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Special Note: Feedback/Terminology/Lore Concerns/Clarifications
Please check *here* first for clarification. If this isn't a concern for you, skip ahead.
(
Concerns about "lore", as well as why this post was revised, are addressed in this section.)
The feedback received from comment #2 to #36, based on the original version of this post (which is available below), in particular the feedback which had elaboration and clarification (rather than pronouncements), has lead me to think that at least a portion of the reaction to this concept, both positive and negative, had a bit to do with semantics.
Because I went with Argonian as my primary example in the original version of my posting, because "subrace" is a common category used to summarize subdivisions of character creation choices in RPGs, and because I was basing customization options on a character's initial race, I used the term subrace as a catch-all for a proposed game mechanic.
Another term used for some form of additional distinction in character customization in RPGs is "occupation". But honestly, if you look at my examples and elaborations in this thread, neither "Subrace", nor "Subculture", nor "Occupation/Profession", is adequate to convey what I'm working toward. All of those terms are are too misleading and too limiting. Having thought about it, a better description is needed. I therefore decided that a better phrasing would be "Background".
As for lore, the ideas presented here fit well. I am working within the broad (and loose) framework of the lore. There is always room for more details to be added, for additional knowledge and mechanics to be created. There are still people who don't like
Elder Scrolls Online because they added the Three Banners War to the Interregnum Period of the Second Era, or because Argonians have no stealth passives as per the lore and the bonuses offered in prior games. There are those who were miffed that
Skyrim dropped the class system that had been in every previous game.
Backgrounds are a combination of biology (both hereditary differences and distinctions acquired by how a character has lived) and cultural elements. The biological elements affect cosmetic options, while the cultural elements affect cosmetic options, passive skill options, and possibly even NPC interaction options.
Should some Backgrounds include additional options for the basic biological size and shape of some races? Yes. It is hard to deny that Khajiit and Argonians have strong lore-based biological variation. Accounts of Argonian tribes speak of cultural and historical distinction, but some also
describe particular tribes as having significantly different shapes and size and physical features. The lore also suggests considerable variation for the Khajiit, from nearly Elven with some cat-like features to fully bestial. Thus, the cosmetic aspect of the beast races focuses on these kinds of striking differences.
While additional biological variation is on the table for men and mer, it would be much less pronounced. More focus is given to adornments instead, which is discussed in more detail below under the heading "Cosmetic Changes".
As for concerns about including new passives, that is also discussed in more detail in the section titled "New Passives Added" section, but, it is hardly lore-breaking. Depending on your character's tribe, subculture, or path general in life, it makes sense that there would be differences in specialization. Otherwise the Champion System itself would be "lore-breaking".
ZOS, with the Bethesda's blessing and expressed via this game's loremaster, see lore as a platform to build on rather than a straight-jacket. It is in that spirit I offer my proposal.
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Features of the Background System
Welcome to the Background System thread! This post offers an idea for
adding further customization to your character. This includes
cosmetic changes, passive skills, and NPC interactions (to see examples of new passives skip to the end of section two below).
The basic concept is simple: have the option to further customize your character based on a particular background befitting your race. This adds a bit of cosmetic distinction as well as a small degree of specialization to your passives. Backgrounds are not "just" or "mostly" subracial, or subcultural, or occupational, etc. They may or may not include something from each of those categories, but they are not limited to any one of them.
A quick skimming of this post and skipping of the subsequent comments might lead one to think this system demonstrates a "choose what you want to be good at anything" approach to the passives for Background options. If that were true, I would just de-link Backgrounds completely from race. Backgrounds could just be free-floating and anyone could choose whatever bonuses they wanted in order to most effectively min-max.
Backgrounds are tied to race specifically to help them be both lore-friendly and to avoid such abuses/extremes, as race and culture are often strongly linked in the Elder Scrolls universe. My primary example given below, for Argonians, is meant to give a sense of the way the system would work. If anyone feels the numbers are just way too big, imagine them being smaller.
While I envision all three features being added together, other options include adding only one or two of them.
1. Cosmetic Changes.
That is, new options for your character's appearance. For the beast races, this would be heavier on biological appearance, such as highly distinct body/facial types. For men and mer, any
biological appearance changes would be limited to a bit of minor body/facial variation.
For example, Argonians could get options such as short, squat bodies or thin bodies with narrow, needle-like faces. Those are distinct body and facial types. The same degrees of distinction are found in the lore concerning Khajiit.
For the races of men and mer, Backgrounds might include some extra biological differences for body or facial types but these would not be as extreme. They might reflect the difference between a life spent in prayer versus one spent in combat, or, minor tweaks based on lore-friendly difference in heredity (for example, slightly more Elvish features in some Bretons).
Importantly, men and mer would have many additional adornment options (which includes things like scars, soot, tattoos, jewelry, and as yet to be added potential features) to reflect their backgrounds. These would obviously be cultural, rather than biological, forms of variation, and, it is hardly unknown to have the way people dress or other cultural/occupational differences show up that way in ESO, such as those who wear certain types of war paint or have sooty faces from working a forge. These kinds of appearance options would be expanded as well depending on your choice of Background.
2. New Passive Skills
This is one that people seem to potentially be the most opposed to or conflicted about, especially when linking it to whatever concept of "subraces", "subclasses", or "occupations" they have from other RPGs and wondering whether such a concept would fit with The Elder Scrolls. Others worry this is just a way to get more powerful builds for min-maxers and cause more imbalance.
On the first concern, that is why I think "Background" does more justice to what I've been proposing and describing. To the second concern, the few examples I give, and my discussion of this issue in subsequent comments, are against this very thing. The advantage of tying such Backgrounds to race in some way is that it addresses the concerns of those who feel bored by current system and does so through a more organic system of customization. It also allows for more distinctiveness to your character and how you play but, by not allowing you to grab "just anything you want" and by not offering over-powered options, the system doesn't allow for too much pick-and-choose for min-maxing. That is, such a combined system can make character development more fun while more effectively limiting racial imbalances if implemented properly.
The options laid out include one or the other of the following:
New Skill Tree
In other words, an additional named option for investing another two or three skill points. Or, it and the rest of the Background system could be tied to earning achievement points.
This would *not* have Bretons with weapon damage/stamina bonuses or Redguards with bonuses to spell critical chance or faster casting time on magicka-based abilities. It would be more like small modifiers to combat that add flavor and make a character *a little bit* better at something or bigger bonuses for non-combat modifiers. If someone else posts a comment asking for huge or lore-breaking bonuses based on Background, I will join in saying "Noooooo." In the meantime, I will respond to comments based on what I have proposed, not on what folks may worry others might propose.
Single Passive
Either one point only to spend, or automatically gained. No progression by adding points into it. A static one-liner of a change, like "Duration of snares reduced by X%" or "Take Y% less damage from Undead".
Full and partial examples of Background passives are offered below inside the spoiler tags.
Example: Argonian Backgrounds
My example is based on and builds on the tribes/subraces of Argonians.
Based on existing lore, here are some prime candidates for Argonian Backgrounds...
Agacephs: Most have needle-like faces and vary in color from bright green to orange. Found in inner Argonia near the Hist.
Paatru: Described as "toad-like", they live in the inner part of Argonia.
Sarpa: Described as being "winged", though it's unclear if this is meant literally or not. They live in the interior of Argonia.
Nagas: They are described as having "huge mouths filled with dripping needle-like fangs". Usually seven to eight feet tall, the Nagas appear to be more snake-like than other Argonians. When the other races were attempting to put plantations into Argonia, they generally acted as highway robbers; however, since the other races ceased trying to put plantations in Argonia, they have left the roads and have gone back into the inner swamps
For those who want cosmetic-only changes, this gives the ZOS artists some fun things with which to work. Although Nagas will probably be NPC-only if they are adapted at the size mentioned. Other tribes not mentioned here have no distinction of appearance mentioned, suggesting they have a more standard Argonian appearance and that their differences are largely or entirely cultural (that doesn't disqualify them, but anatomical/physiological variation would be more striking than ethnic distinction for new types of in-game Saxhleel). That still leaves the Agacephs, Paatru, and Sarpa to play around with.
For the actual system proposed, here is one way these backgrounds could be fleshed out (and again, if you think these numbers are too big, picture them smaller):
Agacephs
While all Argonians are connected to the Hist the Agacephs -- distinguished by their brighter coloring, thinner build, and needle-like faces -- live close to its inner core, among the oldest groves. This grants them a greater attunement to the ebb and flow of living energy, making them excellent healers.
New passive tree option:
(*) Increases the Armor value of Light Armor by 10%.
(_) The cost of healing spells is reduced 3%.
(_) The cost of healing spells is reduced 6%.
Single passive option:
The cost of healing spells is reduced 6%.
Paatru
The shorter and squatter Paatru are masters of an ancient and nearly extinct form of shamanism from the dawn of the Argonian peoples. This arcane knowledge grants them greater skill when engaged in the magical arts.
New passive tree option:
(*) Increases Maximum Magicka by 4%.
(_) Increases Spell Critical chance is increased by 4%.
(_) Increased Spell Critical chance is increased by 8%.
Single passive option:
Spell critical chance is increased by 8%.
Sarpa
The Sarpa are known for their swiftness and agility (on land as well as in the water), which makes them ideal candidates for the Shadowscales when open to recruitment. However, living so far into Argonia's interior, they prefer their traditional pursuits such as hunting, to which they are ideally suited.
New passive tree option:
(*) Duration of snares is reduced by 40%.
(_) The cost of stamina-based skills is reduced by 2%.
(_) The cost of stamina-based skills is reduced by 4%.
Single passive option:
The cost of stamina-based skills is reduced by 4%.
Standard Argonian (Saxhleel?)
(Maybe Lawrence Schick could offer a name? Maybe Saxhleel refers to "standard" Argonians and is sometimes used by outsiders (and unifiers among insiders) to refer to all subraces?)
The Saxhleel (or whatever name to use for standard version) are the most well-known of the lizard-folk. They are also the type most associated with the cult of Sithis and their militant wing, the Shadowscales. As a result of their contact with outside races, they developed skills that aid in guerrilla warfare tactics, such as the effective use of stealth.
New passive tree option:
(*) Allows you to enter stealth more quickly and increases speed while stealthed by 10%.
(_) Increases out of combat Stamina and Magicka regeneration by 10% while in stealth.
(_) Increases out of combat Stamina and Magicka regeneration by 20% while in stealth.
Single passive option:
Increases out of combat Stamina and Magicka regeneration by 20% while in stealth.
[Note: The Backgrounds offered here focus on tribes with physical differences but other tribes exist. Other tribes given in the lore may be from the subracial types hinted at for the Backgrounds above, i.e. thin/colorful/needle-nosed, short/squat/toad-like, etc. Perhaps Argonians care more about tribal affiliation than physical appearance. Perhaps not. Maybe the Archeins, for example, who tried to capitalize on the slave trade, included those of the standard/Saxhleel subrace. Maybe the Gee-Rusleel, who are known for their connection to the Hist, tend to be of the same subrace as the Agacephs, hence they both live near/share a deep connection to the Hist. And so on. Lots of room to play around here.]
Thus we have the lore-based Agacepths (healing bonus), Paatru (magicka bonus), Sarpa (stamina bonus), and Saxheel (stealth bonus). Because Argonians are magicka and stamina neutral, the relatively small bonuses do not somehow make a character over-powered.
Other Races
I haven't fleshed out the Backgrounds for other races. I think three or four options would be good. My Argonian example uses four options, so if I were going to work on Backgrounds for other playable races I would likely stick with that.
Here are a few initial sketches of early thoughts on a few other races. If I took the time I could get four for each, but here are the first glimmers of small number of potential Backgrounds:
Redguard(1) a Background focused on bringing back sword-singing
- cosmetics include uniquely cool beards, hairstyles, jewelry in homage to ancient Yokudan legends
- passive focus on skill in getting around a target's defenses: gain X% chance to ignore dodging/blocking by opponent
(2) a Background focused on devotion to the Yokudan gods
- cosmetics include unique and divinely inspired tattoos and/or jewelry
- passive focus on powering up special attacks faster: gain X% bonus to generating ultimate points
(3) a Background for the Ash'aba
- cosmetics include some fierce new scars, scowls and tats
- passive focus on combating undead: gain X% dodge chance versus Undead, Fighter's Guild abilities do Y% more damage (or last Z seconds longer)
(4) a Background focused on the smithing traditions of the Redguard
- cosmetics add appropriate adornments for smithing
- passive focus: learn traits for Blacksmithing quicker/require fewer tempers for Blacksmithing upgrades, unique bonus for Blacksmithed gear (like an extra trait for Redguards only), character gains X% bonus to effectiveness of Blacksmithed gear worn (hmm, maybe only when made in Redguard racial style).
Breton(1) a Background focused on having a more distinctly Merish (a.k.a. Elven) pedigree
- cosmetics include more Ayleid/Altmer-ish facial angles and slightly pointed ears
- passive focus on magic-manipulation: gain X% chance to absorb a spell projectile to gain Y magicka
(2) a Background focused on the hardier aspects of their human heritage:
- cosmetics include features for a more stalwart appearance via new adornments
- passive on resilience: gain X spell/physical/elemental resistance
(3) a Background focused on scholarly pursuits/magical experimentation
- cosmetics include appropriate adornments for magical research
- passive focus: ability to level up enchanting faster, ability to make unique enchantments for weapons/armor, character gains X% bonus to weapon/armor enchantments
(4) a Background focused on mercantile proficiency
- cosmetics include appropriate adornments for merchants and traders
- passive focus: Equipment and repair costs *much* lower, sell items to merchants for *much* more, bounties paid to guards much less with bribe to keep stolen goods
Orsimer(1) a Background in a cult or ritual of Malacath associated with rage and "berserking"
- cosmetics include appropriately disfigured and violent looking adornments such as scars and mutilations
- passive focus: Gain X weapon power when below low Y% health
(2) a Background focused on the weapon smithing traditions of the Orsimer
- cosmetics add appropriate adornments for smithing
- passive focus: learn traits for Blacksmithing quicker/require fewer tempers for Blacksmithing upgrades, a unique bonus for Blacksmithed gear (like an extra trait for Orcs only), character gains X% bonus to effectiveness of Blacksmithed gear worn (hmm, maybe only when made in Orcish racial style).
3. Interaction Modifiers
This would include things such as occasionally having extra dialogue options (similar to the Persuasion passive from the Mage's Guild and the Intimidation passive from the Fighter's Guild). For what it's worth, I would like to see (more of) this for race choice regardless of whether Background are introduced. Not all of the time, but here and there would be nice.
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The initial version of this post on which comments #2 through #36 are based is found below. This post has been edited for clarification and to introduce new details.
Original Version of the Post from Dec 8th, 2015
Race morphs --> Sub-races --> Racial Passive Customization + New Appearance Options [<-- Original Thread Title]
Hello! Just something to ponder for those who find the idea of more options for customization appealing.[/size]
TL;DR BoxRacial morphs into sub-races that add racial passive and/or options and new appearance options! The actual options suggested require additional reading
BackgroundI previously suggested
expanding the racial passive system to include four progression trees of three passive a piece, which gives a total of twelve choices, but limits the number of skill points one can use to nine. So, like now, every so many level from one to fifty you unlock a chance to spend a point. You choose which of the nine out of twelve options you want for passives. Each must be filled out in order, though only the ones you want and only as far into it as you want.
Thinking about customization in general, and recalling a previous thread (cannot find it) from a year ago about adding sub-races, it occurred to me that such an idea would make more sense of the revised passive system.
In addition to adding more options to racial passives
your character would also get an appearance upgrade. You could keep the the standard appearance at the start of the game, which would be the most common(ly known) racial morph or subtype, or switch to another one. These can be based on existing lore (or new lore). Just like you click for other things, you can choose the subrace, then use the sliders and what not for details. Such cosmetic options could also be introduced without or independent of any changes to racial passives.
General Options for Implementation
Option #1
Connect the revised racial passive scheme linked/described above (see "Background" section) to the new sub-racial system. You could still have three trees much like the passives that currently exist, and gain access to (and have the option to respec into) the new tree after reaching level 50 in your race. Or, the new tree could simply be unlocked and an extra three points allowed in order to max out all four (current suggestions in linked post intended for only getting nine choices).
Option #2
The suggestions linked above could also be scrapped or cannibalized for some other racial revamp scheme, but still tie it to reaching race level 50 and giving new appearance options. There could be multiple version of "fourth trees" available that are mutually exclusive, for example, so that you can only unlock one bonus racial passive tree per character. I could write up a sample of this for a race or two or if you want to share your own ideas please do.
Option #3
Like either #1 or #2, but included as part of character customization at the initial character creation screen. No unlocking the sub-race at level 50.
Option #4
Unlike either #1 or #2. You would rather have sub-races added by doing....???
Option #5
Pass on sub-races.
Example: Argonian Subraces
As in real life, "race" and "subculture" are often used interchangeably, so the concept proposed here is fairly loose.
Based on existing lore, here are some candidates for Argonian subraces...
Agacephs: Most have needle-like faces and vary in color from bright green to orange. Found in inner Argonia near the Hist.
Paatru: Described as "toad-like", they live in the inner part of Argonia.
Sarpa: Described as being "winged", though it's unclear if this is meant literally or not. They live in the interior of Argonia.
Nagas: They are described as having "huge mouths filled with dripping needle-like fangs". Usually seven to eight feet tall, the Nagas appear to be more snake-like than other Argonians. When the other races were attempting to put plantations into Argonia, they generally acted as highway robbers; however, since the other races ceased trying to put plantations in Argonia, they have left the roads and have gone back into the inner swamps
For those who want cosmetic-only changes, this gives the ZOS artists some fun things with which to work. Although Nagas will probably be NPC-only if they are adapted at the size mentioned. Other tribes not mentioned here have no distinction of appearance mentioned, suggesting they have a more standard Argonian appearance and that their differences are largely or entirely cultural (that doesn't disqualify them, but anatomical/physiological variation would be more striking than ethnic distinction for new types of in-game Saxhleel). That still leaves the Agacephs, Paatru, and Sarpa to play around with.
For those who want more racial passive options as well, those could be added
separately from the subrace idea *or* tied in with them. As mentioned above (see the brief "Background" section), a distinct new racial passive tree could be added as an option for each subrace, or, such subracial variation could include a single passive with a fun/useful effect. Click the spoiler below for examples of the Argonian subraces mentioned with both a unique new tree and a single passive options for each. These examples are simply for illustration purposes--other versions or numbers are fine with me.
Agacephs
While all Argonians are connected to the Hist, the Agacephs live close to its inner core, among the oldest groves. This grants them a greater attunement to the ebb and flow of living energy, making them excellent healers.
New passive tree option:
(*) Increases the Armor value of Light Armor by 10%.
(_) The cost of healing spells is reduced 3%.
(_) The cost of healing spells is reduced 6%.
Single passive option:
The cost of healing spells is reduced 6%.
Paatru
The shorter and squatter Paatru are masters of an ancient and nearly extinct form of shamanism from the dawn of the Argonian peoples. It grants them greater skill when engaged in the magical arts.
New passive tree option:
(*) Increases Maximum Magicka by 4%.
(_) Increases Spell Critical chance is increased by 4%.
(_) Increased Spell Critical chance is increased by 8%.
Single passive option:
Spell critical chance is increased by 8%.
Sarpa
The Sarpa are known for their swiftness and agility (on land as well as in the water), which makes them ideal candidates for the Shadowscales when open to recruitment. However, living so far into Argonia's interior, they prefer their traditional pursuits such as hunting, to which they are ideally suited.
New passive tree option:
(*) Duration of snares is reduced by 40%.
(_) The cost of stamina-based skills is reduced by 2%.
(_) The cost of stamina-based skills is reduced by 4%.
Single passive option:
The cost of stamina-based skills is reduced by 4%.
Standard Argonian (Saxhleel?)
(Maybe Lawrence Schick could offer a name? Maybe Saxhleel refers to "standard" Argonians and is sometimes used by outsiders (and unifiers among insiders) to refer to all subraces?)
The Saxhleel (or whatever name to use for standard version) are the subrace of the lizard-folk most associated with the cult of Sithis and their militant wing, the Shadowscales. They have had the most contact with outside races, and have developed skills that aid in guerrilla warfare tactics, such as the effective use of stealth.
New passive tree option:
(*) Allows you to enter stealth more quickly and increases speed while stealthed by 10%.
(_) Increases out of combat Stamina and Magicka regeneration by 10% while in stealth.
(_) Increases out of combat Stamina and Magicka regeneration by 20% while in stealth.
Single passive option:
Increases out of combat Stamina and Magicka regeneration by 20% while in stealth.
The advantage of tying such subraces to an expansion of racial passives, however it is done, is that it addresses the concerns of those who feel too pigeon-holed by the current system through a more organic system of customization. It also allows for more distinctiveness to your character and how you play but doesn't allow for too much pick-and-choose for min-maxing. That is, such a combined system could more effectively limit existing racial imbalances if implemented properly.