I'll just leave this here

The Root of the Problem - A lack of limits

Because of the stupid game mechanics. You stack damage (pool or damage) and these 2 attributes increase your survivability too. If ZoS separate healing, shielding, damage and resources then we can have some other options.

Same reason people like points in football, and do not appreciate watching good defense or low scoring games. The killing of people makes us all feel like we've done something like we've contributed. A 20+ minute stalemate that is resolved only when friends arrive leaves players frustrated and flustered. The best games have balance, otherwise sustain becomes the new meta and ESO becomes "game of shields". For balance players should be able to be one shot, or virtually one shot, but they should also be able to build tanks that have epic survivability. The current game build is pretty close to balanced if you ask me, the only thing I think could be greatly improved is reducing zerg balls which they have said they recognize and are working on.

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Same reason people like points in football, and do not appreciate watching good defense or low scoring games. The killing of people makes us all feel like we've done something like we've contributed. A 20+ minute stalemate that is resolved only when friends arrive leaves players frustrated and flustered. The best games have balance, otherwise sustain becomes the new meta and ESO becomes "game of shields". For balance players should be able to be one shot, or virtually one shot, but they should also be able to build tanks that have epic survivability. The current game build is pretty close to balanced if you ask me, the only thing I think could be greatly improved is reducing zerg balls which they have said they recognize and are working on.

Agreed. They have some tweaks left to do with class balance but otherwise I think it works for the most part.

I think a big problem on top of the thread dean posted is that you can put all points into stam and your heal becomes powerful enough to do fine. Putting points ito health needs to b more beneficial than other attributes or stacking pure stam/mag also makes u more tankier as well, sorc sheilds are prime example of how maximising your dps can actually maximise tanking as well

and im sitting here with my magicka dk and do ***.....

I've always focused more on sustain than most players, and yet my current build looks like a crazy damage stacking thing compared to earlier versions of the game.

Also pretty sure most players calling the current burst meta balanced haven't been playing in 1.5...

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

It seems the majority of pvp has turned into who hits the hardest & just about every build is centered around damage with little sustain. Completely understand the goal is to kill your enemies but at the same time where's the variety and originality?

I feel sustain builds are a bit better and more interesting too, at least you can get a taste of how skilled someone really is when it comes to using the game mechanics and managing their resources. In my opinion that's how it should be rather than bursting someone down, which is also pretty interesting since damage was "nerfed" but you still can manage to get insta killed thanks to certain builds & cheap skills. Note, I know you're not going to just burst someone down that's good but the average player you pretty much will which isn't skillful to me.

Which is a problem somewhat because I don't want to win a fight simply because I hit hard, would rather it be because I straight up outplayed my opponent using my skills and managing my resources properly.

Don't think it's ZOS fault, it's how the player base typically chooses to play, they could nerf the damage again but player's will just create a new hard hitting build to replace the old one's.

What's your thoughts?

I definitely think it's ZOS's 'fault', they changed the game mechanics by removing softcaps, stamina regeneration when blocking and dynamic ultimate gain, and by nerfing dodge roll. They made fear and fossilize go through block, they nerfed dragon wings to only 4 projectiles. The recent damage 'nerf' was nothing more than to bring damage to the exact same place as before we had veteran 16 rank characters and the crazy buff to damage that was brought through legendary v16 weapons and damage based sets, which can be used due to no softcaps and the crazy regen which you can get through Champion Points.

It is not possible to play defensively nearly as well as it used to be, thus damage and burst becomes more important - burst, which is now possible due to people not being able to play defensively and skills doing so much damage per hit. People do not need to focus on resource management. Previously, you would see people doing resto heavy attacks all the time. Not so these days. If you wanted to do crazy burst damage, you had to give up your sustain. Not so anymore.

Just think of how people used to run 5 seducer and 5 warlock. There was no need to use spell damage enchantments either, though it was possible of course. Seducer 5 piece bonus is, as I recall, 8% spell cost reduction. 8%! As a 5 piece bonus! Then look at the CP system - most magicka builds, I bet, put 100 CP in magicka regen, giving 25% more magicka regen, and enough to have around 8% spell cost reduction.

Ganking builds were possible previously, but they came at a cost. Playing defensively was possible before without hitting like a wet noodle. These days, attacking is cheap, defending is expensive.

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

I've always focused more on sustain than most players, and yet my current build looks like a crazy damage stacking thing compared to earlier versions of the game.

Also pretty sure most players calling the current burst meta balanced haven't been playing in 1.5...

Lol it's not balanced at all or close to being balanced. If it was you might actually see more unique builds rather than the usual ones the average player is running.

Remember back in the days when people used to put points into health lol?

Actually, you had to put points into all different attributes in PvP. Now it's like 62 magicka/stamina + every single enchant magicka/stamina for max dmg, max heals and max shields. The end.

JUST PVP? Lol. no.. it is in PVE too.

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Lol it's not balanced at all or close to being balanced. If it was you might actually see more unique builds rather than the usual ones the average player is running.

There are many unique builds as it is, regardless of what build you run people will flock to copy what made other successful. Lack of diversity has more to do with players lack of skill or courage or intellectual prowess as a whole than it has to do with balance. The game as it is now you can go all tanky and you will be very hard to kill, but you will also find it hard to kill others, or you can go bursty and be easy to kill and that is balance. Everyone should not be able both be tanky and put out huge dps, especially burst dps.

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Think if anything it boils down to both zos and the community, it's not anything new when it comes to pvp be it a fps or an mmorpg usually people go for the hardest hitting build or weapons. And if possible will exploit & abuse game breaking mechanic's.

Yeah ZOS is responsible for creating the game and fixing things but ultimately it's the player base that decides how pvp will play out. We could have tanks, healers, crowd control, dps etc. on equal or balanced levels through out pvp. It's not impossible, as a player eso players just generally go for burst builds.

Agreed, burst builds right now have more to do with how rewarding it is for players to actually get kills. Like the sword in halo2 it is something fun for players on a small level that is relatively easy to build towards. It takes much more time and effort to build an overall survivability build that also dominates, it also takes more skill with things like animation canceling and understanding your passives and how to use them.

As I play I've noted several different kinds of builds.

Now as for effectiveness usually its one kind of build per class, but not necessarily all dps.

DKs for example, are far different from my sorc, the more effective builds are inherently tankier than others.

Now if you are asking for diversity within each class, well that does seem to be lacking