I wish ZOS would participate in these discussions

I went for a run this morning and this was all I could think about. Haha.

My number one change I'd like to see is a champion system that more clearly articulates playstyles as opposed to stat pool users(magicka/stamina). Our stats naturally benefit a particular playstyle but that should not define the end use as to how our characters develop.

This is a larger thought but something I'd like to see. What I mean by this are of our three constellations in each series I'd like to see things more aligned with how someone is using their total pool of resources, mitigation, weapons, armor, "world magic", active defenses (block, dodge roll, break free), and skills to benefit them without penalizing them for choosing the "wrong" armor or weapon.

For instance, if we look at the Warrior Constellations we currently have champion points that help to articulate the use of heavy armor/light armor/medium armor, etc. I don't believe this adds to the health of the game as HA/LA/MA already clearly benefits someone who uses a specific type of stat. As such, I would like the constellations to look more like.

The Lord= Defensive Playstyle
This playstyle is for those who actively want to defend by blocking and or passive mitigation but are not penalized for the type of armor they wear.

Passives include: Reduce Block Cost, Reduce Crit Damage, Increase Spell Resistance, Increase Armor. The active stars then entirely revolve around the active use of blocking, around passive mitigation and the like. The current Steed stars of creating a shield when you activate block, or shield defense are cool.

The Lady = Sustained DPS/Defense
This playstyle is for those who want to actively defend through the use of shields and/or healing.

Passive include: Increase Shields, Increase Healing Received, Reduce DoTs, Reduce AoE Damage. The active stars would then revolve around the sustained use of shields/healing to survive but does not explicitly benefit a magicka or stamina user (even though we all know magicka users naturally use these mechanics slightly more than stamina users). The current active Lord stars of potion drinking / rezzing suit this playstyle well.

The Steed = Burst DPS/Defense
This playstyle is for those who actively want to defend by avoiding damage / choosing their opponents.

Passives include: Reduce Dodge Roll Cost, Reduce Magic/Poison/Disease Damage, Reduce Elemental Damage, Reduce Physical Damage (?). The active stars would revolve around stealth gameplay, not being seen or hurt, or having specific opponents or times (interrupt bonuses) they can attack. I think the current 120 star from the shadow would be cool here. This also clearly benefits vampires and werewolves, and rightly so as those playstyles have specific disadvantages but also maintain huge burst utility. This obviously benefits Stamina users slightly more than Magicka users but that is because stamina naturally provides more burst utility than magicka users.

I could go on about what I think each individual star should be but I have to go to work. The basic premise of the champion system though should be more centered around generalized types of playstyles.

A general overview of what the Mage Constellations could be are: Pure Damage / Crit Bonuses (Bursty Playstle), Penetration / Debuffs Bonuses (Sustained DPS Playstyle), CC / Snare / Healing Bonuses (Support / Defensive Playstyle).

A general overview of what the Thief Constellations could be are: Cost Reduction Bonuses (Larger Resource Pools / Defensive Playstle), Passive Regeneration Bonuses (Sustained DPS / Long Fight Playstyle), Active Sustain Bonuses (Such as Potion Usage, Heavy Attack Restore, Reduce Break Free Cost and/or generalized bonuses centered around having "Windows of Power" that allow for "bursty" regeneration).

That was really one idea but its a big one so I'll stop there.

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

zerosingularity wrote: »

Heavy/Medium/Light Armor Focus(counter weight/infrequent bonus) - I think these are meant to be the counter to the Mighty passive (Physical Damage) but currently these feel lackluster at best. I know many would like this to be a % damage reduction while wearing the 5 pc (not % bonus to armor) but that might be a little powerful and would need a balance check in PvP AND PvE.

Arcane Well(clarity) - I never see this 120 point passive activate, so I do not know easily if it is working or not. If it is working correctly, a better telegraph to show it is working might be a good idea.

% damage reduction is the same thing as armor. Something that adds 3500 armor can simply be thought of as adding 5% DR.

Arcane Well = very quick and hard to see blue flash when a mob dies.

Thanks, I made a mistake, I meant "physical" damage reduction, not all damage reduction. Having it un-tethered to armor would have it stack differently and be more beneficial to the non-heavy users. (+15% armor is useless for tanks already at hard-cap anyways (in PvE), so they still need to be looked at.

Thanks for the Arcane Well heads up, it does need a better telegraph than a simple blue flash. Maybe a proc notification that mods can track. (Sorry consolers, I got no better ideas.)

I think they need to have something for every play style for example sorcs have nothing to bonus up pets (granted pets suck in PvP and end game but still). Also damage should be the same a % bonus to fire should be the same % to magic damage as DKs and Sorcs both have this as their primary damage type.

Lastly I really think they should look at Racials when looking at CP. There are already super racials. It we give a race +12% to base health then allow them to increase the new higher health by 15% though CP the race with the +12% to health gets a double bonus. The racials need to be balanced and be balanced at 0 CP, 300 CP or Max CP.

zerosingularity wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

guys, please NOTE:

this does Not apply to "PVP"
this is only for "PVE" very soon will be a NON-CP cryodiil campaign

Not all campaigns will be non-CP, so this still applies to PvP.

that campaign will be empty. i promise you, it will be empty.

Okay, okay. I thought of one other suggestion.

Nourishing shouldn't provide %healing from potion. It should provide %reduction on potion cooldown or %increase potion magnitude (providing either increased duration on buffs or increase resources on restores) in order to reflect the glyphs. Thus allowing an active regeneration playstyle possible.

Definitely should be a physical mitigation CP Not tied into armor.

As is, those whom would most benefit from physical mitigation (light armor) has no real counter to the already higher armor of medium (or heavy) coupled with an untethered spell mitigation CP.

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

didnt you guys say there is going to be a champion point free cryodiil campaign coming up next patch?
then this discussion and anything related to champion points is completely useless and void for those of us who pvp 24 / 7

For those of us that will not PvP on that server, this discussion is not useless.

Of course, that assumes this will be an actual discussion...

Less about stats, really - LOWER the stats CP give, and more about passives/abilities that weave/interact with your play/play around - as it should've been. Will give examples later.

I see a lot of people complaining about the sepparation of the stars increasing specific damage (fire, physical, magic etc). A fix could be to simply have the following two; Increase the damage of abilities that cost stamina/magicka.

Additionally here are a couple of ideas for stars just off my head that could be interesting:

• Increase movement speed by x%.

• Increase length of a dodge roll by x%

• Increase the damage of pets and summoned creatures by x% (come Spellcrafting)

• Reduce time to cast a full heavy attack by x%.

Derra wrote: »

What I would change on passives:
Thick skinned: Reduces the effectiveness of healing debuffs by up to 33% (additive counteracting befoul)

Befoul is already countered by Blessed & Quick Recovery.

The 33% of Befoul fits well enough with the 25% self-heal from Blessed and the 16% from Quick Recovery

hrothbern wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

What I would change on passives:
Thick skinned: Reduces the effectiveness of healing debuffs by up to 33% (additive counteracting befoul)

Befoul is already countered by Blessed & Quick Recovery.

The 33% of Befoul fits well enough with the 25% self-heal from Blessed and the 16% from Quick Recovery

Well maybe make it weaker then (sth like 20% at 100 points) but even if you have quick recovery AND blessed maxed it does not counteract befoul in the way wrobel describes it (and it should not take two passives let alone three to achieve that).

Derra wrote: »

hrothbern wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

What I would change on passives:
Thick skinned: Reduces the effectiveness of healing debuffs by up to 33% (additive counteracting befoul)

Befoul is already countered by Blessed & Quick Recovery.

The 33% of Befoul fits well enough with the 25% self-heal from Blessed and the 16% from Quick Recovery

Well maybe make it weaker then (sth like 20% at 100 points) but even if you have quick recovery AND blessed maxed it does not counteract befoul in the way wrobel describes it (and it should not take two passives let alone three to achieve that).

Take note that Blessed and Quick Recovery are combined in a multiplicative way !!!

If you have both at 100 CP you get 1.25 x 1.16 = 1.45 more Healing, or 45% more.

If you have both at 50 CP (the fair comparison with 100 CP in Befoul) you get 1.15 x 1.10 = 1.265 more Healing, or 26.5% more.
That would indicate that Befoul should not be more than 26.5%

But Heals do crit.
And if they crit they also benefit from Elfborn (Magicka heals) or Precise Strikes (Stamina Heals)
Again multiplicative....

So I think that the 33% of Befoul is not that badly chosen.
At lower total CP's available Befoul wins, at higher total CP's available increased Healing wins !

That at lower total CP available the offensive has better cards, can achieve more Damage output, than the defensive side..... is a general dynamic inbalance effect of the CP tree.
That is also one of the reasons why the one stat stack meta is so strong at the moment.

I mentioned this already in several posts lately, and again in this thread on post #11.


EDIT added:
It is kind of sneaky that Befoul is in the cost reducing constellation "the Thief" and not in the constellation "the Mage" where the other offensive stars are like Thaumaturge, Elfborn, Mighty and Precise Strikes....
Offensive characters can nicely stack

Before any changes, adjustments or whatever else is done an audit needs to be done to see what is working as intended and what isnt working. I've played this game since open beta without addons, just my style and I love it. However, if it wasn't for the add on developers and those who use them the community would have zero clue what was working/not working. For game design how the hell does that even make sense outside of covering for game mechanics not working?

If you really want the whole community's input (idk how consolers can even give solid opinions with all the hidden numbers) then open up to us in a clear and concise manner what stars effect what and how. Explain why some stars seem to 'jump' points in effectiveness. Outright give us, in full, the equations you use and let us not need to solve multivariable style, its a damn game not a job. I love the math work thats been done on sites like tamriel foundry and such I just prefer to play my games relaxed (addon less) ever since the jedi grind in swg (so many professions).

Then I believe we could start talking about addressing the champ system but until then how does someone without addons give any viable input? Why bother even asking? How can I even consider listing three stars that could be changed without taking into account affects on armor loadouts, weapons, racial bonuses, etc? The champ system is felt game wide; adjusting with thinking just inside the champ trees is folly at best disingenuous at worst.

/rant off sorry about that

magictucktuck wrote: »

Maybe a newb question but wanted to be sure. Using mighty increases my stam nb's suprise attack because it's phisical damage. Now power extraction and killers blade do magic but are also stamina morphs. Do they also get effected by mighty and thaumaturge or just thaumaturge?

Thaumaturge only. Mighty would have no effect on an attack that does magic damage. Basically, the resource used for an attack (stamina, magicka, ultimate) has no bearing whatsoever on Champion Points. The only thing that matters to the star is the type of damage done, as described in the tooltip. Weapons suffer from this, too. Bow skills all use stamina, but some attacks do physical damage, some do poison, one even does fire! That is 3 different stars (Mighty, Thaumaturge, Elemental Expert) to buff bow attacks. This is very confusing and makes getting the most out of CP kind of random, based on how your class or weapon splits out the type of damage it does. This is a big part of why I suggested a star to boost stamina-based attacks and a star to boost magicka-based attacks. Much clearer and easier to understand, much less likely to advantage some classes and weapons over others.