An alternative suggestion to the PvP/PvE gear discussion!
Zinaroth
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You all probably know by now that ZOS is planning to add a merchant to Cyrodiil that spawns on set days each week and sells the undaunted monster sets for either AP or Gold.
The reason they are adding this NPC is to allow PvPers the ability to get the sets without being forced to PvE. I totally understand the need and I think they should be able to, just like PvEers can buy PvP gear for gold.
We don't know yet whether the pieces will spawn with random or fixed traits, we only know that the pieces spawning at the vendor will be random each week, and that ZOS is still debating on whether they should be BoE or BoP.
If they go through with this I hope they will be BoP, unless they also make the drops from dungeons BoE, which leads to the point of this thread...
Let me first start by pointing out that the notion that gold is a currency for PvEers just like alliance points is a currency for PvPers is a myth. PvEers make less gold doing what they like than PvPers do because of repair bills and everything dropping being BoP. I am ofcourse talking about dungeon and trial runs here. Grinding should not be considered explicitely PvE since that is just somethig some people do to make gold, and has nothing to do with what PvE is all about. Just keep this point in mind while I keep going please.
Long have PvEers been able to avoid PvP and still be able to get the gear from it at the cost of grinding instead, to the benefit of PvPers being able to make some gold off doing what they like; PvPing.
Long have PvPers been forced to step outside PvP to get the gear they needed by farming dungeons, while PvEers were deconstructing duplicate monster pieces and being forced to grind to supplement their income to afford raiding. This benefited noone!
Now ZOS is adding this merchant, but it's a one sided fix...
Long have the PvP community wanted to be able to get the gear they needed from PvPing. Long have the PvE community wanted to make gold off the gear that drops.
Instead of adding this NPC and selling the gear artificially ZOS should make these sets (and all other sets for that matter) drop as BoE and encourage a free market.
PvEers would finally be able to make money off of what they like doing (like the PvPers), you would see a lot more people interested in doing the content at the prospect of income, and PvPers would be able to buy the gear for gold at guild stores instead of vendors.
To PvPers the only difference would be that they would but it from a guild store instead of an NPC and actually utilize an ingame mechanic instead of circumvent it.
Now there are downsides to this aswell ofcourse; this would not serve as a gold/AP sink if tha was the purpose of the NPC, and PvPers would have to ditch out gold to get the gear.
Regarding the gold sink "issue" I really dont think the NPC intended to fill that issue, but more the issue of making it available to PvPers, so unless someone else can enlighten me I don't see a big issue here.
Regarding the AP sink and not being able to purchase the gear for AP; remember the segment where I explained how AP = gold? I hope you understand by now.
Currently PvPers can translate their AP into gold by buying the much sought after Akaviri Motifs and sell them. Come next patch (when the supposed NPc is introduced) ZOS has also announced that they are bumping all AP gear to VR16, so even more stuff to translate AP into gold with!
I hope you all understand where I am going with this now...
In place of an NPC artificially spawning and introducing items into the game we would have a live and free market where both communities could benefit from each other. The added bonus being that PvEers would finally get their concerns alleviated aswell.
For ZOS and the game it wouldn't make much difference wether the gear comes from an NPC or a player, but for us players and for the health of the game it would make a world of a difference, and promote more interaction.
The only real downside there is to this alternative approach would be that PvPers would have to translate their AP into gold before being able to purchase the gear, but such is always the case with trading. In return though they would be met with a much richer PvE community who would pay more for their wares because they now also can sell their gear. A very small disadvantage if you ask me compared to the overall benefits and the healthy impact this would have on the game.
Now I know I said I would prefer all gear from PvE to be BoE but if ZOS and people feel uncomfortable with that we could just start out with monster sets only and work our way from there. I am sure we would be pleased with the results.
Tagging a couple of ZOS employees in here in hopes of this getting some notice;
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert
Feel free to tag others if you guys think I missed someone of importance!
Now please discuss this suggestion below and I would ask people to refrain from quoting the entire thing because that will quickly flood the thread.
PS: Sorry for the faulted spelling and grammar. I wrote this entire thing on my iPhone while lying in bed... RIP thumbs!
Edited by Zinaroth on December 7, 2015 10:37PM The reason they are adding this NPC is to allow PvPers the ability to get the sets without being forced to PvE. I totally understand the need and I think they should be able to, just like PvEers can buy PvP gear for gold.
We don't know yet whether the pieces will spawn with random or fixed traits, we only know that the pieces spawning at the vendor will be random each week, and that ZOS is still debating on whether they should be BoE or BoP.
If they go through with this I hope they will be BoP, unless they also make the drops from dungeons BoE, which leads to the point of this thread...
Let me first start by pointing out that the notion that gold is a currency for PvEers just like alliance points is a currency for PvPers is a myth. PvEers make less gold doing what they like than PvPers do because of repair bills and everything dropping being BoP. I am ofcourse talking about dungeon and trial runs here. Grinding should not be considered explicitely PvE since that is just somethig some people do to make gold, and has nothing to do with what PvE is all about. Just keep this point in mind while I keep going please.
Long have PvEers been able to avoid PvP and still be able to get the gear from it at the cost of grinding instead, to the benefit of PvPers being able to make some gold off doing what they like; PvPing.
Long have PvPers been forced to step outside PvP to get the gear they needed by farming dungeons, while PvEers were deconstructing duplicate monster pieces and being forced to grind to supplement their income to afford raiding. This benefited noone!
Now ZOS is adding this merchant, but it's a one sided fix...
Long have the PvP community wanted to be able to get the gear they needed from PvPing. Long have the PvE community wanted to make gold off the gear that drops.
Instead of adding this NPC and selling the gear artificially ZOS should make these sets (and all other sets for that matter) drop as BoE and encourage a free market.
PvEers would finally be able to make money off of what they like doing (like the PvPers), you would see a lot more people interested in doing the content at the prospect of income, and PvPers would be able to buy the gear for gold at guild stores instead of vendors.
To PvPers the only difference would be that they would but it from a guild store instead of an NPC and actually utilize an ingame mechanic instead of circumvent it.
Now there are downsides to this aswell ofcourse; this would not serve as a gold/AP sink if tha was the purpose of the NPC, and PvPers would have to ditch out gold to get the gear.
Regarding the gold sink "issue" I really dont think the NPC intended to fill that issue, but more the issue of making it available to PvPers, so unless someone else can enlighten me I don't see a big issue here.
Regarding the AP sink and not being able to purchase the gear for AP; remember the segment where I explained how AP = gold? I hope you understand by now.
Currently PvPers can translate their AP into gold by buying the much sought after Akaviri Motifs and sell them. Come next patch (when the supposed NPc is introduced) ZOS has also announced that they are bumping all AP gear to VR16, so even more stuff to translate AP into gold with!
I hope you all understand where I am going with this now...
In place of an NPC artificially spawning and introducing items into the game we would have a live and free market where both communities could benefit from each other. The added bonus being that PvEers would finally get their concerns alleviated aswell.
For ZOS and the game it wouldn't make much difference wether the gear comes from an NPC or a player, but for us players and for the health of the game it would make a world of a difference, and promote more interaction.
The only real downside there is to this alternative approach would be that PvPers would have to translate their AP into gold before being able to purchase the gear, but such is always the case with trading. In return though they would be met with a much richer PvE community who would pay more for their wares because they now also can sell their gear. A very small disadvantage if you ask me compared to the overall benefits and the healthy impact this would have on the game.
Now I know I said I would prefer all gear from PvE to be BoE but if ZOS and people feel uncomfortable with that we could just start out with monster sets only and work our way from there. I am sure we would be pleased with the results.
Tagging a couple of ZOS employees in here in hopes of this getting some notice;
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert
Feel free to tag others if you guys think I missed someone of importance!
Now please discuss this suggestion below and I would ask people to refrain from quoting the entire thing because that will quickly flood the thread.
PS: Sorry for the faulted spelling and grammar. I wrote this entire thing on my iPhone while lying in bed... RIP thumbs!
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Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The system I would rather see.
Removed BoP from most sets, let PvE and PvP players trade general drops.
Add Masters/Maelstrom/Undaunted items to the end of campaign rewards (because the sets there ATM are garbage), make these BoP, keep them BoP in PvE.
We're back to how it used to be before undaunted sets and everyone is happy again.@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."1 -
Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Good to have long constructive ones like yours however, I would rather more of these on the forums than the normal "this idea sucks!" and then no elaboration or alternative ideas.
@ZOS_BrianWheeler if you have the time read this over please.
I just hope that ZOS are not already set in their ways about this idea and are willing to turn back if they like the alternatives the community is offering. As PvE players are going to be rather annoyed that PvP players can just buy perfect gear they spend months farming for.@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."0 -
Sausage✭✭✭✭✭
✭I personally think we dont need BoP items anymore, if Housing is going to replace the long term progression in ESO, so ideally we get 4 DLC (Each DLC offer CP-grind, so theres always something to do) per year and in the meanwhile you can work on your house, totally optional though. I think though PVE side should have AP or TS kind of grind, Ive thought maybe Veteran Points, from all kind of vet-content, first thing they could add is to make Cyrodil Ranks purchasable with Veteran Points, so thats basically the next grind for PVE players and gain Skill Points.
One thing what this game loses if they remove BoP is bragging right items. For many player BoP items are bragging right thing. I was thinking maybe they should use Leaderboards for those, like what else? You want to be top dog, prove it! You get Leaderboards Points and you can buy some unique mounts, crafting, style etc, with them, something what isnt never sold at Crown Store.Edited by Sausage on December 8, 2015 11:52AM1 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I wouldn't mind if the drops were BoE and I could purchase them from PVE dudes/dudettes. I'd probably prefer this than having them sold in Cyrodiil.
Of course I loved the idea when Brian first announced it, but doing this, you're causing even more conflict between the two communities, as we've already seen.
Keep it how it is, make the drops BoE so the PVErs can sell them, make a profit, and gives the chance for us PVPers to buy from you guys instead of delving. It also means they have a reason to go into dungeons again. Selling this stuff for gold or AP kinda nullifies any reason for stepping foot inside there again, I would imagine.
We would also need more ways to transfer AP into gold however, because selling the pitiful rewards we get does not amount to much.
But yeah, that could totally work.1 -
Zinaroth✭✭✭✭✭
✭I just hope that ZOS are not already set in their ways about this idea and are willing to turn back if they like the alternatives the community is offering. As PvE players are going to be rather annoyed that PvP players can just buy perfect gear they spend months farming for.
They usually are but I am still hoping their minds can be changed by suggestions that are overall better.
I really don't mind PvP players being able to purchase it eventhough I farmed for a long time, but it would be cooler if the items came from the players.I personally think we dont need BoP items anymore, if Housing is going to replace the long term progression in ESO, so ideally we get 4 DLC (Each DLC offer CP-grind, so theres always something to do) per year and in the meanwhile you can work on your house, totally optional though. I think though PVE side should have AP or TS kind of grind, Ive thought maybe Veteran Points, from all kind of vet-content, first thing they could add is to make Cyrodil Ranks purchasable with Veteran Points, so thats basically the next grind for PVE players and gain Skill Points.
Sorry not following you. Are you agreeing with me? Also don't see what Cyrodiil ranks has to do with the topic? Sorry if I am misunderstanding you.One thing what this game loses if they remove BoP is bragging right items. For many player BoP items are bragging right thing. I was thinking maybe they should use Leaderboards for those, like what else? You want to be top dog, prove it! You get Leaderboards Points and you can buy some unique mounts, crafting, style etc, with them, something what isnt never sold at Crown Store.
I don't agree, leaderboard position is for bragging rights. Right now there's no bragging right about having a monster set piece in my opinion and I don't see the need for it.
Edited by Zinaroth on December 8, 2015 3:18PM0 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
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Sorry not following you. Are you agreeing with me? Also don't see what Cyrodiil ranks has to do with the topic? Sorry if I am misunderstanding you.
Well, the PvP equivalent of getting the Monster sets for PvE folks is getting your Alliance Skill line high enough that you can get the desirable skills (Caltrops, Vigor, Barrier). That's what they mean.
Personally, I'd be ok with all gear other than Monster Sets/Malestrom/Master being BoE. But the fact that the monster sets are so content specific makes it very odd that they would be available outside that content.The Moot Councillor1 -
Zinaroth✭✭✭✭✭
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Sorry not following you. Are you agreeing with me? Also don't see what Cyrodiil ranks has to do with the topic? Sorry if I am misunderstanding you.
Well, the PvP equivalent of getting the Monster sets for PvE folks is getting your Alliance Skill line high enough that you can get the desirable skills (Caltrops, Vigor, Barrier). That's what they mean.
Personally, I'd be ok with all gear other than Monster Sets/Malestrom/Master being BoE. But the fact that the monster sets are so content specific makes it very odd that they would be available outside that content.
I still don't understand why Alliance Skill lines are being brought into this discussion.
I agree with Master and Maelstrom weapons being BoP, but I don't see the point of keeping the monster sets that way when they're planning to sell them at an NPC anyway.
Just to repeat myself: Get rid of the whole idea with the NPC and make the gear BoE. Benefits both sides.1 -
Sausage✭✭✭✭✭
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Sorry not following you. Are you agreeing with me? Also don't see what Cyrodiil ranks has to do with the topic? Sorry if I am misunderstanding you.
Well, the PvP equivalent of getting the Monster sets for PvE folks is getting your Alliance Skill line high enough that you can get the desirable skills (Caltrops, Vigor, Barrier). That's what they mean.
Personally, I'd be ok with all gear other than Monster Sets/Malestrom/Master being BoE. But the fact that the monster sets are so content specific makes it very odd that they would be available outside that content.
I still don't understand why Alliance Skill lines are being brought into this discussion.
I agree with Master and Maelstrom weapons being BoP, but I don't see the point of keeping the monster sets that way when they're planning to sell them at an NPC anyway.
Just to repeat myself: Get rid of the whole idea with the NPC and make the gear BoE. Benefits both sides.I just hope that ZOS are not already set in their ways about this idea and are willing to turn back if they like the alternatives the community is offering. As PvE players are going to be rather annoyed that PvP players can just buy perfect gear they spend months farming for.
They usually are but I am still hoping their minds can be changed by suggestions that are overall better.
I really don't mind PvP players being able to purchase it eventhough I farmed for a long time, but it would be cooler if the items came from the players.I personally think we dont need BoP items anymore, if Housing is going to replace the long term progression in ESO, so ideally we get 4 DLC (Each DLC offer CP-grind, so theres always something to do) per year and in the meanwhile you can work on your house, totally optional though. I think though PVE side should have AP or TS kind of grind, Ive thought maybe Veteran Points, from all kind of vet-content, first thing they could add is to make Cyrodil Ranks purchasable with Veteran Points, so thats basically the next grind for PVE players and gain Skill Points.
Sorry not following you. Are you agreeing with me? Also don't see what Cyrodiil ranks has to do with the topic? Sorry if I am misunderstanding you.One thing what this game loses if they remove BoP is bragging right items. For many player BoP items are bragging right thing. I was thinking maybe they should use Leaderboards for those, like what else? You want to be top dog, prove it! You get Leaderboards Points and you can buy some unique mounts, crafting, style etc, with them, something what isnt never sold at Crown Store.
I don't agree, leaderboard position is for bragging rights. Right now there's no bragging right about having a monster set piece in my opinion and I don't see the need for it.
Agree with what? You sound like politician. You look too deep into details, at launch we didnt had nothing to do, so BoP and Monster Sets were introduced for those players who played alot so they had some goals to aim, but after 2 year, thats not the case anymore. Time to get rid off BoPs and bring another long term goal for those who play alot, like Housing.
Edited by Sausage on December 8, 2015 5:01PM0 -
Dubhliam✭✭✭✭✭
✭I am strongly against making BoP items BoE.
It would just make grinding gold more valid instead of doing actual content, and result in bored players and reduced player base.
If they are so set on making the Monster sets available to PvPers, this is my suggestion:
1. Make the NPC in Cyrodill sell Bronze, Silver and Gold Keys for AP or gold.
2. Introduce Monster set helmets in the "Rewards for the worthy" with a random trait and very rarely.Edited by Dubhliam on December 8, 2015 6:21PM2 -
Zinaroth✭✭✭✭✭
✭I am strongly against making BoP items BoE.
It would just make grinding gold more valid instead of doing actual content, and result in bored players and reduced player base.
I disagree, as mentioned in my thread I think the prospect of making gold will make more people run the dungeons instead of farming nodes or motifs or tons of mofs outside grouped PvE content to make gold.
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Dubhliam✭✭✭✭✭
✭I am strongly against making BoP items BoE.
It would just make grinding gold more valid instead of doing actual content, and result in bored players and reduced player base.
I disagree, as mentioned in my thread I think the prospect of making gold will make more people run the dungeons instead of farming nodes or motifs or tons of mofs outside grouped PvE content to make gold.
So, my blood sweat and tears from running vWGT so many times will just go to waste when all the top geared mofos start selling Molag Kena helmets to all the rich kids that have no idea behind the tactics of vWGT?
Let's just agree to disagree.
I will always be a firm believer of exclusive items.1 -
BalticBlues✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I prefer the OP's suggestion any time over ZOS' vendor solution.
A free market is always better than a planned market,
the market value of helmets/shoulders would depend on people doing the quests,
the PVE people who are broke from vMA finally had a way to make money again,
there would be no bitterness over PVP vendors with selective offers instead of PVE RNG,
there would be no helmets/shoulders in the crown store (as certainly come with a vendor...)
Edited by BalticBlues on December 8, 2015 6:59PM0 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
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Sorry not following you. Are you agreeing with me? Also don't see what Cyrodiil ranks has to do with the topic? Sorry if I am misunderstanding you.
Well, the PvP equivalent of getting the Monster sets for PvE folks is getting your Alliance Skill line high enough that you can get the desirable skills (Caltrops, Vigor, Barrier). That's what they mean.
Personally, I'd be ok with all gear other than Monster Sets/Malestrom/Master being BoE. But the fact that the monster sets are so content specific makes it very odd that they would be available outside that content.
I still don't understand why Alliance Skill lines are being brought into this discussion.
I agree with Master and Maelstrom weapons being BoP, but I don't see the point of keeping the monster sets that way when they're planning to sell them at an NPC anyway.
Just to repeat myself: Get rid of the whole idea with the NPC and make the gear BoE. Benefits both sides.
Because while they are different things, the nature of the complaint is the same:
PvP players don't want to spend hour upon hour in group dungeons farming helms (and leveling the Undaunted Skill line, which has some useful passives for them), whereas PvE players don't want to spend hour upon hour defending keeps and flipping resources in Cyrodiil to get the skills in the Alliance War tree that are useful for them.
Of course, there are those among us that enjoy both and really don't care about the Monster Helms that much and we are happy with the status quo.
Because the Monster Helms essentially signify "I killed a powerful enemy and took his head", it seems really odd to me that someone who has never been in the respective dungeon would be able to acquire that particular piece.The Moot Councillor4 -
Dubhliam✭✭✭✭✭
✭BalticBlues wrote: »I prefer the OP's suggestion any time over ZOS' vendor solution.
A free market is always better than a planned market,
the market value of helmets/shoulders would depend on people doing the quests,
the PVE people who are broke from vMA finally had a way to make money again,
there would be no bitterness over PVP vendors with selective offers instead of PVE RNG,
there would be no helmets/shoulders in the crown store (as certainly come with a vendor...)
See, this is what grinds my gears. (see what I did there?)
If only the shoulders would be BoE, I'd have no problem with that since it has some sort of a limitation to it. Meaning you can get only two pledges per day.
The helms on the other hand are farmable.
Maelstrom items BoE?! You have got to be kidding.
Monster sets in Crown store? That will be my last day in ESO.Edited by Dubhliam on December 9, 2015 10:14AM1 -
Spearshard✭✭✭✭BalticBlues wrote: »I prefer the OP's suggestion any time over ZOS' vendor solution.
A free market is always better than a planned market,
the market value of helmets/shoulders would depend on people doing the quests,
the PVE people who are broke from vMA finally had a way to make money again,
there would be no bitterness over PVP vendors with selective offers instead of PVE RNG,
there would be no helmets/shoulders in the crown store (as certainly come with a vendor...)
See, this is what grinds my gears. (see what I did there?)
If only the shoulders would be BoE, I'd have no problem with that since it has some sort of a limitation to it. Meaning you can get only two pledges per day.
The helms on the other hand are farmable.
Maelstrom items BoE?! You have got to be kidding.
Monster sets in Crown store? That will be my last day in ESO.
The problem with this view is that relying on rng is a fickle thing, exceedingly unreliable, and often leaves players feeling burnt out and frustrated because they do often obscenely high number of runs to get x item and it still doesn't happen. That's the problem with BoP. I certainly agree that masters weapons and maelatrom weapons should be BoP, but no reason the armorning sets should be. I'm going on about 30 runs in maelstrom and still can't get winterborn rings. But if it was BoE, I could spend less time being so damn frustrated check a kiosk, give some deserving person a bit of gold, round out my set and test it. If I like it, awesome! If not, it was just a bit of gold. Sticking to BoP is an outdated and artificial content extention that leads to less creativity in gear, less desire ultimately because players get burnt out. It's absurd that I gets loads of armor pieces that I have zero interest in that only get deconned when I could pass them on to someone who could make use of it.1 -
Dubhliam✭✭✭✭✭
✭Spearshard wrote: »The problem with this view is that relying on rng is a fickle thing, exceedingly unreliable, and often leaves players feeling burnt out and frustrated because they do often obscenely high number of runs to get x item and it still doesn't happen. That's the problem with BoP. I certainly agree that masters weapons and maelatrom weapons should be BoP, but no reason the armorning sets should be. I'm going on about 30 runs in maelstrom and still can't get winterborn rings. But if it was BoE, I could spend less time being so damn frustrated check a kiosk, give some deserving person a bit of gold, round out my set and test it. If I like it, awesome! If not, it was just a bit of gold. Sticking to BoP is an outdated and artificial content extention that leads to less creativity in gear, less desire ultimately because players get burnt out. It's absurd that I gets loads of armor pieces that I have zero interest in that only get deconned when I could pass them on to someone who could make use of it.
You have to look at a bigger picture and think of the future and the health of the game.
Any change that promotes gold income will eventually lead to one hell of a grind fest.
Either grinding for BoE sellable items. Or grinding mindlessly for pure gold to buy said items.
The reason they are removing VRs? To reduce grind. Not enhance it.
Grind leads to a dead korean style game. Only hardcore nolifers.1 -
Sausage✭✭✭✭✭
✭I am strongly against making BoP items BoE.
It would just make grinding gold more valid instead of doing actual content, and result in bored players and reduced player base.
I disagree, as mentioned in my thread I think the prospect of making gold will make more people run the dungeons instead of farming nodes or motifs or tons of mofs outside grouped PvE content to make gold.
So, my blood sweat and tears from running vWGT so many times will just go to waste when all the top geared mofos start selling Molag Kena helmets to all the rich kids that have no idea behind the tactics of vWGT?
Let's just agree to disagree.
I will always be a firm believer of exclusive items.
Gears will become obsolete in MMORPGs, because gear-mill is just one of the main things. This is exactly the reason why Leaderboards needs to be turned into bragging right thing. Higher you're in Leaderboards, more Leaderboards Points you get, what can be used to buy exclusive mounts, titles, emotes, polymorphs, crafting styles, maybe even hair styles, arent they gonna add barber soon. Something what is never going to be sold at Crown Store.
Btw, why vMGT tactics should be better than getting rich tactics?Edited by Sausage on December 9, 2015 11:07AM0 -
Spearshard✭✭✭✭Spearshard wrote: »The problem with this view is that relying on rng is a fickle thing, exceedingly unreliable, and often leaves players feeling burnt out and frustrated because they do often obscenely high number of runs to get x item and it still doesn't happen. That's the problem with BoP. I certainly agree that masters weapons and maelatrom weapons should be BoP, but no reason the armorning sets should be. I'm going on about 30 runs in maelstrom and still can't get winterborn rings. But if it was BoE, I could spend less time being so damn frustrated check a kiosk, give some deserving person a bit of gold, round out my set and test it. If I like it, awesome! If not, it was just a bit of gold. Sticking to BoP is an outdated and artificial content extention that leads to less creativity in gear, less desire ultimately because players get burnt out. It's absurd that I gets loads of armor pieces that I have zero interest in that only get deconned when I could pass them on to someone who could make use of it.
You have to look at a bigger picture and think of the future and the health of the game.
Any change that promotes gold income will eventually lead to one hell of a grind fest.
Either grinding for BoE sellable items. Or grinding mindlessly for pure gold to buy said items.
The reason they are removing VRs? To reduce grind. Not enhance it.
Grind leads to a dead korean style game. Only hardcore nolifers.
Except that's isn't the case, and the game itself is proof if you look at the economy since the game went live. In a free market (ok semi free since devs can adjust drop rates) Players decide the value of any given item. You can see this with motif books. At launch they were thousands each, for blue. Now they are about 200. Back before the level raise to v16, ravager gear was very desireable, a piece at gold level, usually went for about 90k (on pc). Gold isn't really a grind, it just happens incidental to playing the game. That's one thing I think zos did well, gold comes fairly steadily. And not over easily. And, if we are allowed to sell out gear like we used to, with a healthier economy we won't really need to grind for gold. The grind will ease off a bit, player frustration will drop, the game will be healthier as we can do the content we enjoy rather than banging our heads against that rng wall.1 -
BalticBlues✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭BalticBlues wrote: »I prefer the OP's suggestion any time over ZOS' vendor solution.
[...]
there would be no helmets/shoulders in the crown store (as certainly come with a vendor...)
Vendor items often land in the crown store some day. ZOS probably knows they could charge 20-50$ for a monster set, and they probably would want to make this money themselves rather than letting a certain audience buy gold for this from illegal gold sellers over the Internet.Monster sets in Crown store? That will be my last day in ESO.
Lets be honest: Selling monster sets via a vendor or the crown store is P2W.
However, selling monster sets via guilds would be not,
because prices probably would be astronomical,
considering how difficult it is to get a full set.
I know people playing for months without having a full set yet.
A vendor would be the easy P2W way. I am strongly against it.Edited by BalticBlues on December 9, 2015 11:27AM0 -
Dubhliam✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Sense of achievement (and bragging rights) vs. mindless grind....
Btw, why vWGT tactics should be better than getting rich tactics?
No it won't.Spearshard wrote: »... The grind will ease off a bit, ...
People will get bored and go play Dark Souls or whatever.Spearshard wrote: »... player frustration will drop, the game will be healthier as we can do the content we enjoy rather than banging our heads against that rng wall.1 -
Sausage✭✭✭✭✭
✭How about if people won Monster Set skins via Leaderboards, that should give massive e-peen.
Sense of achievement (and bragging rights) vs. mindless grind....
Btw, why vWGT tactics should be better than getting rich tactics?
No it won't.Spearshard wrote: »... The grind will ease off a bit, ...
People will get bored and go play Dark Souls or whatever.Spearshard wrote: »... player frustration will drop, the game will be healthier as we can do the content we enjoy rather than banging our heads against that rng wall.
I like to sell stuff and it not so easy as one might thing, you need to know what to sell and what price.Edited by Sausage on December 9, 2015 11:34AM0 -
Merlight✭✭✭✭✭@Zinaroth way - flip a few flags in item database and done
@ZOS way - touch landscape, outfit an NPC vendor, balance prices, write code for spawning on set days and hope it works
Maybe ZOS came up with this in an attempt to fulfill their promise there'd be stuff to spend AP on. Well, you added motifs and soon will be bumping existing Cyrodiil goods to VR16, right? Also Forward Camps are going to be a nice AP sink.
EU ‣ Wabbajack nostalgic ‣ Blackwater Blade defender ‣ Kyne wanderer
The offspring of the root of all evil in ESO by DeanTheCat
Why ESO needs a monthly subscription
When an MMO is designed around a revenue model rather than around fun, it doesn’t have a long-term future. ― Richard A. Bartle
Their idea of transparent, at least when it comes to communication, bears a striking resemblance to a block of coal. ― lordrichter
... in the balance of power between the accountants and marketing types against the artists, developers and those who generally want to build and run a good game then that balance needs to always be in favour of the latter - because the former will drag the game into the ground for every last bean they can squeeze out of it. ― Santie Claws0 -
Dubhliam✭✭✭✭✭
✭Okay, so...
At the time of fast food restaurants, viral videos, insta celebrities... people forget about that ONE true factor of a happy life and/or gaming:
TIME.
The formula to a happy community is not to give everything away.
So, let's imagine they DO make all those things BoE.
A guy that stands in [insert your HUB here] all day trading Rubedite Ingots for Ancestor Silk and trades Dreugh Vax for Tempering Alloys (in other words "reseller") is sitting on top of a ****ton of gold for doing essentially nothing and has 0 contribution to the game.
Then in exactly 5 minutes after the patch goes live he has ALL possible helmets and shoulders in divines and/or infused.
Having gold should not be a measure of achievement in this game (or any game for that matter).
Investing time and effort however, should.
If you say getting bad traits is demotivating you, what happens when you get your hands to all the gear you want instantly?
Where is your motivation to play then tell me?
Edited by Dubhliam on December 9, 2015 12:05PM1 -
Merlight✭✭✭✭✭
Will divines/infused increase his profit margin while he stands in [insert your HUB here] for the rest of the day?Then in exactly 5 minutes after the patch goes live he has ALL possible helmets and shoulders in divines and/or infused.
EU ‣ Wabbajack nostalgic ‣ Blackwater Blade defender ‣ Kyne wanderer
The offspring of the root of all evil in ESO by DeanTheCat
Why ESO needs a monthly subscription
When an MMO is designed around a revenue model rather than around fun, it doesn’t have a long-term future. ― Richard A. Bartle
Their idea of transparent, at least when it comes to communication, bears a striking resemblance to a block of coal. ― lordrichter
... in the balance of power between the accountants and marketing types against the artists, developers and those who generally want to build and run a good game then that balance needs to always be in favour of the latter - because the former will drag the game into the ground for every last bean they can squeeze out of it. ― Santie Claws0 -
Sausage✭✭✭✭✭
✭Investing time and effort however, should.
If you say getting bad traits is demotivating you, what happens when you get your hands to all the gear you want instantly?
Where is your motivation to play then tell me?
There was guys with 2000 CPs, and now they have 501, and they didnt whine at all. Ive no idea why gears always bring out the worst of us. Like Ive said many time before, gears should always be minor thing in MMORPGs, only bad things comes from them.Edited by Sausage on December 9, 2015 12:53PM1
