Sureshawt wrote: »

Only because of the AoE mechanic. Remove it from PvP except for siege and things would improve greatly on all fronts including performance during massive battles.

Organized groups calling targets and focusing fire on called targets as well as tactical maneuvers will allow outnumbered groups to have a chance. Skill and tactics actually come into play versus mindless AoE spamming.

Remove AoE and a looooot of people would quit the game. So, no thank you.

mchermie wrote: »

Sureshawt wrote: »

Only because of the AoE mechanic. Remove it from PvP except for siege and things would improve greatly on all fronts including performance during massive battles.

Organized groups calling targets and focusing fire on called targets as well as tactical maneuvers will allow outnumbered groups to have a chance. Skill and tactics actually come into play versus mindless AoE spamming.

Remove AoE and a looooot of people would quit the game. So, no thank you.

Leave the game? That's silly.

Combat is centered around AoE zerging. This needs to be rebalanced so that AoE is situational, not mindless throwing it out there spamming.

I agree as I have said in my earlier posts. Siege should only be the main source of mass AoE in Cyrodil.

Derra wrote: »

Sureshawt wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Sureshawt wrote: »

Devotion wrote: »

remove caps plz. it may be a vague memory but many people were deceived coming to this game from DAOC. It was sold as taking influences from DAOC right up to IC and the ability to combat large numbers with fewer numbers.

im sure in fact there was a youtube video used from alpha/beta where 6 people killed like 50 or so? and it was a dev video demonstrating how good the game is.

"ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »
To add a little explanation, all area-of-effect abilities in ESO--except a few edge cases (the ones we fixed)--have always had some sort of a cap. We simply fixed the handful that did not, and were supposed to. We haven't touched any of the others. We're editing the note to make it a bit more clear."

i remember this was a huge *** storm back in the day. they "forgot" some of the skills were meant to have caps throughout alpha and beta.

Remove AoE completely from the PvP game except for siege.

Please do not remove AoE caps as that will only make the game even more AoE centric then it already is. I do not want a return to DAOC style AoE Mezz/Bomb groups.

AoE mechanics already encourage ball groups to run around spamming the same buttons over and over. It encourages lazy skilless play that a monkey could do. Removing the caps will just make it worse as it will become the singular way to play.

If you died to those grps - you deserved what you got.

I still remember those days fondly where doing something not smart would have dire consequences. When fighting quality opponents on the other hand aoe dmg was almost entirely redundant back then.

LOL.... yea because it was so easy to avoid AoE Mezz/Bomb groups and you had to be so skilled to run in and spam AoEs. Delusional or purposely deceptive.....

Well i´ve personally played daoc up to 2008/9.

Honestly when playing in our gildgrps we never died to cc/aoe combos. The aoe cc was ar too precious to instantly break it with dmg afterwards (not that you would hit a non stick running grp with a complete aoe CC anyways).
Like i´ve said. If you died to that you did not play smart and deserved what you got

Here is my explanation why I laugh every time I see a thread with tons of people asking for the removal of AoE caps.

Most players band together because they don't have the time or ability to compete. Zergballs are often half the population on the map. It is sheer idiocy to believe that implementing the ability to destroy a majority of the player base with small numbers is good for the game. ZoS is smart in not allowing uncapped AoE because within weeks of doing so, their game will slide until they have barely any population.

Every PvP MMO that has dwindled to insignificance or outright death did so because a small group of people could wipe entire zergs, typically due to uncapped AoE. It happened in DAoC. It happened in Warhammer. It happened in...

In DAoC, uncapped AoE was a problem from the first wave or two of 50's. Void elds ranged AoEing to blow everybody up. For a while you could AOE doors, and kill 50% of the players inside in a few casts...

Then came PBAOE groups. Group of 8, gaggle of 20, zerg of 100. It didn't matter. If you had the element of surprise, were moving fast and cc'ing first, you wiped entire relic raids and had very little cleanup to do. Breaking cc wasn't important until later on. In most fights, adds broke your cc. If you went to bomb a zerg, no cc lasted long enough to matter because zergs be zergs. It mattered for group play away from population centers, but that was dominated by radar until Mythic finally started banning the radar use.

As an aside, I really, really miss the deathblow scrolling of your name. You actually knew which players or groups were good, and did not confuse them with people posting cherry picked videos of killing low levels or baddies. Can we patch that in?

Jhunn wrote: »

@Wreuntzylla You know we once had a game without AoE caps, right? How the game flourished back then? And how almost 4.000 people voted against AoE caps?

Uncapped AoEs under a stat cap and uncapped AoEs without stat caps are not the same.

As to voting, forward camp removal for the reduction of zerging! OH YEAH!!!

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Most players band together because they don't have the time or ability to compete. Zergballs are often half the population on the map. It is sheer idiocy to believe that implementing the ability to destroy a majority of the player base with small numbers is good for the game. ZoS is smart in not allowing uncapped AoE because within weeks of doing so, their game will slide until they have barely any population.

If the "small numbers" have nigh-zero chance of winning (and by chance I mean having the opportunity to improve builds/strategy/whatever after a failure, not a fixed X% chance), they're going to make a choice:
a) quit
b) bring more numbers

In the end the players who "don't have the time or ability to compete" will stand out-numbered against those who chose option b). And then it will be their turn to choose a) or b). See where this is going?

There's no incentive to try and improve ones game-play when stacking more bodies works better.

Sublime wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Sureshawt wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Sureshawt wrote: »

Devotion wrote: »

remove caps plz. it may be a vague memory but many people were deceived coming to this game from DAOC. It was sold as taking influences from DAOC right up to IC and the ability to combat large numbers with fewer numbers.

im sure in fact there was a youtube video used from alpha/beta where 6 people killed like 50 or so? and it was a dev video demonstrating how good the game is.

"ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »
To add a little explanation, all area-of-effect abilities in ESO--except a few edge cases (the ones we fixed)--have always had some sort of a cap. We simply fixed the handful that did not, and were supposed to. We haven't touched any of the others. We're editing the note to make it a bit more clear."

i remember this was a huge *** storm back in the day. they "forgot" some of the skills were meant to have caps throughout alpha and beta.

Remove AoE completely from the PvP game except for siege.

Please do not remove AoE caps as that will only make the game even more AoE centric then it already is. I do not want a return to DAOC style AoE Mezz/Bomb groups.

AoE mechanics already encourage ball groups to run around spamming the same buttons over and over. It encourages lazy skilless play that a monkey could do. Removing the caps will just make it worse as it will become the singular way to play.

If you died to those grps - you deserved what you got.

I still remember those days fondly where doing something not smart would have dire consequences. When fighting quality opponents on the other hand aoe dmg was almost entirely redundant back then.

LOL.... yea because it was so easy to avoid AoE Mezz/Bomb groups and you had to be so skilled to run in and spam AoEs. Delusional or purposely deceptive.....

Well i´ve personally played daoc up to 2008/9.

Honestly when playing in our gildgrps we never died to cc/aoe combos. The aoe cc was ar too precious to instantly break it with dmg afterwards (not that you would hit a non stick running grp with a complete aoe CC anyways).
Like i´ve said. If you died to that you did not play smart and deserved what you got

Here is my explanation why I laugh every time I see a thread with tons of people asking for the removal of AoE caps.

Most players band together because they don't have the time or ability to compete. Zergballs are often half the population on the map. It is sheer idiocy to believe that implementing the ability to destroy a majority of the player base with small numbers is good for the game. ZoS is smart in not allowing uncapped AoE because within weeks of doing so, their game will slide until they have barely any population.

Every PvP MMO that has dwindled to insignificance or outright death did so because a small group of people could wipe entire zergs, typically due to uncapped AoE. It happened in DAoC. It happened in Warhammer. It happened in...

In DAoC, uncapped AoE was a problem from the first wave or two of 50's. Void elds ranged AoEing to blow everybody up. For a while you could AOE doors, and kill 50% of the players inside in a few casts...

Then came PBAOE groups. Group of 8, gaggle of 20, zerg of 100. It didn't matter. If you had the element of surprise, were moving fast and cc'ing first, you wiped entire relic raids and had very little cleanup to do. Breaking cc wasn't important until later on. In most fights, adds broke your cc. If you went to bomb a zerg, no cc lasted long enough to matter because zergs be zergs. It mattered for group play away from population centers, but that was dominated by radar until Mythic finally started banning the radar use.

As an aside, I really, really miss the deathblow scrolling of your name. You actually knew which players or groups were good, and did not confuse them with people posting cherry picked videos of killing low levels or baddies. Can we patch that in?

In short, you enjoy the way large group fights currently play out, and are the opinion that blubbing up is the equivalent to tactical and engaging gameplay?

Unfortunately, that isn't ZOS' opinion:

Wrobel wrote: »

We want PvP fights to be tactical, involving player positioning as a key element of engagements. We don’t want 2 huge masses of players mindlessly bumping into each other while spamming 1 ability.

There is no possible way you could reach that conclusion from my writing.

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Jhunn wrote: »

@Wreuntzylla You know we once had a game without AoE caps, right? How the game flourished back then? And how almost 4.000 people voted against AoE caps?

Uncapped AoEs under a stat cap and uncapped AoEs without stat caps are not the same.

As to voting, forward camp removal for the reduction of zerging! OH YEAH!!!

Actually damage from ults like standard was way higher back then - so this isnt really accurate. The current meta is pretty much the easiest to stay alive in with numbers - its the biggest factor on the battlefield, and thats due to poor mechanics/balance.


Also to your 'people left in droves comment' - the biggest chunk of population leaving in the shortest amount of time occured when AOE caps were implemented actually. Servers got reduced due to lack of population after that in a massive way.


All in all - its nice thoughts, but its not accurate at all.

Narrowing the argument to an ultimate that produces an immobile AoE , and that is not spammable, when you are arguing for uncapping spammable AoEs, is like arguing that all Ford cars suck and pointing to the Pinto for evidence.

More basically, ttk is is much lower on average now. Damage has somewhat recovered from the first day of IC but dodge roll and block are still in their nerfed state. Ezareth is over in the templar thread talking about his 17k crits...

Zergball meta? It's just recently that zergballs could be defeated at all. They would create so much lag that nobody would take damage, the server would crash after an hour and the winner was decided by whichever side logged back in the fastest. So, I'm not sure how you are comparing metas, theorythetical?

My anecdotal evidence is different. Non-zergball masses on Azura are taking out zergballs. Peeling from the back of zergballs with snares has become a sport.

I personally think that the solution to zergballs is unpurgeable, AoE snares. The masses don't get destroyed in a few seconds, but nevertheless get killed off.

"the biggest chunk of population leaving in the shortest amount of time occured when AOE caps were implemented"

That's kind of odd. I am not positive, but I seem to recall that most AoE's had a cap from day 1, and that only a small handful of abilities changed in the cap patch, most of them in the alliance tree. That caused a mass exodus??? If I remember correctly, most of the anger was that ZoS had not been truthful about AoE caps in beta.

The biggest pop drop I can remember was after forward camp removal. The servers all went from pop lock most of the day to no lock even during most of prime time, and they dropped the pop cap twice in that time period. The people who stumped for the camp removal defended it by saying everyone was out in PvE leveling undaunted for the new passives. Only, nothing really changed after that.... It wasn't until tamriel unlimited that populations recovered somewhat.

I totally agree that the state of the game can be described as poor mechanics/balance. However, I can't see how your proposed solution won't lead to the eventual demise of the game. Unless they nerf all AoE's so much that it no longer matters.

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Sureshawt wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Sureshawt wrote: »

Devotion wrote: »

remove caps plz. it may be a vague memory but many people were deceived coming to this game from DAOC. It was sold as taking influences from DAOC right up to IC and the ability to combat large numbers with fewer numbers.

im sure in fact there was a youtube video used from alpha/beta where 6 people killed like 50 or so? and it was a dev video demonstrating how good the game is.

"ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »
To add a little explanation, all area-of-effect abilities in ESO--except a few edge cases (the ones we fixed)--have always had some sort of a cap. We simply fixed the handful that did not, and were supposed to. We haven't touched any of the others. We're editing the note to make it a bit more clear."

i remember this was a huge *** storm back in the day. they "forgot" some of the skills were meant to have caps throughout alpha and beta.

Remove AoE completely from the PvP game except for siege.

Please do not remove AoE caps as that will only make the game even more AoE centric then it already is. I do not want a return to DAOC style AoE Mezz/Bomb groups.

AoE mechanics already encourage ball groups to run around spamming the same buttons over and over. It encourages lazy skilless play that a monkey could do. Removing the caps will just make it worse as it will become the singular way to play.

If you died to those grps - you deserved what you got.

I still remember those days fondly where doing something not smart would have dire consequences. When fighting quality opponents on the other hand aoe dmg was almost entirely redundant back then.

LOL.... yea because it was so easy to avoid AoE Mezz/Bomb groups and you had to be so skilled to run in and spam AoEs. Delusional or purposely deceptive.....

Well i´ve personally played daoc up to 2008/9.

Honestly when playing in our gildgrps we never died to cc/aoe combos. The aoe cc was ar too precious to instantly break it with dmg afterwards (not that you would hit a non stick running grp with a complete aoe CC anyways).
Like i´ve said. If you died to that you did not play smart and deserved what you got

Here is my explanation why I laugh every time I see a thread with tons of people asking for the removal of AoE caps.

Most players band together because they don't have the time or ability to compete. Zergballs are often half the population on the map. It is sheer idiocy to believe that implementing the ability to destroy a majority of the player base with small numbers is good for the game. ZoS is smart in not allowing uncapped AoE because within weeks of doing so, their game will slide until they have barely any population.

Every PvP MMO that has dwindled to insignificance or outright death did so because a small group of people could wipe entire zergs, typically due to uncapped AoE. It happened in DAoC. It happened in Warhammer. It happened in...

In DAoC, uncapped AoE was a problem from the first wave or two of 50's. Void elds ranged AoEing to blow everybody up. For a while you could AOE doors, and kill 50% of the players inside in a few casts...

Then came PBAOE groups. Group of 8, gaggle of 20, zerg of 100. It didn't matter. If you had the element of surprise, were moving fast and cc'ing first, you wiped entire relic raids and had very little cleanup to do. Breaking cc wasn't important until later on. In most fights, adds broke your cc. If you went to bomb a zerg, no cc lasted long enough to matter because zergs be zergs. It mattered for group play away from population centers, but that was dominated by radar until Mythic finally started banning the radar use.

As an aside, I really, really miss the deathblow scrolling of your name. You actually knew which players or groups were good, and did not confuse them with people posting cherry picked videos of killing low levels or baddies. Can we patch that in?

What you are writing here is not accurate. Player band together, but those who "don't have the time or ability to compete", to use your words, are incapable of being in a tightly organized blob to actually derive much benefit from AoE caps. If I throw a spear shards at a random group of 20 players in a given skirmish, I might get 8 of them if I am fortunate. Only 2 of those 20 are being affected by the AoE cap.

If I thrown that spear against these blob guilds that have 20, I will hit all 20 of them. 14 of them - over 70% of that raid - is deriving significant damage reduction.

And this doesn't even get into the scenario where a group of 6 bumps into a group of 16, where no matter what, the 6 are always taking full damage.

AoE caps do not treat everyone equally. They discriminate and offer more benefits to those who have the organization and - most importantly, the numbers to exploit them. They are, in short, not fair. That is why I and many others want nothing to do with them. Getting rid of unnecessary server calculations and dissuading blobbing are the proverbial cherries on top of the cake.

whsprwind wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Sureshawt wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Sureshawt wrote: »

Devotion wrote: »

remove caps plz. it may be a vague memory but many people were deceived coming to this game from DAOC. It was sold as taking influences from DAOC right up to IC and the ability to combat large numbers with fewer numbers.

im sure in fact there was a youtube video used from alpha/beta where 6 people killed like 50 or so? and it was a dev video demonstrating how good the game is.

"ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »
To add a little explanation, all area-of-effect abilities in ESO--except a few edge cases (the ones we fixed)--have always had some sort of a cap. We simply fixed the handful that did not, and were supposed to. We haven't touched any of the others. We're editing the note to make it a bit more clear."

i remember this was a huge *** storm back in the day. they "forgot" some of the skills were meant to have caps throughout alpha and beta.

Remove AoE completely from the PvP game except for siege.

Please do not remove AoE caps as that will only make the game even more AoE centric then it already is. I do not want a return to DAOC style AoE Mezz/Bomb groups.

AoE mechanics already encourage ball groups to run around spamming the same buttons over and over. It encourages lazy skilless play that a monkey could do. Removing the caps will just make it worse as it will become the singular way to play.

If you died to those grps - you deserved what you got.

I still remember those days fondly where doing something not smart would have dire consequences. When fighting quality opponents on the other hand aoe dmg was almost entirely redundant back then.

LOL.... yea because it was so easy to avoid AoE Mezz/Bomb groups and you had to be so skilled to run in and spam AoEs. Delusional or purposely deceptive.....

Well i´ve personally played daoc up to 2008/9.

Honestly when playing in our gildgrps we never died to cc/aoe combos. The aoe cc was ar too precious to instantly break it with dmg afterwards (not that you would hit a non stick running grp with a complete aoe CC anyways).
Like i´ve said. If you died to that you did not play smart and deserved what you got

Here is my explanation why I laugh every time I see a thread with tons of people asking for the removal of AoE caps.

Most players band together because they don't have the time or ability to compete. Zergballs are often half the population on the map. It is sheer idiocy to believe that implementing the ability to destroy a majority of the player base with small numbers is good for the game. ZoS is smart in not allowing uncapped AoE because within weeks of doing so, their game will slide until they have barely any population.

Every PvP MMO that has dwindled to insignificance or outright death did so because a small group of people could wipe entire zergs, typically due to uncapped AoE. It happened in DAoC. It happened in Warhammer. It happened in...

In DAoC, uncapped AoE was a problem from the first wave or two of 50's. Void elds ranged AoEing to blow everybody up. For a while you could AOE doors, and kill 50% of the players inside in a few casts...

Then came PBAOE groups. Group of 8, gaggle of 20, zerg of 100. It didn't matter. If you had the element of surprise, were moving fast and cc'ing first, you wiped entire relic raids and had very little cleanup to do. Breaking cc wasn't important until later on. In most fights, adds broke your cc. If you went to bomb a zerg, no cc lasted long enough to matter because zergs be zergs. It mattered for group play away from population centers, but that was dominated by radar until Mythic finally started banning the radar use.

As an aside, I really, really miss the deathblow scrolling of your name. You actually knew which players or groups were good, and did not confuse them with people posting cherry picked videos of killing low levels or baddies. Can we patch that in?

Hello,
I really liked that you brought in Daoc as an example but you need to understand that the two games are different.
In Daoc you can't CC break on your own. That game was really who mezzed first wins and albion sorcs OP.

That being said, i would like to point out what feng stated as one of the reasons aoe caps needs to be removed is because balling up is what is causing most of the lag (wheeler's explanation covers this). Ball groups need to go, and AoE caps removal will be most effective for this

Fix the lag first. The unbalance from pwning elite groups can be worried about later.

What DAoC are you talking about? The early DAoC (even then hibs had druid group purge) or the later DAoC where everyone could have purge and determination?

I don't disagree that zergballs need to go. The sooner the better. But having a majority of the player base leave as a result is not the way to handle it. This is coming from someone that has run in gank groups ever since DAoC release. If you worry about the unbalance of the elite groups later, the game will be dead at the same time as it gets better.

Seriously folks, some of you are bright individuals. How do you not see that people won't stick around if a group a fraction of the size of their zerg smashes them every time they come out? Because that is what will happen. If you give a tradesman the tools, he will use them....

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

whsprwind wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Sureshawt wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Sureshawt wrote: »

Devotion wrote: »

remove caps plz. it may be a vague memory but many people were deceived coming to this game from DAOC. It was sold as taking influences from DAOC right up to IC and the ability to combat large numbers with fewer numbers.

im sure in fact there was a youtube video used from alpha/beta where 6 people killed like 50 or so? and it was a dev video demonstrating how good the game is.

"ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »
To add a little explanation, all area-of-effect abilities in ESO--except a few edge cases (the ones we fixed)--have always had some sort of a cap. We simply fixed the handful that did not, and were supposed to. We haven't touched any of the others. We're editing the note to make it a bit more clear."

i remember this was a huge *** storm back in the day. they "forgot" some of the skills were meant to have caps throughout alpha and beta.

Remove AoE completely from the PvP game except for siege.

Please do not remove AoE caps as that will only make the game even more AoE centric then it already is. I do not want a return to DAOC style AoE Mezz/Bomb groups.

AoE mechanics already encourage ball groups to run around spamming the same buttons over and over. It encourages lazy skilless play that a monkey could do. Removing the caps will just make it worse as it will become the singular way to play.

If you died to those grps - you deserved what you got.

I still remember those days fondly where doing something not smart would have dire consequences. When fighting quality opponents on the other hand aoe dmg was almost entirely redundant back then.

LOL.... yea because it was so easy to avoid AoE Mezz/Bomb groups and you had to be so skilled to run in and spam AoEs. Delusional or purposely deceptive.....

Well i´ve personally played daoc up to 2008/9.

Honestly when playing in our gildgrps we never died to cc/aoe combos. The aoe cc was ar too precious to instantly break it with dmg afterwards (not that you would hit a non stick running grp with a complete aoe CC anyways).
Like i´ve said. If you died to that you did not play smart and deserved what you got

Here is my explanation why I laugh every time I see a thread with tons of people asking for the removal of AoE caps.

Most players band together because they don't have the time or ability to compete. Zergballs are often half the population on the map. It is sheer idiocy to believe that implementing the ability to destroy a majority of the player base with small numbers is good for the game. ZoS is smart in not allowing uncapped AoE because within weeks of doing so, their game will slide until they have barely any population.

Every PvP MMO that has dwindled to insignificance or outright death did so because a small group of people could wipe entire zergs, typically due to uncapped AoE. It happened in DAoC. It happened in Warhammer. It happened in...

In DAoC, uncapped AoE was a problem from the first wave or two of 50's. Void elds ranged AoEing to blow everybody up. For a while you could AOE doors, and kill 50% of the players inside in a few casts...

Then came PBAOE groups. Group of 8, gaggle of 20, zerg of 100. It didn't matter. If you had the element of surprise, were moving fast and cc'ing first, you wiped entire relic raids and had very little cleanup to do. Breaking cc wasn't important until later on. In most fights, adds broke your cc. If you went to bomb a zerg, no cc lasted long enough to matter because zergs be zergs. It mattered for group play away from population centers, but that was dominated by radar until Mythic finally started banning the radar use.

As an aside, I really, really miss the deathblow scrolling of your name. You actually knew which players or groups were good, and did not confuse them with people posting cherry picked videos of killing low levels or baddies. Can we patch that in?

Hello,
I really liked that you brought in Daoc as an example but you need to understand that the two games are different.
In Daoc you can't CC break on your own. That game was really who mezzed first wins and albion sorcs OP.

That being said, i would like to point out what feng stated as one of the reasons aoe caps needs to be removed is because balling up is what is causing most of the lag (wheeler's explanation covers this). Ball groups need to go, and AoE caps removal will be most effective for this

Fix the lag first. The unbalance from pwning elite groups can be worried about later.

What DAoC are you talking about? The early DAoC (even then hibs had druid group purge) or the later DAoC where everyone could have purge and determination?

I don't disagree that zergballs need to go. The sooner the better. But having a majority of the player base leave as a result is not the way to handle it. This is coming from someone that has run in gank groups ever since DAoC release. If you worry about the unbalance of the elite groups later, the game will be dead at the same time as it gets better.

Seriously folks, some of you are bright individuals. How do you not see that people won't stick around if a group a fraction of the size of their zerg smashes them every time they come out? Because that is what will happen. If you give a tradesman the tools, he will use them....

Forgive me if i'm wrong but the Daoc i played was 10 years ago, the only way to cc break was purge on a 30 min timer that most people lower than rank 5 would not even have.

Eso it's just a matter of right click + left click.

Anyway, the gank groups , are actually already present in current Eso. Small groups of 3-4 taking on 20 or more so it's not really going to drive people away. In fact people love watching these good players play and that is what will bring people to ESO

Back to the lag point: why worry bout unbalance when you don't even have a playable game? When a ballgroup comes along ping shoots to 1k anyway there's no balance to discuss everyone suffers

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Sublime wrote: »

In short, you enjoy the way large group fights currently play out, and are the opinion that blubbing up is the equivalent to tactical and engaging gameplay?

Unfortunately, that isn't ZOS' opinion:

Wrobel wrote: »

We want PvP fights to be tactical, involving player positioning as a key element of engagements. We don’t want 2 huge masses of players mindlessly bumping into each other while spamming 1 ability.

There is no possible way you could reach that conclusion from my writing.

This basically comes down to how impactful the removal of AOE cap's in combination with the other upcoming changes would be. This is because if Barrier/Purge/Maneuver are nerfed correctly, small groups still won't be able to take down large groups, while equally sized groups will be able to break up zergballs.

mchermie wrote: »

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

I agree as I have said in my earlier posts. Siege should only be the main source of mass AoE in Cyrodil.

What a boring game that would be. Stand still and push one button. Youre not able to use your abillities while youre sieging, you know?
"Lets see who can put up the most siege and spam left MB"

If you think that's what would happen, you're not giving it enough thought. If you came to a keep and saw 20vs20 people on siege, would you unpack your siege weapon to join the pack? Wouldn't you rather go kill enemy siege operators with your abilities? I disagree with the suggestion (siege-only AoE), but you can't dismiss it with the argument you made.

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Sureshawt wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Sureshawt wrote: »

Devotion wrote: »

remove caps plz. it may be a vague memory but many people were deceived coming to this game from DAOC. It was sold as taking influences from DAOC right up to IC and the ability to combat large numbers with fewer numbers.

im sure in fact there was a youtube video used from alpha/beta where 6 people killed like 50 or so? and it was a dev video demonstrating how good the game is.

"ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »
To add a little explanation, all area-of-effect abilities in ESO--except a few edge cases (the ones we fixed)--have always had some sort of a cap. We simply fixed the handful that did not, and were supposed to. We haven't touched any of the others. We're editing the note to make it a bit more clear."

i remember this was a huge *** storm back in the day. they "forgot" some of the skills were meant to have caps throughout alpha and beta.

Remove AoE completely from the PvP game except for siege.

Please do not remove AoE caps as that will only make the game even more AoE centric then it already is. I do not want a return to DAOC style AoE Mezz/Bomb groups.

AoE mechanics already encourage ball groups to run around spamming the same buttons over and over. It encourages lazy skilless play that a monkey could do. Removing the caps will just make it worse as it will become the singular way to play.

If you died to those grps - you deserved what you got.

I still remember those days fondly where doing something not smart would have dire consequences. When fighting quality opponents on the other hand aoe dmg was almost entirely redundant back then.

LOL.... yea because it was so easy to avoid AoE Mezz/Bomb groups and you had to be so skilled to run in and spam AoEs. Delusional or purposely deceptive.....

Well i´ve personally played daoc up to 2008/9.

Honestly when playing in our gildgrps we never died to cc/aoe combos. The aoe cc was ar too precious to instantly break it with dmg afterwards (not that you would hit a non stick running grp with a complete aoe CC anyways).
Like i´ve said. If you died to that you did not play smart and deserved what you got

Here is my explanation why I laugh every time I see a thread with tons of people asking for the removal of AoE caps.

Most players band together because they don't have the time or ability to compete. Zergballs are often half the population on the map. It is sheer idiocy to believe that implementing the ability to destroy a majority of the player base with small numbers is good for the game. ZoS is smart in not allowing uncapped AoE because within weeks of doing so, their game will slide until they have barely any population.

Every PvP MMO that has dwindled to insignificance or outright death did so because a small group of people could wipe entire zergs, typically due to uncapped AoE. It happened in DAoC. It happened in Warhammer. It happened in...

In DAoC, uncapped AoE was a problem from the first wave or two of 50's. Void elds ranged AoEing to blow everybody up. For a while you could AOE doors, and kill 50% of the players inside in a few casts...

Then came PBAOE groups. Group of 8, gaggle of 20, zerg of 100. It didn't matter. If you had the element of surprise, were moving fast and cc'ing first, you wiped entire relic raids and had very little cleanup to do. Breaking cc wasn't important until later on. In most fights, adds broke your cc. If you went to bomb a zerg, no cc lasted long enough to matter because zergs be zergs. It mattered for group play away from population centers, but that was dominated by radar until Mythic finally started banning the radar use.

As an aside, I really, really miss the deathblow scrolling of your name. You actually knew which players or groups were good, and did not confuse them with people posting cherry picked videos of killing low levels or baddies. Can we patch that in?

Neither DAOC nor Warhammer Online died because of AOE's

DAOC was one of those unfortunate MMO's around when WoW was released....The main MMO's at the time all took it to chin because of this..Most did not recover from it. While DAOC is still technically up...it like the other 3 big MMO's at the time (AC/UO/EQ) never truly recovered from it.

Warhammer Online died because they screwed up during development of the game and never could fix it. From picking 2 Faction pvp (which lead to horrible realm balance issues) to just the general keep system that was slapped together in Beta it just didn't work...That doesn't mean Warhammer Online didn't have a crap ton of features that you still see today in MMOs.

It also didn't help EA basically said *** it and abandoned the game after first year when they saw it wasn't going to achieve WoW numbers.

Also wanted to add warhammer would of probably survived if it had been allowed to go f2p; however from what was said about it the deal with game workshop would of made that unprofitable.. Basically ea had to give them money for every player/subscriber they had it seems.. And f2p players would of actually counted towards that.. And if they were spending no money that would of basically been bad news on EA part

Which sucks... Because warhammer had the trophy system which would of been one of the best ways for it to make money... I'm honestly surprised that system wasn't stolen by other MMOs yet.

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

23rd day since this "discussion" on AoE caps opened and we still don't know whats happening or where the future of ESO PvP is heading.

And we've also gotten one reply that did not have any mention of aoe caps, which is what this thread is about.