Last but not least nerf that will kill smallscale

Derra · October 2015

newtinmpls wrote: »

Jhunn wrote: »

Sigh. Why, ZOS?

I was discussing this with a friend, and he came up with a comment that showed a lot of insight.

Why are people in "a zerg" anyway? Generally it's a group of smaller players who are grouped together to stay alive. They are scared, and this "smaller group" would be composed of more highly skilled players.

That this change would benefit the "larger group" means that it is in defense of the less skilled players, and so it functions to further dismantle the "1vX" disparity between highly skilled (and sometimes highly CP'ed) players and groups of less skilled players.

So ZoS is working to assist the "average" player.

I guess that it does make sense to me when looked at from that perspective.

The problem with this approach is: Once you´ve casualized a game to the point where it´s trivial even for casuals to play it looses its appeal and won´t be played anymore.

PvP gets interesting by competition and outplaying or outsmarting your opponent. Once every opportunity to do so is gone the game dies.

Ofcourse this is a change to help the average joe. But once people like sypher, fengrush and the likes all abandon the game because everything they base their gameplay on gets removed or altered - who is the average joe going to look up to. Where does he get inspiration to get better? Where does he get his nemesis he will try to hunt down once he reads their name (not in the 24 slot grp and five different steeltornados in deathrecap i can assure you that much)?

AbraXuSeXile · October 2015

Well done ZOS. Clearly no idea about their game.

When we have small group and overrun an sneak rez is the only way to get our guys back up. Whereas the guys with most numbers dont need to sneak rez.

Its almost like they want everyone to run in massive groups all the time, which i wouldnt mind too much but the game doesnt support it.

babanovac · October 2015

Salmonleap wrote: »

I presume posters above me mean Camelot Unchained (http://camelotunchained.com) by "CU". Honestly, I hope that CU is the DAOC successor people are hoping it will be, but realistically, I think anyone pinning their hopes on CU should be prepared for disappointment even though Mark Jacobs and company are correctly focusing on "Tri-Realm" PvP before all else.

Really agree with this. I have zero trust in Marc Jacobs after all his failures.

McSwaggins · October 2015

How is this that much of a problem? Even when you stealth res, there's a giant beam going to the body. It's still pretty obvious that you're ressing someone...

babanovac · October 2015

McSwaggins wrote: »

How is this that much of a problem? Even when you stealth res, there's a giant beam going to the body. It's still pretty obvious that you're ressing someone...

It's not really a problem in itself. It just shows, again, that ZOS has no clue about their own game.

Tbh, ZOS should stop doing any more class and mechanic changes without them being approved by the community. It's clear that they know the game about the same amount as a noob who just started playing one month ago.

Soulac · October 2015

McSwaggins wrote: »

How is this that much of a problem? Even when you stealth res, there's a giant beam going to the body. It's still pretty obvious that you're ressing someone...

Immovable potion, cloak and let's go.
Batswarm and let's go.
It's easier for a small group to rely on such things to rez their fallen group members.
In my group I probably spend the highest amount of soul gems since it's easier to rez as a vampire nightblade.
Even if a raid is camping our corpses it's possible to get someone up by using cloak or batswarm.
There is no other way you could do that, except you're quite lucky. Zergs on the other side got enough people to sit behind every corner, ready to rez their fallen mates. If we try to defend it's nearly impossible to keep it clear.. Kill one side and the other is up again. A small group doesn't have enough people to camp their corpses.

Overall a nerf for small groups - well done.

Derra · October 2015

babanovac wrote: »

Salmonleap wrote: »

I presume posters above me mean Camelot Unchained (http://camelotunchained.com) by "CU". Honestly, I hope that CU is the DAOC successor people are hoping it will be, but realistically, I think anyone pinning their hopes on CU should be prepared for disappointment even though Mark Jacobs and company are correctly focusing on "Tri-Realm" PvP before all else.

Really agree with this. I have zero trust in Marc Jacobs after all his failures.

What failures are you speaking of exactly? The only thing i can think of as a failure would be warhammer online on which EA supposedly interfered with the development process when they bought mythic entertainment.

Still warhammer online pvp was much more enjoyable than esos imho.

Edit: One could argue new frontiers was a failure - god i hated those.

Etaniel · October 2015

Derra wrote: »

babanovac wrote: »

Salmonleap wrote: »

I presume posters above me mean Camelot Unchained (http://camelotunchained.com) by "CU". Honestly, I hope that CU is the DAOC successor people are hoping it will be, but realistically, I think anyone pinning their hopes on CU should be prepared for disappointment even though Mark Jacobs and company are correctly focusing on "Tri-Realm" PvP before all else.

Really agree with this. I have zero trust in Marc Jacobs after all his failures.

What failures are you speaking of exactly? The only thing i can think of as a failure would be warhammer online on which EA supposedly interfered with the development process when they bought mythic entertainment.

Still warhammer online pvp was much more enjoyable than esos imho.

Edit: One could argue new frontiers was a failure - god i hated those.

Classic Emain Macha ftw

TheBull · October 2015

aco5712 · October 2015

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

another mechanic change that is not needed and not wanted by anyone in the community...... cmon guys, think before you do, thank god this is only on the PTS where we still have time to revert it (unlike what you did to talons (i know its being reverted in 2.2 but still....))

Sanct16 · October 2015

Maybe their new strategy is to make a stupid change that every complains about, revert it 3 months later and pretend they listen to feedbacj while ignoring everything the community actually asked for.

Etaniel · October 2015

Sanct16 wrote: »

Maybe their new strategy is to make a stupid change that every complains about, revert it 3 months later and pretend they listen to feedbacj while ignoring everything the community actually asked for.

Sounds scarily accurate

AllPlayAndNoWork · October 2015

Erondil wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

FIXES & IMPROVEMENTS, BASE GAME PATCH

[
Combat & Gameplay
General

[*]You can no longer resurrect an ally while you are hidden or invisible.

RIP smallscale this was the last change needed to turn eso in a total zergfest.
cu on CU guys.

Have a look at Gloria Victis..... low magic (still in pre alpha) relies on skill alone.

AllPlayAndNoWork · October 2015

juan0316 wrote: »

Guys what is CU? I'm considering moving too with the changes made lately..

Camelot Unchained.

Ezareth · October 2015

Yonkit wrote: »

Can still be bashed even with CC immunity during a rez, it's no different than casting or channeling something. I don't think combat rezzing rewards failure.. I mean.. It'd be kind of stupid not to allow it and it'd just add more horse simulator time.

The entire concept of having to watch over the bodies of people you've killed so someone can't come and resurrect them is pretty ridiculous. I have no problem with people ressing after they've won an engagement but with battle ressing the way it exists today, something needs to change to penalize the failure of death period.

Groups these days that aren't even good often don't need to change their tactics to improve or get better, just outnumber their opponents enough that they can ress anyone you kill faster than you can kill them or interrupt their resses.

Nerfing stealth battle ressing is a good first step towards fixing this garbage.

Don't take me wrong here, I'm not butthurt over battle ressing or raging about it because I've been screwed by it so often. I benefit from it as much as anyone, I was stealth battle ressed in a zerg v zerg fight last night. My view is that personally I feel that I should have stayed dead, I made a mistake, miscalculated my position and was killed for it. Death was my reward. Instead I was ressed and a tri-pot later back at max health and stats as if nothing every happened.

Itoq wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

You can already tell when someone is rezzing someone when they are invisible (even if the beam isn't in the right place).

The issue of stealth-res-beam being in the wrong place is likely closely tied to the multiple 'insta' hits from a player from an invisible states(s.)

It would have been better if ZOS had put some real effort into fixing that issue rather than this easy to implement/low yield nerf.

That's actually a good point. It is possible they couldn't figure out a way to fix the beam across the area issue and simply nerfed stealth ressing to eliminate the possibility of the bug existing. Personally, I hope they did it for balance reasons.

Cody wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

emma666 wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

I don't understand how this nerfs small scale?

The zergs are the ones who spam ress. If you're relying on invis ressing as a "small scale" player, you're doing it wrong.

And i don't understand how it doesn't make it harder for small scale? Alot of healers use invisbats as a technique to get of a smart res without drawing attention to yourself if you are outnumbered which you usually are in a smaller group facing more numbers. It's not like a zerg has to invis res in their friendly zerg..? Also, this shouldn't be under ''fixes and improvements'' it should be under ''Unnessecary and unexplainable nerfs''

Invis bat ress. Great against terrible players.....terrible waste of ult against good players IMO.

I just don't understand how "Small Scale" PvP effectiveness somehow revolves around being dead.

I recall one time I wiped a group of 5 or 6 players in a keep...only to have a magicka NB escape. By staying invis he was able to ress 3 or 4 of his players before I could even get in range to "reveal" him. With this change he would have been able to get maybe 1 ress off before I could interrupt him.

Battle Ressing in this game is too strong. This is a great change to a cheesy mechanic that just made no sense.

Once again, if your whole strategy revolves around how best to resurrect your dead....you're doing it wrong.

"only against terrible players" I have seen groups of coordinated players get decimated by my teammates all because I played the game LIKE A TEAM GAME and rezzed my dead teammates.

"if your whole strategy revolves around how to best resurrect your dead, you're doing it wrong"

This game's PvP is supposed to be based on teamwork. Not everyone can be like you and just waste most of the people they fight. there is more to PvP than simply killing your enemies and sieging a keep. Its all about teamwork; coordinating with your teammates. Do you have any idea how many battles I have seen lost over my ESO lifetime because people refuse to rez their teammates? furthermore, do you have any idea how many battles one can snatch from defeat if even ONE of their teammates rezzed people? chessy tactic? chessy tactic my butt! Its called being a teamplayer!

"i recall I wiped 5-6 players in a keep and they rezzed behind me" You wiped 5-6 players by yourself? With no one elses help? Just you? Well good for you:D I wish I was that good. Most people won't even reach that level of skill and won't have to worry about someone rezzing one of the 6 players they solo killed. Heck the most I can kill by myself is 3, and that's only on occasion. If you can wipe 6 players, surely you can take on that one NB and watch the bodies:/ heck you are in a keep, just call for help, you must have some teammate nearby.

Its not difficult to root out a stealthed rezzer. you are really telling me you have not a single templar that can use shards, or no one with prox detonation, fear, impulse, detection potions, talons, heck, another NB even! I promise you there are NBs out there(heck stealthed based players in general) that are more than willing to watch for stealth rezzers. Some even find it enjoyable. Oh, that's right, the NB is the extremely OP class that we should all avoid because of the 2.5 second cloak, my mistake.

/sigh another nerf over something easily resolved. Why do I even bother complaining, the nerfs will come either way. Its fine, rezzing can still be done after the battle when it has no strategical significance or purpose(save maybe if its far from a friendly keep) but good luck with getting rezzes near enemy keeps now. Enjoy smaller groups/spec op groups being weakened yet again.

This was in 1.6 and killing 6 players by myself was a rarity even then. I'm not against battle ressing in general, and I ress every player I see whenever at all possible. I'm not against team play or team work but I think failure should have consequences, that is all. I'm admittedly far from the best team player in the game, it's just not one of my strengths. That's why I prefer small scale.

If they're going to keep battle ressing how it exists then there needs to be some form of lasting consequence for death. A Ress timer, "ress sickness", or anything else of that nature to make it so that if one "Team" wins an engagement they don't end up losing the entire battle because they didn't feel like camping corpses for 10 minutes waiting for a NB who may or may not be there to ress his teammates.

Ezareth · October 2015

Sanct16 wrote: »

@Ezareth

I agree that the current state of combat rezzing is beyond ridiculous. For us as a small group it is often impossible to take objectives nowadays because our opponent which outnumber us by often more than 3 to 1 rez faster than we can kill them / flip flags. Kill 10 people on the upper flag, turn it, push down to maingate flag, kill people there, flip the flag. Oh damn the people on the upper flag are all up again... and so on... until their 20 sieges eventually kill us.

However, this change won't do ANYTHING about that because when you have the numbers, you don't need invisibilty. For our 30 enemies its no problem to rez the dead people. However, if we lose one of our guys because he got stuck or w/e it is very hard to get him up again. I guess it depends on what you determine "smallscale" to be. Since the current state of the game is a zergfest for me smallscale is trying to play with a "small" group to fight outnumbered and for this type of gameplay, this change doesn't do anything good. I would LOVE to see a cooldown on being able to get rezd and rez another player. But giving the outnumbering group the advantage of easier rezzing is just ***.

I agree man, it's not going to fix the biggest issue, but to me it says they are looking at battle ressing. Apparently Kagrenacs doesn't stack with the Templar passive any more either (unless this was misreported, I didn't follow it) which also to me is a good thing.

Hell I think even adding another 3 or 4 seconds to the battle ress timer would fix the whole problem. No single player would be able to ress 20 people in 10 seconds then (Assuming everyone he ressed began ressing others as well).

Legedric · October 2015

Well, I as we won't get an answer in this forum section I asked the German CM about this in another thread and he is forwarding this question to Eric Wroble.

So as I assumed, it's the combat team that is responsible for this change, not the PvP team (if it still exists, tough) so they may have just forgotten about PvP once more.

Looking forward to Wroble's answer on this one...

Wollust · October 2015

Legedric wrote: »

Well, I as we won't get an answer in this forum section I asked the German CM about this in another thread and he is forwarding this question to Eric Wroble.

So as I assumed, it's the combat team that is responsible for this change, not the PvP team (if it still exists, tough) so they may have just forgotten about PvP once more.

Looking forward to Wroble's answer on this one...

Those german guys are just way more competent. I wish everything here was done with the german efficiency *sigh*

contact.opiumb16_ESO · October 2015

Minnesinger wrote: »

We players are a part of problem. I don´t think they would do all these changes if there wasn´t a ton of QQ. Justfied or not. In this case we won´t know how it is supposed to be improving playing Cyrodiil. Doesn´t make any sense.

Have you ever read any QQ of stealth rez ?

Garion · October 2015

Legedric wrote: »

Well, I as we won't get an answer in this forum section I asked the German CM about this in another thread and he is forwarding this question to Eric Wroble.

So as I assumed, it's the combat team that is responsible for this change, not the PvP team (if it still exists, tough) so they may have just forgotten about PvP once more.

Looking forward to Wroble's answer on this one...

You won't see an answer from Wrobel - he doesn't even have a forum account!

Cody · October 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

Yonkit wrote: »

Can still be bashed even with CC immunity during a rez, it's no different than casting or channeling something. I don't think combat rezzing rewards failure.. I mean.. It'd be kind of stupid not to allow it and it'd just add more horse simulator time.

The entire concept of having to watch over the bodies of people you've killed so someone can't come and resurrect them is pretty ridiculous. I have no problem with people ressing after they've won an engagement but with battle ressing the way it exists today, something needs to change to penalize the failure of death period.

Groups these days that aren't even good often don't need to change their tactics to improve or get better, just outnumber their opponents enough that they can ress anyone you kill faster than you can kill them or interrupt their resses.

Nerfing stealth battle ressing is a good first step towards fixing this garbage.

Don't take me wrong here, I'm not butthurt over battle ressing or raging about it because I've been screwed by it so often. I benefit from it as much as anyone, I was stealth battle ressed in a zerg v zerg fight last night. My view is that personally I feel that I should have stayed dead, I made a mistake, miscalculated my position and was killed for it. Death was my reward. Instead I was ressed and a tri-pot later back at max health and stats as if nothing every happened.

Itoq wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

You can already tell when someone is rezzing someone when they are invisible (even if the beam isn't in the right place).

The issue of stealth-res-beam being in the wrong place is likely closely tied to the multiple 'insta' hits from a player from an invisible states(s.)

It would have been better if ZOS had put some real effort into fixing that issue rather than this easy to implement/low yield nerf.

That's actually a good point. It is possible they couldn't figure out a way to fix the beam across the area issue and simply nerfed stealth ressing to eliminate the possibility of the bug existing. Personally, I hope they did it for balance reasons.

Cody wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

emma666 wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

I don't understand how this nerfs small scale?

The zergs are the ones who spam ress. If you're relying on invis ressing as a "small scale" player, you're doing it wrong.

And i don't understand how it doesn't make it harder for small scale? Alot of healers use invisbats as a technique to get of a smart res without drawing attention to yourself if you are outnumbered which you usually are in a smaller group facing more numbers. It's not like a zerg has to invis res in their friendly zerg..? Also, this shouldn't be under ''fixes and improvements'' it should be under ''Unnessecary and unexplainable nerfs''

Invis bat ress. Great against terrible players.....terrible waste of ult against good players IMO.

I just don't understand how "Small Scale" PvP effectiveness somehow revolves around being dead.

I recall one time I wiped a group of 5 or 6 players in a keep...only to have a magicka NB escape. By staying invis he was able to ress 3 or 4 of his players before I could even get in range to "reveal" him. With this change he would have been able to get maybe 1 ress off before I could interrupt him.

Battle Ressing in this game is too strong. This is a great change to a cheesy mechanic that just made no sense.

Once again, if your whole strategy revolves around how best to resurrect your dead....you're doing it wrong.

"only against terrible players" I have seen groups of coordinated players get decimated by my teammates all because I played the game LIKE A TEAM GAME and rezzed my dead teammates.

"if your whole strategy revolves around how to best resurrect your dead, you're doing it wrong"

This game's PvP is supposed to be based on teamwork. Not everyone can be like you and just waste most of the people they fight. there is more to PvP than simply killing your enemies and sieging a keep. Its all about teamwork; coordinating with your teammates. Do you have any idea how many battles I have seen lost over my ESO lifetime because people refuse to rez their teammates? furthermore, do you have any idea how many battles one can snatch from defeat if even ONE of their teammates rezzed people? chessy tactic? chessy tactic my butt! Its called being a teamplayer!

"i recall I wiped 5-6 players in a keep and they rezzed behind me" You wiped 5-6 players by yourself? With no one elses help? Just you? Well good for you:D I wish I was that good. Most people won't even reach that level of skill and won't have to worry about someone rezzing one of the 6 players they solo killed. Heck the most I can kill by myself is 3, and that's only on occasion. If you can wipe 6 players, surely you can take on that one NB and watch the bodies:/ heck you are in a keep, just call for help, you must have some teammate nearby.

Its not difficult to root out a stealthed rezzer. you are really telling me you have not a single templar that can use shards, or no one with prox detonation, fear, impulse, detection potions, talons, heck, another NB even! I promise you there are NBs out there(heck stealthed based players in general) that are more than willing to watch for stealth rezzers. Some even find it enjoyable. Oh, that's right, the NB is the extremely OP class that we should all avoid because of the 2.5 second cloak, my mistake.

/sigh another nerf over something easily resolved. Why do I even bother complaining, the nerfs will come either way. Its fine, rezzing can still be done after the battle when it has no strategical significance or purpose(save maybe if its far from a friendly keep) but good luck with getting rezzes near enemy keeps now. Enjoy smaller groups/spec op groups being weakened yet again.

This was in 1.6 and killing 6 players by myself was a rarity even then. I'm not against battle ressing in general, and I ress every player I see whenever at all possible. I'm not against team play or team work but I think failure should have consequences, that is all. I'm admittedly far from the best team player in the game, it's just not one of my strengths. That's why I prefer small scale.

If they're going to keep battle ressing how it exists then there needs to be some form of lasting consequence for death. A Ress timer, "ress sickness", or anything else of that nature to make it so that if one "Team" wins an engagement they don't end up losing the entire battle because they didn't feel like camping corpses for 10 minutes waiting for a NB who may or may not be there to ress his teammates.

then do the res sickness thing, don't unintentionally penalize small groups over the issue. ZOS may not have intended to hurt small groups by doing this, but it will if it goes thru. The best way, in my opinion, would be a "timer" where if one is not rezzed in X amount of time they will be auto-spawned to the nearest spawnable location. Tack on rez sickness with it and boom, you have a consequence for dying, and can leave an important mechanic alone.

and how the heck did you manage to wipe 5-6 people by yourself??? even with the broken resource management of 1.6 that still sounds almost impossible!

Derra · October 2015

Garion wrote: »

Legedric wrote: »

Well, I as we won't get an answer in this forum section I asked the German CM about this in another thread and he is forwarding this question to Eric Wroble.

So as I assumed, it's the combat team that is responsible for this change, not the PvP team (if it still exists, tough) so they may have just forgotten about PvP once more.

Looking forward to Wroble's answer on this one...

You won't see an answer from Wrobel - he doesn't even have a forum account!

You made a nice comment about that guy once. If i only could remember what that was...

Raizin · October 2015

Erondil wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

FIXES & IMPROVEMENTS, BASE GAME PATCH

[
Combat & Gameplay
General

[*]You can no longer resurrect an ally while you are hidden or invisible.

RIP smallscale this was the last change needed to turn eso in a total zergfest.
cu on CU guys.

CU it is indeed, who wants beta invite!?

juan0316 wrote: »

Guys what is CU? I'm considering moving too with the changes made lately..

go google and type:

Camelot Unchained

Ezareth wrote: »

I don't understand how this nerfs small scale?

The zergs are the ones who spam ress. If you're relying on invis ressing as a "small scale" player, you're doing it wrong.

Ehm, excuse me, but u r doing something wrong, or u r just (p)wussy.. u must go bats, or invis pot and ress ppl while inside zerg!

thats what true man do!.... I mean did, cause it wont be possible anymore

@RIPresswhilebats.

Derra wrote: »

Garion wrote: »

Legedric wrote: »

Well, I as we won't get an answer in this forum section I asked the German CM about this in another thread and he is forwarding this question to Eric Wroble.

So as I assumed, it's the combat team that is responsible for this change, not the PvP team (if it still exists, tough) so they may have just forgotten about PvP once more.

Looking forward to Wroble's answer on this one...

You won't see an answer from Wrobel - he doesn't even have a forum account!

You made a nice comment about that guy once. If i only could remember what that was...

I do, and he got nice ban for it

, still funny

:D

Ezareth · October 2015

Cody wrote: »

ZOS may not have intended to hurt small groups by doing this, but it will if it goes thru.

and how the heck did you manage to wipe 5-6 people by yourself??? even with the broken resource management of 1.6 that still sounds almost impossible!

I can see the point you guys are saying about small scale being hurt by this and agree with it. Personally I rarely benefit from invis ressing in small scale combat but I can see how many groups rely on it and agree that it hurts us more than the zergs who dont need to use invis to ress.

Wiping 5-6 people solo in 1.6 as a Sorc is really not much of a feat and it was one of the reasons I got bored with how OP sorc felt at the time. Don't forget 1.6 was release of TU and it flooded the game with a host of bad PvPers that created the easiest 1vX ever seen in this game. There was one day that I literally wiped an entire raid of 25-30 people solo on my sorc with a full bar of overload. My hard drive was full unknown to me at the time so I never got the video but the players were so bad I would have felt guilty for including it. I don't know if you recall watching Sypher play on his Initial console release video as he killed insane groups of people but it felt like that. I just felt dirty afterwards.

Legedric · October 2015

Garion wrote: »

Legedric wrote: »

Well, I as we won't get an answer in this forum section I asked the German CM about this in another thread and he is forwarding this question to Eric Wroble.

So as I assumed, it's the combat team that is responsible for this change, not the PvP team (if it still exists, tough) so they may have just forgotten about PvP once more.

Looking forward to Wroble's answer on this one...

You won't see an answer from Wrobel - he doesn't even have a forum account!

I know but the German CM may get an answer and forward it to us.

Cody · October 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

ZOS may not have intended to hurt small groups by doing this, but it will if it goes thru.

and how the heck did you manage to wipe 5-6 people by yourself??? even with the broken resource management of 1.6 that still sounds almost impossible!

I can see the point you guys are saying about small scale being hurt by this and agree with it. Personally I rarely benefit from invis ressing in small scale combat but I can see how many groups rely on it and agree that it hurts us more than the zergs who dont need to use invis to ress.

Wiping 5-6 people solo in 1.6 as a Sorc is really not much of a feat and it was one of the reasons I got bored with how OP sorc felt at the time. Don't forget 1.6 was release of TU and it flooded the game with a host of bad PvPers that created the easiest 1vX ever seen in this game. There was one day that I literally wiped an entire raid of 25-30 people solo on my sorc with a full bar of overload. My hard drive was full unknown to me at the time so I never got the video but the players were so bad I would have felt guilty for including it. I don't know if you recall watching Sypher play on his Initial console release video as he killed insane groups of people but it felt like that. I just felt dirty afterwards.

I can't even take on people half my rank now, its been so long, lol. yet here you are going thru 2-3 people at a time on a daily basis. I envy you. Maybe I can achieve such greatness one day....

Talcyndl · October 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

I just don't understand how "Small Scale" PvP effectiveness somehow revolves around being dead.

It's not so much small scale groups that will be effected. It will be the small gank groups that harass transit lines. They rely on one player stealthing away when they get rolled by a large group. That stealther comes back and rezzes so the group can continue ganking without having to run back.

Sureshawt · October 2015

LOL....they fix an exploit/bug and the forum erupts into conspiracy about promoting zerg play. Comical....

ToRelax · October 2015

Talcyndl wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

I just don't understand how "Small Scale" PvP effectiveness somehow revolves around being dead.

It's not so much small scale groups that will be effected. It will be the small gank groups that harass transit lines. They rely on one player stealthing away when they get rolled by a large group. That stealther comes back and rezzes so the group can continue ganking without having to run back.

Since for some reason most small scale players seem to be playing Sorc or NB right now, we rarely get totally wiped in one go, rather split up with a few players dieing in the process. And there's no chance to resurrect those if the enemies are camping every corpse, unless you can invisi-rez.

Erondil · October 2015

@Ezareth

Ezareth wrote: »

The entire concept of having to watch over the bodies of people you've killed so someone can't come and resurrect them is pretty ridiculous. I have no problem with people ressing after they've won an engagement but with battle ressing the way it exists today, something needs to change to penalize the failure of death period.

I play in a small/medium sized group always trying to play aways from his own faction and 90% of the time outnumbered, and in such group, one death is already very penalizing. When you're chased by a zerg 20-30 as a group of 4, 8 or even 12, it's very unlikely everybody will stay alive because not everyone is a sorc with maxed regen to BoL into oblivion as you are, there are Dks and templars. Even as NB/sorc it's not that easy to escape those big zergs. 1.6 made it so it's impossible for us to stay in the face of an ennemy group when we're greatly outnumbered so we have to kite zergs to have a chance to kill them. There will almost always be one dead or more because of the nerf to every escape mechanics.
In a group of 8 imagine 1 DK died while running (mistform is useless and rapid manoeuver wont save him), at least one nb has to go to get him up (because you cant really deal with 1 less player when you attack the zerg, and because it would be boring for the dk to always die and actually never fight) , so already 1/4 of the group is away for a while. Knowing that there are always 1-2, sometimes even 10 players camping corpses, a sneak rezz is required (well the nb could try to kill those guys, but it will take sometimes and might alert the zerg 30 meters away). And the death of this DK has little to do with his skill level (or I don't know any good DK), sometimes you will get stuck in the back whatever you do, not even counting bugs on breakfrees, manoeuver not working etc. Isn't that a huge penality for one death already?
Also if we wipe and one guy gets out, the ennemy zerg will camp all our corpses for a very long time, so once again the guy has to be smart on his moves/who he ress the first/how he ress to be able to get our group up again. Yes, the group failed (well if dying vs 30 ppl when you are 8 can be counted as a fail) but should really everybody ride back to the spot, which is very far away because we try to play far from our own zerg? After a few rides the group will just logg off, and after a few nights, the group will just /quit because he didn't pay to play horse simulator everytimes he got overswarmed.

Ezareth wrote: »

Groups these days that aren't even good often don't need to change their tactics to improve or get better, just outnumber their opponents enough that they can ress anyone you kill faster than you can kill them or interrupt their resses.

Yes, you got it right, and I also find it awful when a raid overswarming us just wait for us to push another blob to ress all their group but it has nothing to do with stealth ress. They don't need invis to ress, we just can't let 2-3 people (1/4 of the group) behind to interupt those resser so they ress in peace and after they spent 40 gems, we die because overswrmed with no ressource nor ultimates left. Thats why ZOS needs to implement a Cooldown : when you get ressed once and die again, cant be ressed for 3-5 mins or whatever, and IMO kagrenac should not stack with others speed ress passives because it makes the interrupt time window too short (I don't use kagrenac if you wanna know). Remove invis ress won't hurt those big groups, but achieve to destroy the last few smallscale groups still around.