frozywozy wrote: »

Huckdabuck wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Huckdabuck wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Huckdabuck wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

This will be short and sweet.. or not

First of, if you except to take a keep with 40players inside, you should die. You took too much time, you didn't cover the posterns as you sieged the inner and you let people reinforced the keep.

Some of us don't like PvDooring empty keeps. Some of us like having a good fight.

Like I said multiple times already, this is not about pvedooring an empty keep. This is about using strategies to hit where the enemy does't expect you to hit. If you want to hit a keep well defended, you should have a really hard time to get it.

But this really kind of hits home for me where you're coming from. I can take a keep right now from 50 people. You don't like that, you don't think i should be able to. Not sure how to argue you off that.

I'm not saying that I don't like the fact that you can take a keep from 50 people. I'm saying that I don't like the fact that you can take it even though there is massive sieges deployed and even though you don't even have to actually focus siege operators down, you simply have to push in, spam purges, aoes, smart heals and barriers.

Secondly, I know you cannot spread out when you get inside an inner breach, the reason why my whole explanation was reffering to the outter breach. If people are properly setted up inside an inner, you should have to take other walls down to clear it. The way people go right now, they push all the way up the stairs under oil showers, meatbags, fire balistas and as they come on top of the stairs, they get bombed, shotted by fire balistas, meatbags again, and yet they manage to totally destroy everything in their path because of the power of a 24men group, of massive barriers, purges, smart healing and aoe cap. This should not be a thing.

Ball groups should have to slowly make their way up the stairs, killing a few at a time, and timing their movements between each siege volley. They should assign specific roles into their group to assasinate and focus on siege operators. This is not what's happening right now. Ball groups push like a bull and no matter what's in front of them, they will destroy it. This is going to stop now. Ball groups will have to be careful before pushing inside an inner.

Firstly, people don't just "push all the way up the stairs under oil showers, meatbags, fire balistas and as they come on top of the stairs, they get bombed, shotted by fire balistas, meatbags again, and yet they manage to totally destroy everything in their path". Good groups do this against randoms or bad groups. Groups get MELTED doing this all the time. Hell, even my dreaded "24-boogyman group" gets melted doing this sometimes. Why? Because when a ton of siege is going off on you and you're getting bombed and trying to sustain and push through it all, it really hurts and can completely wipe you out.

Second, Assassinating doesn't work. It's a stupid idea in today's game. It is, Frozn. Say i get one guy, who *somehow* manages to get past Caltrops, mines, oils, unpurgable snares and heal debuffs, alllllllll the way up to the top and manages to kill ONE guy on ONE siege. What than? He's dead at that point, and the man on siege is instantly replaced or instantly rezzed. Nothign was accomplished. It is a stupid idea and you should know better.

I feel like in the end, you're just too far behind on the current meta to understand how a group works or how to stop it. If you think a group can just push into anything and win, you're flat out blind. Perhaps willfully so. Because I know you've been there when VE runs, I've seen you there some of those times we push at a keep, wipe in a keep maybe 6-7 times before we take it. We can't just run into it and mindlessly crush everything, it takes A LOT of work to take a well-defended keep, and often we will fail if resistance is that strong. Why don't you go talk to people from Haxus or GoS, groups that have successfully defended keeps from me with fewer or even numbers? Go see what they've got going on that you're missing instead of just throwing your hands up, calling ball groups invincible and doubling down on that siege spec.

When I reffer to people focusing on siege operators, there is two approaches and you mixed them both in your explanations. First one is when you send vampire nightblades to deal with people dropping oil on the catwalk. Ask Oniric if you don't believe me, we've done it plenty of times and it works like a charm. Second approach is to have one hand shield tanks in your setup who charge siege operators as you push them and distract them to make sure they don't use their siege again. Talcyndl can talk to you about it. He has always been great at doing such a role.

Again, if there is 40 inside, you simply screwed your siege and let too many reinforced the inner. If you push that inner anyway and expect to survive, you're the one to blame.

Btw and just to make it clear for everybody else, because I know you're aware of my intentions and my opinion on the siege buffs. I don't agree about the changes as they proposed them. I would like oil catapult debuff to be removed with charging maneuver. I would like meatbag healing debuff to be purged but only with synergies and player interraction. Finally and not the least, I would like oil catapult and lightning balista stamina/magicka damage to be tuned down to 2k.

And again with this silly thing about how I shouldn't be able to take a keep against 40 people.

If my group, one of the best in the game, can't take a keep against 40 people how do you think a faction is going to react, Frozn? I'll tell you what happens next, they'll bring a BIGGER ZERG. They're not going to just throw up their hands and go "well they got 40 people in there, call it a day," they'll pound zone and bring the entire faction there because THAT IS HOW YOU WANT IT. You want to be invincible in your keep, safe from the dreaded "ball group" and so you're going to get bigger and bigger zergs piling up. And I though that was what we wanted to avoid, I didn't realize we were trying to create bigger incentives to zerg.

So at the end of it, for all your talk of getting better or spreading out, the core of it comes down to that you think once you have a well-defended inner you're good. You're done, I'm screwed. That's your balance. So this isn't about groups "learning to spread out" or "getting better at avoiding red" or (my favorite) "sending in the vampire assassins!" it's just about you not dying because a good group showed up to take your keep.

That's just silly, man.

If you decide to push a well defended keep, you should have near of no chance to win the fight. This also incentive people to spread out and to hit deeper in enemy territory to unstack people from the defending posture. New forward camps are going to help that alot and I'm looking forward into it.

Once again and as alot of people have been telling you. It's not because people disagree with you that they are ignorant. Your arrogance is aggravating so I'm simply gonna let it go, once again.

How about final emp keeps? I mean if that's the case then we should still have the 1st emperors of the campaigns still seating firmly as emperor.

I saw that one coming and I almost answered it in my last post. You should have to make the faction pick between defending his final emp keep or their scrolls by pushing and opening their gates.

Ok......they choose the final emp keep and fortify.....every other keep/scroll is lost. Now what? They are dug in and never coming out......guess we still have the original emps then in your view?

Exactly. And the original emps sit on their final emp keep while the two other factions win the war. I'm satisfied.

Oh now I see.....you still think people care about scores. Most folks I know haven't cared about the scoreboard since Wabbajack. Objectives...yes. Scoreboard....no. Also, you never win the war....it's eternal until the servers go offline.

No wonder you guys can't understand that I spend my APs to actually buy sieges since you don't care about winning the campaign.. and the scoreboard. Well most of EP guilds remaining do care to play the game the way it was intended.

If you don't like it, you're free to do whatever you like. But in the end the designers are going to put changes to favor people who wanna win the war. Not people who want to simply kill CoD style.

Jules wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Huckdabuck wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Huckdabuck wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Huckdabuck wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

This will be short and sweet.. or not

First of, if you except to take a keep with 40players inside, you should die. You took too much time, you didn't cover the posterns as you sieged the inner and you let people reinforced the keep.

Some of us don't like PvDooring empty keeps. Some of us like having a good fight.

Like I said multiple times already, this is not about pvedooring an empty keep. This is about using strategies to hit where the enemy does't expect you to hit. If you want to hit a keep well defended, you should have a really hard time to get it.

But this really kind of hits home for me where you're coming from. I can take a keep right now from 50 people. You don't like that, you don't think i should be able to. Not sure how to argue you off that.

I'm not saying that I don't like the fact that you can take a keep from 50 people. I'm saying that I don't like the fact that you can take it even though there is massive sieges deployed and even though you don't even have to actually focus siege operators down, you simply have to push in, spam purges, aoes, smart heals and barriers.

Secondly, I know you cannot spread out when you get inside an inner breach, the reason why my whole explanation was reffering to the outter breach. If people are properly setted up inside an inner, you should have to take other walls down to clear it. The way people go right now, they push all the way up the stairs under oil showers, meatbags, fire balistas and as they come on top of the stairs, they get bombed, shotted by fire balistas, meatbags again, and yet they manage to totally destroy everything in their path because of the power of a 24men group, of massive barriers, purges, smart healing and aoe cap. This should not be a thing.

Ball groups should have to slowly make their way up the stairs, killing a few at a time, and timing their movements between each siege volley. They should assign specific roles into their group to assasinate and focus on siege operators. This is not what's happening right now. Ball groups push like a bull and no matter what's in front of them, they will destroy it. This is going to stop now. Ball groups will have to be careful before pushing inside an inner.

Firstly, people don't just "push all the way up the stairs under oil showers, meatbags, fire balistas and as they come on top of the stairs, they get bombed, shotted by fire balistas, meatbags again, and yet they manage to totally destroy everything in their path". Good groups do this against randoms or bad groups. Groups get MELTED doing this all the time. Hell, even my dreaded "24-boogyman group" gets melted doing this sometimes. Why? Because when a ton of siege is going off on you and you're getting bombed and trying to sustain and push through it all, it really hurts and can completely wipe you out.

Second, Assassinating doesn't work. It's a stupid idea in today's game. It is, Frozn. Say i get one guy, who *somehow* manages to get past Caltrops, mines, oils, unpurgable snares and heal debuffs, alllllllll the way up to the top and manages to kill ONE guy on ONE siege. What than? He's dead at that point, and the man on siege is instantly replaced or instantly rezzed. Nothign was accomplished. It is a stupid idea and you should know better.

I feel like in the end, you're just too far behind on the current meta to understand how a group works or how to stop it. If you think a group can just push into anything and win, you're flat out blind. Perhaps willfully so. Because I know you've been there when VE runs, I've seen you there some of those times we push at a keep, wipe in a keep maybe 6-7 times before we take it. We can't just run into it and mindlessly crush everything, it takes A LOT of work to take a well-defended keep, and often we will fail if resistance is that strong. Why don't you go talk to people from Haxus or GoS, groups that have successfully defended keeps from me with fewer or even numbers? Go see what they've got going on that you're missing instead of just throwing your hands up, calling ball groups invincible and doubling down on that siege spec.

When I reffer to people focusing on siege operators, there is two approaches and you mixed them both in your explanations. First one is when you send vampire nightblades to deal with people dropping oil on the catwalk. Ask Oniric if you don't believe me, we've done it plenty of times and it works like a charm. Second approach is to have one hand shield tanks in your setup who charge siege operators as you push them and distract them to make sure they don't use their siege again. Talcyndl can talk to you about it. He has always been great at doing such a role.

Again, if there is 40 inside, you simply screwed your siege and let too many reinforced the inner. If you push that inner anyway and expect to survive, you're the one to blame.

Btw and just to make it clear for everybody else, because I know you're aware of my intentions and my opinion on the siege buffs. I don't agree about the changes as they proposed them. I would like oil catapult debuff to be removed with charging maneuver. I would like meatbag healing debuff to be purged but only with synergies and player interraction. Finally and not the least, I would like oil catapult and lightning balista stamina/magicka damage to be tuned down to 2k.

And again with this silly thing about how I shouldn't be able to take a keep against 40 people.

If my group, one of the best in the game, can't take a keep against 40 people how do you think a faction is going to react, Frozn? I'll tell you what happens next, they'll bring a BIGGER ZERG. They're not going to just throw up their hands and go "well they got 40 people in there, call it a day," they'll pound zone and bring the entire faction there because THAT IS HOW YOU WANT IT. You want to be invincible in your keep, safe from the dreaded "ball group" and so you're going to get bigger and bigger zergs piling up. And I though that was what we wanted to avoid, I didn't realize we were trying to create bigger incentives to zerg.

So at the end of it, for all your talk of getting better or spreading out, the core of it comes down to that you think once you have a well-defended inner you're good. You're done, I'm screwed. That's your balance. So this isn't about groups "learning to spread out" or "getting better at avoiding red" or (my favorite) "sending in the vampire assassins!" it's just about you not dying because a good group showed up to take your keep.

That's just silly, man.

If you decide to push a well defended keep, you should have near of no chance to win the fight. This also incentive people to spread out and to hit deeper in enemy territory to unstack people from the defending posture. New forward camps are going to help that alot and I'm looking forward into it.

Once again and as alot of people have been telling you. It's not because people disagree with you that they are ignorant. Your arrogance is aggravating so I'm simply gonna let it go, once again.

How about final emp keeps? I mean if that's the case then we should still have the 1st emperors of the campaigns still seating firmly as emperor.

I saw that one coming and I almost answered it in my last post. You should have to make the faction pick between defending his final emp keep or their scrolls by pushing and opening their gates.

Ok......they choose the final emp keep and fortify.....every other keep/scroll is lost. Now what? They are dug in and never coming out......guess we still have the original emps then in your view?

Exactly. And the original emps sit on their final emp keep while the two other factions win the war. I'm satisfied.

Oh now I see.....you still think people care about scores. Most folks I know haven't cared about the scoreboard since Wabbajack. Objectives...yes. Scoreboard....no. Also, you never win the war....it's eternal until the servers go offline.

No wonder you guys can't understand that I spend my APs to actually buy sieges since you don't care about winning the campaign.. and the scoreboard. Well most of EP guilds remaining do care to play the game the way it was intended.

If you don't like it, you're free to do whatever you like. But in the end the designers are going to put changes to favor people who wanna win the war. Not people who want to simply kill CoD style.

rofl. You arent saying that with a straight face are you? the MAJORITY of Ep organized groups prefer AP farming. you can see it every night. Faragyl farm anyone? lol. you can see it everynight.

once Meth gets empororship the only thing they care about is Emp group AP farming.

Weren't you in nexus? What's with all the hate now that you moved AD?

Darnathian wrote: »

Huckdabuck wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Huckdabuck wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

This will be short and sweet.. or not

First of, if you except to take a keep with 40players inside, you should die. You took too much time, you didn't cover the posterns as you sieged the inner and you let people reinforced the keep.

Some of us don't like PvDooring empty keeps. Some of us like having a good fight.

Like I said multiple times already, this is not about pvedooring an empty keep. This is about using strategies to hit where the enemy does't expect you to hit. If you want to hit a keep well defended, you should have a really hard time to get it.

But this really kind of hits home for me where you're coming from. I can take a keep right now from 50 people. You don't like that, you don't think i should be able to. Not sure how to argue you off that.

I'm not saying that I don't like the fact that you can take a keep from 50 people. I'm saying that I don't like the fact that you can take it even though there is massive sieges deployed and even though you don't even have to actually focus siege operators down, you simply have to push in, spam purges, aoes, smart heals and barriers.

Secondly, I know you cannot spread out when you get inside an inner breach, the reason why my whole explanation was reffering to the outter breach. If people are properly setted up inside an inner, you should have to take other walls down to clear it. The way people go right now, they push all the way up the stairs under oil showers, meatbags, fire balistas and as they come on top of the stairs, they get bombed, shotted by fire balistas, meatbags again, and yet they manage to totally destroy everything in their path because of the power of a 24men group, of massive barriers, purges, smart healing and aoe cap. This should not be a thing.

Ball groups should have to slowly make their way up the stairs, killing a few at a time, and timing their movements between each siege volley. They should assign specific roles into their group to assasinate and focus on siege operators. This is not what's happening right now. Ball groups push like a bull and no matter what's in front of them, they will destroy it. This is going to stop now. Ball groups will have to be careful before pushing inside an inner.

Firstly, people don't just "push all the way up the stairs under oil showers, meatbags, fire balistas and as they come on top of the stairs, they get bombed, shotted by fire balistas, meatbags again, and yet they manage to totally destroy everything in their path". Good groups do this against randoms or bad groups. Groups get MELTED doing this all the time. Hell, even my dreaded "24-boogyman group" gets melted doing this sometimes. Why? Because when a ton of siege is going off on you and you're getting bombed and trying to sustain and push through it all, it really hurts and can completely wipe you out.

Second, Assassinating doesn't work. It's a stupid idea in today's game. It is, Frozn. Say i get one guy, who *somehow* manages to get past Caltrops, mines, oils, unpurgable snares and heal debuffs, alllllllll the way up to the top and manages to kill ONE guy on ONE siege. What than? He's dead at that point, and the man on siege is instantly replaced or instantly rezzed. Nothign was accomplished. It is a stupid idea and you should know better.

I feel like in the end, you're just too far behind on the current meta to understand how a group works or how to stop it. If you think a group can just push into anything and win, you're flat out blind. Perhaps willfully so. Because I know you've been there when VE runs, I've seen you there some of those times we push at a keep, wipe in a keep maybe 6-7 times before we take it. We can't just run into it and mindlessly crush everything, it takes A LOT of work to take a well-defended keep, and often we will fail if resistance is that strong. Why don't you go talk to people from Haxus or GoS, groups that have successfully defended keeps from me with fewer or even numbers? Go see what they've got going on that you're missing instead of just throwing your hands up, calling ball groups invincible and doubling down on that siege spec.

When I reffer to people focusing on siege operators, there is two approaches and you mixed them both in your explanations. First one is when you send vampire nightblades to deal with people dropping oil on the catwalk. Ask Oniric if you don't believe me, we've done it plenty of times and it works like a charm. Second approach is to have one hand shield tanks in your setup who charge siege operators as you push them and distract them to make sure they don't use their siege again. Talcyndl can talk to you about it. He has always been great at doing such a role.

Again, if there is 40 inside, you simply screwed your siege and let too many reinforced the inner. If you push that inner anyway and expect to survive, you're the one to blame.

Btw and just to make it clear for everybody else, because I know you're aware of my intentions and my opinion on the siege buffs. I don't agree about the changes as they proposed them. I would like oil catapult debuff to be removed with charging maneuver. I would like meatbag healing debuff to be purged but only with synergies and player interraction. Finally and not the least, I would like oil catapult and lightning balista stamina/magicka damage to be tuned down to 2k.

And again with this silly thing about how I shouldn't be able to take a keep against 40 people.

If my group, one of the best in the game, can't take a keep against 40 people how do you think a faction is going to react, Frozn? I'll tell you what happens next, they'll bring a BIGGER ZERG. They're not going to just throw up their hands and go "well they got 40 people in there, call it a day," they'll pound zone and bring the entire faction there because THAT IS HOW YOU WANT IT. You want to be invincible in your keep, safe from the dreaded "ball group" and so you're going to get bigger and bigger zergs piling up. And I though that was what we wanted to avoid, I didn't realize we were trying to create bigger incentives to zerg.

So at the end of it, for all your talk of getting better or spreading out, the core of it comes down to that you think once you have a well-defended inner you're good. You're done, I'm screwed. That's your balance. So this isn't about groups "learning to spread out" or "getting better at avoiding red" or (my favorite) "sending in the vampire assassins!" it's just about you not dying because a good group showed up to take your keep.

That's just silly, man.

If you decide to push a well defended keep, you should have near of no chance to win the fight. This also incentive people to spread out and to hit deeper in enemy territory to unstack people from the defending posture. New forward camps are going to help that alot and I'm looking forward into it.

Once again and as alot of people have been telling you. It's not because people disagree with you that they are ignorant. Your arrogance is aggravating so I'm simply gonna let it go, once again.

How about final emp keeps? I mean if that's the case then we should still have the 1st emperors of the campaigns still seating firmly as emperor.

I saw that one coming and I almost answered it in my last post. You should have to make the faction pick between defending his final emp keep or their scrolls by pushing and opening their gates.

Ok......they choose the final emp keep and fortify.....every other keep/scroll is lost. Now what? They are dug in and never coming out......guess we still have the original emps then in your view?

nope. you will have Haxus pvdooring like they do almost every undefended night. it is so hilarious getting killed and then tea bagged when its 16+ dudes on one. so much skill. i really wish their were population requirements to prevent this or something.

Jules wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

Huckdabuck wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Huckdabuck wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

This will be short and sweet.. or not

First of, if you except to take a keep with 40players inside, you should die. You took too much time, you didn't cover the posterns as you sieged the inner and you let people reinforced the keep.

Some of us don't like PvDooring empty keeps. Some of us like having a good fight.

Like I said multiple times already, this is not about pvedooring an empty keep. This is about using strategies to hit where the enemy does't expect you to hit. If you want to hit a keep well defended, you should have a really hard time to get it.

But this really kind of hits home for me where you're coming from. I can take a keep right now from 50 people. You don't like that, you don't think i should be able to. Not sure how to argue you off that.

I'm not saying that I don't like the fact that you can take a keep from 50 people. I'm saying that I don't like the fact that you can take it even though there is massive sieges deployed and even though you don't even have to actually focus siege operators down, you simply have to push in, spam purges, aoes, smart heals and barriers.

Secondly, I know you cannot spread out when you get inside an inner breach, the reason why my whole explanation was reffering to the outter breach. If people are properly setted up inside an inner, you should have to take other walls down to clear it. The way people go right now, they push all the way up the stairs under oil showers, meatbags, fire balistas and as they come on top of the stairs, they get bombed, shotted by fire balistas, meatbags again, and yet they manage to totally destroy everything in their path because of the power of a 24men group, of massive barriers, purges, smart healing and aoe cap. This should not be a thing.

Ball groups should have to slowly make their way up the stairs, killing a few at a time, and timing their movements between each siege volley. They should assign specific roles into their group to assasinate and focus on siege operators. This is not what's happening right now. Ball groups push like a bull and no matter what's in front of them, they will destroy it. This is going to stop now. Ball groups will have to be careful before pushing inside an inner.

Firstly, people don't just "push all the way up the stairs under oil showers, meatbags, fire balistas and as they come on top of the stairs, they get bombed, shotted by fire balistas, meatbags again, and yet they manage to totally destroy everything in their path". Good groups do this against randoms or bad groups. Groups get MELTED doing this all the time. Hell, even my dreaded "24-boogyman group" gets melted doing this sometimes. Why? Because when a ton of siege is going off on you and you're getting bombed and trying to sustain and push through it all, it really hurts and can completely wipe you out.

Second, Assassinating doesn't work. It's a stupid idea in today's game. It is, Frozn. Say i get one guy, who *somehow* manages to get past Caltrops, mines, oils, unpurgable snares and heal debuffs, alllllllll the way up to the top and manages to kill ONE guy on ONE siege. What than? He's dead at that point, and the man on siege is instantly replaced or instantly rezzed. Nothign was accomplished. It is a stupid idea and you should know better.

I feel like in the end, you're just too far behind on the current meta to understand how a group works or how to stop it. If you think a group can just push into anything and win, you're flat out blind. Perhaps willfully so. Because I know you've been there when VE runs, I've seen you there some of those times we push at a keep, wipe in a keep maybe 6-7 times before we take it. We can't just run into it and mindlessly crush everything, it takes A LOT of work to take a well-defended keep, and often we will fail if resistance is that strong. Why don't you go talk to people from Haxus or GoS, groups that have successfully defended keeps from me with fewer or even numbers? Go see what they've got going on that you're missing instead of just throwing your hands up, calling ball groups invincible and doubling down on that siege spec.

When I reffer to people focusing on siege operators, there is two approaches and you mixed them both in your explanations. First one is when you send vampire nightblades to deal with people dropping oil on the catwalk. Ask Oniric if you don't believe me, we've done it plenty of times and it works like a charm. Second approach is to have one hand shield tanks in your setup who charge siege operators as you push them and distract them to make sure they don't use their siege again. Talcyndl can talk to you about it. He has always been great at doing such a role.

Again, if there is 40 inside, you simply screwed your siege and let too many reinforced the inner. If you push that inner anyway and expect to survive, you're the one to blame.

Btw and just to make it clear for everybody else, because I know you're aware of my intentions and my opinion on the siege buffs. I don't agree about the changes as they proposed them. I would like oil catapult debuff to be removed with charging maneuver. I would like meatbag healing debuff to be purged but only with synergies and player interraction. Finally and not the least, I would like oil catapult and lightning balista stamina/magicka damage to be tuned down to 2k.

And again with this silly thing about how I shouldn't be able to take a keep against 40 people.

If my group, one of the best in the game, can't take a keep against 40 people how do you think a faction is going to react, Frozn? I'll tell you what happens next, they'll bring a BIGGER ZERG. They're not going to just throw up their hands and go "well they got 40 people in there, call it a day," they'll pound zone and bring the entire faction there because THAT IS HOW YOU WANT IT. You want to be invincible in your keep, safe from the dreaded "ball group" and so you're going to get bigger and bigger zergs piling up. And I though that was what we wanted to avoid, I didn't realize we were trying to create bigger incentives to zerg.

So at the end of it, for all your talk of getting better or spreading out, the core of it comes down to that you think once you have a well-defended inner you're good. You're done, I'm screwed. That's your balance. So this isn't about groups "learning to spread out" or "getting better at avoiding red" or (my favorite) "sending in the vampire assassins!" it's just about you not dying because a good group showed up to take your keep.

That's just silly, man.

If you decide to push a well defended keep, you should have near of no chance to win the fight. This also incentive people to spread out and to hit deeper in enemy territory to unstack people from the defending posture. New forward camps are going to help that alot and I'm looking forward into it.

Once again and as alot of people have been telling you. It's not because people disagree with you that they are ignorant. Your arrogance is aggravating so I'm simply gonna let it go, once again.

How about final emp keeps? I mean if that's the case then we should still have the 1st emperors of the campaigns still seating firmly as emperor.

I saw that one coming and I almost answered it in my last post. You should have to make the faction pick between defending his final emp keep or their scrolls by pushing and opening their gates.

Ok......they choose the final emp keep and fortify.....every other keep/scroll is lost. Now what? They are dug in and never coming out......guess we still have the original emps then in your view?

nope. you will have Haxus pvdooring like they do almost every undefended night. it is so hilarious getting killed and then tea bagged when its 16+ dudes on one. so much skill. i really wish their were population requirements to prevent this or something.

Everyone PvDoors

I thought we were just AP farming noobs who didn't care about objectives? If so, please explain why we would also care to finish objectives like pvdooring maps? Lol, so contradictory.

Jules wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

Huckdabuck wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Huckdabuck wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

This will be short and sweet.. or not

First of, if you except to take a keep with 40players inside, you should die. You took too much time, you didn't cover the posterns as you sieged the inner and you let people reinforced the keep.

Some of us don't like PvDooring empty keeps. Some of us like having a good fight.

Like I said multiple times already, this is not about pvedooring an empty keep. This is about using strategies to hit where the enemy does't expect you to hit. If you want to hit a keep well defended, you should have a really hard time to get it.

But this really kind of hits home for me where you're coming from. I can take a keep right now from 50 people. You don't like that, you don't think i should be able to. Not sure how to argue you off that.

I'm not saying that I don't like the fact that you can take a keep from 50 people. I'm saying that I don't like the fact that you can take it even though there is massive sieges deployed and even though you don't even have to actually focus siege operators down, you simply have to push in, spam purges, aoes, smart heals and barriers.

Secondly, I know you cannot spread out when you get inside an inner breach, the reason why my whole explanation was reffering to the outter breach. If people are properly setted up inside an inner, you should have to take other walls down to clear it. The way people go right now, they push all the way up the stairs under oil showers, meatbags, fire balistas and as they come on top of the stairs, they get bombed, shotted by fire balistas, meatbags again, and yet they manage to totally destroy everything in their path because of the power of a 24men group, of massive barriers, purges, smart healing and aoe cap. This should not be a thing.

Ball groups should have to slowly make their way up the stairs, killing a few at a time, and timing their movements between each siege volley. They should assign specific roles into their group to assasinate and focus on siege operators. This is not what's happening right now. Ball groups push like a bull and no matter what's in front of them, they will destroy it. This is going to stop now. Ball groups will have to be careful before pushing inside an inner.

Firstly, people don't just "push all the way up the stairs under oil showers, meatbags, fire balistas and as they come on top of the stairs, they get bombed, shotted by fire balistas, meatbags again, and yet they manage to totally destroy everything in their path". Good groups do this against randoms or bad groups. Groups get MELTED doing this all the time. Hell, even my dreaded "24-boogyman group" gets melted doing this sometimes. Why? Because when a ton of siege is going off on you and you're getting bombed and trying to sustain and push through it all, it really hurts and can completely wipe you out.

Second, Assassinating doesn't work. It's a stupid idea in today's game. It is, Frozn. Say i get one guy, who *somehow* manages to get past Caltrops, mines, oils, unpurgable snares and heal debuffs, alllllllll the way up to the top and manages to kill ONE guy on ONE siege. What than? He's dead at that point, and the man on siege is instantly replaced or instantly rezzed. Nothign was accomplished. It is a stupid idea and you should know better.

I feel like in the end, you're just too far behind on the current meta to understand how a group works or how to stop it. If you think a group can just push into anything and win, you're flat out blind. Perhaps willfully so. Because I know you've been there when VE runs, I've seen you there some of those times we push at a keep, wipe in a keep maybe 6-7 times before we take it. We can't just run into it and mindlessly crush everything, it takes A LOT of work to take a well-defended keep, and often we will fail if resistance is that strong. Why don't you go talk to people from Haxus or GoS, groups that have successfully defended keeps from me with fewer or even numbers? Go see what they've got going on that you're missing instead of just throwing your hands up, calling ball groups invincible and doubling down on that siege spec.

When I reffer to people focusing on siege operators, there is two approaches and you mixed them both in your explanations. First one is when you send vampire nightblades to deal with people dropping oil on the catwalk. Ask Oniric if you don't believe me, we've done it plenty of times and it works like a charm. Second approach is to have one hand shield tanks in your setup who charge siege operators as you push them and distract them to make sure they don't use their siege again. Talcyndl can talk to you about it. He has always been great at doing such a role.

Again, if there is 40 inside, you simply screwed your siege and let too many reinforced the inner. If you push that inner anyway and expect to survive, you're the one to blame.

Btw and just to make it clear for everybody else, because I know you're aware of my intentions and my opinion on the siege buffs. I don't agree about the changes as they proposed them. I would like oil catapult debuff to be removed with charging maneuver. I would like meatbag healing debuff to be purged but only with synergies and player interraction. Finally and not the least, I would like oil catapult and lightning balista stamina/magicka damage to be tuned down to 2k.

And again with this silly thing about how I shouldn't be able to take a keep against 40 people.

If my group, one of the best in the game, can't take a keep against 40 people how do you think a faction is going to react, Frozn? I'll tell you what happens next, they'll bring a BIGGER ZERG. They're not going to just throw up their hands and go "well they got 40 people in there, call it a day," they'll pound zone and bring the entire faction there because THAT IS HOW YOU WANT IT. You want to be invincible in your keep, safe from the dreaded "ball group" and so you're going to get bigger and bigger zergs piling up. And I though that was what we wanted to avoid, I didn't realize we were trying to create bigger incentives to zerg.

So at the end of it, for all your talk of getting better or spreading out, the core of it comes down to that you think once you have a well-defended inner you're good. You're done, I'm screwed. That's your balance. So this isn't about groups "learning to spread out" or "getting better at avoiding red" or (my favorite) "sending in the vampire assassins!" it's just about you not dying because a good group showed up to take your keep.

That's just silly, man.

If you decide to push a well defended keep, you should have near of no chance to win the fight. This also incentive people to spread out and to hit deeper in enemy territory to unstack people from the defending posture. New forward camps are going to help that alot and I'm looking forward into it.

Once again and as alot of people have been telling you. It's not because people disagree with you that they are ignorant. Your arrogance is aggravating so I'm simply gonna let it go, once again.

How about final emp keeps? I mean if that's the case then we should still have the 1st emperors of the campaigns still seating firmly as emperor.

I saw that one coming and I almost answered it in my last post. You should have to make the faction pick between defending his final emp keep or their scrolls by pushing and opening their gates.

Ok......they choose the final emp keep and fortify.....every other keep/scroll is lost. Now what? They are dug in and never coming out......guess we still have the original emps then in your view?

nope. you will have Haxus pvdooring like they do almost every undefended night. it is so hilarious getting killed and then tea bagged when its 16+ dudes on one. so much skill. i really wish their were population requirements to prevent this or something.

I thought we were just AP farming noobs who didn't care about objectives? If so, please explain why we would also care to finish objectives like pvdooring maps? Lol, so contradictory.