quickblade418 wrote: »This is my setup with Kagrenac and spell damage mundus stone.
and This is when entropy, Molag Kena and a instant Crystal fragment proc
Paulington wrote: »@Altyrann I was initially calculating for a Sorcerer. I should have said that somewhere but I forgot. The Expert Mage passive is a Sorcerer only passive. In this new calculations I have separated calculations for Templars and Sorcerers. I have included the Minor Sorcery buff from illuminate for the Templar calculations. On re-reading your comment, I realised that I misunderstood you initially. I should have added an extra 5% since a templar group member will give the Illuminate passive. I didn't include it in the screenshots below but if I added it in the calculation, the ability metric for Julianos is 123741 and for TBS 123963
@le.khang94ub17_ESO while I'm no magicka nightblade expert. TBS is probably still better even when taking into account the Pressure Point and Hemorrhage passive. Of course all calculations assume legendary v16 gear so you better get upgrading...
Thank you for the comments @Paulington and @EgoRush and the helpful discussion with @hedna123b14_ESO
I rechecked my calculations and performed it again with the setup suggested by @Paulington and my final conclusion is that TBS is still better. It seems that increasing spell damage favours Twice-born as seen in the calculations for sorcerers. With regards to templars, I previously thought that the Piercing Spear passive would favour Julianos since it would be increasing the effect of Elfborn. But in saying that I forgot that Piercing Spear also increases the effect of the Shadow mundus. Thus the difference between TBS and Julianos is larger for a templar (and in favour of TBS). This also means that skills that boost critical damage modifier such as Rearming Trap and Aggresive warhorn will favour TBS more.
As an aside, my calculations suggest that Nirnhoned is better for targets with a spell resistance greater than 10000. Since most bosses appear to have at least 16000 resistance (unless they are weak to a specific element) Nirnhoned should always be used even when Major Breach is used as this would lower the Spell Resistance to ~11000. All calculations below assume a CP distribution of 100 in Elemental Expert (for Sorc) or Thaumathurge (for Templars), 58 in Elfborn and 9 in Spell Erosion. This is always the optimum CP distribution for Templars even if the mob has a Spell Resistance of 32000 (it changes at an unrealistic Spell Resistance)
Here are the calculations for a sorcerer in support of my argument. The ability metric is based on a weighted sum of magicka and spell damage multiplied by the product of the critical damage chance and critical damage modifier. A higher ability metric score is preferred.
Julianos - Ability metric - 121327
TBS - Ability metric - 121657
And one for templars
Julianos - Ability metric - 119941
TBS - Ability metric 121162
And a link to a viewable spreadsheet
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vCAUoC-Fr_obOadUyFnGkt9V539PeKydKlaTtYe2szU/edit?usp=sharing
Hey @Asayre.
Thanks for all the data, made for really interesting reading. I have modified your spreadsheet and come to the opposite conclusion however.
From your spreadsheet on Juliano's Sorc, your "bonus" spell damage seemed low and just doing a bit of maths of my own I come up with a much higher number including the Kena proc.
Willpower: 751
Kena: 645 (Base 129 + 516 proc).
Julianos: 299
Maelstrom: 189
Total: 1,884.
I copied your spreadsheet and put this new number in and I get a performance metric of 129,351 which is around 6.5% higher than your TTBS performance metric. This is on the staff bar too. Currently the Dual-Wield bar with Torug's gives an extra 334 spell damage which would increase the metric even more.
To me this suggests that Juliano's is the better set here, but I am open to correction. We will find out in a few hours! . The spreadsheet I modified can be found here.
stonerskate109 wrote: »I'm running 2 torugs pact, 3 willpower, 5 kagrenacs as well as 2 valkyn skoria and I sit at 2840 spell damage as a templar. I'm definitely going with julianos when it comes out I'll sit at closer to 30 with valkyn skoria procs which will be super sweet
hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »I am very interested at how you have arrived at willpower jewelry granting 751 spell power if the set bonus is 186 and each spell damage enchant is 174, giving you 708 spell damage...
You keep running the thief on your Julianos set... Run the shadow on both then compare. You'll still be over 50% with the Julianos, so you need to have the right mundus made for all comparisons.
@Asayre Sorry for not explaining it better
Crit becomes more recognizeable over time. The more hits you do, the more likely it is to land a critical hit and the more your crit chance becomes impactfull.
So abilities that you can fire frequently benefit more from higher crit chance than slow bursty abilities.
@His Crayness , I don't think you can crit with burning light that said I'm not sure how to model the decreased Burning light damage for Twice-Born Star.
@d8rmir you're right in that I accidentally calculated an extra Torug set bonus in my second set of spreadsheets. This has been corrected in the third set of spreadsheets. I am in total agreement with @Paulington that the numbers for Sorcerers is way too close and in-game testing is required to determine actual stat values to obtain a better prediction.
@Yonkit, I am estimating 51.8% as the crit chance with Julianos (without the Thief Mundus)
10% (Base) + 10% (Prodigy) + 10% (Inner light) + 12% (Spell Precision) + 6.3% (Julianos) +3% (Exploitation)
I did forget to include the Exploitation bonus in my last estimate.
I would not use Shadow even so because from my previous calculations, I found that if
Crit multipler / Crit chance > 60/59 then the Thief should be used otherwise the Shadow is preferred.
The reasoning for this statement is taken from another threadC is the Crit chance
M is the Crit multiplier
T is the Thief Mundus (0.118 base)
S is the Shadow Mundus (0.12 base)
Note that the Crit multiplier here is 1.xx but I using a crit multiplier of 0.xx
Damage_Shadow = (1-C)*Base Damage + C*(M+S)*Base Damage
Damage_Thief = (1-C-T)*Base Damage + (C+T)*M*Base Damage
Damage_Thief – Damage_Shadow = Base Damage ( T*(M-1) – C*S )
Thief is better than Shadow when, T*(M-1) – C*S > 0
This is equivalent to fulfilling the equation below
(M-1) / C > 60/59
My crit multiplier with 58 points in Elfborn is 0.59 thus the Thief is preferred.
The Ability Metric with the Thief is 120416 (this is higher than the 118902 in my last spreadsheet because I included the Exploitation passive this time) but with the Shadow 119281.
Just a last (slightly off-topic) question @Asayre,
do I understand correctly that the reason you prefer DW over 2H for a sorcerer is that Heavy Weapons passive does not apply to Overload attacks?
Maybe you have actually already written it somewhere, and I missed it.
Just a last (slightly off-topic) question @Asayre,
do I understand correctly that the reason you prefer DW over 2H for a sorcerer is that Heavy Weapons passive does not apply to Overload attacks?
Maybe you have actually already written it somewhere, and I missed it.
Sorry, answering for Asayre here. Yes, that's correct. The Heavy Weapons and Twin Blade & Blunt passives are removed when you enter Overload as you're no longer wielding the weapon. So DW is preferred because you still have the increased spell damage due to the DW bar.
@EgoRush thanks for answering the question. It's much appreciated. Also thank you for alerting me to the change in how Twin Blade and Blunt is applied. From a quick test on the PTS, it appears that both passives Twin Blade and Blunt and Heavy Weapons are being applied in the same way, namely 5% increased tooltip damage.
@Ezareth, for the setup listed above divines is still preferred. I checked a few calculations for Critical Damage Multiplier on the PTS and it still seems to work in the same way as on Live, namely
Critical damage modifier = 1 + (Shadow Mundus*Divines + 0.5*(1+0.02*JP)) * (1+Other Passives)
Critical damage modifier is truncated at 2 decimal places.
JP are jump points in Elfborn. They occur when you have 1, 5, 11, 17, 24, 31, 40, 49, 58, 68, 78 and 89 points in Elfborn. To clarify, JP = 1 if you have 1 point in Elfborn and JP = 9 if you have 58 points in Elfborn.
@EgoRush thanks for answering the question. It's much appreciated. Also thank you for alerting me to the change in how Twin Blade and Blunt is applied. From a quick test on the PTS, it appears that both passives Twin Blade and Blunt and Heavy Weapons are being applied in the same way, namely 5% increased tooltip damage.