An alternative suggestion to the PvP/PvE gear discussion!

Zinaroth

Kyoma wrote: »

Hmmm, this is actually very interesting. I too believe changing the dropped sets to BoE would be a better solution all-round than this NPC they'll be adding. And lets not forget all pvpers are at the mercy of ZOS with regards to the traits they'll be able to get.

With regards to the current AP-to-Gold and Akaviri, well, that's not really a good source of income for pvpers as those motifs are rather cheap and will only get cheaper. But as you mentioned, with the next DLC all the pvp sets are said to be bumped to v16 alot of previously very interesting setups might make a return and bring life into the pvp market.

All in all I can see a use for this NPC but I still very much hope they'll change alot of the current BoP stuff because it is kinda getting out of control.

Thanks for your input.

I only see a use for this NPC in terms of being able to buy the Monster sets directly for AP. I can understand why PvPers think it's a hazzle having to translate AP into Gold to get a hold of them if we do it my way, but it's a hazzle they would have to overcome, and a small one compared to the alternative, in my opinion anyway.

Ra'Shtar

I agree that we should be able to buy pvp gear with currency BUT not gold, rewards of the worthy can drop very expensive gear so selling pvp gear with gold would be a mistake because pvpers also have access to this currency very easily so my suggestion would be creating a new type of currency that you get by killing bosses inside dungeons (example all bosses drop 30 undaunted coins but the last boss drops 200 ).

Gold is not appropriate for this because is an universal currency that every player has easy access to therefor making a new currency like Undaunted Coins would be better for this situation, now that pvpers won't be forced to do dungeons to buy said monster helmets carebears shouldn't be forced to do pvp to obtain pvp gear either and it will open a new world where RNG no longer makes you pull your hair because you will have a token system to obtain said items, forcing a player to do a dungeon if they don't enjoy it to obtain an item is bad business having a token system instead is better because you know the number of dungeons you have to do to obtain what you want and it wont force anyone to do a dungeon they despise.

Adding more on this dungeons sets not only monster helmets should be buy able via Alliance Point (sets like the one from WGT, forcing players to do content they don't enjoy its not good like i have said before) that way we can buy sets like Shield Breaker with our pve curency and they can buy or pve sets with their pvp currency.

Zinaroth

Ra'Shtar wrote: »

I agree that we should be able to buy pvp gear with currency BUT not gold, rewards of the worthy can drop very expensive gear so selling pvp gear with gold would be a mistake because pvpers also have access to this currency very easily so my suggestion would be creating a new type of currency that you get by killing bosses inside dungeons (example all bosses drop 30 undaunted coins but the last boss drops 200 ).

Gold is not appropriate for this because is an universal currency that every player has easy access to therefor making a new currency like Undaunted Coins would be better for this situation, now that pvpers won't be forced to do dungeons to buy said monster helmets carebears shouldn't be forced to do pvp to obtain pvp gear either and it will open a new world where RNG no longer makes you pull your hair because you will have a token system to obtain said items, forcing a player to do a dungeon if they don't enjoy it to obtain an item is bad business having a token system instead is better because you know the number of dungeons you have to do to obtain what you want and it wont force anyone to do a dungeon they despise.

Adding more on this dungeons sets not only monster helmets should be buy able via Alliance Point (sets like the one from WGT, forcing players to do content they don't enjoy its not good like i have said before) that way we can buy sets like Shield Breaker with our pve curency and they can buy or pve sets with their pvp currency.

I could totally be onboard with a token system, works great in other MMOs.

I don't agree with PvE gear being purchasable with alliance points, just like I don't think alliance skill lines should be obtainable through PvE content. Keep stuff within their right element.

A token system along with making items BoE would be a great step towards alleviating RNG for all players, both PvEers and PvPers.

This new merchant is such a bad developement and also a bad omen for what is to come in the future for the game.

Dexter411

"The reason they are adding this NPC is to allow PvPers the ability to get the sets without being forced to PvE. I totally understand the need and I think they should be able to, just like PvEers can buy PvP gear for gold."
First of, what sets? Every set costs AP. Glyphs AP. Feel free to correct me but i do not remember any decend PvE on Vr14 or up for gold, unless it is in IC which i do not have.
I agree with more unique items avaliable for sell. But not Maelstrom Arena weapons like some suggested. For does weapons you need to earn
P.S. You still need to do PvP if you want Vigor and Caltrops, which are very useful for PvE. It is just sad.
Vigor-best selfheal for stam builds
Caltrops- one of the best Aoe DoT for stam build

Purdomination33

Many discussions on this forum relate back to the top 5%-10% of players (from a time invested perspective). The high end bind on pickup items such as the undaunted sets or arena/trial items are next to impossible to obtain if you do not have 30-40 hours per week to sink into this game. Maybe it's simply the nature of the beast with MMORPG games. HUGE amounts of time are required to compete at any reasonable level in the PvP world.

I am for a FREE AND OPEN ECONOMY. For the majority of us our time is valuable. If you want to sell undaunted items then you should be able to do so. After all, YOU put your own time into acquiring the items though you have no direct control over the specific item you obtain. In my world, I can rarely commit to sitting down for 'x' amount of time to put together a group (the whole 'hold on, i just need to buy soul gems, hold on I need to grab a drink, hold on just need to change my armor, etc.), learn the mechanics of a Vet Dungeon and somehow get through it in one sitting. Others are able to do so which is well and good for them. But this should not be the ONLY way to obtain a certain item.

I may not be able to grind multiple hours in one sitting however over a period of months I can hodge-podge together enough gold to maybe purchase 2 undaunted items. All it is is a different means to the same end, no fundamental difference. On one end, the seller gets good use out of an item he doesn't need. On the other, I am able to purchase an item using my own time and going about it in a way plausible to my lifestyle. Win-Win!

Either way a free and open economy works. Look around you. We all spend countless hours playing make believe Knights vs Sorcer's with Elves and weird cat creatures. Not sure Stalin would have been too fond of his Soviets doing the same.

Zinaroth

Dexter411 wrote: »

"The reason they are adding this NPC is to allow PvPers the ability to get the sets without being forced to PvE. I totally understand the need and I think they should be able to, just like PvEers can buy PvP gear for gold."
First of, what sets? Every set costs AP. Glyphs AP. Feel free to correct me but i do not remember any decend PvE on Vr14 or up for gold, unless it is in IC which i do not have.
I agree with more unique items avaliable for sell. But not Maelstrom Arena weapons like some suggested. For does weapons you need to earn
P.S. You still need to do PvP if you want Vigor and Caltrops, which are very useful for PvE. It is just sad.
Vigor-best selfheal for stam builds
Caltrops- one of the best Aoe DoT for stam build

Everything purchasable with AP can be sold through stores for gold, both materials and the gear since it's BoE, that's what I was referring to.

Agree on Maelstrom Weapons not becoming BoE, those need to remain BoP.

I think it's okay that I have to do PvP if I want those skills, just like I think it's okay that PvPers need to do PvE to get the gear from there. But an even better solution would be to make most gear that drops BoE and encourage the free market. Not a big fan of allowing rewards to be earned outside its native content.

Purdomination33 wrote: »

Many discussions on this forum relate back to the top 5%-10% of players (from a time invested perspective). The high end bind on pickup items such as the undaunted sets or arena/trial items are next to impossible to obtain if you do not have 30-40 hours per week to sink into this game. Maybe it's simply the nature of the beast with MMORPG games. HUGE amounts of time are required to compete at any reasonable level in the PvP world.

I am for a FREE AND OPEN ECONOMY. For the majority of us our time is valuable. If you want to sell undaunted items then you should be able to do so. After all, YOU put your own time into acquiring the items though you have no direct control over the specific item you obtain. In my world, I can rarely commit to sitting down for 'x' amount of time to put together a group (the whole 'hold on, i just need to buy soul gems, hold on I need to grab a drink, hold on just need to change my armor, etc.), learn the mechanics of a Vet Dungeon and somehow get through it in one sitting. Others are able to do so which is well and good for them. But this should not be the ONLY way to obtain a certain item.

I may not be able to grind multiple hours in one sitting however over a period of months I can hodge-podge together enough gold to maybe purchase 2 undaunted items. All it is is a different means to the same end, no fundamental difference. On one end, the seller gets good use out of an item he doesn't need. On the other, I am able to purchase an item using my own time and going about it in a way plausible to my lifestyle. Win-Win!

Either way a free and open economy works. Look around you. We all spend countless hours playing make believe Knights vs Sorcer's with Elves and weird cat creatures. Not sure Stalin would have been too fond of his Soviets doing the same.

Completely agree and my point exactly.

Zinaroth

Any other opinions/suggestion/ideas on the topic?
Feel free to agree or disagree as long as it is constructive and argumented.

Kas

imho the original pvp sets had the best idea (and just didn't work because they weren't good enough and lacked impen trait which was far too god at the time):
A set bonus that only works for pvp: deal more damage against players / recieve less damage from players AoE / interaction with siege, sneaking, etc

Make new PvP sets so good that you want to use THEM for PvP, make them *** in PvE by not applying there. Add enough different sets to still have some kind of build diversity.

Imho such a split even adds to the progression possibilities in the game: CPoint progression is overall (XP in PvP still needs buffs badly), gear progression is split between PvP and PvE and if you like to do both at the highest level, you have to go through both.

Zinaroth

Kas wrote: »

imho the original pvp sets had the best idea (and just didn't work because they weren't good enough and lacked impen trait which was far too god at the time):
A set bonus that only works for pvp: deal more damage against players / recieve less damage from players AoE / interaction with siege, sneaking, etc

Make new PvP sets so good that you want to use THEM for PvP, make them *** in PvE by not applying there. Add enough different sets to still have some kind of build diversity.

Imho such a split even adds to the progression possibilities in the game: CPoint progression is overall (XP in PvP still needs buffs badly), gear progression is split between PvP and PvE and if you like to do both at the highest level, you have to go through both.

I disagree. I don't want a game with gear and stat seperation between PvE and PvP, that is what killed WoW for me. The fact that you could achieve anything you wanted from a single activity. I think it's a good think that there things to be desired and work for in both PvE and PvP no matter which one you prefer.

But to get back on topic; did you read my original post? What's your thoughs on that?

wazzz56

I am predominately a PVP'r but have no problem grinding dungeons for gear if I want it...Same as the grind for assault rank, tedious but if you want the skills, you need to put the work in.

As far as I am concerned, the current model does one thing, force you to play all aspects of the game if you want the top gear and skills, which I have no problem with.

Zinaroth

wazzz56 wrote: »

I am predominately a PVP'r but have no problem grinding dungeons for gear if I want it...Same as the grind for assault rank, tedious but if you want the skills, you need to put the work in.

As far as I am concerned, the current model does one thing, force you to play all aspects of the game if you want the top gear and skills, which I have no problem with.

What would you say to making more gear BoE to encourage a free market? For example making gear sets from trials and dungeons BoE including the Undaunted sets so PvPers could buy them just like PvEers can buy the gear from PvP?
- The exception would be Maelstrom and Master weapons to keep something unique from the dungeons.

wazzz56

Zinaroth wrote: »

wazzz56 wrote: »

I am predominately a PVP'r but have no problem grinding dungeons for gear if I want it...Same as the grind for assault rank, tedious but if you want the skills, you need to put the work in.

As far as I am concerned, the current model does one thing, force you to play all aspects of the game if you want the top gear and skills, which I have no problem with.

What would you say to making more gear BoE to encourage a free market? For example making gear sets from trials and dungeons BoE including the Undaunted sets so PvPers could buy them just like PvEers can buy the gear from PvP?
- The exception would be Maelstrom and Master weapons to keep something unique from the dungeons.

To some extent I would be ok with it, I just like the idea of having to take part in both aspects of the game in order to fully reach potential...so maybe make shoulders, not helms BOE. That way dungeons still have meaning

Rioht

As someone who was a big advocate for giving pvp'ers some opportunity to get pve gear, I fully agree that there should be opportunity for any player to get any gear they want, solely by playing the game and enjoying it.. Not being forced to play some specific piece of content they may hate.

I brought this solution up numerous times, and maybe I'll have to make another post about it.

The concept is this.

1.) Let any piece of gear drop at anytime from any mob/chest. With restrictions for really rare rewards such as masters weps, vMA weps.

2.) Make sure that there is a very small chance to get these items, maybe 1/100 mobs will drop a set from the global set pool. Even then you will only get a random set out of the dozens and dozens of sets.

3.) Make these sets found BoE, so that you can trade them with other players.

4.) Make sure that the current system of content specific set drops remains. If you want overwhelming set, you can do WGT and have a much higher chance of finding that set piece OR you can play other activities and have a small chance of finding that item.

This system will allow players to do the activities they enjoy, and still have the opportunity to find the sets they want, or over time find enough pieces of other sets they can trade for the ones they want.

Players can still farm the content that gives the highest chance of giving that item.

Players can still play pve/pvp or whatever they want, and not feel like they are missing out on building their character.

Zinaroth

Rioht wrote: »

As someone who was a big advocate for giving pvp'ers some opportunity to get pve gear, I fully agree that there should be opportunity for any player to get any gear they want, solely by playing the game and enjoying it.. Not being forced to play some specific piece of content they may hate.

I brought this solution up numerous times, and maybe I'll have to make another post about it.

The concept is this.

1.) Let any piece of gear drop at anytime from any mob/chest. With restrictions for really rare rewards such as masters weps, vMA weps.

2.) Make sure that there is a very small chance to get these items, maybe 1/100 mobs will drop a set from the global set pool. Even then you will only get a random set out of the dozens and dozens of sets.

3.) Make these sets found BoE, so that you can trade them with other players.

4.) Make sure that the current system of content specific set drops remains. If you want overwhelming set, you can do WGT and have a much higher chance of finding that set piece OR you can play other activities and have a small chance of finding that item.

This system will allow players to do the activities they enjoy, and still have the opportunity to find the sets they want, or over time find enough pieces of other sets they can trade for the ones they want.

Players can still farm the content that gives the highest chance of giving that item.

Players can still play pve/pvp or whatever they want, and not feel like they are missing out on building their character.

I think this will only make mob grinding even more popular. I don't necissarily agree with people being able to obtain what they want by playing how they want. Sometimes the reward is in doing something you hate but then getting what you need. The argument that every single aspect has to be "fun" for the player is a fallacy. If doing something annoying or tideous will make your character able to do better at something you enjoy then I think it's okay that you're sometimes "forced" to do some content you might not think is the best. Because in the end, this is better for the health of the game. Giving out gear from everything in the game is not a proper solution to the issue in my opinion.

I do think you should be rewarded for your play time though, and the universal currency is gold. So PvPers get rewarded with mails and AP, where PvEers currently get rewarded with drops. Problem being that unless you actually farm stuff in PvE to save up gold, you end up spending more money on repairs than you get. Which is one of the reason for making some gear in PvE to BoE. So yes to rewarding people for playing, yes to people being able to obtain items eventhough they didn't farm the dungeons, but no to giving out the same stuff across the entire game.

Dubhliam

wazzz56 wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

wazzz56 wrote: »

I am predominately a PVP'r but have no problem grinding dungeons for gear if I want it...Same as the grind for assault rank, tedious but if you want the skills, you need to put the work in.

As far as I am concerned, the current model does one thing, force you to play all aspects of the game if you want the top gear and skills, which I have no problem with.

What would you say to making more gear BoE to encourage a free market? For example making gear sets from trials and dungeons BoE including the Undaunted sets so PvPers could buy them just like PvEers can buy the gear from PvP?
- The exception would be Maelstrom and Master weapons to keep something unique from the dungeons.

To some extent I would be ok with it, I just like the idea of having to take part in both aspects of the game in order to fully reach potential...so maybe make shoulders, not helms BOE. That way dungeons still have meaning

YES!

@Rioht
NO!

Zinaroth

Seems like this won't be happening. I am basing that conclusion on two things:

MMORPG.com interview:
mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/821/feature/10506/Elder-Scrolls-Online-More-on-the-Thieves-Guild-DLC-with-Rich-Lambert.html
MMORPG: What sorts of updates will we see to Cyrodiil with this DLC?
Rich Lambert: We’re hard at work on improving the overall performance in Cyrodiil so there are a number of behind the scenes server and data performance improvements going in. In addition to the performance improvements, there’s a new non-champion point campaign as well as a new traveling vendor who you will be able to purchase monster mask sets from with AP or Gold (dungeon sets).

ESO Live 15/1:
twitch.tv/zenimaxonlinestudios/v/35627537
Gina Bruno: We've seen some people thinking that the ingame economy is suffering a bit since so many of the items are bind on pickup and just wondering if we're doing anything to sort of breathe some new life into the ingame ecnonomy?
Matt Firo: Yeah… I mean that's something that we always take in mind. We really want to… We want to update things so that crafters and everything can actually do content along with the other people. Keep it up to date. We don't want to get in a situation where players can out-level things or we change a system and then suddenly can't do things that you used to do. So... We will definately keep that in mind.

Also on a completely different note, I am laughing out loud at that answer. Talk about giving a non-sensical, unrelated and completely evasive answer to a legitimate question. Well played Matt Führer, ehm sorry, Firor.