This needs to be adressed. Now.

thelordoffelines · October 2015

CrowsDescend wrote: »

Don't worry, there's a load of players who use WB 24/7 because they don't know how else to play, and then they go around saying "L2P" to others, so they won't agree with your points or see how broken WB is, Lord-Otto.

What else should a stam dk or stam sorc use? Do tell because in sure the many stam dks and stam sorcs would love to know. (You could say rapid strikes but generally wb>rapid strikes)

Hope499 · October 2015

Honestly....there are so much worse things to worry about in PvP right now...this is so far down the list. WB is like an issue maybe once a night....

Asmael · October 2015

CrowsDescend wrote: »

Don't worry, there's a load of players who use WB 24/7 because they don't know how else to play, and then they go around saying "L2P" to others, so they won't agree with your points or see how broken WB is, Lord-Otto.

What else should a stam dk or stam sorc use? Do tell because in sure the many stam dks and stam sorcs would love to know. (You could say rapid strikes but generally wb>rapid strikes)

DW / SnB. You know, there's that guy here that's been rocking hard with it. Props to him.

EDIT: The fack happened with the quotes...

CyrusArya · October 2015

Looking at those death recaps, it is abundantly clear that the problem is on the receiving end. If you actually let someone hit you with 5 wrecking blows in a row, its not WB thats the problem, and you deserve to die. Wrecking Blow is the ONE stamina skill available to all classes that does significant burst damage. Its ok for one skill in an entire style of play to be powerful. What needs to be addressed is that the people whining on forums are people who would rather get universal nerfs than put in the effort to learn to play and counter skills. I hope ZOS is aware of this.

Another thing to bare in mind is PVE concerns. While scrub players might get butthurt over good skills in pvp, dungeon bosses are impartial. And some classes have no other options to do solid dps without Wrecking Blow. You nerf Wrecking Blow you significantly tarnish certain builds ability to compete in PvE. Always keep that in mind when you cry for nerfs. Theres a bigger picture than your inability to counter a single skill.

BaldusMageezack · October 2015

Every time i see a WB post I slot it and spam it for luls. It only kills ultra bads anyone else literally just walks a few steps back.

DaveMoeDee · October 2015

dday3six wrote: »

The only thing that needs to happen with Wreaking Blow is a fix to it not always triggering CC immunity. With a casting time it's damage is on par with the timeframe.

Be happy you are going against bads who don't weave in light attacks. Wreaking Blow does not Empower subsequent Wreaking Blows, so they are just leaving that 20% damage increase on the table. The damage difference is from crits or the other player buffing up.

Also only one example was a single player. The others were 2 and 3 players focusing on you. It wasn't WB that killed you then. It was being out numbered.

I suck at PvP and even I weave in light attacks while spamming.

I had to do something to make my DK feel playable again.

Conquers · October 2015

when i pvp, i kill noobs with WB, and get massacred if they actually know how to dodge.
when i use snipe, even great players get ripped apart because it does so much extra damage.
it is L2P, as a WB user, the effectiveness vastly differs when fighting different players

sometimes i go WB WB dead enemy
or i go WB WB WB WB WB WB....im dead
i once was owned by a nightblade when i spammed WB, i came back, used 3 snipes, and he died. not a scratch on me.
it is 100% L2P,
if someone has skill, it becomes a fair fight and i stop spamming WB only

Bhakura · October 2015

Strange how all you people get killed by 3-5 wbs ... if im fighting a wber im slapping myself silly for even getting hit once by it ... and i constantly get troll pms in cyrodill how noob i am

ah well /shrug

Molag_Crow · October 2015

thelordoffelines wrote: »

CrowsDescend wrote: »

Don't worry, there's a load of players who use WB 24/7 because they don't know how else to play, and then they go around saying "L2P" to others, so they won't agree with your points or see how broken WB is, Lord-Otto.

What else should a stam dk or stam sorc use? Do tell because in sure the many stam dks and stam sorcs would love to know. (You could say rapid strikes but generally wb>rapid strikes)

I know, you're right. That's why they should get offered more stamina morphs to their main class abilities but never mind, I've rolled back to shield & board now so that I can cope with WB spammers.

dwtdwtdwt · October 2015

Give Wrecking Blow a 2 second cast. Fixed.

Conquers · October 2015

dwtdwtdwt wrote: »

Give Wrecking Blow a 2 second cast. Fixed.

dps against bosses in pve - gone

dwtdwtdwt · October 2015

Conquers wrote: »

dps against bosses in pve - gone

dps would still be there. it just wouldn't be outrageous and over-the-top. i say 2, or 1.5 second cast. and allow it to be bashable. fixed.

Joy_Division · October 2015

LBxFinalDeath wrote: »

I always wondered.

How is WB any different than Crystal Frags?

Both can be spammed and do those levels of damage, crystal frags even moreso tbh.

Is WB OP simply because its a close range skill and thus "harder" to dodge?

Both have a wind-up/charge time..CF though having a chance to instacast.

Which is laughable, you can jog into their character model and it'll cancel the animation for WB. Lets be real here.

I used 2H for a time then switched to DW due to how common it is for the animation to simply be cancelled because the enemy moves slightly to the left and such.

If anything I'd say CF is more OP since they can run away and spam high damage skills that due to the lag in pvp will most likely hit you even when you're in mid-dodge roll.

Should at least in fairness sake make it so if you hit someone casting CF it stuns them akin to how people want WB to be nerfed.

It is much easier to defend yourself against crystal fragments.

Reflective scales
Eclipse
Defensive posture.
Harness magicka (is much more efficient than Bone shield)
Frag spammers like to be far away, gap closing into melee may dissuade them from casting it in the first place.
WB spammer like to be in melee, moving away from them just prompts a critical charge.
Frags can be interrupted

Preyfar · October 2015

Bhakura wrote: »

Strange how all you people get killed by 3-5 wbs ... if im fighting a wber im slapping myself silly for even getting hit once by it ... and i constantly get troll pms in cyrodill how noob i am

ah well /shrug

I find if you run *at* a person doing a WB and just run through them it tends to massively disorient a person using WB. Then turn around, slap 'em a few times, wait for the wind up, run forward again... most people can't track a person who instantly ends up behind them.

Not a tactic I generally recommend, but if you're in close enough quarters and see that wind up start...

Saint314Louis1985 · October 2015

the best way to beat wrecking blow is to keep your offense on them and cc the crap out of them.

I know this because I use WB and this is what destroys me. I love when people go into turtle defense mode because thats when i know I got them beat.

true story.

Muizer · October 2015

There are two aspects to WB that cause it not to be first on the list for a nerf
1) it's single target.
2) it's a melee ability.

Single target melee players are, and have always been, an endangered species in ESO. Until that's sorted, nerf something else first.

dday3six · October 2015

timidobserver wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

The only thing that needs to happen with Wreaking Blow is a fix to it not always triggering CC immunity. With a casting time it's damage is on par with the timeframe.

Be happy you are going against bads who don't weave in light attacks. Wreaking Blow does not Empower subsequent Wreaking Blows, so they are just leaving that 20% damage increase on the table. The damage difference is from crits or the other player buffing up.

Also only one example was a single player. The others were 2 and 3 players focusing on you. It wasn't WB that killed you then. It was being out numbered.

This is the way wrecking blow used to work. The new empower buff, from when they revamped/streamlined buffs, does empower the next attack using the same skill. You can see an example of it in the top most photo in the OP. The first one is 9757 and the second one is 11707. That is almost exactly a 20% increase.

Why in the 3rd imagine is there an example of to 2 consecutive Wrecking Blows with the same damage then?

Okay go test it or just continue on in your false belief, either way works for me. Empower applies to the skill that caused it now. That applies to dark flare and wrecking blow.

How would you suggest I test it on console? I can only go on what little I can actually do without visible damage numbers.

I have run from one enemy to another after hitting the first with Wrecking Blow and the damage looks the same. Truthfully how could I know for sure?

I don't have any friends in another alliance to meet up with and have them WB me to death several times to see the death cap in a more controlled environment. I have ran around in Cyrodiil until I found someone using Wrecking Blow and the damage was the same in consecutive attacks outside of crits.

So if WB is suppose to buff additional hits of the WB attack it seems to not be working on PS4. Which is not outside the realm of possibility.

ThisOnePosts · October 2015

For starters, you were being attacked by 2 people in one and 3 in another of your 3 photos. Did you expect to survive the encounters???????

The other one where the person used multiple abilities, apparently they beat you fair and square, not by spamming WB.

As someone who has several Magicka maxed out characters and only 1 stamina maxed out character, L2P.

As far as ballistas/how emperorship goes... sure there should be an option to lock your own.

Emperorship has been a running joke for quite a while but that's another topic imo.

Wrecking Blow is fine though. Shield-stacking has become even more popular however, I still don't partake in it as I find it to be borderline exploiting but it's kinda pathetic at this point. With that said, overall PVP is great in this game, stop with the nerfs and start adding more counters to everything.

Also yes make Emp more interesting, right now most of us know exactly how to obtain Emp... be on campaign restart, gain AP faster than the rest, and have some teams ready to take keeps as you lead the pack in AP. Sometimes it happens fast, sometimes a day or two later depending on how even the campaign is at the moment, but overall it's easy. They need a mode like King of the Hill. Want to be Emp? Beat the Emp. Just turning in missions, repairing, sieging, enemy player kills, etc.. is a silly way to go about it but if they had different campaigns with different methods, thatttt should definitely spice things up for Cyrodiil again.

UltimaJoe777 · October 2015

CrowsDescend wrote: »

Don't worry, there's a load of players who use WB 24/7 because they don't know how else to play, and then they go around saying "L2P" to others, so they won't agree with your points or see how broken WB is, Lord-Otto.

Yet I don't use it and agree it isn't so broken that it's unstoppable...

dodgehopper_ESO · October 2015

Sausage wrote: »

This game is actually more closer to standard MMORPG than I ever realized, I think it started with Crystal Fragment, people couldnt block, then it was Shooting Star (Mage guild DD) because people couldnt block, then Focused Aim, because people couldnt dodge, and now if last one is WB, after that Stun and Knockback. I think this is mistake, dodge/roll should be awesome, not joke of the game.

Part of the fun of this game was the block and dodge mechanics, which have been all but tossed in the trash with this last patch. Things just feel like you're moving in sludge now.

Violynne · October 2015

Lord-Otto wrote: »

L2P is a void argument with no meaning other than we exposed a certain overpoweredness and you people are afraid of losing your crutch.

Bingo.

timidobserver · October 2015

LBxFinalDeath wrote: »

I always wondered.

How is WB any different than Crystal Frags?

Both can be spammed and do those levels of damage, crystal frags even moreso tbh.

Is WB OP simply because its a close range skill and thus "harder" to dodge?

Both have a wind-up/charge time..CF though having a chance to instacast.

Which is laughable, you can jog into their character model and it'll cancel the animation for WB. Lets be real here.

I used 2H for a time then switched to DW due to how common it is for the animation to simply be cancelled because the enemy moves slightly to the left and such.

If anything I'd say CF is more OP since they can run away and spam high damage skills that due to the lag in pvp will most likely hit you even when you're in mid-dodge roll.

Should at least in fairness sake make it so if you hit someone casting CF it stuns them akin to how people want WB to be nerfed.

I personally do not want WB nerfed. I just want a physical damage reduction CP line and cc immunity to apply correctly. That said, here are the differences.

-Crystal frag gets no stealth bonus.
-Crystal frag applies cc immunity properly most of the time.
-I can reduce crystal frag damage by 25% using CPs.
-I can eat Crystal frags with a cheap cost harness magicka.
-I can reflect Crystal frag.
-I can interrupt hard casted Crystal frag.
-Crystal frag is only available to one class. Every stam build has access to WB.
-WB cc lasts longer

UltimaJoe777 · October 2015

Violynne wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

L2P is a void argument with no meaning other than we exposed a certain overpoweredness and you people are afraid of losing your crutch.

Bingo.

Mo' like L2P can swing both ways there.

Vangy · October 2015

Any stamina classes here that are whining about wb. Here's how I deal with those QQ wb spammers who think they can mash 1 button and win. I use SnB. So when I see him channeling I LA>ransack>block+bash. With AC my whole combo gets in before he is able to start wb spam. (Also ur block is up during bash). Guess who does more damage? Wb spammers can't block while channeling. Use that to your advantage.

On my magicka sorc its so easy i let out a giggle when I kill wb spammers. All they do is crit Rush crit Rush crit Rush then wb wb wb wb and pray u get into execute range for them to exec exec exec and maybe they cast the occasional vigor. I just streak through drop mines and giggle when they crit Rush into mine and slap them on DA FACE with crystal frag. Ker splat. Their so busy button mashing crit Rush and wb that they never bother to pay attention to what their opponent is doing.

Ez game ez life. Also please L2P. It helps. Very very much. Also most people who say L2P don't give a reason. I am giving 2 legitimate ways to counter Wb spam. Try them. Hell try something else from the huge skill set different classes have cos there are TONS of ways to wreck Wb spammers. Don't just assume L2P Sayers are trolling. We are not. Nothing but the cc immunity is broken with Wb. This is due to animation cancelling. You can Wb then hold heavy to remove the animation and start another Wb DURING the initial Wb cast duration. This plays out like this;

First Wb casted, before first Wb hits 2nd one is already channeling so when u are just about to get up (cc immunity hasn't kicked in) 2nd Wb hits you.

Gilvoth · October 2015

wheres Vvardenfell?
this issue of WB is a pain and yes it is OP, but getting class balances and skill balances and Vvardenfel and Dark breotherhood are alot more important imo.

Lord-Otto · October 2015

Some people don't understand the significance of picture 3...
You can try to dodge one person, but FIVE two-handers being aimed at you, some WILL hit you. And the advantages of WB are utterly devastating, then.
Also, so many people using WB says something. Same as many magicka DKs in the game's early stages and so many Nightblades/Sorcerers now. People don't play for playstyle or RPG purposes, forget that thinking. They use what is easiest and most powerful, so overpowered. You know that, everyone knows.

So, I am a magicka DK here... How am I supposed to take distance to WB? It has pretty much the same range as my main damage spell, Fire Whip. I MUST get in close, especially if I want to use Talons. And you know what? I have less defense, thanks to light armor. I have less dps, thanks to nirnhoned and CPs. And less mobility, thanks to small stamina bar. How again is this a justification for WB to two-shot people?
If you made it so that it dealt just as much damage as the Whip, you would have a slightly slower attack move with amazing CC. THAT would be balancing. You stamina builds would finally see what the game for us magicka DKs/Temps is like. And you would cry. I tell you that.

Messy1 · October 2015

I think WB is fine

Lord-Otto · October 2015

Why? Why is it fine?
As I read from the posts here, people tend to agree that WB is absurdly powerful. The two driving arguments are that it's easy to dodge and stam builds have no other damage skill. Dodging it is very unreliable, to say the least, and often impossible. And no other offensive move? Guess what! Neither do I have a solid attack move other than my whip. Why can't my whip deal double damage then? Because following that logic, I'm in the very boat that those "don't-nerf-WB-guys" are argueing against.
Tell me again how it is fine that a spammable skill outperforms a hard-counter ultimate like Dawnbreaker of Smiting?

FilthyMudcrabs · October 2015

Are we all just going to ignore OP's valid concerns regarding siege use?

Lord-Otto · October 2015

FilthyMudcrabs wrote: »

Are we all just going to ignore OP's valid concerns regarding siege use?

Oh, thank you so much!

WB seems to be a hot topic, guess why! (^_-) People probably didn't even read the second point! xD

Yeah, lockdown-function for sieges. Seriously. I can get me a new ballista, but I don't accept that BS like this can happen so easily.
And don't get me started on emperors... >=(