow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »CrowsDescend wrote: »PainfulFAFA wrote: »ZOS needs to balance out the stamina builds that have no other viable burst DPS other than WB.
DKs and Sorcs have absolutely nothing in their class abilities that is a stamina morph for DPS.
I challenge all you QQ'ers (mostly console players) to play a stamina DK or stamina Sorc. Go ahead.
Take a close look the next time you get rekt by WB. They are either a DK or a Sorc.
Theres absolutely no reason for a NB/Templar to be using WB when they have BETTER CLASS DPS.
I did, Apollo Creed. I stopped playing him because I realized this, don't worry - I know why people resort to WB. I have nothing against WB users, but WB spammers? that's a different story. There's players who actually, effectively use WB in their rotations, and then there's the players who -only- use WB, nothing else.. sometimes they'll use a gap closer with it, but yeah.
My rotation goes Crit Rush> Talons>Unstable Flame>WB>WB>Executioner. Does that make me a WB spammer?
That's not Crit Rush>WB>WB>WB>WB>WB>WB>WB
so .... --ϟ-- Crows_Descend - Templar - Ebonheart Pact [PS4]&[PC] [EU] --ϟ--
YoutTube ESO Playlist
The greatest prison that people live in, is the fear of what other people think. - David Icke
Be your true, authentic self.0 -
Mojomonkeyman✭✭✭✭✭
✭Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Mojomonkeyman wrote: »
I only implied that asking for complicated attack sequence when the defense is rather uncomplicated isn't my idea of balance.
So your idea instead is to make everything a one-click process?
No, my idea is that you cannot expect attacking to be complicated when defending is simple.Instead of targeting the worst offenders first with an approach that is aiming for longterm balance and skillful gameplay (defensive and offensive maneuver sequences that separate the good from the bad)?
I don't see how an one-button attack sequence is any worse offender than one-button healing (bol), one button shielding(ward), or one button dodging(roll).
Where did I say it is?
/points to the title of the thread you are posting in.
Either you have serious comprehension issues or you love beating dead horses. I will make a last attempt pretending it is the latter and reply:
I did not make this thread, I commented on it - backing my statements up with arguments that are self-explanatory and even took time to explain myself further to you and answered your question(s).
What open questions I could reply to are left in this debate? I don`t get your agenda, what purpose do your posts in this thread serve, the ones directed at me in particular?
If you are mad, that skills are too easy to execute - we are on the same side.
If you are mad, because I didnt put up a list where I list skills that need equal attention - reason is, I didnt want to derail the thread (as explained before), I just stated theres is more than one.
If you are mad, because you think all skills should be easy to use - well, we happen to disagree, thats fine.
Please try to be more precise when expressing an opinion or critizising others`. Very basic concept in communication, it helps people understand wtf you want from them.
If you are not able to formulate full sentences that deliver your message in a clear fashion, please refrain from quoting me in future. As I said, my time is limited and I prefer replying to persons who have a decent level of education and know how to express themselves in appropriate fashion.
Thanks & best regards
Koma Grey, Chocolate Thunder, Little Mojo, Dagoth Mojo & Mojomancy0 -
AlcastClass RepresentativeSo many L2P issues. If you are dieing from a cookie cutter build because you also use a cookie cutter build then please stop the QQEdited by Alcast on December 17, 2015 2:11PMhttps://alcasthq.com - Alcasthq.com Builds & Guides
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PainfulFAFA✭✭✭✭✭
✭So many L2P issues. If you are dieing from a cookie cutter build because you also use a cookie cutter build then please stop the QQ
Lol this.
In the meantime ill continute wrecking plebs into the air until they give my sorcs actual stam skills.
Edited by PainfulFAFA on December 17, 2015 3:34PM0
