My BIGGEST issue in this game..... Guild Traders

Eshelmen · November 2015

Alphashado wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

WoW and SWTOR are not global systems. Not even close. So in your weak attempt to make me look foolish, I assure you that quite the opposite has been achieved.

Google is your friend.

Are you trying to say that you cant sell to anyone else on the entire server, that you and they belong to, of WoW and SWTOR?

I didnt need to do anything to point out your foolishness. You did that all yourself by posting here about nonsense.

Not sure why I am even bothering to respond. This isn't for your benefit, but rather the benefit of other people that are genuinely curious rather than sarcastically hostile:

Wow and swtor and most other MMOs are broken up into several individual servers. Wow has (or used to have) close to 100 servers. Each server only had a few thousand accounts. The most populated server only had around 15k accounts if memory serves me. The auction houses in WOW are isolated to their perspective servers only. So that means that even the most populated servers only had 15k people using them.

Now, games like GW2 and ESO are on a mega server. This means that an auction house would have to be used by everyone on each mega server, meaning that you could potentially have over a million people using the same auction house.

Links and data and facts on this subject have been posted in these threads many times in the past. I'm sure you will just find another reason to be rude and hostile anyways, but perhaps this explanation helps open minded people understand the situation.

Forgive me, but isnt the mega server performing a somewhat similar concept?

Megaserver has a cap for your player too-
You'll never have every player who is currently signed in, in front of each other. Your current area is always capped.
No matter what, the Megaserver cuts or adds players to your current area, if the population is too high or too low.
(Excluding the already capped PVP servers when you join one.)

Soooooo, why not have the same method with the universal selling system?

Solution #1 for the "too many players" issue-

Players can only sell items when online and players can only buy, when they're online.
To reduce the issue of having "too many players to have a world wide AH" even more so, why not make cross faction selling/trading locked?(Aren't they all enemies anyways? 0_o )
This method would always have a cap of available items, yet that cap should always be capped then, since there is so many players on anyways. The cap for available customers/sellers could be 2,500, 5,000 or even a 10,000 player radius, per individual. This should be more than enough for everyone to make money or to get what they want, when they want it.
Every seller will have customers, and every buyer will be able to buy what they want/need, AND it saves everyone time from not playing the waiting game.
As well, the whole UI of this banking idea would perform 10 times faster than the Guild trader /bank system.

Solution #2 for the "too many players" issue-

No online only selling, cap of 2,500, 5,000, 10,000 stay the same.
However, lock cross faction selling completely and then have several dedicated and public selling locations(markets), while having each location allocated to an X amount of maximum sellers, at any given time.
Resulting in just a handful of very reliable and available sources, per faction, compared to only a few potential ones out of hundreds. How this isn't more convenient for either the buyer OR the seller, is beyond my comprehension then.

Why shop at hundreds of mom and pop shops individually, when you could buy the same item(s) for less ,and within a fraction of the time?(Saves time, which is money

.)
It's a win for everyone.

NobleNerd · November 2015

I say yes to a better option than this horribly broken Guild Trader system. I DO NOT want to play an hour long (or more) trading game traveling all over the place looking for an item because of the long load screens and traders being everywhere it frustrates me to no end!!!!!!

I do not want to play the blind bidding game to acquire a Guild Trader. It is an asinine system. Let me know (secretly) what the highest bid is on a trader so I can shop elsewhere to try to get one instead of blindly wasting my gold to lose to a guild bidding millions to get!!!!

The system is broken and does not create a friendly environment for new players to get into selling and buying. I cannot count how many of my new members to the guild just decide to vendor items than try to attempt selling with this system.

Giraffon · November 2015

I generally like the guild trader system but would like to see a few things improved upon as I had already mentioned previously in this thread.

Giraffon wrote: »

I like the guild trader system but I think it could be improved by doing the following:

Revamp the way you get a guild trader.

Tier 1 - best locations - highest bidder wins just like it always has been.
Tier 2 - lower traffic areas - Highest bidder lottery with randomly assigned trader. So you put your highest best bid in. If there are 100 available traders and you make one of the top 100 bids then you are randomly assigned a trader.

/quote]

I'm quoting myself above because

Giraffon wrote: »

I like the guild trader system but I think it could be improved by doing the following:

Allow sellers to sell more than 30 items. How about 50?

If I buy something from a guild store, please hold my place on the merchandise list instead of putting me back at the top of the 100 item list that I'm browsing.

Revamp the way you get a guild trader.

Tier 1 - best locations - highest bidder wins just like it always has been.
Tier 2 - lower traffic areas - Highest bidder lottery with randomly assigned trader. So you put your highest best bid in. If there are 100 available traders and you make one of the top 100 bids then you are randomly assigned a trader.

And finally, for the love of Sky Shards, please allow key word searching in guild stores!

Now after browsing quite a bit of this thread, for those of you that are generally unhappy with the current system, you might consider cutting down on your stress levels by going with one or more of the approaches below:

- If you don't like guild traders and all they represent, then don't use them. Just sell to NPCs. Less profit, but Instant, easy, and stress free.

- Consider starting your own trading guild and do things the way you think they should be done.

- Quit "swimming against the current" and find a trading guild you like. If you can't beat em', join em'.

I get that some people just want to play the game and not become traders. The first option is for you! If you decide to do all the extra legwork, and use the guild trader system, then you will be rewarded with higher profits. It's your choice! You do have one.

Hand_Bacon · November 2015

Maybe, someday, if UNICEF gets into the guild trader business...

zZzleepyhead · November 2015

AFrostWolf wrote: »

We NEED an Auction House. The Economy is healthy when people compete prices. You can't shop around without a pen and paper and hours of time to do it because you can't compare prices.

You also can't search for an item specifically by name. Another problem an AH will fix.

Literally the only people I see who even like the current system are in guilds who benefit from the current system.

I understand your view and respect it. Maybe a reevaluation of the best method of presenting an auction house is in order now that there is a consistent player base to measure from.
I think a reasonable approach, and a rather fun one at that, may be to add a system where players may sell items on other unique guild traders where the guild would receive a cut of the profit. Do this while adding a few more guild traders around popular trading outlets and I think that would amp up the accessibility for everyone

Hammy01 · November 2015

Callous2208 wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

90% or more of the people that have asked for an auction house in ESO assume it would be like the auction house in WoW.

In fact, time and again, games like WoW, Rift, LOTR, SWTOR are used as examples in their argument.

Those games are broken into tiny, individual servers, therefore creating very small, isolated economies, meaning that each market is only used by the few thousand players on each server.

ESO is on a mega server only broken up by phased variations of the same players, therefore the same auction house would be used by every player in the game, which is anywhere from several hundred thousand to potentially over a million.

500,000 people all using the same auction house. There are only two games that do this that I am aware of: Diablo 3 (which isn't really an accurate comparison) and GW2

GW2 AH is nothing like the little mom n pop auction houses you see in WoW, Rift, etc. If you think the ESO economy is controlled and manipulated, take a stroll over to GW2 and see what market manipulation really is.

WoW-like auction house is not an option in ESO.

It's either a GW2 type global system with half a million players using the same AH, or something like the system we have here. It's not perfect, but when faced with this choice, the decision is easy. All of the pros and cons of a global system have been discussed over and over in a hundred different threads, but wishing for a WoW-like auction house is not an option. WoW has a server-isolated auction house. There is a HUGE difference.

As you can see by my signature, I help run a trading guild in ESO. This system certainly has it's issues. I will not sit here and tell you it's perfect or even desirable. In fact, it's a large PITA at times. But I have played GW2, and I want no part in that type of global system ever again. I hated it.

I also miss the smaller auction systems like WoW or Rift, but we can't have that here. Sadly though, most people don't understand this. The debate will rage on and on w/o most people truly understanding the situation. That's why it keeps coming up and that's why ZOS doesn't even bother responding anymore.

Star Trek Online would like to have a word with you. Its instanced much like this game and everyone is on the same server The economy only takes a hit when the Devs decide to manipulate prices for items so they can push people to their Store. Otherwise the economy there is pretty stable. You have everything from the low priced steals to the over priced never gonna be bought items.

I really hate when people try to make this argument that because WoW and SWTOR is on different servers with smaller pops that that is why those AHs work. When there is a solid number of MMOs out there that actually behave like ESO with Megaserver tech and have AHs that are operational and provide exactly what they do in WoW and SWTOR.

Here is a nice article explaining the joys of the global system in GW2. https://toughlovecritic.wordpress.com/2015/01/05/the-gold-standard-why-loot-sucks-in-gw2-and-ways-to-fix-it/ For those that think a global system would be a great improvement over ESO's current system, you may wish to read this.

In regards to STO, I would be very surprised if it has 1/4 the population of GW2 or ESO, therefore the market wouldn't be nearly as flooded.

STO has been around for 5 years. Its making the most money in North America for PWE. I dont know how you came to the conclusion that they would only have 1/4th of ESO since there is no Pop numbers for either one. But by all means, tell me more about your insight into MMO pops.

The system here is broken. Trying to point at whatever short comings the AH system has is not going to change how badly this game needs something different from its current set up.

Except it's not broken and doesn't need something different so...

Yeah because these threads keep popping up out of thin air and those asking for something different dont have legitimate gripes with the system.

Because you said so.

Its okay everyone. Callous has weighed in, we can all move on.

As a player who uses it as was intended to moderate success is my opinion invalid? Are you only cool on the forums if you don't like things about the game? Is it only the minority, yes that's right, minority, of voices against things on the forum who should be catered to? Is it broken because you said so? Finally, why should I take anything in these whine threads serious when 90% of the posters have claimed over the past few months in other threads that they no longer play the game?

So yes, you can all move on.

Lolll, just weighing in here to say... how in the world do you know that only the minority want an AH change to the game? Honestly unless ZOS adds in a quick survey for us to complete as we all log into the game... asking such things like - "Do you like the current Guild trader system or would rather it be changed to work more like a global AH?", "Do you like current Voice only chat system or would you rather we add in text chat to the game as well (console versions)?".. we will never know what is the majority or minority opinion of this game is.

anitajoneb17_ESO · November 2015

There are more than enough threads and polls on the subject on this very forum to know that people for/against the current system are split about 50/50. So there's no point in saying that the other side is a minority, no matter which side.

But @Alphashado is very right : people aren't very much informed of what they're talking about and the possible consequences when they advocate for a global AH. Proof is, they mix up many arguments that have nothing to do with the trading system per se (like the UI issues, or the travelling times, which are currently worsened by the loading screen problem).

In fact, it is very simple : people who want a global AH want a "convenient feature". People who like the current system see it for what it is : a game within the game. Or better said, a part of the game, and a damn good one at that.

Wanting the current trading system removed for an AH equals, more or less, to saying "remove PvP from Cyrodiil, I don't want to waste time fighting other players for doing my PvE there".

Elsonso · November 2015

.

Hammy01 wrote: »

Lolll, just weighing in here to say... how in the world do you know that only the minority want an AH change to the game? Honestly unless ZOS adds in a quick survey for us to complete as we all log into the game... asking such things like - "Do you like the current Guild trader system or would rather it be changed to work more like a global AH?", "Do you like current Voice only chat system or would you rather we add in text chat to the game as well (console versions)?".. we will never know what is the majority or minority opinion of this game is.

Honestly? It does not matter whether there is a majority of players or not. ZOS has actually said that they have no plans to do a global auction house. On top of that, they have also said that they want to focus on new adventures and game experiences and not system changes. System changes tend to be poor sellers on the DLC shelf.

We are discussing the finer points of global auction house vs local trader. That is all that is happening in these threads. I hope that ZOS watches to cull ideas on how to make the guild traders better.

Edit: oops. last paragraph was lost.

Sukenlihol · November 2015

Single-source AH system is bad. Economy and material prices can be manipulated easily by players.

Current ESO sales system is more competitor and realistic. In addition, price competition at different locations is providing benefits to players.

Anasatsudo · November 2015

Totomushen wrote: »

Single-source AH system is bad. Economy and material prices can be manipulated easily by players.

Current ESO sales system is more competitor and realistic. In addition, price competition at different locations is providing benefits to players.

Since I find that the trading system is utter crap and vendor everything (or store it for future use), and only use 1 vendor location since I do not have the time to search through multiple zones and areas, how exactly does that benefit me?

No.. the current system is a bad design decision by the team. In order to balance both server/DB load and player usability, they need to implement a zone-wide trader like in my previous suggestion.

anitajoneb17_ESO · November 2015

Anasatsudo wrote: »

Since I find that the trading system is utter crap and vendor everything (or store it for future use), and only use 1 vendor location since I do not have the time to search through multiple zones and areas, how exactly does that benefit me?

LOL... you think you don't use the system because it's bad, maybe you just think the system is bad because you don't actually use it ! :-)

Anasatsudo · November 2015

I have tried using it, that isn't the issue. The issue is that you have to run to every trader, look up items, nothing is saved, you can't look up items by name, the filters are reset every time you look at a trader, etc.. etc.. (unless you use an addon ofc).

You want to sell something that is comparable to other prices? You have to either use the recommended (lazy way) price, or you need to run to every trader, find the item (which can be a pita), and get the price ranges, then you can put it on your trader at the price you deem adequate.

Trading in this game is horrible. If anyone thinks otherwise, they are either trolling or have never played any other game before.. most games I've played have better trading systems than ESO.

Rook_Master · November 2015

I agree with OP and would like a centralized Auction House.

anitajoneb17_ESO · November 2015

Anasatsudo wrote: »

I have tried using it, that isn't the issue. The issue is that you have to run to every trader, look up items, nothing is saved, you can't look up items by name, the filters are reset every time you look at a trader, etc.. etc.. (unless you use an addon ofc).

You want to sell something that is comparable to other prices? You have to either use the recommended (lazy way) price, or you need to run to every trader, find the item (which can be a pita), and get the price ranges, then you can put it on your trader at the price you deem adequate.

Trading in this game is horrible. If anyone thinks otherwise, they are either trolling or have never played any other game before.. most games I've played have better trading systems than ESO.

I don't PvP much because I don't like it. I don't call PvP bad though. If you don't like trading, that's fine, but many people do, and with an AH, that entire part of the game would be non-existent. Do not call bad what you simply don't like and don't try to take it away from others.

Again you're mixing up things : what you mention are UI issues, not the guild trader system as is.

Oh, and I take good note that anyone not thinking like you is a troll... LOL.

Anasatsudo · November 2015

See? You're trolling. Either that, or you only bothered to read the first and last paragraph. If you think ESO has a good trading system, then your head would explode if you played Eve-Online.

TheDuck · November 2015

I'll add that being forced to join a guild to be able to buy/sell/trade is just plain stupid.
Its made even worse with the lack of in game guild advertising / recruiting (among other communication issues, but thats for another thread)

The market system in this game is broken.
Its not user friendly, or economically viable in any way.

If you think its ok as is, well, you're entitled to your opinion.

And dont even get me started on guilds that charge for membership. Are you ******* kidding me? LMAO!

Callous2208 · November 2015

Anasatsudo wrote: »

See? You're trolling. Either that, or you only bothered to read the first and last paragraph. If you think ESO has a good trading system, then your head would explode if you played Eve-Online.

Disagreeing is trolling? Wait. I like the system as is and have played every mmo on the market. Does that mean you're trolling me? Stop it you!

RatedChaotic · November 2015

I used to think the same way. That it needs an AH. But my thoughts have changed(sry to those I used to argue with). I dont join trading guilds. I've just been playing and after playing so long. You meet this person and that person. After time it adds up you get enough people that your comfortable gaming with and start getting traders.

It does suck starting out. I truely hated this system and was about quit. But after time you get used to it and start to understand what items make money and what doesnt. Aswell as understand alittle more about this system.

zZzleepyhead · November 2015

Anasatsudo wrote: »

I have tried using it, that isn't the issue. The issue is that you have to run to every trader, look up items, nothing is saved, you can't look up items by name, the filters are reset every time you look at a trader, etc.. etc.. (unless you use an addon ofc).

You want to sell something that is comparable to other prices? You have to either use the recommended (lazy way) price, or you need to run to every trader, find the item (which can be a pita), and get the price ranges, then you can put it on your trader at the price you deem adequate.

Trading in this game is horrible. If anyone thinks otherwise, they are either trolling or have never played any other game before.. most games I've played have better trading systems than ESO.

What exactly are you incapable of selling?
"pita" like a provisioning item?

newtinmpls · November 2015

Anasatsudo wrote: »

I have tried using it, that isn't the issue. The issue is that you have to run to every trader, look up items, nothing is saved, you can't look up items by name, the filters are reset every time you look at a trader, etc.. etc.. (unless you use an addon ofc).

You want to sell something that is comparable to other prices? You have to either use the recommended (lazy way) price, or you need to run to every trader, find the item (which can be a pita), and get the price ranges, then you can put it on your trader at the price you deem adequate.

I don't enjoy looking in say more than three trader locations, so that's what I do. My filters don't completely reset - maybe it's an addon, though I had to disable master merchant as it was negatively effecting my load times. Maybe there is another more subtle addon in there. I'll have to check.

As for price-checking (since I don't have any such addon) I either use zone chat, ask a friend or shout out into a guild (and this does include my PvP guilds) as to the current price for ... whatever. Or I sell it on a personal scale that goes up with level and don't worry about how long it takes to sell (or if it does).

With this system I can participate as much (or as little) as I want, there is nobody globbally price setting (the folks who are into that get slightly stymied by being limited to 5 guilds) and as long as I make my choices consiously, I have fun.

Justice31st · November 2015

Don't forget the fact that some guild traders require a weekly fee they say is for their trader, but then they don't have one the following week or two and just pocket the money.

MountainHound · November 2015

It would be cool perhaps if you went to the bank it added as a central node to all of the guild traders in that city. It would somewhat give relevance on owning a guild trader, make it abit easier for buyers.

I like the guild trader in PVP etc. I think that is really neat.

terrordactyl1971 · November 2015

Rather than a global auction house, how about an auction house for each zone? That would be a compromise somewhere between the two systems as you'd still get price variation across Tamriel.

idk · November 2015

Cherryblossom wrote: »

MrDerrikk wrote: »

NinjaApacHe wrote: »

For sure everybody who likes this method runs a trade guild and makes money out of that

...except people like me who genuinely like the free market

Please explain how this current system is a free market, I really want to know what you actually think. I like a lighthearted laugh now and again....

It's not obvious?

kupacmac · November 2015

This thread is a recent poll on this topic. I think the results speak for themselves.

FlicksZ · November 2015

.

kupacmac wrote: »

This thread is a recent poll on this topic. I think the results speak for themselves.

Very wrong on so many levels.

OneWhomWaits · November 2015

I do a lot less socializing as 4 of my guild slots are taken up by trade guilds.

Limiting the number of guilds does decrease community and social aspect opportunities.

A valid point by OP on the note of a community.

I would really like more social guilds, but I like moving goods more

KewaG · November 2015

I get what the OP is saying but personally I like that I have to "shop around" to find deals. I'll be the last guy you'll see running from store to store irl, but in ESO I travel far and wide looking for deals. I once bought an epic piece of gear, worth 1,000s of gold for a mere 150 gold. If that information was readily available to everyone from everywhere I never would have gotten such a good deal. This is why I like the current system just the way it is.

Jumper45 · November 2015

I do believe the current system is broken and needs a fix. My main problem with it is even after joining 5 trader guilds all of which require a weekly payment to stay joined so the guild leader can keep 70% of those profits for himself and use the other 30% to buy a guild trader. I still cant sell items even at cut prices because i cannot control the bidding process for the guild. The guild leader goes on vacation so i never get to sell my items or some other such situation. My Bank and all my guild stores are maxed out with items to sell i'll get a small trickle of sales but once that store shuts down im sitting on literally tons of items. As a Dungeon crawler I get a bunch of items and since i cant sell anything quickly or at all i have to vendor all of my drops ( i dont craft so i dont break down items) but pennies instead of 1,000 gold or something. I Have no room for anything bank is full inventory is full shop lists are full and still getting more. its very very annoying. Even after buying all the bag space i can etc. I am by no means greedy mind you. I'll undercut a item by 75% just to get rid of it because space is my problem not prices.

Long story short the current process is too slow because buyers have to go to each stall to find something and they cannot Search for item costs or anything. They have to surf through pages and pages of the same items or not even set items but trash whites or something.

THEN you'll run into the problem where because guild leaders arnt doing their job etc really low pop guilds will get the bid and when you go to buy there is literally nothing in the store. ( Talking main hub towns here ) Which only hurts me as a buyer. The smaller guild should get a chance but if they have nothing to offer why should they hold up one of the valued shop slots.

Why do i have to teleport to 9 different locations and search around 72 vendors that never save my search selections to look for a peice of armor set..... Literally takes hours. I'll eventually find it never mind the price. but I shouldnt have to spend 2 hours doing it. With a auction house you just go up. Search the set peice. Its there or its not there. Done in 30 seconds. I did not waste 2 hours of my day looking through garbage vendors.

Alphashado · November 2015

Justice31st wrote: »

Don't forget the fact that some guild traders require a weekly fee they say is for their trader, but then they don't have one the following week or two and just pocket the money.

.... Or they got outbid. It's a blind bid system. You can only bid on one kiosk, and if another guild bids a higher amount, then you lose and don't get another shot til the following Monday.

Comments like this make me not even want to help run a trade guild anymore. You people have no idea how much work is involved, or how stressful it can be. And we do it for no other reason than to have fun and supply a good trader for 500 people. If we wanted to get rich, we would sell our items on someone else's store where we wouldn't have to use our own money just to afford the Kiosk.

BMW doesn't require a weekly fee, but I certainly understand why some guilds do it. If you guys hate the system, then fine. But please stop insulting those of us that are trying to make it work because it's all we have right now.