Maintenance for the week of July 22:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance– July 22
The Scalebreaker DLC game pack and Update 23 base-game patch are now available to test on the PTS! Read the full patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/pts

Why Dragons should not be in ESO, and if added, how?

  • Spacemonkey
    Spacemonkey
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Just Lore tidbits and some thoughts:

    Aedra & Daedra
    Almost all sources state Dragons (Dovah) originating from Akatosh (which is an Aedra) - as children or whatever.
    This makes them much closer to the other beings of Nirn, than the Daedra which depending on the creation myth, cannot directly interact with the mortal plane. (<- it's the reason they can't die)

    So what would a 'Daedric' dragon be? A creature created by a Daedra in the same way Akatosh created Dragons? That's pretty much any 'daedroth' you meet in any of the games. Ogrims, Golden Saints, Winged Twilights, Dremora etc... Sure you could have a look-alike. Still wouldn't be a dragon.

    Would a 'Daedric' dragon be a corruption of a Dragon then? It would still just be a dragon, the same way the soul shriven are technically still human or mer etc...
  • LBxFinalDeath
    LBxFinalDeath
    ✭✭✭✭
    The only dragons that should be in ESO are undead skeleton dragons at most.

    Only skeletal dragons....and it should be deep deep deep down in a vet dungeon so the rest of the world never sees it in order to keep the idea that "Dragons may or may not be a fairly tale." til Skyrim happens in the timeline.

    Have the undaunted guys laugh at you for saying you beat a dragon and such.
    Edited by LBxFinalDeath on December 18, 2015 5:43PM
  • Lenikus
    Lenikus
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Would a 'Daedric' dragon be a corruption of a Dragon then? It would still just be a dragon, the same way the soul shriven are technically still human or mer etc...
    ... I think you mean this guy.
    Titan.jpeg
    ... Mai cave. >:3
  • Volkodav
    Volkodav
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    My first Elder Scrolls game was Daggerfall and I was pretty diappointed that the city of Daggerfall in ESO was nothing like the city of Daggerfall in Daggerfall. I mean not even close. I didn't expect it to look like a 1996 sprite-based game but I was hoping someone would at least take the old city layout into consideration. For an RPG the city of Daggerfall in Daggerfall was pretty huge - compare it to the "city" sizes in Morrowind for instance.

    So I guess in Elder Scrolls lore either the city of Daggerfall underwent an enormous transformation to a point it no longer even resembled it's former self, or one of the games isn't fully canon.

    The same could be said for the surrounding countryside and regions. They're a lot smaller in ESO (and have much more content).

    What's the point? Well at a certain point we should all just relax a bit on the lore.

    Yeah,I know what you mean.I was excited to get to go to Mournhold,only to find it didnt resemble Morrowind's Mournhold either.Where are the sewers,and the Clockwork City.THAT's going to become a separate thing now.I remember the quest that took you through Clockwork,and it was part of Mournhold.
    I want Vvardenfell to be introduced into ESO so much,but I am afraid of what it will be like.Just the names of places without even making them look close to the original places.I'd hate to see what they would do to Seyda Neen,my beloved home.
    PC/NA Beta tester
    January 2014

    (Oblivion is a playground,..Morrowind is home)
  • Zorrashi
    Zorrashi
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Dragons, as per the current lore, were largely rendered extinct in Tamriel when the dragon wars came to an end. Even though a small portion of them survived, those few dragons went into hiding and have seldom ever been seen--so much so that the people of Tamriel grew to view them as mere legends.

    If dragons were introduced as a substantially large population (ex. a zone full of dragons), then there is close to no substantial lore explanation that will really resonate with the TES audience at large. By that I mean that there is close to no lore explanation or backflip that won't seem "cheap".
    Dragonbreaks, time-travelling, Akatosh producing more children, long-hidden-dragon-cave-that-somehow-lasted-through-the-dragon-wars...no matter what spin they try to add onto it, it is going to be exceedingly, if not impossibly, hard to really make their implementation seem like anything other than a cheap form of pandering.

    However, I think it would be fine for even lore-junkies if one or maybe two dragons were introduced as bosses or something. If the number of dragons can be counted on one hand, the developers can easily create it so that the dragons we encounter are part of the "few who escaped the dragon wars" so long as the dragons are encountered in an area that is reasonably disconnected from the rest of the world at large.
  • Lenikus
    Lenikus
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    .... Should also be mentioned that the Elder Scrolls Online game is on the year 400~600 of the Second Era.
    The games you guys are talking about happen in the late Third Era. Wich is well over 500 years after ESo, so of course the cities are different. In here you see how those cities are like 800 years in the past, compared to ES IV, or ES V.. heck even the games daggerfall and arena all happened in the 3rd era
    Edited by Lenikus on December 18, 2015 6:01PM
    ... Mai cave. >:3
  • catalyst10e
    catalyst10e
    ✭✭✭✭
    Zorrashi wrote: »
    Dragons, as per the current lore, were largely rendered extinct in Tamriel when the dragon wars came to an end. Even though a small portion of them survived, those few dragons went into hiding and have seldom ever been seen--so much so that the people of Tamriel grew to view them as mere legends.

    If dragons were introduced as a substantially large population (ex. a zone full of dragons), then there is close to no substantial lore explanation that will really resonate with the TES audience at large. By that I mean that there is close to no lore explanation or backflip that won't seem "cheap".
    Dragonbreaks, time-travelling, Akatosh producing more children, long-hidden-dragon-cave-that-somehow-lasted-through-the-dragon-wars...no matter what spin they try to add onto it, it is going to be exceedingly, if not impossibly, hard to really make their implementation seem like anything other than a cheap form of pandering.

    However, I think it would be fine for even lore-junkies if one or maybe two dragons were introduced as bosses or something. If the number of dragons can be counted on one hand, the developers can easily create it so that the dragons we encounter are part of the "few who escaped the dragon wars" so long as the dragons are encountered in an area that is reasonably disconnected from the rest of the world at large.

    As you yourself said tho, it'd be pandering. Aside from that, it would mean a huge number of the population would know Dragons exist and are in fact no legend. On top of all that, Dragons are essentially atom bombs with wings, Tiber Septim uses Nafaalilargus in order to win the battle of Stros m'kai. He takes out one of the strongest naval units the Redguards had. and Nafaalilargus wasnt even as powerful as most other dragons, it diminishes the lore of how powerful they're supposed to be if thosands of people are able to fight and kill a single one as a boss.
    "Why settle for just stabbing your foes when you can roast them alive in a gout of arcane fire?"
    [| DC Breton Sorcerer || NA PS4 || PSN: Catalyst10e |]
    [| DC Dunmer Dragon Knight |]
  • tinythinker
    tinythinker
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    My Thoughts/Views on Adding Dragons (or pre-mutilation Falmer, or pre-Duskfall Argonians, or Dwemer, etc.) In ESO

    So, this is a go-to comment relevant to this thread that I also might link to in the future for similar topics. Might eventually make it a separate post. This is only my opinion, but feel free to add an "Insightful", "Agree", or "Awesome" if you wish to support it. I have no wish to tell other people what they can or can't want to see in the game, just to express my concerns about suggestions for adding in the missing races of Tamriel. These concerns may or may apply to other unseen or little seen races of Nirn.

    The Lore Thing: Why Casually Dumping Missing Races Into the Game is a Problem

    It is useful to distinguish between casually and carefully adding missing races, such as Dragons, into ESO. Many people who object to Dragons are imagining a casual inclusion. Here are examples:
    • having flights of Dragons flying over Tamriel raining down destruction ("I loved Skyrim!")
    • having a few Dragons only but making them known/visible to any adventurer who happens along and encounters them as a boss in a Tamrielic dungeon ("I loved The Hobbit"!)
    • having Dragons as mounts ("I loved Dragonriders of Pern! and/or "I loved Dragonlance!")
    • having mini-Dragons or baby Dragons as pets ("I loved Game of Thrones!")
    ZOS didn't make the Elder Scrolls universe, so they would have to get special permission from Bethesda to add missing races like Dragons to their game. There is strongly supported lore that carries over from other games that directly contradicts casually adding missing races into ESO. See the spoiler for my view on Elder Scrolls lore and why casually dropping in missing races is a problem. I use Dragons as an example.
    The approach ZOS has been taking is to use existing lore as inspiration and filling in gaps and exploring new territory to grow the game-world. Lore in The Elder Scrolls is not a straight-jacket of firmly fixed events to which future developers are slavishly bound. It is a fluid and living thing. But at the same time well-established history is not something to be casually altered or re-written, and ZOS has been mindful of that.

    There are folks who cry "lore-breaking" at the drop of a hat. There are people who are mad that Cyrodiil isn't a jungle in the era in which ESO takes place, or that other games failed to mention the Three Banners War. I don't have a problem with either.

    The former has no impact on the future timeline and can be explained away as scholar-error in a particular book. The latter can either be explained as "not all history books were included in all prior games" (or if you prefer a more convoluted answer, that a Dragonbreak has occurred and is creating an alternate reality that sprang into existence due to Molag Bal's interference). Either way, the existence or non-existence of the Three Banners War has no impact on the future timeline. The Interregnum ends, like in-game history says it does, and eventually further down the line Tiber Septim comes along and starts his dynasty.

    Nothing in Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion, or Skyrim is seriously contradicted by such embellishing of the lore.

    Having Dragons just reappear in the middle of the Second Era, though, is a different story. Literally. Dragons were supremely powerful, ruthless, and uncompromising. They would not appear in Tamriel for a minor plot or have a forgettable impact. ZOS can get away with elaborating on the fact that there were people fighting over the Ruby Throne by introducing the provisional militias of the three Alliances, but to have the Nords remember all of their history from the flight from Atmora to the Fourth Era but blank out on that one other time when the Dragons came back and terrorized the land? And to have the active Dragon living on top of the Throat of the World just "forget" that other time his kin returned?

    Yup, that would be a problem.

    Getting Around the Lore Problem

    Two ways to get around the lore-based prohibition to meeting Dragons, Dwemer, or unaltered Falmer and the like would be a "crisis point time-travel zone" (sending player-characters through time to a period of disarray and imminent destruction or decimation of the local culture or society so that people wouldn't remember or notice the strangers among them) or a "lost pocket of Oblivion zone" (some part of Tamriel got sucked into a timeless bubble and because of blah blah blah the inhabitants can never leave) but neither possibility has ever been put on the table.

    I have suggested using these strategies before to let us visit Atmora (ancestral home of the Nords) or Yokuda (ancestral home of the Redguards) before their destruction, and they could work for missing races as well. But, even so, there is more than just lore to consider...

    The Bigger Risk To Casually Adding Missing Races

    While I've suggested two lore-friendly ways Dragons, Dwemer, original Falmer, etc could be included in ESO in a very limited and lore-friendly way, lore alone isn't the only objection I or others have. The bigger issue for me personally is that the reason the missing races are so intriguing is because they are inaccessible, remote, and mysterious. They are part of the ambiguity of the lore, and ambiguity is essential for creativity and imagination. If we get to know all about and have regular access to the missing races, they lose their power and intrigue and become just something else in the game like goblins or lamia. Over-exposure would reduce them from legends to everyday occurrences.

    Anything that explores Dragons, original Falmer, Dwemer, the ancestral Argonians (prior to Duskfall), and so forth should be handled very carefully, from an oblique angle and with limited access. It should answer or explain very little, and raise even more questions than players had before. To do otherwise is a disservice to the fans of The Elder Scrolls series (including the games that will come after ESO), and the franchise and will have a missed opportunity to enhance, rather than diminish, a very popular gaming legacy. If ZOS can do it right, I would look forward to it. But to do it poorly or cheaply to make a quick buck? Not interested.

    As precedent, consider that Skyrim added an original Falmer, but didn't overshare or give away the mystique. Morrowind did the same with Yagrum Bagarn, "the last living Dwemer". ESO has done something similar with that village of Argonians, Haj Uxith, pulled into Oblivion from the twilight of that race's ancient civilization. This is the standard for missing races (including those whose ancient form or ways are lost to time) in The Elder Scrolls.

    So, you want to add Dragons or what not? Want to know what I think or if I would support it (it's fine if you don't :lol: ). That depends on just what you mean.
    Edited by tinythinker on December 19, 2015 12:06AM
    Make-A-Friend! Experienced, new, returner? Help keep ESO's community strong ᕙ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ᕗ and add someone new to your friend list ʕ·ᴥ·ʔ

    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

    Fifth anniversary year for ESO - Share your Best Memories! ◔ ⌣ ◔

    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

    Support Mudcrab Mode for ESO (\/)!_!(\/)
  • Zorrashi
    Zorrashi
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Zorrashi wrote: »
    Dragons, as per the current lore, were largely rendered extinct in Tamriel when the dragon wars came to an end. Even though a small portion of them survived, those few dragons went into hiding and have seldom ever been seen--so much so that the people of Tamriel grew to view them as mere legends.

    If dragons were introduced as a substantially large population (ex. a zone full of dragons), then there is close to no substantial lore explanation that will really resonate with the TES audience at large. By that I mean that there is close to no lore explanation or backflip that won't seem "cheap".
    Dragonbreaks, time-travelling, Akatosh producing more children, long-hidden-dragon-cave-that-somehow-lasted-through-the-dragon-wars...no matter what spin they try to add onto it, it is going to be exceedingly, if not impossibly, hard to really make their implementation seem like anything other than a cheap form of pandering.

    However, I think it would be fine for even lore-junkies if one or maybe two dragons were introduced as bosses or something. If the number of dragons can be counted on one hand, the developers can easily create it so that the dragons we encounter are part of the "few who escaped the dragon wars" so long as the dragons are encountered in an area that is reasonably disconnected from the rest of the world at large.

    As you yourself said tho, it'd be pandering. Aside from that, it would mean a huge number of the population would know Dragons exist and are in fact no legend. On top of all that, Dragons are essentially atom bombs with wings, Tiber Septim uses Nafaalilargus in order to win the battle of Stros m'kai. He takes out one of the strongest naval units the Redguards had. and Nafaalilargus wasnt even as powerful as most other dragons, it diminishes the lore of how powerful they're supposed to be if thosands of people are able to fight and kill a single one as a boss.

    Yeah, the dragon-as-a-boss thing was only a hypothetical minimum if they ever decided add dragons. But as I said, if they did implement it, they would have to make sure that the dragon(s) in question would be reasonably disconnected from the world at large (i.e. so away from the rest of Tamriel no one knows about it).

    That being said, I hope they never add dragons. There are several, more intriguing avenues that ZOS can employ to give the players an epic experience. Dragons, imo, should stay in Skyrim. Them being the go-to epic beast is far too cliché by this point.
  • Robbmrp
    Robbmrp
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ESO to me is about fighting Daedra and other factions, not Dragons. With that being said, I feel that by adding Dragons, it would actually take away from the game rather than add to it.

    What they could do..... is add in more Daedric flying monsters for us to battle. Those big Daedric Titans like Zandadunoz could be added into the game with relative ease. Molag Bal is supposed to be trying to take over Tamriel anyway so why not have him send in more flying daedra for us to contend with.

    Anything added along those lines would make the game a lot more fun and interesting. This could also stop the "Dragon" talk as well.... lol

    @ZOS_GinaBruno, @ZOS_RichLambert, why not add in more flying Daedric Titans for the players to fight. Give them different powers/resistances so that each one is unique. You could also add these into the Dolmens as it would help give people more of a reason to do them. They could spawn at random Dolmens the same as the Generals do. Just when you think your done with the Dolmen, BAM, a Daedric Titan drops down on you that's impossible to kill without x players. None of this solo stuff. In fact, make them more difficult the more players that are added.... You could also reduce the player damage on them to be equivalent of the zone they are in. So if a V16 is at a Dolmen in a level 40's area, they don't do more damage than the same levels in that area, just on this titan though.
    Edited by Robbmrp on December 18, 2015 6:26PM
    NA Server - Kildair
  • Spacemonkey
    Spacemonkey
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Lenikus wrote: »
    Would a 'Daedric' dragon be a corruption of a Dragon then? It would still just be a dragon, the same way the soul shriven are technically still human or mer etc...
    ... I think you mean this guy.
    Titan.jpeg

    That's more like the equivalent of Frankenstein's monster for Dragons. It's a creature created from the body parts of a dead dragon from what I understood - Which is why I did not mention the Titan
  • MrDerrikk
    MrDerrikk
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Volkodav

    I don't think that the Dwemer ruins that were in Mournhold were the Clockwork City? It's been a while since I've played it, but I distinctly remember people being surprised the ruins were there at all, which would not make sense as the home of Sotha Sil would be a well-known place.Anyway, that's another discussion entirely :P
    I have departed into the great unknown that is outside the game and the forums, and wish you well in your Tamriel adventures!

    DC - PC - EU - Australian
    VR11 Mrderrikk: Breton Stam Sorc (Vamp) | VR16 Derrikkinblack: Dunmer Mage DK | VR3 Cuts-Until-It-Dies: Argonian Magicka NB

    Oh look, Anook.
  • TheShadowScout
    TheShadowScout
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Volkodav wrote: »
    Yeah,I know what you mean.I was excited to get to go to Mournhold,only to find it didnt resemble Morrowind's Mournhold either...
    Events of ESO: 2nd Era, year 582
    End of the 2nd Era: year 869
    Events of Morrowind: 3rd Era, year 427
    That's... 714 years later by my reasoning.
    You are expecting a city to stay the same for friggin seven hundred and fourteen years???
    Go look at the cities in our world see how they changes over the last seven hundred odd years. At best, you -may- find some -very important- buildings that stayed the same with proper maintendence and a lot of effort to keep them from crumbling. But noone makes that effort for some streethouse, those get torn down and rebuilt. Sometimes bit by bit, sometimes a district at a time (usually in case of fires or war damage), and often enough when they rebuild stuff, they rebuild it different in an attempt to make it better.

    So, I am not at all vexed by "oh, noes, this isn't the same as in the other TES game", because considering the time span, its not -supposed- to be the same, any more then the city or Rome in Caesars time should be the same as the "same" city in Pope Gregorys time. Things change in time. That's how it goes.
    Robbmrp wrote: »
    ESO to me is about fighting Daedra and other factions, not Dragons. With that being said, I feel that by adding Dragons, it would actually take away from the game rather than add to it.
    Agreed.
    "True understanding can be found only in the Shadow between Light and Dark..."
    Leskandera - Sneaky Dunmer Bounty Huntress
    Kelasendar - Shy Dunmer Goth Librarian
    Kes dre-Lana - Righteous Orsimer Amazon
    Alakserden Haughty Dunmer Pyromancer
    Leers-Kanda Chivalric Argonian Dragon-Fangirl
    Karel Danes Drunk Nord Mountain Man
    Elsa Dekran Imperial Deserter Piratess
    Akar-Sendel Brutal Orsimer Executioner
    Skelandera Evil Altmer Necromantrix

    Andrea Selk Melancholic Breton Vampire Waif
    Al'Serkande Fat Redguard Ex-guard Bandit
    Dane Sarkel Fabulous Breton Hedge Knight
    Ales Endark Dour Imperial Grave Guardian

    Deslankera Busty Altmer Priestess
    Selkendara Happy Bosmer Tree-hugger Girl
    Kera de'Saln Skittish Khajiit Clockwork Kitty
    Selan Dekar Stern Imperial Blood Mage Exile
    Kral Na-Dees Pale Argonian Tomb Raider
  • Volkodav
    Volkodav
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭

    MrDerrikk wrote: »
    @Volkodav

    I don't think that the Dwemer ruins that were in Mournhold were the Clockwork City? It's been a while since I've played it, but I distinctly remember people being surprised the ruins were there at all, which would not make sense as the home of Sotha Sil would be a well-known place.Anyway, that's another discussion entirely :P

    There werte underground ruins that took you to a city that had different gears and levers,and puzzles that I think is Clockwork City.Although,I may be wrong.If so,..I'm sorry.It seemed though that I encountered Clockwork City in Morrowind.
    PC/NA Beta tester
    January 2014

    (Oblivion is a playground,..Morrowind is home)
  • Volkodav
    Volkodav
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Volkodav wrote: »
    Yeah,I know what you mean.I was excited to get to go to Mournhold,only to find it didnt resemble Morrowind's Mournhold either...
    Events of ESO: 2nd Era, year 582
    End of the 2nd Era: year 869
    Events of Morrowind: 3rd Era, year 427
    That's... 714 years later by my reasoning.
    You are expecting a city to stay the same for friggin seven hundred and fourteen years???
    Go look at the cities in our world see how they changes over the last seven hundred odd years. At best, you -may- find some -very important- buildings that stayed the same with proper maintendence and a lot of effort to keep them from crumbling. But noone makes that effort for some streethouse, those get torn down and rebuilt. Sometimes bit by bit, sometimes a district at a time (usually in case of fires or war damage), and often enough when they rebuild stuff, they rebuild it different in an attempt to make it better.

    So, I am not at all vexed by "oh, noes, this isn't the same as in the other TES game", because considering the time span, its not -supposed- to be the same, any more then the city or Rome in Caesars time should be the same as the "same" city in Pope Gregorys time. Things change in time. That's how it goes.


    Boy,you got a problem with me,dont you.In a couple of different threads,including my own.You cant seem to reply to any of my comments unless you talk down to me.
    I dont give a da-m-n what you feel,I'd hate to see Vvardenfell looking all different,so as to be unrecognizable. I didnt disrespect anyone,just stated my feelings. So please,...next time you reply to one of my comments,in any thread,at least try not to be too condescending.
    PC/NA Beta tester
    January 2014

    (Oblivion is a playground,..Morrowind is home)
  • Elebeth
    Elebeth
    ✭✭✭
    Volkodav wrote: »
    Yeah,I know what you mean.I was excited to get to go to Mournhold,only to find it didnt resemble Morrowind's Mournhold either...
    Events of ESO: 2nd Era, year 582
    End of the 2nd Era: year 869
    Events of Morrowind: 3rd Era, year 427
    That's... 714 years later by my reasoning.
    You are expecting a city to stay the same for friggin seven hundred and fourteen years???
    Go look at the cities in our world see how they changes over the last seven hundred odd years. At best, you -may- find some -very important- buildings that stayed the same with proper maintendence and a lot of effort to keep them from crumbling. But noone makes that effort for some streethouse, those get torn down and rebuilt. Sometimes bit by bit, sometimes a district at a time (usually in case of fires or war damage), and often enough when they rebuild stuff, they rebuild it different in an attempt to make it better.

    So, I am not at all vexed by "oh, noes, this isn't the same as in the other TES game", because considering the time span, its not -supposed- to be the same, any more then the city or Rome in Caesars time should be the same as the "same" city in Pope Gregorys time. Things change in time. That's how it goes.
    Robbmrp wrote: »
    ESO to me is about fighting Daedra and other factions, not Dragons. With that being said, I feel that by adding Dragons, it would actually take away from the game rather than add to it.
    Agreed.

    Also, Mournhold gets completely sacked at the end of every era (maybe that's why Almalexia is so grumpy) so they have to literally rebuild everything, or build something a bit different.
    So, yes, Mournhold looks quite different in every era.
    Volkodav wrote: »
    MrDerrikk wrote: »
    @Volkodav

    I don't think that the Dwemer ruins that were in Mournhold were the Clockwork City? It's been a while since I've played it, but I distinctly remember people being surprised the ruins were there at all, which would not make sense as the home of Sotha Sil would be a well-known place.Anyway, that's another discussion entirely :P

    There werte underground ruins that took you to a city that had different gears and levers,and puzzles that I think is Clockwork City.Although,I may be wrong.If so,..I'm sorry.It seemed though that I encountered Clockwork City in Morrowind.

    Yes and no.
    Under the third era Mournhold there are ruins of the second era Mournhold under which are the Dwemer ruins (probably from the time of Dwemereth).
    You get teleported to Clockwork City via "Barilzar's mazed band" but you never figure out or get told where exactly you got teleported (except that you are in CC). So the location of the city is unknown.

    EDIT:

    My first Elder Scrolls game was Daggerfall and I was pretty diappointed that the city of Daggerfall in ESO was nothing like the city of Daggerfall in Daggerfall. I mean not even close. I didn't expect it to look like a 1996 sprite-based game but I was hoping someone would at least take the old city layout into consideration. For an RPG the city of Daggerfall in Daggerfall was pretty huge - compare it to the "city" sizes in Morrowind for instance.

    So I guess in Elder Scrolls lore either the city of Daggerfall underwent an enormous transformation to a point it no longer even resembled it's former self, or one of the games isn't fully canon.

    The same could be said for the surrounding countryside and regions. They're a lot smaller in ESO (and have much more content).

    What's the point? Well at a certain point we should all just relax a bit on the lore.

    Well that's a bit flawed perception of the things. Mournhold has an explanation for looking different (check above) via lore.
    But Daggerfall looks different simply because of the game engine; no elevation in 1996 it seems :P

    P.S. I know that you are joking but I still decided to comment because I often see people who are raging on matters similar to what you've mentioned.
    I can't understand how some people just can't figure out that some things are not there (or are there) simply because game engine/coding. Oh well... :/

    Edit: Things like Argonian skeletons being regular human skeletons. It was just a laziness of the Devs (which they are changing in new DLCs) but I've seen people taking this way to seriously (lore seriously) :P
    Edited by Elebeth on December 19, 2015 2:01PM
    "I don't recall using teleportation, and yet there I was. Alone. Naked." Morrowind
  • TheShadowScout
    TheShadowScout
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Volkodav wrote: »
    Boy,you got a problem with me,dont you.In a couple of different threads,including my own.You cant seem to reply to any of my comments unless you talk down to me.
    I dont give a da-m-n what you feel,I'd hate to see Vvardenfell looking all different,so as to be unrecognizable. I didnt disrespect anyone,just stated my feelings. So please,...next time you reply to one of my comments,in any thread,at least try not to be too condescending.
    I don't got a problem with you. I can truly say, I hardly even take notice of most people, just deal with their comments without even remembering if I spotted the name before... so my style of reply is generally determined by the content of the comment I reply to, not the person I reply to.

    If I am sounding a bit condescending... well, maybe. Apologies for being how I am. No offense intended, may be a side effect of being me. Not gonna change to suit others though, but feel free to ignore any percieved condescending and just go with the content of my postings... ;)
    "True understanding can be found only in the Shadow between Light and Dark..."
    Leskandera - Sneaky Dunmer Bounty Huntress
    Kelasendar - Shy Dunmer Goth Librarian
    Kes dre-Lana - Righteous Orsimer Amazon
    Alakserden Haughty Dunmer Pyromancer
    Leers-Kanda Chivalric Argonian Dragon-Fangirl
    Karel Danes Drunk Nord Mountain Man
    Elsa Dekran Imperial Deserter Piratess
    Akar-Sendel Brutal Orsimer Executioner
    Skelandera Evil Altmer Necromantrix

    Andrea Selk Melancholic Breton Vampire Waif
    Al'Serkande Fat Redguard Ex-guard Bandit
    Dane Sarkel Fabulous Breton Hedge Knight
    Ales Endark Dour Imperial Grave Guardian

    Deslankera Busty Altmer Priestess
    Selkendara Happy Bosmer Tree-hugger Girl
    Kera de'Saln Skittish Khajiit Clockwork Kitty
    Selan Dekar Stern Imperial Blood Mage Exile
    Kral Na-Dees Pale Argonian Tomb Raider
  • WhiteCoatSyndrome
    WhiteCoatSyndrome
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    I echo the general sentiments so far: I could see them including maybe one dragon as the end boss for a Trial, but in general I feel if they include dragons they should be as important named NPCs and never as random ESO mobs. Paarthurnax setting us on a quest to retrieve some token of a long-dead mortal friend of his would be fine. Helping Nahfahlaar escape the Dragonguard by smuggling him off to Pyandonea might work. But no 'and then a dragon appears and attacks!' We have Dolmens for that. And I'm also inclined to agree that given a choice between re-hashing known lore with dragons, or introducing entirely new things, I'd rather have the new things. That said, OP asked how to make it work, so here goes...
    • Skeletal dragon. It was killed, but the bones are still there, and some necromancer made use of them.
    • A dragon made a pact with a Daedric Prince and is flying around their realm. Personally I'd shy away from this, as it's already been done (twice--Boziikkodstrun and Durnehviir) but as there IS some precedent, it wouldn't break anything.
    • Use a named dragon who was not confirmed killed by this point in the timeline. Ahbiilok was named as existing in Morrowind and has not, to my knowledge, actually appeared in any game or been confirmed killed. Paarthurnax has been brought up. Durnehviir could make an appearance if we go to Soul Cairn.* Obviously, there are some restraints on these--for example we couldn't do a quest to kill Paarthurnax, because he still needs to be alive in the 4th Era.
    • A dragon that isn't a dragon at all. It's an illusion--a powerful Nord mage is using the legends of the past to guard his lair.
    • Same idea as above but with a different implementation: Dragonlings from Daggerfall. They aren't actual dragons, but they look like them. I'd also avoid this one, myself, because then we'll have the opposite problem we do now--people who know just enough about the lore to know there aren't supposed to be dragons everywhere coming to complain about the proliferation of 'dragons'.


    *That would actually be easy for ZOS to do. Harken starts his vampire dynasty some time in the 2nd Era, yes? If they did, not a dragon DLC but a VAMPIRE DLC, or some other quest with the Dawnguard NPCs featured, they could give Durnehviir a cameo appearance.

    Robo_Hobo wrote: »
    I'm kind if surprised there weren't any Imga in Valenwood that we saw, as well.

    They had a really short comment in one of the Loremaster's Archives suggesting that the Imga had gone to Falinesti...*digs* Here you are.
    #proud2BAStarObsessedLoony
    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
    A useful explanation for how RNG works
Sign In or Register to comment.