My BIGGEST issue in this game..... Guild Traders

newtinmpls · November 2015

Eshelmen wrote: »

Hear me out before trolling me.

We all know about Guild Traders, and we all know the pros and cons of selling items with a Guild Trader.
1. Guild Traders
1a. more popular = more sales = more money
1b. less popular = less sales = less money
It's as simple as that.

Well, I find it hard to explain why I'm so opposed to this.

There are certain .... high traffic areas that are essentially ruled by cartels. In a global system this would be worse.

I like having to truck around. Ordering crap on the internet and price shopping - not immersive (yeah, I know that will be a thorn in some sides).

I find traipsing to guild traders and occasionally listening to hawking vendors in chat much more immersive and non-offensive than endless grinds... so I guess it's to each their own.

Starshadw · November 2015

Myyth wrote: »

"I'm going to reference World of Warcraft ONLY to compare their buying/selling system to ESO.

Whoever knows about World of Warcraft, knows the Auction House system is indeed genius. It works and it works very well."

Actually it doenst work well.
What always happens is that one player always buys every cheap item on the local server auction house, then reposts them all at outrageous high prices. As a result you have a couple auction troll players that monopolize and control the market. Examples are low level greens that sell for hundreds of gold because one player buys them all. And they use add ons to do all the work for them so they control the entire servers AH prices.

I am very glad we dont have that problem here in ESO and it really is an open fair market.

Hate to be the one to have to tell you this... but the above happens in this game, too. There are many people who belong to multiple trade guilds and who travel around looking - they buy low, and then relist high.

Callous2208 · November 2015

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

90% or more of the people that have asked for an auction house in ESO assume it would be like the auction house in WoW.

In fact, time and again, games like WoW, Rift, LOTR, SWTOR are used as examples in their argument.

Those games are broken into tiny, individual servers, therefore creating very small, isolated economies, meaning that each market is only used by the few thousand players on each server.

ESO is on a mega server only broken up by phased variations of the same players, therefore the same auction house would be used by every player in the game, which is anywhere from several hundred thousand to potentially over a million.

500,000 people all using the same auction house. There are only two games that do this that I am aware of: Diablo 3 (which isn't really an accurate comparison) and GW2

GW2 AH is nothing like the little mom n pop auction houses you see in WoW, Rift, etc. If you think the ESO economy is controlled and manipulated, take a stroll over to GW2 and see what market manipulation really is.

WoW-like auction house is not an option in ESO.

It's either a GW2 type global system with half a million players using the same AH, or something like the system we have here. It's not perfect, but when faced with this choice, the decision is easy. All of the pros and cons of a global system have been discussed over and over in a hundred different threads, but wishing for a WoW-like auction house is not an option. WoW has a server-isolated auction house. There is a HUGE difference.

As you can see by my signature, I help run a trading guild in ESO. This system certainly has it's issues. I will not sit here and tell you it's perfect or even desirable. In fact, it's a large PITA at times. But I have played GW2, and I want no part in that type of global system ever again. I hated it.

I also miss the smaller auction systems like WoW or Rift, but we can't have that here. Sadly though, most people don't understand this. The debate will rage on and on w/o most people truly understanding the situation. That's why it keeps coming up and that's why ZOS doesn't even bother responding anymore.

Star Trek Online would like to have a word with you. Its instanced much like this game and everyone is on the same server The economy only takes a hit when the Devs decide to manipulate prices for items so they can push people to their Store. Otherwise the economy there is pretty stable. You have everything from the low priced steals to the over priced never gonna be bought items.

I really hate when people try to make this argument that because WoW and SWTOR is on different servers with smaller pops that that is why those AHs work. When there is a solid number of MMOs out there that actually behave like ESO with Megaserver tech and have AHs that are operational and provide exactly what they do in WoW and SWTOR.

Here is a nice article explaining the joys of the global system in GW2. https://toughlovecritic.wordpress.com/2015/01/05/the-gold-standard-why-loot-sucks-in-gw2-and-ways-to-fix-it/ For those that think a global system would be a great improvement over ESO's current system, you may wish to read this.

In regards to STO, I would be very surprised if it has 1/4 the population of GW2 or ESO, therefore the market wouldn't be nearly as flooded.

STO has been around for 5 years. Its making the most money in North America for PWE. I dont know how you came to the conclusion that they would only have 1/4th of ESO since there is no Pop numbers for either one. But by all means, tell me more about your insight into MMO pops.

The system here is broken. Trying to point at whatever short comings the AH system has is not going to change how badly this game needs something different from its current set up.

Except it's not broken and doesn't need something different so...

Yeah because these threads keep popping up out of thin air and those asking for something different dont have legitimate gripes with the system.

Because you said so.

Its okay everyone. Callous has weighed in, we can all move on.

As a player who uses it as was intended to moderate success is my opinion invalid? Are you only cool on the forums if you don't like things about the game? Is it only the minority, yes that's right, minority, of voices against things on the forum who should be catered to? Is it broken because you said so? Finally, why should I take anything in these whine threads serious when 90% of the posters have claimed over the past few months in other threads that they no longer play the game?

So yes, you can all move on.

So because youre okay with spending an Hour + moving from Trader to Trader the system is fine......

Ah yes the 'this is only a minority so any sort of valid points you make are invalid because youre so few' argument. Really? Please try harder. Or dont try at all. Just go back to your one line snarky comments.

Anything that doesnt line up with how you view things is a 'whine' thread. Even when people put forth legitimate concerns or criticisms. Yeah...This is really the direction you want to take your argument?

Oh and of course you finish it off with the classic made up percentage. If I hadnt seen you post before on these forums Id think you were trolling, and doing it poorly.

See, but here's the thing. You said it was broken. That's your opinion. I said it wasn't. That's my opinion. I don't spend an hour moving from trader to trader, so who's making assumptions? My made up numbers aside, (although everyone knows the majority of users do not log onto or post in the forum), why is the crowd that's so adamant to change the system, so sure that everyone agrees based on forum posts? Everyone does not agree. Throwing out lines like, "it's broken and this game badly needs a new system," and trying to pass that off as fact is wrong. That's what you think and as I said, a handful of others on the forums. As for my last point and to piggy back on what you said; I've seen you post a great deal as well, along with the others I included in that 90% tally. It's all negative, this needs to change, and I quit a while back and stalk the forums. I don't agree with your take on the system, nor do I agree with your ideas for changing it. Stating that fact doesn't make me a troll. But it sure does upset you to see anything other than blind agreement and an agree tick at the bottom of the post. Does it not?

Korah_Eaglecry · November 2015

Callous2208 wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

90% or more of the people that have asked for an auction house in ESO assume it would be like the auction house in WoW.

In fact, time and again, games like WoW, Rift, LOTR, SWTOR are used as examples in their argument.

Those games are broken into tiny, individual servers, therefore creating very small, isolated economies, meaning that each market is only used by the few thousand players on each server.

ESO is on a mega server only broken up by phased variations of the same players, therefore the same auction house would be used by every player in the game, which is anywhere from several hundred thousand to potentially over a million.

500,000 people all using the same auction house. There are only two games that do this that I am aware of: Diablo 3 (which isn't really an accurate comparison) and GW2

GW2 AH is nothing like the little mom n pop auction houses you see in WoW, Rift, etc. If you think the ESO economy is controlled and manipulated, take a stroll over to GW2 and see what market manipulation really is.

WoW-like auction house is not an option in ESO.

It's either a GW2 type global system with half a million players using the same AH, or something like the system we have here. It's not perfect, but when faced with this choice, the decision is easy. All of the pros and cons of a global system have been discussed over and over in a hundred different threads, but wishing for a WoW-like auction house is not an option. WoW has a server-isolated auction house. There is a HUGE difference.

As you can see by my signature, I help run a trading guild in ESO. This system certainly has it's issues. I will not sit here and tell you it's perfect or even desirable. In fact, it's a large PITA at times. But I have played GW2, and I want no part in that type of global system ever again. I hated it.

I also miss the smaller auction systems like WoW or Rift, but we can't have that here. Sadly though, most people don't understand this. The debate will rage on and on w/o most people truly understanding the situation. That's why it keeps coming up and that's why ZOS doesn't even bother responding anymore.

Star Trek Online would like to have a word with you. Its instanced much like this game and everyone is on the same server The economy only takes a hit when the Devs decide to manipulate prices for items so they can push people to their Store. Otherwise the economy there is pretty stable. You have everything from the low priced steals to the over priced never gonna be bought items.

I really hate when people try to make this argument that because WoW and SWTOR is on different servers with smaller pops that that is why those AHs work. When there is a solid number of MMOs out there that actually behave like ESO with Megaserver tech and have AHs that are operational and provide exactly what they do in WoW and SWTOR.

Here is a nice article explaining the joys of the global system in GW2. https://toughlovecritic.wordpress.com/2015/01/05/the-gold-standard-why-loot-sucks-in-gw2-and-ways-to-fix-it/ For those that think a global system would be a great improvement over ESO's current system, you may wish to read this.

In regards to STO, I would be very surprised if it has 1/4 the population of GW2 or ESO, therefore the market wouldn't be nearly as flooded.

STO has been around for 5 years. Its making the most money in North America for PWE. I dont know how you came to the conclusion that they would only have 1/4th of ESO since there is no Pop numbers for either one. But by all means, tell me more about your insight into MMO pops.

The system here is broken. Trying to point at whatever short comings the AH system has is not going to change how badly this game needs something different from its current set up.

Except it's not broken and doesn't need something different so...

Yeah because these threads keep popping up out of thin air and those asking for something different dont have legitimate gripes with the system.

Because you said so.

Its okay everyone. Callous has weighed in, we can all move on.

As a player who uses it as was intended to moderate success is my opinion invalid? Are you only cool on the forums if you don't like things about the game? Is it only the minority, yes that's right, minority, of voices against things on the forum who should be catered to? Is it broken because you said so? Finally, why should I take anything in these whine threads serious when 90% of the posters have claimed over the past few months in other threads that they no longer play the game?

So yes, you can all move on.

So because youre okay with spending an Hour + moving from Trader to Trader the system is fine......

Ah yes the 'this is only a minority so any sort of valid points you make are invalid because youre so few' argument. Really? Please try harder. Or dont try at all. Just go back to your one line snarky comments.

Anything that doesnt line up with how you view things is a 'whine' thread. Even when people put forth legitimate concerns or criticisms. Yeah...This is really the direction you want to take your argument?

Oh and of course you finish it off with the classic made up percentage. If I hadnt seen you post before on these forums Id think you were trolling, and doing it poorly.

See, but here's the thing. You said it was broken. That's your opinion. I said it wasn't. That's my opinion. I don't spend an hour moving from trader to trader, so who's making assumptions? My made up numbers aside, (although everyone knows the majority of users do not log onto or post in the forum), why is the crowd that's so adamant to change the system, so sure that everyone agrees based on forum posts? Everyone does not agree. Throwing out lines like, "it's broken and this game badly needs a new system," and trying to pass that off as fact is wrong. That's what you think and as I said, a handful of others on the forums. As for my last point and to piggy back on what you said; I've seen you post a great deal as well, along with the others I included in that 90% tally. It's all negative, this needs to change, and I quit a while back and stalk the forums. I don't agree with your take on the system, nor do I agree with your ideas for changing it. Stating that fact doesn't make me a troll. But it sure does upset you to see anything other than blind agreement and an agree tick at the bottom.

What is the purpose of the Guild Stores? Are they meant to provide players a means of selling wares that they have no use for to other players with a use for it? Is it a means for players that took the time to farm/grind for an item(s) a means of making a profit from selling said item(s) to players who didnt take that time/didnt have time to farm/grind for said item(s)?

If players have to spend upwards to an hour or more looking for specific items, shopping around for better prices. Does that not defeat the purpose of going to the Guild Traders in the first place when that time could of easily been spent farming/grinding for items?

If I log in and I dont have more than an hour to play. But I need to craft some new armor for my newly leveled up character. And my choice is spend an hour hunting down a mat on the Guild Traders and then hunting down a better price for said mat or going out and farming those same mats. How is the Guild Trader actually providing me an incentive to pay for those mats when the effort and time spent mirrors each other? That is supposed to be the trade off of going out and doing the leg work yourself and paying someone else for their legwork.

Im not playing the game of Walmart, Target and Costco. I dont log in to spend my time browsing for hours. I want to engage the content, I want to enjoy what the game has to offer. If Im being forced to choose between browsing for an hour or more, or playing the actual game. Then the mechanic is broken. And you can argue that my point is just an opinion all you want. But good luck convincing anyone that can look at the Guild Traders objectively. That the trade off is there. Because its not.

Cherryblossom · November 2015

imnotanother wrote: »

Cherryblossom wrote: »

vonfelty wrote: »

Cherryblossom wrote: »

MrDerrikk wrote: »

NinjaApacHe wrote: »

For sure everybody who likes this method runs a trade guild and makes money out of that

...except people like me who genuinely like the free market

Please explain how this current system is a free market, I really want to know what you actually think. I like a lighthearted laugh now and again....

Well both systems are a free market. It's just one is less efficient.

It's the difference between shopping online and driving to different places to check prices.

Personally I don't mind the current system as it fosters reliance on guild members.

Free market you have unrestricted markets, you don't have that in ESO. We only have a finite number of Guild Traders about 140, which means if we have 500,000 people playing only 14% can sell to the community, this is the oposite of a free market. This is a restrictive market which allows large guilds to monopolise the market.
Before you say another guild can just sell lower, no they can't as this other guild still needs to make enough money to out bid the bigger guild for the best spaces, so they are forced to sell at the same price or higher!
The whole system is flawed, if it wasn't flawed they would not of added the Guild traders as a sticking plaster! Don't forget they were actually expecting everyone to go into PVP to buy and sell!!!!

It still falls under a free market. Your math is correct but the variable you are forgetting to factor in is that each week, those 140 locations are up for bid to an infinite amount of Guilds. If every player of 500,000 started their own guild, then there would be 500,000 guilds competing to sell their goods.
I know your argument is: that larger guilds will always win the bids, not allowing the small ones a chance - leaving many players unable to sell merchandise that week. These players are not obligated to stay in a unsuccessful guild. They have options to join others. Or they can form/manage one of their own.

Your arguement is in dream world and more importantly you admit it as you know all to well that those big guilds are not giving up their slots! More importantly there are 140ish guild trader but only about 50 are in locations that make them worthwhile, so if we were honest we would reduce drastically the amount of players that are able to sell effectively!

Cherryblossom · November 2015

lordrichter wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

If you really study those threads and posts, I think you'll find the only players who sound very entitled are the ones who are making loads of money out of the present system so don't want it changed thank you very much! And to be scrupulously fair, even those sellers are admitting that as buyers the system sucks!

Untrue. As a buyer, I find that the Guild Trader system works well. Again, on the PC/Mac. Your experience may be different on the console. It is very rare that I cannot find something at a price I am willing to pay.

As a casual seller, I sell a number of different things, from 1g/ea materials all the way up to excess motifs that are currently selling for thousands apiece. I do not make loads of gold doing this, but I have been doing this for more than a year, and I have accumulated some gold along the way.

People who want to sell in the traders need to find a guild with a trader that they can join and stick with. There are guilds out there that are not full, do not charge to be member, have no sales requirements, have a guild store, and actually have a trader. If anything, ESO needs a "Looking For Guild" as much as it needs "Looking For Group" so that people can find guilds. Heck, just a way to contact a guild would be nice. You should be able to send mail to a GUILD and have it go to the guild master.

Simple maths says there are not enough guild traders for everyone to be able to sell, what's more the majority of traders are rarely visited because of their location!

So while this may work for you, it cannot work for the whole community.

The Simple FACT is and I know it's hard for some to understand (not sure why), the trading system is exclusive in a game where is should be inclusive.

This is an inconvient fact for ZOS so like all the other problems they ignore it!

Cherryblossom · November 2015

YeOldeGamer wrote: »

I like the current system. It could use better search functions (not that it would help, you obviously don't know how to use them.) but it is far better than an auction house. I see many people saying the only people who like this system are the ones in guilds, making money... Well then get in a guild, and quit being a ***.

Your not very bright I have to assume, there are about 140 traders, 500 people per guild, so a Maximum of 70k people can sell, so stop being a *** and look at the facts.

Pheefs · November 2015

Tandor wrote: »

guild kiosks his level and alliance restrict him to even tho' most of the low-level kiosks are dominated by those playing the veteran level instances of the only zone with kiosks that he's encountered?

No. Eventually we all get to visit every Guild Trader in the game, its just a question of when for the other alliance maps...
so a Good Crafting Trader has things for sale at every crafting tier, like in Daggerfall they have it all.

lordrichter wrote: »

just a way to contact a guild would be nice. You should be able to send mail to a GUILD and have it go to the guild master.

I agree!
I'd love to be able to request a Guild Invite from my favorite Trader.

Cherryblossom · November 2015

Callous2208 wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

90% or more of the people that have asked for an auction house in ESO assume it would be like the auction house in WoW.

In fact, time and again, games like WoW, Rift, LOTR, SWTOR are used as examples in their argument.

Those games are broken into tiny, individual servers, therefore creating very small, isolated economies, meaning that each market is only used by the few thousand players on each server.

ESO is on a mega server only broken up by phased variations of the same players, therefore the same auction house would be used by every player in the game, which is anywhere from several hundred thousand to potentially over a million.

500,000 people all using the same auction house. There are only two games that do this that I am aware of: Diablo 3 (which isn't really an accurate comparison) and GW2

GW2 AH is nothing like the little mom n pop auction houses you see in WoW, Rift, etc. If you think the ESO economy is controlled and manipulated, take a stroll over to GW2 and see what market manipulation really is.

WoW-like auction house is not an option in ESO.

It's either a GW2 type global system with half a million players using the same AH, or something like the system we have here. It's not perfect, but when faced with this choice, the decision is easy. All of the pros and cons of a global system have been discussed over and over in a hundred different threads, but wishing for a WoW-like auction house is not an option. WoW has a server-isolated auction house. There is a HUGE difference.

As you can see by my signature, I help run a trading guild in ESO. This system certainly has it's issues. I will not sit here and tell you it's perfect or even desirable. In fact, it's a large PITA at times. But I have played GW2, and I want no part in that type of global system ever again. I hated it.

I also miss the smaller auction systems like WoW or Rift, but we can't have that here. Sadly though, most people don't understand this. The debate will rage on and on w/o most people truly understanding the situation. That's why it keeps coming up and that's why ZOS doesn't even bother responding anymore.

Star Trek Online would like to have a word with you. Its instanced much like this game and everyone is on the same server The economy only takes a hit when the Devs decide to manipulate prices for items so they can push people to their Store. Otherwise the economy there is pretty stable. You have everything from the low priced steals to the over priced never gonna be bought items.

I really hate when people try to make this argument that because WoW and SWTOR is on different servers with smaller pops that that is why those AHs work. When there is a solid number of MMOs out there that actually behave like ESO with Megaserver tech and have AHs that are operational and provide exactly what they do in WoW and SWTOR.

Here is a nice article explaining the joys of the global system in GW2. https://toughlovecritic.wordpress.com/2015/01/05/the-gold-standard-why-loot-sucks-in-gw2-and-ways-to-fix-it/ For those that think a global system would be a great improvement over ESO's current system, you may wish to read this.

In regards to STO, I would be very surprised if it has 1/4 the population of GW2 or ESO, therefore the market wouldn't be nearly as flooded.

STO has been around for 5 years. Its making the most money in North America for PWE. I dont know how you came to the conclusion that they would only have 1/4th of ESO since there is no Pop numbers for either one. But by all means, tell me more about your insight into MMO pops.

The system here is broken. Trying to point at whatever short comings the AH system has is not going to change how badly this game needs something different from its current set up.

Except it's not broken and doesn't need something different so...

Yeah because these threads keep popping up out of thin air and those asking for something different dont have legitimate gripes with the system.

Because you said so.

Its okay everyone. Callous has weighed in, we can all move on.

As a player who uses it as was intended to moderate success is my opinion invalid? Are you only cool on the forums if you don't like things about the game? Is it only the minority, yes that's right, minority, of voices against things on the forum who should be catered to? Is it broken because you said so? Finally, why should I take anything in these whine threads serious when 90% of the posters have claimed over the past few months in other threads that they no longer play the game?

So yes, you can all move on.

So because youre okay with spending an Hour + moving from Trader to Trader the system is fine......

Ah yes the 'this is only a minority so any sort of valid points you make are invalid because youre so few' argument. Really? Please try harder. Or dont try at all. Just go back to your one line snarky comments.

Anything that doesnt line up with how you view things is a 'whine' thread. Even when people put forth legitimate concerns or criticisms. Yeah...This is really the direction you want to take your argument?

Oh and of course you finish it off with the classic made up percentage. If I hadnt seen you post before on these forums Id think you were trolling, and doing it poorly.

See, but here's the thing. You said it was broken. That's your opinion. I said it wasn't. That's my opinion. I don't spend an hour moving from trader to trader, so who's making assumptions? My made up numbers aside, (although everyone knows the majority of users do not log onto or post in the forum), why is the crowd that's so adamant to change the system, so sure that everyone agrees based on forum posts? Everyone does not agree. Throwing out lines like, "it's broken and this game badly needs a new system," and trying to pass that off as fact is wrong. That's what you think and as I said, a handful of others on the forums. As for my last point and to piggy back on what you said; I've seen you post a great deal as well, along with the others I included in that 90% tally. It's all negative, this needs to change, and I quit a while back and stalk the forums. I don't agree with your take on the system, nor do I agree with your ideas for changing it. Stating that fact doesn't make me a troll. But it sure does upset you to see anything other than blind agreement and an agree tick at the bottom of the post. Does it not?

I would consider any system in an MMO which is not inclusive deeply flawed, some would consider something that is flawed as being broken.

So as there can only ever be 70k of sellers in the game to the community I'm hoping you will agree that this is a flaw!

nimander99 · November 2015

It's a huge bother, it's not going anywhere, aaaaaaand it's a huge bother

Stx · November 2015

I agree. When I want to buy something from an AH, I don't want to have to run literally all over the continent finding the best deal. I want to go to my AH, see the prices, and either buy something, or go back to questing/PvPing. Trying to buy stuff in this game is a giant waste of my time.

Also, trying to sell something without being in a big trade guild is generally not possible, and that is asinine.

rager82b14_ESO · November 2015

This is just on the list of bad design things the developers have done. And won't listen to good feedback on it. Can't blame the testers on this. Us beta testers asked them and we had many people hated it. Just the few who liked it, they listen to them.

I mean we seen how clueless the developers are with the videos, and how they release console ESO. So the chances of them taking this good feedback and using it is zero.

Pheefs · November 2015

Eshelmen wrote: »

PLEASE someone disagree with my OP if you are dead broke and aren't selling well or ever.
Exactly.
The only ones opposed to it, are sitting nicely.

Nope!
I'm the one who doesn't sell at all & enjoys going to three places to comparison shop... more than three takes too much time for someone who isn't an actual merchant, & I found that only going to two I don't get the best deals.

& Yes, that means I usually check around 10 to 12 individual Guild Traders total.

I am SO GLAD people can buy low & sell high, because that means I always-ALWAYS find a bargain.
If someone is making a game for themselves of really being a travelling merchant and getting rich that way, I say...
Good Luck! & Praise Zenithar!

temjiu · November 2015

Eshelmen wrote: »

So, those who oppose the auction house style, you believe every player has the exact opportunity to sell as much as anyone else? Regardless of which guild trader and which location?
lololololol

This game shouldn't be so stingy on its most obvious core aspect. Making money.

When you have so many players overpricing items, it's not only because everyone else is doing it, it completely screws the value of items.

People selling potions for double to triple(even 10x) the amount of an AI vendor? lmfao, get out of here.
What a ridiculous system.

PLEASE someone disagree with my OP if you are dead broke and aren't selling well or ever.
Exactly.

The only ones opposed to it, are sitting nicely.

I am currently sitting on about 7k on my main, and another 3k in the bank. I am broke. I have about a half dozen items on my guild store, and I'm currently only in one guild.

And I enjoy the current design. Not in all of it's clunky glory, for sure. But It is an idea that has potential. And Please don't lob everyone into some "Affluent" category just to fit your argument. Your comment stinks of ad-hominem.

rager82b14_ESO · November 2015

Pheefs wrote: »

Eshelmen wrote: »

PLEASE someone disagree with my OP if you are dead broke and aren't selling well or ever.
Exactly.
The only ones opposed to it, are sitting nicely.

Nope!
I'm the one who doesn't sell at all & enjoys going to three places to comparison shop... more than three takes too much time for someone who isn't an actual merchant, & I found that only going to two I don't get the best deals.

& Yes, that means I usually check around 10 to 12 individual Guild Traders total.

I am SO GLAD people can buy low & sell high, because that means I always-ALWAYS find a bargain.
If someone is making a game for themselves of really being a travelling merchant and getting rich that way, I say...
Good Luck! & Praise Zenithar!

And you should feel bad, for making the game tedious for the rest of us. Good job.

Alphashado · November 2015

If even half of the people asking for an auction house actually understood what they were asking for, I would give these threads a glimmer of credit.

The fact is that most (and it's not even close) of the people asking for an AH have never played a game with a global system (which ESO would have to be)

There are a few people popping up now and they talking about how they have played one of the two MMOs that use a global system and say they liked it. Okay, that's fine, but most have not.

Even if half the community wants an auction house, such a small % of those people asking for one actually understand what they are asking for, that it really depletes any amount of weight these threads carry. 99% of the people asking for an auction house are referencing games that do not use a global system, therefore the argument that 50% of the player base wants an auction house does not carry any weight in the eyes of the developers, because the devs are fully aware how detrimental this type of system would be to their game, and they have said this numerous times.

And lastly, being vicious and rude to people that actually prefer this system (either because they like it, or because they understand what a global system would bring) does not lend any weight to your arguments.

Pheefs · November 2015

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

Pheefs wrote: »

Eshelmen wrote: »

PLEASE someone disagree with my OP if you are dead broke and aren't selling well or ever.
Exactly.
The only ones opposed to it, are sitting nicely.

Nope!
I'm the one who doesn't sell at all & enjoys going to three places to comparison shop... more than three takes too much time for someone who isn't an actual merchant, & I found that only going to two I don't get the best deals.

& Yes, that means I usually check around 10 to 12 individual Guild Traders total.

I am SO GLAD people can buy low & sell high, because that means I always-ALWAYS find a bargain.
If someone is making a game for themselves of really being a travelling merchant and getting rich that way, I say...
Good Luck! & Praise Zenithar!

And you should feel bad, for making the game tedious for the rest of us. Good job.

what? half an hour to hop around and see the Player Fashion Show is fun.

Its not my fault if you are all shop-aholoics!
What are you looking for?

temjiu · November 2015

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

So because youre okay with spending an Hour + moving from Trader to Trader the system is fine......

Ah yes the 'this is only a minority so any sort of valid points you make are invalid because youre so few' argument. Really? Please try harder. Or dont try at all. Just go back to your one line snarky comments.

Anything that doesnt line up with how you view things is a 'whine' thread. Even when people put forth legitimate concerns or criticisms. Yeah...This is really the direction you want to take your argument?

Oh and of course you finish it off with the classic made up percentage. If I hadnt seen you post before on these forums Id think you were trolling, and doing it poorly.

I don't spend an hour+moving from trader to trader. I usually do one of 2 things:

1) I start up MM, and it tracks sales records, and lets me know if a deal is decent or not.
2) I either go and buy at the markets that are in the main city (if i want a fast purchase), or I hunt a bit if I want a good deal.

I admit, the poster you replied to sounded brusque for sure. Just pointing out that you don't have to spend hours browsing markets. find a few that have generally good prices and stick with them. I sort of like how you can get rewarded for actually hunting down some markets out in the boondocks with cheap prices and profit.

In spite of the lack of "mini-game" in our present market system...there actually is a "meta-game" in it's place. And you actually have to put time in it, instead of standing in front of an auction house window refreshing prices for hours. I suppose if your one of those who like the mini-game of micromanaging prices in a global AH, you may not like this system. But I am not one of those people. There is nothing wrong with that point of view...It's like comparing a PvE player to a PvP player. both are valid playstyles, merely a matter of preference. I would personally prefer to see the current system get streamlined.

temjiu · November 2015

Weird double post. I probably clicked too many buttons.

rager82b14_ESO · November 2015

Alphashado wrote: »

If even half of the people asking for an auction house actually understood what they were asking for, I would give these threads a glimmer of credit.

The fact is that most (and it's not even close) of the people asking for an AH have never played a game with a global system (which ESO would have to be)

There are a few people popping up now and they talking about how they have played one of the two MMOs that use a global system and say they liked it. Okay, that's fine, but most have not.

Even if half the community wants an auction house, such a small % of those people asking for one actually understand what they are asking for, that it really depletes any amount of weight these threads carry. 99% of the people asking for an auction house are referencing games that do not use a global system, therefore the argument that 50% of the player base wants an auction house does not carry any weight in the eyes of the developers, because the devs are fully aware how detrimental this type of system would be to their game, and they have said this numerous times.

And lastly, being vicious and rude to people that actually prefer this system (either because they like it, or because they understand what a global system would bring) does not lend any weight to your arguments.

This is the biggest pile of pooop I have seen in a long time.
Many players enjoy playing the market on a MMO. Some log on, put things on the market. Buy high sell low, and log off for awhile. Ease of access increase the demand, and people who enjoy crafting/playing a market don't have to jump through hoops or tedious elements.

The fact they tried to use it as a feature is laughable at best.

Guildwars 2 has the best ah system ever. If ESO could just be half as good as gw2 systems. ESO would not be having the problems it does.

Korah_Eaglecry · November 2015

Alphashado wrote: »

If even half of the people asking for an auction house actually understood what they were asking for, I would give these threads a glimmer of credit.

The fact is that most (and it's not even close) of the people asking for an AH have never played a game with a global system (which ESO would have to be)

There are a few people popping up now and they talking about how they have played one of the two MMOs that use a global system and say they liked it. Okay, that's fine, but most have not.

Even if half the community wants an auction house, such a small % of those people asking for one actually understand what they are asking for, that it really depletes any amount of weight these threads carry. 99% of the people asking for an auction house are referencing games that do not use a global system, therefore the argument that 50% of the player base wants an auction house does not carry any weight in the eyes of the developers, because the devs are fully aware how detrimental this type of system would be to their game, and they have said this numerous times.

And lastly, being vicious and rude to people that actually prefer this system (either because they like it, or because they understand what a global system would bring) does not lend any weight to your arguments.

Could you have made an even larger post that amounted to saying nothing at all? And who exactly needs to prove anything to you? Are you a developer? A Community Manager?

What is it exactly that we are so naive about? You seem to infer that you have some hidden knowledge about something that is apparently obvious to you that we are all oblivious about. Yet not once do you even mention what this is. Do YOU even know what it is? Cause Im not so sure now.

And here we are with another statistical genius pulling numbers out of his magical....hat. By all means, lets see where youre getting your numbers. Dont worry though, I am aware that you cant, so I'll simply say that if youre right about your position you wouldnt need to turn to fake numbers and percentages to make a case and wave off the opposition.

Plenty of MMOs exist out there with global AHs. Here, I'll dispell the notion that only two exist (WoW and SWTOR) by providing a third that I have mentioned numerous times in numerous threads about this topic. Star Trek Online. If you cant even be bothered to provide an actual factual number for how many MMOs out there have AHs, and try to use it as apart of your argument for why it doesnt suit ESO. Then how much of the rest of your argument is flawed? Considering how much Ive torn apart so far Ima go ahead and say the entirety of it.

If the Devs were so AWARE of how beneficial/detrimental things are then by all means explain how they could implement the Champion Point System and allow it to get out of hand before finally realizing they needed a cap for it? I mean, theyre so insightful about things. How is it they seem to screw up so often?

And lastly, like you I will add some advice. Making numbers up, claiming to have some obvious but somehow hidden knowledge and not sharing it does not lend any weight to your argument. So next time, actually provide some proof if you want to throw around numbers and maybe actually be informed about the things that you want to use as apart of your argument.

Alphashado · November 2015

WoW and SWTOR are not global systems. Not even close. So in your weak attempt to make me look foolish, I assure you that quite the opposite has been achieved.

Google is your friend.

Korah_Eaglecry · November 2015

temjiu wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

So because youre okay with spending an Hour + moving from Trader to Trader the system is fine......

Ah yes the 'this is only a minority so any sort of valid points you make are invalid because youre so few' argument. Really? Please try harder. Or dont try at all. Just go back to your one line snarky comments.

Anything that doesnt line up with how you view things is a 'whine' thread. Even when people put forth legitimate concerns or criticisms. Yeah...This is really the direction you want to take your argument?

Oh and of course you finish it off with the classic made up percentage. If I hadnt seen you post before on these forums Id think you were trolling, and doing it poorly.

I don't spend an hour+moving from trader to trader. I usually do one of 2 things:

1) I start up MM, and it tracks sales records, and lets me know if a deal is decent or not.
2) I either go and buy at the markets that are in the main city (if i want a fast purchase), or I hunt a bit if I want a good deal.

I admit, the poster you replied to sounded brusque for sure. Just pointing out that you don't have to spend hours browsing markets. find a few that have generally good prices and stick with them. I sort of like how you can get rewarded for actually hunting down some markets out in the boondocks with cheap prices and profit.

In spite of the lack of "mini-game" in our present market system...there actually is a "meta-game" in it's place. And you actually have to put time in it, instead of standing in front of an auction house window refreshing prices for hours. I suppose if your one of those who like the mini-game of micromanaging prices in a global AH, you may not like this system. But I am not one of those people. There is nothing wrong with that point of view...It's like comparing a PvE player to a PvP player. both are valid playstyles, merely a matter of preference. I would personally prefer to see the current system get streamlined.

Good for you that you have a mod. Now by all means how the **** does that help people on Console? Oh what was that? It doesnt? And anyone on PC not running a mod is just **** out of luck?

When you need a mod to correct, not enhance (theres a difference here), an issue. Then that says it all. The system is broken.

Korah_Eaglecry · November 2015

Alphashado wrote: »

WoW and SWTOR are not global systems. Not even close. So in your weak attempt to make me look foolish, I assure you that quite the opposite has been achieved.

Google is your friend.

Are you trying to say that you cant sell to anyone else on the entire server, that you and they belong to, of WoW and SWTOR?

I didnt need to do anything to point out your foolishness. You did that all yourself by posting here about nonsense.

newtinmpls · November 2015

Eshelmen wrote: »

So, those who oppose the auction house style, you believe every player has the exact opportunity to sell as much as anyone else? Regardless of which guild trader and which location?

<snip>

PLEASE someone disagree with my OP if you are dead broke and aren't selling well or ever.
Exactly.

The only ones opposed to it, are sitting nicely.

I am broke most of the time. I play two accounts, casually (in that I don't grind, and only ... four of my sixteen characters are vet, none above vet four) oh, and I've been playing since a couple months after PC release.

I deconstruct most everything. I have yet to succeed in finishing a vet undaunted, I don't have a single fragment of glass motif. My riding lessons are NOT all maxed - I have speed up to 50-something on a couple, most are in their teens. I average about 20k in both bank accounts total before I see something I want, like more bank space or bag space. Most of my characters have 70-100, my two banks are at about 120.

I don't sell much... sometimes I truck over to the seducer or night's silence places and make a bunch of bits of various levels to sell. I also sell food supplies when they go much over 200. Not a ton of money in that.

If I want to buy something spendy, I usually can't.

Oh well.

newtinmpls · November 2015

Appleblade wrote: »

Can I at least have some sort of saved searches? I go from trade to trader looking for one thing and I have to tediously select from the menus at every trader. Let me search, and then save that search. I go to the next trader and the list of current saved searches appears.

Oh... on PC there are a number of addons for that. Yes, it would be nice if everyone got it

Mekkalyn · November 2015

The biggest question I have is why I need a mod to add a simple search feature?

Why the heck isn't there a search button when you open a guild trade window so you can easily see if it has what you need rather than searching through hundreds of pages?!

I am amazed that guild traders haven't been outraged by this and demanded a change.

What MMO has ever said "You can't search for the item you need, you need to go through a lot of pages to maybe find it"?

The only good thing is that there's add-on's that actually make a text search... like the base game should have had.

If you want to split up the market, fine. But at least let people search the market they are in.

Powtreeman · November 2015

Myyth wrote: »

"I'm going to reference World of Warcraft ONLY to compare their buying/selling system to ESO.

Whoever knows about World of Warcraft, knows the Auction House system is indeed genius. It works and it works very well."

Actually it doenst work well.
What always happens is that one player always buys every cheap item on the local server auction house, then reposts them all at outrageous high prices. As a result you have a couple auction troll players that monopolize and control the market. Examples are low level greens that sell for hundreds of gold because one player buys them all. And they use add ons to do all the work for them so they control the entire servers AH prices.

I am very glad we dont have that problem here in ESO and it really is an open fair market.

People do that in ESO....

mb10 · November 2015

Was thinking this exactly today as I ran around 20 guild traders checking one by one...

Alphashado · November 2015

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

WoW and SWTOR are not global systems. Not even close. So in your weak attempt to make me look foolish, I assure you that quite the opposite has been achieved.

Google is your friend.

Are you trying to say that you cant sell to anyone else on the entire server, that you and they belong to, of WoW and SWTOR?

I didnt need to do anything to point out your foolishness. You did that all yourself by posting here about nonsense.

Not sure why I am even bothering to respond. This isn't for your benefit, but rather the benefit of other people that are genuinely curious rather than sarcastically hostile:

Wow and swtor and most other MMOs are broken up into several individual servers. Wow has (or used to have) close to 100 servers. Each server only had a few thousand accounts. The most populated server only had around 15k accounts if memory serves me. The auction houses in WOW are isolated to their perspective servers only. So that means that even the most populated servers only had 15k people using them.

Now, games like GW2 and ESO are on a mega server. This means that an auction house would have to be used by everyone on each mega server, meaning that you could potentially have over a million people using the same auction house.

Links and data and facts on this subject have been posted in these threads many times in the past. I'm sure you will just find another reason to be rude and hostile anyways, but perhaps this explanation helps open minded people understand the situation.