Do you think PvE players deserve access to alliance war skills?

Digerati · November 2015

No - PvE players must be forced to PvP if they wish to gain access to those skills

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Eocosa wrote: »

Personally I do not think PvP skills should be gained without doing the content just as I think certain PvE skills should not be gained without doing its content (undaunted for example).

This game has several different facets of gameplay to enjoy and participate in if you want the rewards to go along with it. You want to craft the best gear? Level crafting. You want to get Vigor and other skills, head to Cyrodil.

You CAN level up your alliance rank doing essentially "pve" things without engaging IN pvp if for some reason you are unable to really join the large fights (older computer that can't handle it or whatever) by doing scouting missions and I do believe that should continue to be an option, albeit a VERY grindy/slow option for those whose systems may be unable to handle it because there is still the chance of engaging in the specific content for the rewards (you are still at risk of being killed, you are exploring the PvP lake, etc).

I am, admittedly, really opinionated in this regard because I have seen in numerous other games groups doing specific content wanting EVERYTHING accessible to them for their own thing, and that often leads to problems of people complaining of nothing to do as they burn through what they know sooo fast and then demand more of what they have. This way you have to reach outside your comfort zone a little to get some of the perks and you can either find something new you love doing or you can simply set your eye on the prize and just get it done and never do it again, but at least you earned it.

That's my opinion on the matter at least.

The only way I was able to get my alliance rank up was by joining a PVP guild. I tried and tried without a PVP guild, but couldn't. I got what I wanted, it sucked, and I left, but only after doing dedicated PVP.

I recently have started to try again and I don't get why people want to be in Cyrodiil. I was spoiled by being a solo-player in Chillrend, but not that option is gone and I have tried being part of a guild again, I realize the lag in high pop servers really is as bad as people make it out to be and the whole group hated it.

I will propose this idea again. Everyone that doesn't like to do PVE or PVP isn't forced to participate in them. Give other objectives that players can accomplish while in their preferred way of playing which will level up the skill that they normally hate to get. It makes no sense for everyone to want to force everyone else to do things which they hate just out of spite or just because of an imaginary notion about how important "working" towards things is.

Yeah! I want to get gold set pieces mailed to me after taking a keep! Let me get Legerdemain skill ups from sneak-attacking players! I also will need 3x increased XP from player kills so I can level up at a competitive rate!

gen_reynard2050 · November 2015

No - PvE players must be forced to PvP if they wish to gain access to those skills

Tryxus wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

This thread is just a cry for free stuff without having to do anything for it

Instead of going to Cyro and work hard to earn the Alliance War skills

There isn't a whole lot of working hard for AP. It is always abusing tics, playing in a group that has a chance of lag killing other zergs, wall repair, or rapid regeneration spam. All of Cyrodiil is pretty crappy.

Same thing again:

Some ppl don't like repeating the same dungeons over and over again for the Undaunted Skills or Passives, or going around stealing things to lvl their Legerdemain, or like you don't like to go through the "crappy PvP".

But you can't deny, if you work for it, then you've truly earned the skills. They're not a privilege, they're a right once you've earned that right at least.

Just like I explained in my Metaphor: don't go asking daddy to buy you a smartphone (asking ZOS to allow Alliance War skills to be gained through PvE)

It may be crap to you, but in the end you'll enjoy the rewards

I don't care about the Undaunted or what PVP players have to do. It doesn't matter. I offer all undaunted skills, motifs, helmets, and shoulders on a silver platter for free. Stop vindictively punishing PVE players for something that they have no control over.

And yes, I can deny that 'working for things' equates to 'earning things.' Let's suppose that I don't go that route (which I could because it is just an imaginary notion), then I could argue that I am working right now by writing these responses and that if I work hard enough, then I may earn the things that I am calling for, for all PVE players, by moving the developers into action. How is that for "working" and earning something. As if any of this game represents work to begin with is beyond belief.

1. I never once said anything about PvP players, I was talking about players in general
2. How exactly are PvE players punished? By simply PvEing they can lvl up all of their skills except for 2: the Alliance War skills. They can get all of the gear they want, farm anything they like, do whatever dungeon they feel like... So where's the punishment? 2 Skill lines that contain inferior skills compared to the Class/Weapon/Guild skills. PvP skills can be used anywhere, but they shine in Cyrodiil since there are better alternatives to PvE play.
3. Working by writing responses? Sounds like begging to me. Again, same as asking for free stuff from ZOS (smartphone metaphore, yeah, I'm rubbing it in now )
4. "As if any of this game represents work to begin with is beyond belief." -> So you want everything unlocked from the start? Every Skill at 50, every morph available at rank 4 from the beginning,... Ever hear of the Chinese saying: A thousand mile journey begins with a single step? In a game, you're supposed to progress, especially in an RPG like this one.

All in all, there's no reason to simply give PvE players the skills from the Alliance War skill lines, or any alternatives for that matter. It would also break immersion a bit, because how can you earn "War" skills without going to War?

....

Personofsecrets · November 2015

Yes - I think PvE players should have some way of getting access to these skills without having to PvP endlessly

Tryxus wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

This thread is just a cry for free stuff without having to do anything for it

Instead of going to Cyro and work hard to earn the Alliance War skills

There isn't a whole lot of working hard for AP. It is always abusing tics, playing in a group that has a chance of lag killing other zergs, wall repair, or rapid regeneration spam. All of Cyrodiil is pretty crappy.

Same thing again:

Some ppl don't like repeating the same dungeons over and over again for the Undaunted Skills or Passives, or going around stealing things to lvl their Legerdemain, or like you don't like to go through the "crappy PvP".

But you can't deny, if you work for it, then you've truly earned the skills. They're not a privilege, they're a right once you've earned that right at least.

Just like I explained in my Metaphor: don't go asking daddy to buy you a smartphone (asking ZOS to allow Alliance War skills to be gained through PvE)

It may be crap to you, but in the end you'll enjoy the rewards

I don't care about the Undaunted or what PVP players have to do. It doesn't matter. I offer all undaunted skills, motifs, helmets, and shoulders on a silver platter for free. Stop vindictively punishing PVE players for something that they have no control over.

And yes, I can deny that 'working for things' equates to 'earning things.' Let's suppose that I don't go that route (which I could because it is just an imaginary notion), then I could argue that I am working right now by writing these responses and that if I work hard enough, then I may earn the things that I am calling for, for all PVE players, by moving the developers into action. How is that for "working" and earning something. As if any of this game represents work to begin with is beyond belief.

1. I never once said anything about PvP players, I was talking about players in general
2. How exactly are PvE players punished? By simply PvEing they can lvl up all of their skills except for 2: the Alliance War skills. They can get all of the gear they want, farm anything they like, do whatever dungeon they feel like... So where's the punishment? 2 Skill lines that contain inferior skills compared to the Class/Weapon/Guild skills. PvP skills can be used anywhere, but they shine in Cyrodiil since there are better alternatives to PvE play.
3. Working by writing responses? Sounds like begging to me. Again, same as asking for free stuff from ZOS (smartphone metaphore, yeah, I'm rubbing it in now )
4. "As if any of this game represents work to begin with is beyond belief." -> So you want everything unlocked from the start? Every Skill at 50, every morph available at rank 4 from the beginning,... Ever hear of the Chinese saying: A thousand mile journey begins with a single step? In a game, you're supposed to progress, especially in an RPG like this one.

All in all, there's no reason to simply give PvE players the skills from the Alliance War skill lines, or any alternatives for that matter. It would also break immersion a bit, because how can you earn "War" skills without going to War?

None of what you write has any bearing on how we can help each other have a better game by not having to do things that we greatly dislike. Your first two numbered points don't have to do with my discussion. The third and fourth numbered point is an attempt at creating a strawman for yourself to burn down.

There are plenty of reasons to give players better access to the things that they want without having to do things that they don't want. That reason has already been alluded to, but I will make it more explicit. That reason is that such a change would make a greater number of players happy while playing ESO, so if we value that goal, then we would explore routes of achieve that goal (such as alternate paths towards earning skills for players that don't want to PVP or PVE).

Xendyn · November 2015

No - PvE players must be forced to PvP if they wish to gain access to those skills

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Xendyn wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

I will propose this idea again. Everyone that doesn't like to do PVE or PVP isn't forced to participate in them. Give other objectives that players can accomplish while in their preferred way of playing which will level up the skill that they normally hate to get. It makes no sense for everyone ZOS to want to force everyone else to do things which they hate just out of spite or just because of an imaginary notion about how important "working" towards things is.

Fixed that for you.
Because ultimately it's ZOS' game design and they're the ones that set us all up for this.
If they fixed it so all could be equal and get what they want while actually "playing the way you want" I'd be all for it.

Don't see it happening tho, so until then, it is what it is.

There has already been a nerf to the AP cost of getting alliance skills and a buff to the drop rate in shoulders. We can get more, but can't continue to spite each other. Please do not misquote me. This is first about players working together and not what ZOS has chosen to do.

I didn't misquote you at all. I changed one word and noted it.
It IS entirely up to ZOS, the players can't change a thing.

Personofsecrets · November 2015

Yes - I think PvE players should have some way of getting access to these skills without having to PvP endlessly

Digerati wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Eocosa wrote: »

Personally I do not think PvP skills should be gained without doing the content just as I think certain PvE skills should not be gained without doing its content (undaunted for example).

This game has several different facets of gameplay to enjoy and participate in if you want the rewards to go along with it. You want to craft the best gear? Level crafting. You want to get Vigor and other skills, head to Cyrodil.

You CAN level up your alliance rank doing essentially "pve" things without engaging IN pvp if for some reason you are unable to really join the large fights (older computer that can't handle it or whatever) by doing scouting missions and I do believe that should continue to be an option, albeit a VERY grindy/slow option for those whose systems may be unable to handle it because there is still the chance of engaging in the specific content for the rewards (you are still at risk of being killed, you are exploring the PvP lake, etc).

I am, admittedly, really opinionated in this regard because I have seen in numerous other games groups doing specific content wanting EVERYTHING accessible to them for their own thing, and that often leads to problems of people complaining of nothing to do as they burn through what they know sooo fast and then demand more of what they have. This way you have to reach outside your comfort zone a little to get some of the perks and you can either find something new you love doing or you can simply set your eye on the prize and just get it done and never do it again, but at least you earned it.

That's my opinion on the matter at least.

The only way I was able to get my alliance rank up was by joining a PVP guild. I tried and tried without a PVP guild, but couldn't. I got what I wanted, it sucked, and I left, but only after doing dedicated PVP.

I recently have started to try again and I don't get why people want to be in Cyrodiil. I was spoiled by being a solo-player in Chillrend, but not that option is gone and I have tried being part of a guild again, I realize the lag in high pop servers really is as bad as people make it out to be and the whole group hated it.

I will propose this idea again. Everyone that doesn't like to do PVE or PVP isn't forced to participate in them. Give other objectives that players can accomplish while in their preferred way of playing which will level up the skill that they normally hate to get. It makes no sense for everyone to want to force everyone else to do things which they hate just out of spite or just because of an imaginary notion about how important "working" towards things is.

Yeah! I want to get gold set pieces mailed to me after taking a keep! Let me get Legerdemain skill ups from sneak-attacking players! I also will need 3x increased XP from player kills so I can level up at a competitive rate!

Strawman argument. I am suggesting that there is way, not necessarily a free way, for players to get these skills.

"Yes - I think PvE players should have some way of getting access to these skills without having to PvP endlessly"

That was the option that I voted for.

dRudE · November 2015

No - PvE players must be forced to PvP if they wish to gain access to those skills

We just need an aspect of PVP that is more enjoyable, where a small group of PVE'ers can still have an impact, like arena's. Would still earn AP/RP but without having to face zergs and lag.

Personofsecrets · November 2015

Yes - I think PvE players should have some way of getting access to these skills without having to PvP endlessly

Xendyn wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Xendyn wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

I will propose this idea again. Everyone that doesn't like to do PVE or PVP isn't forced to participate in them. Give other objectives that players can accomplish while in their preferred way of playing which will level up the skill that they normally hate to get. It makes no sense for everyone ZOS to want to force everyone else to do things which they hate just out of spite or just because of an imaginary notion about how important "working" towards things is.

Fixed that for you.
Because ultimately it's ZOS' game design and they're the ones that set us all up for this.
If they fixed it so all could be equal and get what they want while actually "playing the way you want" I'd be all for it.

Don't see it happening tho, so until then, it is what it is.

There has already been a nerf to the AP cost of getting alliance skills and a buff to the drop rate in shoulders. We can get more, but can't continue to spite each other. Please do not misquote me. This is first about players working together and not what ZOS has chosen to do.

I didn't misquote you at all. I changed one word and noted it.
It IS entirely up to ZOS, the players can't change a thing.

If you mean that players can't physically gain access to servers in order to change the game, then yes. You are right. Players can't change this issue.

Players can form discussion points that could possibly alter the perspective of developers though. The developers could then accomplish an action that changes how the different skill lines (or even gear) could be obtained. The developers have claimed to like player feedback and even, in the past, taken player feedback into account when changing certain game aspect. It is well within reason that the obtaining of certain skill lines could be altered in order to make the game more enjoyable for a great number of players. It is so well within reason that it has already been done. For example look at how much easier it is to get guard, vigor, detonation, and flare now. People complained and got something in return for their honest feelings.

Personofsecrets · November 2015

Yes - I think PvE players should have some way of getting access to these skills without having to PvP endlessly

dRudE wrote: »

We just need an aspect of PVP that is more enjoyable, where a small group of PVE'ers can still have an impact, like arena's. Would still earn AP/RP but without having to face zergs and lag.

This would be one start to solving this issue. I'm not saying that it would help all PVE players, but there are PVE players that want to PVP in terms of fighting each other, but totally dislike Cyrodiil as it is today.

Xendyn · November 2015

No - PvE players must be forced to PvP if they wish to gain access to those skills

Personofsecrets wrote: »

If you mean that players can't physically gain access to servers in order to change the game, then yes. You are right. Players can't change this issue.

Players can form discussion points that could possibly alter the perspective of developers though. The developers could then accomplish an action that changes how the different skill lines (or even gear) could be obtained. The developers have claimed to like player feedback and even, in the past, taken player feedback into account when changing certain game aspect. It is well within reason that the obtaining of certain skill lines could be altered in order to make the game more enjoyable for a great number of players. It is so well within reason that it has already been done. For example look at how much easier it is to get guard, vigor, detonation, and flare now. People complained and got something in return for their honest feelings.

Agreed in essence, as I said the first time. I just don't see it happening as it would involve changing major parts of the game and this poll does nothing to that end.

Now if you want to go and start a thread discussing how ZOS can give Mage's Guild, Fighter's Guild, Undaunted skills and Monster sets to PVPers for pvping and Alliance War skills to PVEers for pveing, I'd be happy to put my vote on it.

Tryxus · November 2015

No - PvE players must be forced to PvP if they wish to gain access to those skills

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

This thread is just a cry for free stuff without having to do anything for it

Instead of going to Cyro and work hard to earn the Alliance War skills

There isn't a whole lot of working hard for AP. It is always abusing tics, playing in a group that has a chance of lag killing other zergs, wall repair, or rapid regeneration spam. All of Cyrodiil is pretty crappy.

Same thing again:

Some ppl don't like repeating the same dungeons over and over again for the Undaunted Skills or Passives, or going around stealing things to lvl their Legerdemain, or like you don't like to go through the "crappy PvP".

But you can't deny, if you work for it, then you've truly earned the skills. They're not a privilege, they're a right once you've earned that right at least.

Just like I explained in my Metaphor: don't go asking daddy to buy you a smartphone (asking ZOS to allow Alliance War skills to be gained through PvE)

It may be crap to you, but in the end you'll enjoy the rewards

I don't care about the Undaunted or what PVP players have to do. It doesn't matter. I offer all undaunted skills, motifs, helmets, and shoulders on a silver platter for free. Stop vindictively punishing PVE players for something that they have no control over.

And yes, I can deny that 'working for things' equates to 'earning things.' Let's suppose that I don't go that route (which I could because it is just an imaginary notion), then I could argue that I am working right now by writing these responses and that if I work hard enough, then I may earn the things that I am calling for, for all PVE players, by moving the developers into action. How is that for "working" and earning something. As if any of this game represents work to begin with is beyond belief.

1. I never once said anything about PvP players, I was talking about players in general
2. How exactly are PvE players punished? By simply PvEing they can lvl up all of their skills except for 2: the Alliance War skills. They can get all of the gear they want, farm anything they like, do whatever dungeon they feel like... So where's the punishment? 2 Skill lines that contain inferior skills compared to the Class/Weapon/Guild skills. PvP skills can be used anywhere, but they shine in Cyrodiil since there are better alternatives to PvE play.
3. Working by writing responses? Sounds like begging to me. Again, same as asking for free stuff from ZOS (smartphone metaphore, yeah, I'm rubbing it in now )
4. "As if any of this game represents work to begin with is beyond belief." -> So you want everything unlocked from the start? Every Skill at 50, every morph available at rank 4 from the beginning,... Ever hear of the Chinese saying: A thousand mile journey begins with a single step? In a game, you're supposed to progress, especially in an RPG like this one.

All in all, there's no reason to simply give PvE players the skills from the Alliance War skill lines, or any alternatives for that matter. It would also break immersion a bit, because how can you earn "War" skills without going to War?

None of what you write has any bearing on how we can help each other have a better game by not having to do things that we greatly dislike. Your first two numbered points don't have to do with my discussion. The third and fourth numbered point is an attempt at creating a strawman for yourself to burn down.

There are plenty of reasons to give players better access to the things that they want without having to do things that they don't want. That reason has already been alluded to, but I will make it more explicit. That reason is that such a change would make a greater number of players happy while playing ESO, so if we value that goal, then we would explore routes of achieve that goal (such as alternate paths towards earning skills for players that don't want to PVP or PVE).

You're not giving up easily, do you..?

"Your first two numbered points don't have to do with my discussion." They do actually, 1 was my response you to saying

I don't care about the Undaunted or what PVP players have to do. It doesn't matter.

Surprise: IT DOES MATTER

Every player has to do things they don't like, it's like that in every game. If we want those Undaunted passives, we gotta repeat the same dungeons over and over again, if we want our Sneak to cost less, we gotta steal stuff every day. If you want Vigor or Magicka Detonation unlocked, you gotta PvP.

There are ppl who don't like to PvP, yeah that's true. Same goes otherwise: ppl who don't like to PvE. Yet those ppl have no choice if they want better gear, gold, mats, XP,...

Then it makes sense that PvEers have to do smth they don't like if they want those specific skills. Though I don't see why, there are better alternatives

And point 2 was me asking you how PvE players are being punished, cause I recall you saying

Stop vindictively punishing PVE players for something that they have no control over.

So again, how are PvEers being punished? Enlighten me?

3 and 4 are not my attempt at creating a "strawman" (terrible metaphore btw) but simply stating that both you and the OP both seem to want the Alliance War skills unlocked without doing any actual PvP. And what's even the point of asking this: there are better skills out there for PvE than the Alliance War skills.

There are plenty of reasons to give players better access to the things that they want without having to do things that they don't want.

Not when it comes to Skills and XP, or any other things that ppl have spent a long time trying to obtain.

Skills are not a privilege, they're a right

And someone who has spent a long time getting to the higher lvls to get the skills they want have obtained that right. Why should a simple PvEer who has spent 0 time in Cyro killing other players get the PvP skills in the first place?

A happy game eh? If ZOS listens to you and gives PvEers an alternative method to obtain PvP skills, the PvPers are gonna be angry since any random player can obtain the things they may have spent weeks to get in a much easier way.

There's no way to make everyone happy, and you're deluding yourself if you think otherwise.

Let the ppl play this game, and progress the way they want.

Digerati · November 2015

No - PvE players must be forced to PvP if they wish to gain access to those skills

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Digerati wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Eocosa wrote: »

Personally I do not think PvP skills should be gained without doing the content just as I think certain PvE skills should not be gained without doing its content (undaunted for example).

This game has several different facets of gameplay to enjoy and participate in if you want the rewards to go along with it. You want to craft the best gear? Level crafting. You want to get Vigor and other skills, head to Cyrodil.

You CAN level up your alliance rank doing essentially "pve" things without engaging IN pvp if for some reason you are unable to really join the large fights (older computer that can't handle it or whatever) by doing scouting missions and I do believe that should continue to be an option, albeit a VERY grindy/slow option for those whose systems may be unable to handle it because there is still the chance of engaging in the specific content for the rewards (you are still at risk of being killed, you are exploring the PvP lake, etc).

I am, admittedly, really opinionated in this regard because I have seen in numerous other games groups doing specific content wanting EVERYTHING accessible to them for their own thing, and that often leads to problems of people complaining of nothing to do as they burn through what they know sooo fast and then demand more of what they have. This way you have to reach outside your comfort zone a little to get some of the perks and you can either find something new you love doing or you can simply set your eye on the prize and just get it done and never do it again, but at least you earned it.

That's my opinion on the matter at least.

The only way I was able to get my alliance rank up was by joining a PVP guild. I tried and tried without a PVP guild, but couldn't. I got what I wanted, it sucked, and I left, but only after doing dedicated PVP.

I recently have started to try again and I don't get why people want to be in Cyrodiil. I was spoiled by being a solo-player in Chillrend, but not that option is gone and I have tried being part of a guild again, I realize the lag in high pop servers really is as bad as people make it out to be and the whole group hated it.

I will propose this idea again. Everyone that doesn't like to do PVE or PVP isn't forced to participate in them. Give other objectives that players can accomplish while in their preferred way of playing which will level up the skill that they normally hate to get. It makes no sense for everyone to want to force everyone else to do things which they hate just out of spite or just because of an imaginary notion about how important "working" towards things is.

Yeah! I want to get gold set pieces mailed to me after taking a keep! Let me get Legerdemain skill ups from sneak-attacking players! I also will need 3x increased XP from player kills so I can level up at a competitive rate!

Strawman argument. I am suggesting that there is way, not necessarily a free way, for players to get these skills.

"Yes - I think PvE players should have some way of getting access to these skills without having to PvP endlessly"

That was the option that I voted for.

What part of what I've suggested was to get things for FREE? Did you not see the part where I took the keep?

Lenikus · November 2015

No - PvE players must be forced to PvP if they wish to gain access to those skills

...This thread quickly grew to a wall-of-text kind of 3-way convo.... please stop ._.
think about the children. and the wordcount.... ooh the wordcount.

Personofsecrets · November 2015

Yes - I think PvE players should have some way of getting access to these skills without having to PvP endlessly

Digerati wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Digerati wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Eocosa wrote: »

Personally I do not think PvP skills should be gained without doing the content just as I think certain PvE skills should not be gained without doing its content (undaunted for example).

This game has several different facets of gameplay to enjoy and participate in if you want the rewards to go along with it. You want to craft the best gear? Level crafting. You want to get Vigor and other skills, head to Cyrodil.

You CAN level up your alliance rank doing essentially "pve" things without engaging IN pvp if for some reason you are unable to really join the large fights (older computer that can't handle it or whatever) by doing scouting missions and I do believe that should continue to be an option, albeit a VERY grindy/slow option for those whose systems may be unable to handle it because there is still the chance of engaging in the specific content for the rewards (you are still at risk of being killed, you are exploring the PvP lake, etc).

I am, admittedly, really opinionated in this regard because I have seen in numerous other games groups doing specific content wanting EVERYTHING accessible to them for their own thing, and that often leads to problems of people complaining of nothing to do as they burn through what they know sooo fast and then demand more of what they have. This way you have to reach outside your comfort zone a little to get some of the perks and you can either find something new you love doing or you can simply set your eye on the prize and just get it done and never do it again, but at least you earned it.

That's my opinion on the matter at least.

The only way I was able to get my alliance rank up was by joining a PVP guild. I tried and tried without a PVP guild, but couldn't. I got what I wanted, it sucked, and I left, but only after doing dedicated PVP.

I recently have started to try again and I don't get why people want to be in Cyrodiil. I was spoiled by being a solo-player in Chillrend, but not that option is gone and I have tried being part of a guild again, I realize the lag in high pop servers really is as bad as people make it out to be and the whole group hated it.

I will propose this idea again. Everyone that doesn't like to do PVE or PVP isn't forced to participate in them. Give other objectives that players can accomplish while in their preferred way of playing which will level up the skill that they normally hate to get. It makes no sense for everyone to want to force everyone else to do things which they hate just out of spite or just because of an imaginary notion about how important "working" towards things is.

Yeah! I want to get gold set pieces mailed to me after taking a keep! Let me get Legerdemain skill ups from sneak-attacking players! I also will need 3x increased XP from player kills so I can level up at a competitive rate!

Strawman argument. I am suggesting that there is way, not necessarily a free way, for players to get these skills.

"Yes - I think PvE players should have some way of getting access to these skills without having to PvP endlessly"

That was the option that I voted for.

What part of what I've suggested was to get things for FREE? Did you not see the part where I took the keep?

I have no idea what you mean.

Tryxus · November 2015

No - PvE players must be forced to PvP if they wish to gain access to those skills

Lenikus wrote: »

...This thread quickly grew to a wall-of-text kind of 3-way convo.... please stop ._.
think about the children. and the wordcount.... ooh the wordcount.

Agreed

I shouldn't have come to the forums and simply stayed in the game

Ignorance is bliss

Personofsecrets · November 2015

Yes - I think PvE players should have some way of getting access to these skills without having to PvP endlessly

Xendyn wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

If you mean that players can't physically gain access to servers in order to change the game, then yes. You are right. Players can't change this issue.

Players can form discussion points that could possibly alter the perspective of developers though. The developers could then accomplish an action that changes how the different skill lines (or even gear) could be obtained. The developers have claimed to like player feedback and even, in the past, taken player feedback into account when changing certain game aspect. It is well within reason that the obtaining of certain skill lines could be altered in order to make the game more enjoyable for a great number of players. It is so well within reason that it has already been done. For example look at how much easier it is to get guard, vigor, detonation, and flare now. People complained and got something in return for their honest feelings.

Agreed in essence, as I said the first time. I just don't see it happening as it would involve changing major parts of the game and this poll does nothing to that end.

Now if you want to go and start a thread discussing how ZOS can give Mage's Guild, Fighter's Guild, Undaunted skills and Monster sets to PVPers for pvping and Alliance War skills to PVEers for pveing, I'd be happy to put my vote on it.

I think I understand where you are coming from then. The only thing I'll add to the conversation is that many PVE players will probably act like many PVP players in the desire to force the other side to do something that they don't want to do.

I get where that feeling that people are having comes from. It is about fairness and retribution probably, but in my opinion it is all players and Zenimax. It is that players work together, even making concessions from time to time, or there is no possibility of anyone getting anything that they want.

It is possible that Imperial CIty is an example of what I'm saying. There was so much infighting over that content by PVP and PVE players about how the Imperial City should be and, in the end, nobody really got the content that they wanted.

Anyhow, thank you for having the discussion.

BlackEar · November 2015

Yes - I think PvE players should have some way of getting access to these skills without having to PvP endlessly

GnGEmpire wrote: »

Qyrk wrote: »

As a fellow PvE player, OP, the suggestion is such a disgrace. Play the game as it is intended and work hard for those skills.

@Qyrk

I was not aware that my OP contained a suggestion. Kindly point out what part of what I wrote mislead you so that I can address it.

I am not saying that I think PvE players should get access to those skills without PvP'ing, nor am I saying the opposite. I am genuinely interested in knowing the public opinions on this.

Have you even read your own poll options? It is heavily biased in its wording.

Personofsecrets · November 2015

Yes - I think PvE players should have some way of getting access to these skills without having to PvP endlessly

Tryxus wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

This thread is just a cry for free stuff without having to do anything for it

Instead of going to Cyro and work hard to earn the Alliance War skills

There isn't a whole lot of working hard for AP. It is always abusing tics, playing in a group that has a chance of lag killing other zergs, wall repair, or rapid regeneration spam. All of Cyrodiil is pretty crappy.

Same thing again:

Some ppl don't like repeating the same dungeons over and over again for the Undaunted Skills or Passives, or going around stealing things to lvl their Legerdemain, or like you don't like to go through the "crappy PvP".

But you can't deny, if you work for it, then you've truly earned the skills. They're not a privilege, they're a right once you've earned that right at least.

Just like I explained in my Metaphor: don't go asking daddy to buy you a smartphone (asking ZOS to allow Alliance War skills to be gained through PvE)

It may be crap to you, but in the end you'll enjoy the rewards

I don't care about the Undaunted or what PVP players have to do. It doesn't matter. I offer all undaunted skills, motifs, helmets, and shoulders on a silver platter for free. Stop vindictively punishing PVE players for something that they have no control over.

And yes, I can deny that 'working for things' equates to 'earning things.' Let's suppose that I don't go that route (which I could because it is just an imaginary notion), then I could argue that I am working right now by writing these responses and that if I work hard enough, then I may earn the things that I am calling for, for all PVE players, by moving the developers into action. How is that for "working" and earning something. As if any of this game represents work to begin with is beyond belief.

1. I never once said anything about PvP players, I was talking about players in general
2. How exactly are PvE players punished? By simply PvEing they can lvl up all of their skills except for 2: the Alliance War skills. They can get all of the gear they want, farm anything they like, do whatever dungeon they feel like... So where's the punishment? 2 Skill lines that contain inferior skills compared to the Class/Weapon/Guild skills. PvP skills can be used anywhere, but they shine in Cyrodiil since there are better alternatives to PvE play.
3. Working by writing responses? Sounds like begging to me. Again, same as asking for free stuff from ZOS (smartphone metaphore, yeah, I'm rubbing it in now )
4. "As if any of this game represents work to begin with is beyond belief." -> So you want everything unlocked from the start? Every Skill at 50, every morph available at rank 4 from the beginning,... Ever hear of the Chinese saying: A thousand mile journey begins with a single step? In a game, you're supposed to progress, especially in an RPG like this one.

All in all, there's no reason to simply give PvE players the skills from the Alliance War skill lines, or any alternatives for that matter. It would also break immersion a bit, because how can you earn "War" skills without going to War?

None of what you write has any bearing on how we can help each other have a better game by not having to do things that we greatly dislike. Your first two numbered points don't have to do with my discussion. The third and fourth numbered point is an attempt at creating a strawman for yourself to burn down.

There are plenty of reasons to give players better access to the things that they want without having to do things that they don't want. That reason has already been alluded to, but I will make it more explicit. That reason is that such a change would make a greater number of players happy while playing ESO, so if we value that goal, then we would explore routes of achieve that goal (such as alternate paths towards earning skills for players that don't want to PVP or PVE).

You're not giving up easily, do you..?

"Your first two numbered points don't have to do with my discussion." They do actually, 1 was my response you to saying

I don't care about the Undaunted or what PVP players have to do. It doesn't matter.

Surprise: IT DOES MATTER

Every player has to do things they don't like, it's like that in every game. If we want those Undaunted passives, we gotta repeat the same dungeons over and over again, if we want our Sneak to cost less, we gotta steal stuff every day. If you want Vigor or Magicka Detonation unlocked, you gotta PvP.

There are ppl who don't like to PvP, yeah that's true. Same goes otherwise: ppl who don't like to PvE. Yet those ppl have no choice if they want better gear, gold, mats, XP,...

Then it makes sense that PvEers have to do smth they don't like if they want those specific skills. Though I don't see why, there are better alternatives

And point 2 was me asking you how PvE players are being punished, cause I recall you saying

Stop vindictively punishing PVE players for something that they have no control over.

So again, how are PvEers being punished? Enlighten me?

3 and 4 are not my attempt at creating a "strawman" (terrible metaphore btw) but simply stating that both you and the OP both seem to want the Alliance War skills unlocked without doing any actual PvP. And what's even the point of asking this: there are better skills out there for PvE than the Alliance War skills.

There are plenty of reasons to give players better access to the things that they want without having to do things that they don't want.

Not when it comes to Skills and XP, or any other things that ppl have spent a long time trying to obtain.

Skills are not a privilege, they're a right

And someone who has spent a long time getting to the higher lvls to get the skills they want have obtained that right. Why should a simple PvEer who has spent 0 time in Cyro killing other players get the PvP skills in the first place?

A happy game eh? If ZOS listens to you and gives PvEers an alternative method to obtain PvP skills, the PvPers are gonna be angry since any random player can obtain the things they may have spent weeks to get in a much easier way.

There's no way to make everyone happy, and you're deluding yourself if you think otherwise.

Let the ppl play this game, and progress the way they want.

In summation, players may have to currently do things that they don't like, but it isn't necessarily the case that players should have to do things that they don't like. If players can convince Zenimax to make parts of the game more accessible for everyone, then I hope that they can do so.

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO · November 2015

Yes - I think PvE players should have some way of getting access to these skills without having to PvP endlessly

I'd be fine with not getting the skills or anything, I just want to be able to get the akaviri motif without having to pvp.

Yolokin_Swagonborn · November 2015

ZOS changed the entire game so people who know nothing about PvP can get in a giant ball and spam heals and get more than enough AP to unlock whatever you want.

Hows this for an option?

How about ZOS makes a Zerg mode for PvE dungeons and raids. So I can take my entire PvP guild with me in an undaunted dungeon instead of just four people?

Then we could just mob the boss, get our helms and get out.

Personofsecrets · November 2015

Yes - I think PvE players should have some way of getting access to these skills without having to PvP endlessly

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

I'd be fine with not getting the skills or anything, I just want to be able to get the akaviri motif without having to pvp.

You can purchase them with gold from other players.

Jura23 · November 2015

No - PvE players must be forced to PvP if they wish to gain access to those skills

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

I'd be fine with not getting the skills or anything, I just want to be able to get the akaviri motif without having to pvp.

You can buy. It's not BoP.

SHADOW2KK · November 2015

No - PvE players must be forced to PvP if they wish to gain access to those skills

Biased in pure laziness OP.

Earn the skills.......

Jura23 · November 2015

No - PvE players must be forced to PvP if they wish to gain access to those skills

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

ZOS changed the entire game so people who know nothing about PvP can get in a giant ball and spam heals and get more than enough AP to unlock whatever you want.

Hows this for an option?

How about ZOS makes a Zerg mode for PvE dungeons and raids. So I can take my entire PvP guild with me in an undaunted dungeon instead of just four people?

Then we could just mob the boss, get our helms and get out.

Actually this is what bothers me quite a bit. That ppl running in zergs with resto are earning ranks way quicker than those whole choose to learn the hard way by hard earned kills and stuff.

Minnesinger · November 2015

No - PvE players must be forced to PvP if they wish to gain access to those skills

GnGEmpire wrote: »

I've been thinking.

The alliance war skill line has very good abilities, which can be core parts of certain builds even if they are PvE builds.

I for example, a mostly PvE player, know that no amount of PvE content in the world will get me any closer to the 'Magicka Detonation' alliance rank 7 ability, and in order to boost my PvE performance, I must grind PvP content which I enjoy far less, and do so for a very long time, much longer than I'm prepared to.

To you PvP players: when answering this poll, please be honest with yourselves and try and imagine first, what would you feel like if key abilities for many builds such as Vigor and Proximity Detonation would require you to grind mobs endlessly. Would you feel that it is just?

Yes they aren´t called Alliance War skills for no reason. The Undaunted grind offers pve version in similar style. Lots of grinding to get the good passives plus uncertainty over the set drops. So better get those Alliance Points.

Totalitarian · November 2015

No - PvE players must be forced to PvP if they wish to gain access to those skills

I really like PVP, but getting increase in ranks takes a long time. Still, just because it takes a long time doesn't mean that I shouldn't have to take hours to get enough AP to get my Support up.

It took me something like 5 hours yesterday to get 10000 AP to get to Support 4. But now I have Purge...

Maybe if they were to give more/some AP for killing enemy guards.

Khenarthi · November 2015

No - PvE players must be forced to PvP if they wish to gain access to those skills

I chose NO, and I mostly PVE solo (quest). To gain ranks and unlock skills you should do the specific activities linked to them.

tinythinker · November 2015

No - PvE players must be forced to PvP if they wish to gain access to those skills

Hmm, if I buy another copy of the game could I get a second forum account and vote "no" again?

remilafo · November 2015

Other - (Explain)

the grind reauired for the alliance skills live needs to be reduced.. it's to odamn long to get even rank 5..

strikeback1247 · November 2015

No - PvE players must be forced to PvP if they wish to gain access to those skills

I totally see it happen that ZoS makes all PvP skills only usable in PvP because everyone is crying over this topic :'D

Moonshadow66 · November 2015

Yes - I think PvE players should have some way of getting access to these skills without having to PvP endlessly

gen_reynard2050 wrote: »

pve vs pvp...

PVE....
- monster sets ✔
- master sets ✔
- silver/gold keys ✔
- undaunted skills ✔
- alliance points ✘
- pvp skills ✘

PVP...
- monster sets ✘
- master sets ✘
- silver/gold keys ✘
- undaunted skills ✘
- alliance points ✔
- pvp skills ✔

I'm a PvE player and get NONE of the above. Why? Because I don't do group content. That's a huge difference. I'm forced to wear standard crafted armor and standard skills. And this although I probably play a lot more than the majority out there. Maelstrom Arena? Eventually I could make it if I had better skills or gear. For better gear I ONLY can rely on treasure chests in Wrothgar, you probably know the drop rate.