Token system for Monster Helms (in addition to Gold/AP)

jrkhan · December 2015

robkrush wrote: »

Lol. What do you guys expect. To be given everything?

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Only good gold now is Craglorn farming nirns and gold tempers. I'd rather grind dungeon and get the helms over spending 3hrs to get about 6 nirns and maybe 6 tempers at absolute best. That about 7-9 dungeons depending on which ones your doing. Plus you'll get gold, items etc at the same time. I'm done with craglorn. Made 1m farming mats in 2 weeks of it but never going back...ever. no money in motifs now either unless you pvp and use AP for them. Even they are dropping in price. Shields are now under 100k from 200+ a few weeks ago.

The money is in v15-16 mats. A farmer can make 100k a day easy. A normal person makes prolly 10-20k a day if they arent stuck trying to do end game vet content every night. This IS a MMO so some grinding is required. We cant just run daily vet pledges and expect to progress.

So, in your opinion, it is not inherently a bad thing that people will be less inclined to run dungeons, and more inclined to gold farm.

This clearly differs from my opinion.

But I think our respective opinions are clear at this point.

hrothbern · December 2015

jakeedmundson wrote: »

robkrush wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

robkrush wrote: »

jrkhan wrote: »

robkrush wrote: »

You guys are going to be able to buy monster helms with gold or AP so i don't see why we need a token system. You only need 1, maybe 2, helms so it's not like you'll need to buy 20 things. Save your gold for the 1 helm you REALLY want and let this idea go.

You missed the point.
If you want to farm gold /ap for your helm fine.
It just shouldn't be a more reliable way then running the dungeon.

Can you come up with an actual downside for the token drop?
There are several benefits.

jrkhan wrote: »

robkrush wrote: »

You guys are going to be able to buy monster helms with gold or AP so i don't see why we need a token system. You only need 1, maybe 2, helms so it's not like you'll need to buy 20 things. Save your gold for the 1 helm you REALLY want and let this idea go.

You missed the point.
If you want to farm gold /ap for your helm fine.
It just shouldn't be a more reliable way then running the dungeon.

Can you come up with an actual downside for the token drop?
There are several benefits.

I get what you guys are saying i just don't think its that hard to come up with 250k gold to buy the helm you want then be done with it.

Ive got nothing against the "token system" but i think it's unnecessary.

Sorry but i'd never spend 250k on a helm with a random friggin trait. If that's what it will cost than they really aren't solving any problems are they?

Lol. As a tank who was forced to wear Footmans with Exploration through 1.6 I can promise you can, and will, wear bloodspawn or engine guardian with any trait. This isn't charity. You are gonna have to earn your gold and spend it wisely.

No $417 it's not charity...

And if you have nothing against it... then why are you even in this discussion? you're not for it... but you don't care if its implemented or not?
All i'm saying is that for many players... a token system would work better than a gold trade system for pve.

If you pve, you have to stop doing the things you enjoy to waste time farming for hundreds of thousands of gold.
If you pvp, you don't stop doing anything you normally do.... you gain AP by doing what you enjoy. (not to mention that some people have literally millions of AP saved up)

If you PVE you have more Achievement Points.
Would be nice if you could get a reduction on price based on Achievement Points.

robkrush · December 2015

jakeedmundson wrote: »

robkrush wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

robkrush wrote: »

jrkhan wrote: »

robkrush wrote: »

You guys are going to be able to buy monster helms with gold or AP so i don't see why we need a token system. You only need 1, maybe 2, helms so it's not like you'll need to buy 20 things. Save your gold for the 1 helm you REALLY want and let this idea go.

You missed the point.
If you want to farm gold /ap for your helm fine.
It just shouldn't be a more reliable way then running the dungeon.

Can you come up with an actual downside for the token drop?
There are several benefits.

jrkhan wrote: »

robkrush wrote: »

You guys are going to be able to buy monster helms with gold or AP so i don't see why we need a token system. You only need 1, maybe 2, helms so it's not like you'll need to buy 20 things. Save your gold for the 1 helm you REALLY want and let this idea go.

You missed the point.
If you want to farm gold /ap for your helm fine.
It just shouldn't be a more reliable way then running the dungeon.

Can you come up with an actual downside for the token drop?
There are several benefits.

I get what you guys are saying i just don't think its that hard to come up with 250k gold to buy the helm you want then be done with it.

Ive got nothing against the "token system" but i think it's unnecessary.

Sorry but i'd never spend 250k on a helm with a random friggin trait. If that's what it will cost than they really aren't solving any problems are they?

Lol. As a tank who was forced to wear Footmans with Exploration through 1.6 I can promise you can, and will, wear bloodspawn or engine guardian with any trait. This isn't charity. You are gonna have to earn your gold and spend it wisely.

No $417 it's not charity...

And if you have nothing against it... then why are you even in this discussion? you're not for it... but you don't care if its implemented or not?
All i'm saying is that for many players... a token system would work better than a gold trade system for pve.

If you pve, you have to stop doing the things you enjoy to waste time farming for hundreds of thousands of gold.
If you pvp, you don't stop doing anything you normally do.... you gain AP by doing what you enjoy. (not to mention that some people have literally millions of AP saved up)

%

jrkhan · December 2015

robkrush wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

robkrush wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

robkrush wrote: »

jrkhan wrote: »

robkrush wrote: »

You guys are going to be able to buy monster helms with gold or AP so i don't see why we need a token system. You only need 1, maybe 2, helms so it's not like you'll need to buy 20 things. Save your gold for the 1 helm you REALLY want and let this idea go.

You missed the point.
If you want to farm gold /ap for your helm fine.
It just shouldn't be a more reliable way then running the dungeon.

Can you come up with an actual downside for the token drop?
There are several benefits.

jrkhan wrote: »

robkrush wrote: »

You guys are going to be able to buy monster helms with gold or AP so i don't see why we need a token system. You only need 1, maybe 2, helms so it's not like you'll need to buy 20 things. Save your gold for the 1 helm you REALLY want and let this idea go.

You missed the point.
If you want to farm gold /ap for your helm fine.
It just shouldn't be a more reliable way then running the dungeon.

Can you come up with an actual downside for the token drop?
There are several benefits.

I get what you guys are saying i just don't think its that hard to come up with 250k gold to buy the helm you want then be done with it.

Ive got nothing against the "token system" but i think it's unnecessary.

Sorry but i'd never spend 250k on a helm with a random friggin trait. If that's what it will cost than they really aren't solving any problems are they?

Lol. As a tank who was forced to wear Footmans with Exploration through 1.6 I can promise you can, and will, wear bloodspawn or engine guardian with any trait. This isn't charity. You are gonna have to earn your gold and spend it wisely.

No $417 it's not charity...

And if you have nothing against it... then why are you even in this discussion? you're not for it... but you don't care if its implemented or not?
All i'm saying is that for many players... a token system would work better than a gold trade system for pve.

If you pve, you have to stop doing the things you enjoy to waste time farming for hundreds of thousands of gold.
If you pvp, you don't stop doing anything you normally do.... you gain AP by doing what you enjoy. (not to mention that some people have literally millions of AP saved up)

Fine. I was trying to give you a realistic view point but I don't have to waste my time on stubborn children. Ill collect my helms while you carebears cry about a token system that will NEVER happen. Adiós!

Thanks for the bumps!

In return, here is a 'realistic viewpoint' on telling dungeon delvers to instead farm mats:
By suggesting that (unlucky) dungeon goers farm gold, imagine they take your advice.
They are going to flood the market with v15-v16 mats, making it so your own gold per hour goes down. (Because supply and demand is a thing which exists)
You've actually acted against your rational self interest by posting that here.

In fact, you'd be better off with a token system:
Instead of farming mats and spending gold on helms, they will happily continue running dungeons and possibly even spending the gold they do make, on mats.
So, prices stay nice and high, and your gold farming stays efficient.

- - -

I think you've helped us establish that there aren't really any immediately apparent downsides to the token system for players. (Though as another poster mentioned, the new merchant would be a more direct indicator of player demand than would be the token system - If that is data that ZOS finds useful)

This forum is in part here for players to post suggestions for features they'd like to see in the game, and using it for that purpose does not make us stubborn crying children.

code65536 · December 2015

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

But hard mode is chucking them out at us. About 1 in 3 runs.

Well good for you. Our group has very long streaks of no helms for any member from vWGT, and we read that tome each time.

Anecdotal evidence is poor evidence, esp. when dealing with RNG.

DRXHarbinger · December 2015

^ have you farmed all the other helms? Read the other bits I posted. Do the runs and get all the others. Eventually you'll get multiple helms one after the other. Just sweating one out when you only have one or two isn't what I'm saying at all. Go and get others first.

jrkhan · December 2015

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

^ have you farmed all the other helms? Read the other bits I posted. Do the runs and get all the others. Eventually you'll get multiple helms one after the other. Just sweating one out when you only have one or two isn't what I'm saying at all. Go and get others first.

I hear that Serena Williams wears the same pair of socks throughout a tennis tournament for good luck.
I'm going to try never weapon swapping while in my next dungeon run to guarantee a helm drops.

DRXHarbinger · December 2015

OK so rather than try something that someone has told you worked for them you'd sit on the forum complaining. ...telling them they are wrong effectively and still have no helms from running the same crap over and over....cool Bro. Enjoy the no helmness.....off to grotto now for the final helm and that's all of them...

OT no tokens are coming.... carry on complaining.

jrkhan · December 2015

robkrush wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

robkrush wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

robkrush wrote: »

jrkhan wrote: »

robkrush wrote: »

You guys are going to be able to buy monster helms with gold or AP so i don't see why we need a token system. You only need 1, maybe 2, helms so it's not like you'll need to buy 20 things. Save your gold for the 1 helm you REALLY want and let this idea go.

You missed the point.
If you want to farm gold /ap for your helm fine.
It just shouldn't be a more reliable way then running the dungeon.

Can you come up with an actual downside for the token drop?
There are several benefits.

jrkhan wrote: »

robkrush wrote: »

You guys are going to be able to buy monster helms with gold or AP so i don't see why we need a token system. You only need 1, maybe 2, helms so it's not like you'll need to buy 20 things. Save your gold for the 1 helm you REALLY want and let this idea go.

You missed the point.
If you want to farm gold /ap for your helm fine.
It just shouldn't be a more reliable way then running the dungeon.

Can you come up with an actual downside for the token drop?
There are several benefits.

I get what you guys are saying i just don't think its that hard to come up with 250k gold to buy the helm you want then be done with it.

Ive got nothing against the "token system" but i think it's unnecessary.

Sorry but i'd never spend 250k on a helm with a random friggin trait. If that's what it will cost than they really aren't solving any problems are they?

Lol. As a tank who was forced to wear Footmans with Exploration through 1.6 I can promise you can, and will, wear bloodspawn or engine guardian with any trait. This isn't charity. You are gonna have to earn your gold and spend it wisely.

No $417 it's not charity...

And if you have nothing against it... then why are you even in this discussion? you're not for it... but you don't care if its implemented or not?
All i'm saying is that for many players... a token system would work better than a gold trade system for pve.

If you pve, you have to stop doing the things you enjoy to waste time farming for hundreds of thousands of gold.
If you pvp, you don't stop doing anything you normally do.... you gain AP by doing what you enjoy. (not to mention that some people have literally millions of AP saved up)

Fine. I was trying to give you a realistic view point but I don't have to waste my time on stubborn children. Ill collect my helms while you carebears cry about a token system that will NEVER happen.

Speaking of things that will NEVER happen...
I'll enjoy fighting other players on the ground, while you're crying about a mounted combat system that will NEVER happen.

Sorry! Couldn't resist.

jrkhan · December 2015

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

OK so rather than try something that someone has told you worked for them you'd sit on the forum complaining. ...telling them they are wrong effectively and still have no helms from running the same crap over and over....cool Bro. Enjoy the no helmness.....off to grotto now for the final helm and that's all of them...

OT no tokens are coming.... carry on complaining.

If tokens were coming, this would be an awfully silly thread wouldn't it?

I appreciate the criticism, I could be doing things more constructive than asking for features in a game, this is true.

Let's put it like this:
I like playing this game, and would like to see others continue to enjoy it.
If a feature which has already been implemented, were extended in the manner described in this thread, players who were growing frustrated with the RNG would be less likely to turn to gold farming instead of running dungeons.

This makes it harder for me to find people to run dungeons with (in the future) and also means I will have more competition selling things like v15-16 mats.

If I write a forum post that gets enough attention, it's more likely for someone in ZOS to take notice and a small chance that the feature will be implemented.

That way, there will be fewer frustrated players, more people to run dungeons with, and lesser competition for selling mats.
And I'm more likely to have a good time playing the game in the future.

- - -

In that respect, your continued posting about the charming things your group does to appease the RNG gods are appreciated.
I hope you can understand why I'm skeptical about the effectively of those things given the available evidence.

jakeedmundson · December 2015

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

^ have you farmed all the other helms? Read the other bits I posted. Do the runs and get all the others. Eventually you'll get multiple helms one after the other. Just sweating one out when you only have one or two isn't what I'm saying at all. Go and get others first.

Why would anyone farm for all of the helms?.... most aren't worth chasing. Also, if you need a specific monster set for your build... or you can only get one set of shoulders from the great RNG that is the gold/silver chests.... you would naturally just go for that one helm that would complete the set.

No one wants to waste their time farming for items they will never use.... thanks for the idea though.

DRXHarbinger · December 2015

Seriously not sure if being trolled here. ....but all of us got them doing a circuit quicker than grinding the same crap over and over and over....given your complaining about how long it takes.....well seriously get out of the thread...you can't be helped. That's for Mundson above...if your sat nav tells you there is a route that takes 200 miles longer or you can sit in solid traffic for 4hrs and not move or turn around which option do you pick? Same length of time but a bit of variety for the same goal. (Never know the other helms may come in handy for an alt one day)

code65536 · December 2015

My point is, when it comes to RNG and very low chances, you need a lot of data points in order to be able to make any meaningful conclusions about what actually affects drops. Anecdotal "evidence" is not evidence.

You want to throw around anecdotes? Fine, when I farmed Engine Guardian, I got 5 helms in the space of about 30 runs (though four of them were of the wrong weight for my build), and we did these runs back-to-back with no breaks. With all things RNG, it's usually not a good idea to draw conclusions based on anecdotes.

jrkhan · December 2015

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Seriously not sure if being trolled here. ....but all of us got them doing a circuit quicker than grinding the same crap over and over and over....given your complaining about how long it takes.....well seriously get out of the thread...you can't be helped. That's for Mundson above...if your sat nav tells you there is a route that takes 200 miles longer or you can sit in solid traffic for 4hrs and not move or turn around which option do you pick? Same length of time but a bit of variety for the same goal. (Never know the other helms may come in handy for an alt one day)

Okay, I can buy that it's more interesting to not run the same dungeon over and over.

So long as you can accept that there's nothing other than a random number generator that determines if you get a helm or not, and everything else is just seeing shapes in the clouds

jakeedmundson · December 2015

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Seriously not sure if being trolled here. ....but all of us got them doing a circuit quicker than grinding the same crap over and over and over....given your complaining about how long it takes.....well seriously get out of the thread...you can't be helped. That's for Mundson above...if your sat nav tells you there is a route that takes 200 miles longer or you can sit in solid traffic for 4hrs and not move or turn around which option do you pick? Same length of time but a bit of variety for the same goal. (Never know the other helms may come in handy for an alt one day)

Yeah... ok get out of the thread? This thread was created because of terrible drop rates (and a ridiculous gold trade idea for helms).... i'm in the right place, genius.

btw.... there is absolutely nothing (anywhere) that proves that running a "circuit" of all the vet dungeons gives you any better drops.... thanks for the hearsay and fond memories of your great luck in dungeons. You don't understand the problem because you were lucky enough to get a helmet to drop.
Also, just judging by history of eso.... they will make old helms MORE useless as they come out with new dlc. remember skoria? who wants that now? As new content comes out, they will make old sets worthless so everyone is forced to buy the new material.... everyone wants molag kena for dps now. lord warden is good for tanks. There are only two other helms that are even remotely worth getting... vCoH and vDarkshade helms. (for most cases)

DRXHarbinger · December 2015

Skoria is an awesome set for night blades. Bleed damage procs are easy to come by. Skoria will end up getting a buff too I reckon. They did it with nerenith when that was 5% chance.

jakeedmundson · December 2015

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Skoria is an awesome set for night blades. Bleed damage procs are easy to come by. Skoria will end up getting a buff too I reckon. They did it with nerenith when that was 5% chance.

First... not trying to be grumpy towards you... apologies, just frustrated with not getting shoulders and helms after so long.

I just wish they would understand how so many people never get these things to drop

also... i thought skoria got a sneaky nerf when they changed all of the DoT tics? less tics over the course of the DoT but more damage for each tic?

code65536 · December 2015

jakeedmundson wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Skoria is an awesome set for night blades. Bleed damage procs are easy to come by. Skoria will end up getting a buff too I reckon. They did it with nerenith when that was 5% chance.

First... not trying to be grumpy towards you... apologies, just frustrated with not getting shoulders and helms after so long.

I just wish they would understand how so many people never get these things to drop

also... i thought skoria got a sneaky nerf when they changed all of the DoT tics? less tics over the course of the DoT but more damage for each tic?

Skoria is pretty underwhelming. I use it on my magicka DK since, well, it's the best class for Skoria. But in terms of the amount of damage it does, I'm probably better off ditching that for a 1p Kena (and a Torug so that my staff is no longer orphaned) (but I keep using it because, well, it's fun).

Speaking of Kena, the main reason it's so popular is that you can proc it without two consecutive light attacks--a number of common LA>Ability>LA weaves can proc it (though not all). ZOS says they're going to fix this, and when they do, I expect the popularity of 2p Kena to fall (though 1p Kena is still great).

(Oh, and in response to your earlier comment, Lord Warden is a very underwhelming set--most tanks would prefer either Engine Guardian or, if they're a DK tank, Blood Spawn.)